General Wrestling Discussion

[VF-1S Valkyrie]

I see a lot of consternation over Fight Forever's lack of content and not much over it's execution, which was also shit. Not sure what they've patched, if anything, but the game had tons of awful glitches; moves not working properly, objects like tables and chairs not behaving properly, characters falling through the ropes, characters falling through the floors, the character creator mode not working at all, it was and probably still is complete and total jank. The entire 'major glitches are fun and quirky' cope that people trot out for Toddslop was deployed hard but nobody was buying it, pun intended.

 

[Jeff Dunham]

I'm not a Joe Hendry fan and the whole "viral meme wrestler" thing has been done to death. With that put out there, TNA did Hendry dirty. Yeah he's getting paid, doing "bucket list" stuff and at the end of the day, I'm sure that's all he cares about but TNA offering him up as a sacrifice on the altar of their WWE "partnership" (lol) has been disastrous.

You can argue his loss to Orton, you can argue for his less-than-stellar Rumble apperance (no one thought he was going to win, but tossing him out in less than 5 minutes made him look like a chump) but there's no excuse having him lose on the developmental brand to a non-champion.

I've seen fans argue "wins and losses don't matter, he probably got signed to WWE". OK, but every chance that Hendry has been exposed to the WWE audience, he's been displayed as a loser who does a couple of funny tricks. How is that going to benefit him long term?

People can say what they want about the AEW/TNA partnership, but AEW at least got TNA to make Rich Swann drop it to KENNY OMEGA. TNA jumped at the chance to job their world champion out to some literal who in what I can only guess is an attempt at showing enough good will that WWE will buy TNA and Anthem can get some return on their investment.

I'm unironically missing Vince. I'd rather WWE go back to barely acknowledgeing the wider wrestling world, than the entire wrestling ecosystem devolve into developmental territories that exist solely to serve WWE. I really hope AEW get themselves together and stops pandering to deviant weirdos and becomes a legitimate alternative.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

The big thing that sunk XFL 2.0 was Covid, something which the Snowman completely ignores.

Not saying that the XFL would be rivaling the NFL or anything but it'd probably still have a TV deal and the such since networks are starved for content these days.

Guy is such an idiot.

yeah, XFL 2.0 was smart enough to try and be a developmental or feeder league for the NFL. It was getting good reviews, too, up until they had to cancel due to covid.

I'll take McMahon and Ventura over JR and Lawler every single time.

I can't really put I to words why old wrestling like this is so compelling. If you put some random episode of modern RAW in front of me, I'd probably lose interest but I can't stop watching this random episode of Saturday Night ME.

Vince was a seriously underrated commentator. I liked Monsoon, too, since he'd tell you the moves and wrestler's style throughout the match ("Dibiase is who you want in now, he's good at finishing a match" and stuff like that). Ventura was the best heel commentator because he was generally right about stuff he was saying.

JR was great because of the excitement but Lawler overall was pretty overrated.

 

[It's DVS Motherfucker]

yeah, XFL 2.0 was smart enough to try and be a developmental or feeder league for the NFL. It was getting good reviews, too, up until they had to cancel due to covid.


Vince was a seriously underrated commentator. I liked Monsoon, too, since he'd tell you the moves and wrestler's style throughout the match ("Dibiase is who you want in now, he's good at finishing a match" and stuff like that). Ventura was the best heel commentator because he was generally right about stuff he was saying.

JR was great because of the excitement but Lawler overall was pretty overrated.

Vince's passion, storyline advancing, over the top style and constant promoting made him my favorite. Gorilla and Jesse, as different as they were, both brought a kind of credibilty like you described. Agree on JR and Lawler as well. JR did had my favorite single call of all time during the Rock/Hogan match though. When Hogan drops the leg and JR calls, "He beat Andre The Giant with that move!", it conveys so much gravitas it legit gives me goosebumps. Flashbacks to my earliest wrestling memories when I did believe Andre was an unconquerable monster.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

Vince's passion, storyline advancing, over the top style and constant promoting made him my favorite. Gorilla and Jesse, as different as they were, both brought a kind of credibilty like you described. Agree on JR and Lawler as well. JR did had my favorite single call of all time during the Rock/Hogan match though. When Hogan drops the leg and JR calls, "He beat Andre The Giant with that move!", it conveys so much gravitas it legit gives me goosebumps. Flashbacks to my earliest wrestling memories when I did believe Andre was an unconquerable monster.

