The Linux Thread - The Autist's OS of Choice

[Akerman]

I thought this was the case until last week. I don't think a beginner friendly Linux distro exists at all. Mint comes the closest, but still needs setting up in case DNS resolution isn't hijacked by NetworkManager. The FHS is completely foreign, and the default firewall is ufw.

The first thing I learned back in the day on Linux Mint which was my first distro was blacklisting GPU drivers on my Notebook in GRUB in order to force it to use amdgpu which is apparently an issue on older integrated Radeon GPUs defaulting to an old graphics driver instead of it. So yeah, not really beginner friendly if you run into issues but I have heard anecdotally from some people that Linux Mint tend to minimize a number of issues that happen on other distros, couldn't say if that is true though because I personally distrohopped away pretty quickly.

 

[Noyciciw]

Even the archinstall script is completely alien to the average user. Disc formatting? Partitioning? UTC by default? Root user? Sudoer? Packages? DE? WM? Network management? LUKS? Drivers?

It's insane to throw anyone a text based pseudo-script that despite its convenience looks nothing like any traditional GUI OS install process without explaining what any of the poor user is actually choosing out of the myriad of options.

My first Linux distro was Manjaro. I had only used Windows 7 and 10 before that, and only knew how to use gui programs. I have a cousin who's an experienced Arch user, and directed me to resources on how to install Manjaro. I was able to figure out all the graphical stuff relatively easily, and after a few years of living in Manjaro and evenutally learning how to use the terminal, I eventually installed EndeavourOS, cause I wasn't smart enough to figure out how to install Arch, but I was getting too knowledgeable curious to comfortably live in the preconfigured environment that was Manjaro; so I've been using EndeavourOS ever since. I went the whole nine yards, and setup a standalone WM even, but now I've reverted back to Xfce4, cause it's just such a comfy DE.

 

[Nothing Is Written]

The first thing I learned back in the day on Linux Mint which was my first distro was blacklisting GPU drivers on my Notebook in GRUB in order to force it to use amdgpu which is apparently an issue on older integrated Radeon GPUs defaulting to an old graphics driver instead of it. So yeah, not really beginner friendly if you run into issues but I have heard anecdotally from some people that Linux Mint tend to minimize a number of issues that happen on other distros, couldn't say if that is true though because I personally distrohopped away pretty quickly.

Don't get me wrong: it's THE most beginner friendly Linux distro by far, but it's still GNU/Linux. Whatever culture shock a Mac user experiences porting over to Windows and vice-versa is nothing compared to porting over to Linux.

These are two household names users are familiar and comfortable with.

Linux isn't just an OS and people forget that. It's a commitment to being an active super user on your own system, and a majority of users just don't want that responsibility.

Just look at this shit:



Beginner friendly in Linux land is "advanced user" in Windows/MacOS land.

 

[Nothing Is Written]

DNS resolution just works in my experience, and inexperienced users don't understand folders as it is so you'd be teaching them anyways if you just downgraded them to windows 11. And Linux Mint by default doesn't really have any processes listening for access attempts anyways, unless you're turning on passwordless ssh or some other nonsense.

If your network uses dynamic IP ranges or DNS-based rules, UFW doesn't auto-update entries unless scripted from my experience. Chuck a VPN into the mix and it's doubly janky.

 

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you'll end up with hundreds of dot files, configs for things you've tried once and forgotten

something that affects the average user not at all

and in the end the ecosystem is hostile.

not like Windows with AppData folders full of shit, right?

 

[prollyanotherlurker]

I could throw away literally everything else in an OS as long as I can a) do file management competently and fast and b) run any rando application I have saved on my hard drive in perpetuity. I have a directory of exes which I expect to just work forever, and as far as I'm concerned that's the job of an OS to just get out of the way and let me run my thingies.

As a sample, as seen from my mac:
View attachment 7388466

"Oh but how often do you really need to run UMDGen.exe" well it's the only real tool that exists for manipulating files inside a PSP game iso, do I really care how often I run that? If I want to do that, I need to use UMDGen or bust so I want it to continue working forever. It's never going to get updated again. I'd expect it to probably maybe work in Wine or Proton or whatever but many of these tools talk to external devices via USB or in at least one case legacy serial COM ports, those generally break really hard in Wine.

Open source tools don't even really fill in this void as often just getting a build to run on any given repo can be a ton of work, especially if they have external dependencies pulled down via pip or cargo or whatever where you're praying APIs haven't changed or been deprecated.

Ah. So literally both of the arguments before. We're really just one, it's just playing new games, and you want to play old games. Sounds like sticking with windows is the better option for you. Since the only thing you care about is playing whatever games you have.

That's probably the reason people that aren't gamers will never care about backwards compatibility. I really have a hard time thinking of anything else where wanting an ancient binary to work is a more practical option than using something else. And the edges cases where it would make sense. I would think the operating system the program would be used in would be one where it is going to work anyway. Like so custom program for a company on some old computer system, that hasn't been updated since 2000 or something.

And the file manager thing. I actually think this is the first time I've seen anyone complain about not being able to use a file manager on Linux. I know I've never had any problems with file managers, that's for sure. They just do their job. And there like 10 or more commonly used file managers to pick from. I feel like most people just find one of those they like, and use it and never think about it again.


You know. I swear. Before that 4chan shit happened. This thread used to be about Linux nerd shit. Now it's just talking about windows and other shit. This is literally the only place I go where people are bringing up windows constantly. If people like windows more. Use that shit. No one here will stop you. And I know I don't give a fuck how much more you like windows. I'm definitely not going to go around evangelizing Linux because it just ends up with this shit.

If people want to use Linux, need help. I am always willing to help people with issues, or to understand things they don't. But that's not what I see here (well, there are some people asking for help but those aren't the ones I'm talking about)

 

[Baraka Obama]

I really have a hard time thinking of anything else where wanting an ancient binary to work is a more practical option than using something else.

Off the top of my head:

1. CNC machines
2. Line-of-business software
3. Anything that needs to deal with legacy file formats (you'll note what I screenshotted is almost entirely that from a vidyagames standpoint)
4. Preferring an older UI that changed at some point
5. You already paid for something and the newer stuff requires a subscription

And the file manager thing. I actually think this is the first time I've seen anyone complain about not being able to use a file manager on Linux. I know I've never had any problems with file managers, that's for sure. They just do their job. And there like 10 or more commonly used file managers to pick from. I feel like most people just find one of those they like, and use it and never think about it again.

It's kind of a tangent but all Linux file managers are pretty annoying especially when you get into external drives (which require mount points) or network resources, plus they often have really bizarre UI paradigms layered in that some retard thought was cool like anytime you type a letter it starts searching, when in Windows & MacOS & even ChromeOS it just jumps the selected item to the file that starts with that letter. Mostly I do linux file operations from CLI though.

FWIW the comment was actually targeted at how retarded Windows 11's file explorer is.

 

[DavidS877]

I'm pretty sure my first Linux was MCC or maybe H J Lu. But I think the first one I actually used for real was SLS.

My lawn, something something.

 

[prollyanotherlurker]

Off the top of my head:

1. CNC machines
2. Line-of-business software
3. Anything that needs to deal with legacy file formats (you'll note what I screenshotted is almost entirely that from a vidyagames standpoint)
4. Preferring an older UI that changed at some point
5. You already paid for something and the newer stuff requires a subscription

That is exactly what I was talking about about when I said what I said right after it.

Things like that are generally probably going to be running on something just for doing those tasks. Since thats general all the computers that need those are going to be used for.

Well except 4 and 5. With 4. I feel like most people are just going to get over it. Or rice whatever else replaces it, to be like the old version of whatever they are using. But I've never been someone that is that upset about change.

And 5 maybe with adobe or something. But the people that give that money get what they deserve. Imo. Literally if people keep giving them money, they are going to keep doing the same thing.

It's kind of a tangent but all Linux file managers are pretty annoying especially when you get into external drives (which require mount points) or network resources, plus they often have really bizarre UI paradigms layered in that some retard thought was cool like anytime you type a letter it starts searching, when in Windows & MacOS & even ChromeOS it just jumps the selected item to the file that starts with that letter.

The only reason I kept GUI file managers around for as long as I did before moving to managing files in the terminal, was because. To me at least the GUI file managers I used made handling mount points easy and I didn't have to think about it. I just had to click the device. Or I could even have it auto mount if I wanted.

The searching is really going to depend which file manager you are talking. About. Like I said there are a lot of them on Linux.

 

[Akerman]

Don't get me wrong: it's THE most beginner friendly Linux distro by far, but it's still GNU/Linux. Whatever culture shock a Mac user experiences porting over to Windows and vice-versa is nothing compared to porting over to Linux.

Yeah, to some it probably seems like masochism but I actually like using Linux and that's why I use it personally. When I had to use Windows full time again due to school after a long stint of only using Linux I was miserable, despite how everything worked just fine for the most part.

I agree that people need to stop lying about Linux in ways that make casual users try it as a shoe-in replacement for Windows because whenever they do they end up with the strangest issues because they have no idea what the fuck they are doing nor any desire to learn how to do things differently. You can't really judge them for this when they were told that they didn't have to learn anything. I have never truly "switched" myself, I still got a separate SSD that I dual boot into with Windows 11. I tend to use whatever I feel like using that day, sometimes I like checking out what the pajeets did to Windows recently for a laugh or if I need to run some Linux hostile stuff. But most people don't want to do any of this shit, they just want to get a computor from the store and then go outside after they are done using it. No distro fits this casual usecase I think, and honestly they would probably do better with a Macbook than Windows or Linux. These types of users really just prefer to use their phone, something that I personally hate and is one of the many reasons I need a laptop because holy fuck, trying to do anything on the phone makes me feel like a grandpa as I never really got into them.