Yeah, JR was pretty good. Lawler and him had okay chemistry but Lawler really only had one mode and that was "kiss ass to the heel". Not even like Jesse who would defend the heel and explain why the heel was right, with Lawler it was blind ass kissing.

 

[Leaf Wage Slave Jr]

I still stand by my favourite commentary team being Don West and Mike Tenay in TNA. You had a perfect mix of Tenay’s borderline autistic knowledge of wrestling, and West being the single greatest hype man (and merchandise pusher) in the company.

They didn’t really have a proper Face/Heel commentary dynamic - barring the end during the Hogan/Bischoff years where West decided to go to the Full Liquor Bar - but it worked for them.

If only we knew what would come after (Borash having to live Tweet apologies during a PPV for how bad Taz and… I wanna say Ken Anderson were on commentary during the Ace’s and Eights run, Josh Mathews in general, the current guys are alright)

 

[Kermit the Frog]

I'm unironically missing Vince. I'd rather WWE go back to barely acknowledgeing the wider wrestling world, than the entire wrestling ecosystem devolve into developmental territories that exist solely to serve WWE. I really hope AEW get themselves together and stops pandering to deviant weirdos and becomes a legitimate alternative.

There's a balance between not acknowledging any wrestling outside of WWE like Vince did, and the current setup of bigger companies using smaller companies to take their titles and use as feeder promotions. The former can lead to a stale product that's stuck in its ways and closes itself off to talent who can bring something different to the table.

WWE was doing it right with TNA for a while where they would just have talent go back and forth, with TNA securing some nice wins, but now that a NXT wrestler has won the TNA title it's gone too far. I think it would have been cool if someone like AJ Styles won the title and had a few months to eventually put someone young over at a big show. Instead it was Trick Williams, who while over in NXT isn't any kind of special wrestler who will make more people want to see what's going in TNA. Nobody will give a shit who beat Trick.

Even when AEW had Omega as the TNA champion, it resulted in their worst ratings ever and did them absolutely no good. Fact of the matter is that people don't like it when an outsider with no connection wins the top title. I certainly wouldn't want to watch. AEW has gutted New Japan to the point where it's practically unwatchable with how little star power they have. Yes, the yen is weak and New Japan couldn't afford it, but that's partially because their shitty partnership with AEW has led to lowered interest. Both of the big companies are guilty of taking advantage of smaller ones.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

A wrestler in one promotion winning a title in another promotion is just complete stupidity.

 

[Samuel Fuller]

Tony: Heheheh Vince is so stupid wasting money on the XFL again. I should start a company because I'll never make those kind of dumb mistakes.
Also Tony: Let's spend 7 figures making a video game where we need to change the cover 5 times because guys left before it was finished. I'll also appoint one of my wrestlers to be the main consultant even though he has no experience designing video games.

Omega was made lead producer because he's a world-ranked fighting game player. He does a LOT of stuff for Capcom's Japanese streams.

The one thing in Fight Forever that I genuinely love is that Danhausen's curse move has a 100% failure rate against Jon Moxley, complete with a custom animation of Mox just shrugging when the curse is thrown.

Aside from that, it was content-starved, they ripped off buyers of the complete edition horribly with splitting off the know DLC they advertised initially into multiple season Passes, never addressed how insanely hard it is to unlock Brodie Lee and Owen Hart and took way too long to get the Stadium Stampede mode released.

 

[ChunkyKong]

TK on WWE running Counter programming.

I may be wrong but wasn't the Jim Crockett Promotions issue due to JCP JR trying to compete with WWF and buying out other NWA Territories resulting in a bloated roaster, debth, and overall being a financial disaster which resulted in JCP selling to Turner?

If that logic is correct isn't Tony doing the same by purchasing ROH (doing nothing with it) Poaching NJPW/CMLL Talent and signing anyone they can resulting in a bloated roster?

I could also be completely misremembering and retarded but it seems like Tony is emulating JCP then learning from JCP.

 

[Hijo de D. Woodchucks Jr.]

Omega was made lead producer because he's a world-ranked fighting game player

I knew the Fighting Game environment has fallen off, but Holy Jesus, that's fucking depressing.