My most autistic sentiment is that if I could get a PDA (w/ keyboard) that could take & send messages with some minimal distro on it that also had a banking app I would literally just ditch my phone entirely, alas...

FWIW the comment was actually targeted at how retarded Windows 11's file explorer is.

I honestly like Dolphin and PCManFM, both for their own qualities. File management through CLI works well too though, esp with completion where you can get pretty quick with it. There is a better file manager for Windows called DOpus, but it costs money. It has actually innovated on the explorer in many ways, too many to include here. I haven't used it myself, found it one day while researching the Amiga. This program was actually originally made for that system and is used by many ex-Amiga users. It makes Microsoft's explorer look like a trial version of itself.

 

[Betonhaus]

The first thing I learned back in the day on Linux Mint which was my first distro was blacklisting GPU drivers on my Notebook in GRUB in order to force it to use amdgpu which is apparently an issue on older integrated Radeon GPUs defaulting to an old graphics driver instead of it. So yeah, not really beginner friendly if you run into issues but I have heard anecdotally from some people that Linux Mint tend to minimize a number of issues that happen on other distros, couldn't say if that is true though because I personally distrohopped away pretty quickly.

Was "back in the day" last month or 1997?

 

[Betonhaus]

CNC machines

CNC machines are somewhat self contained, but I suppose communicating with them can require old software. I've worked with DOS based machines that use floppy drives, and one of the old shops I've been at had a great big mill that used punch cards (it was upgraded with an adapter tho)

 

[El Goblina]

Dolphin and PCManFM

You might like XFE. http://roland65.free.fr/xfe/index.php?page=screenshots

 

[Miller]

And it's running Manjaro.

View attachment 7387732

This is really cool.

>Manjaro
Oh come on, couldn't they make a deal with Bazzite or Steam?

 

[Susanna]

I started out with Macs and later had to learn Windows and Linux, and Linux is by far the more intuitive of the two. Don’t underestimate Mac users, and don’t overestimate how supposedly user friendly Windows is just because it’s what you grew up with.

 

[Baraka Obama]

I started out with Macs and later had to learn Windows and Linux, and Linux is by far the more intuitive of the two. Don’t underestimate Mac users, and don’t overestimate how supposedly user friendly Windows is just because it’s what you grew up with.

There's a ubiquity aspect to it that disagrees with you. High 90s% of desktop users grew up with Windows (pre-smartphone supremacy), many concepts were pioneered with Windows in such a way that they feel so absolutely normal that it's another one of those "fish doesn't know water exists" situations. MacOS didn't even get context menus until Mac OS 8, long after Windows made them a staple, and didn't get a "right click" until 8.6 (late 1998 ) when USB mice became an option, and now both just feel right at home because Windows made them an expectation. Until very recently Macs were just special PCs under the covers, using conventions Microsoft built on top of IBM's legacy, and even their ARM PCs use many Windowsy conventions like enter key for return, F keys, even PCI express.

 

[Betonhaus]

There's a ubiquity aspect to it that disagrees with you. High 90s% of desktop users grew up with Windows (pre-smartphone supremacy), many concepts were pioneered with Windows in such a way that they feel so absolutely normal that it's another one of those "fish doesn't know water exists" situations. MacOS didn't even get context menus until Mac OS 8, long after Windows made them a staple, and didn't get a "right click" until 8.6 (late 1998 ) when USB mice became an option, and now both just feel right at home because Windows made them an expectation. Until very recently Macs were just special PCs under the covers, using conventions Microsoft built on top of IBM's legacy, and even their ARM PCs use many Windowsy conventions like enter key for return, F keys, even PCI express.

People were familiarised with Windows machines because that's what they used at work, and if Mac OS was used for business then that's what people would've bought. Windows 95 and such had a tutorial on first startup to teach people how to use the mouse.

 

[Susanna]

People were familiarised with Windows machines because that's what they used at work, and if Mac OS was used for business then that's what people would've bought. Windows 95 and such had a tutorial on first startup to teach people how to use the mouse.

So did the Macintosh, though a decade before Windows 95 bothered to exist.
Bit of trivia, MS Solitaire is actually a mouse tutorial.

 

[AnOminous]

I started out with Macs and later had to learn Windows and Linux, and Linux is by far the more intuitive of the two. Don’t underestimate Mac users, and don’t overestimate how supposedly user friendly Windows is just because it’s what you grew up with.

Anyone who thinks Windows is "user-friendly" is fucking retarded. It is beyond user-adversarial and well into user-hostile.

 

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all Linux file managers are pretty annoying especially when you get into external drives (which require mount points)

Like... Mac OS X?

Leaving aside suggestions that grandma should use Arch AND LIKE IT, any Linux distribution that anyone sentient would recommend to/install for a non-technical newcomer handles all that shit automatically. Also exactly like Mac OS X