I may be wrong but wasn't the Jim Crockett Promotions issue due to JCP JR trying to compete with WWF and buying out other NWA Territories resulting in a bloated roaster, debth, and overall being a financial disaster which resulted in JCP selling to Turner?

If that logic is correct isn't Tony doing the same by purchasing ROH (doing nothing with it) Poaching NJPW/CMLL Talent and signing anyone they can resulting in a bloated roster?

I could also be completely misremembering and retarded but it seems like Tony is emulating JCP then learning from JCP.

"Learning" is not a skill Tony has.

 

[Kermit the Frog]

View attachment 7414227

TK on WWE running Counter programming.

I may be wrong but wasn't the Jim Crockett Promotions issue due to JCP JR trying to compete with WWF and buying out other NWA Territories resulting in a bloated roaster, debth, and overall being a financial disaster which resulted in JCP selling to Turner?

If that logic is correct isn't Tony doing the same by purchasing ROH (doing nothing with it) Poaching NJPW/CMLL Talent and signing anyone they can resulting in a bloated roster?

I could also be completely misremembering and retarded but it seems like Tony is emulating JCP then learning from JCP.

I can't stand these ass kissing "journalists" who give Tony softball questions like he's a victim. I'll be fair and give Tony credit for not taking the bait to directly complain about WWE running shows on the same day. It would have been hypocritical considering this is the same guy who regularly says he's trying to compete with WWE.

 

[herefortheactualthreads]

new promo joey and botchamania uploads:

 

[trent]

Lee Fitting and Hunter were both listed as producers for TNAs latest PPV.

WWE are finally going to be the ones to kill the company. Letting De'sha'wn Jamal'Shenae or whoever the fuck it was take the belt off Hendry was fucking idiotic on TNAs part. WWE can just bigtime the fuck out of them now because they have no cards to play and are going to sign all of their decent bigger names anyway.

"Hey Hunter. Can we have your new identical black light-heavyweight guy "Crunk Pete" win our belt over on NXT and then build up against one of our hot new guys to lose it at the next PPV?"

"Uhhhhhh, nah. See, Pete's going to be working the Largo Loop for a bit because he's only learned 3 of the 5 moves we want him to do. His new gimmick is going to be literally pissing on your shitty podunk belt mid-ring whilst calling you all faggots. So, anyway, we have this new tiny Mexican girl who keeps injuring herself getting in and out of the ring. Can she be the next Knockouts champ?"

 

[crunchy bits are the best]

View attachment 7414227

TK on WWE running Counter programming.

I may be wrong but wasn't the Jim Crockett Promotions issue due to JCP JR trying to compete with WWF and buying out other NWA Territories resulting in a bloated roaster, debth, and overall being a financial disaster which resulted in JCP selling to Turner?

If that logic is correct isn't Tony doing the same by purchasing ROH (doing nothing with it) Poaching NJPW/CMLL Talent and signing anyone they can resulting in a bloated roster?

I could also be completely misremembering and retarded but it seems like Tony is emulating JCP then learning from JCP.

The Death of WCW is supposed to be a cautionary tale, not a guidebook on how to run a wrestling promotion like what Tony's doing.

 

[I'mma real anime gurl]

"Uhhhhhh, nah. See, Pete's going to be working the Largo Loop for a bit because he's only learned 3 of the 5 moves we want him to do. His new gimmick is going to be literally pissing on your shitty podunk belt mid-ring whilst calling you all faggots. So, anyway, we have this new tiny Mexican girl who keeps injuring herself getting in and out of the ring. Can she be the next Knockouts champ?"

The Mouse went to Raw but there's a thicc white bitch who is on and off TV who'd make a great Knockouts champ.

 

[Shoresy]

They just mentioned that the Seth/Bronson/Bron/Heyman group is a "dangerous coalition" during a promo a little bit ago....honestly, I'd dig that as their official group name. The Dangerous Coalition, like the Dangerous Alliance in WCW. C'mon Triple Paul, do it.

Edit: oh my god imagine a Punk heel turn with him joining the Dangerous Coalition as the fourth man? That could be money. Nevermind I am retarded, it should be a future star.

 

[FMW13]

A wrestler in one promotion winning a title in another promotion is just complete stupidity.

Ironic we all thought Dixie would kill company, only for WWE to be the steak that is driven into its decayed heart.

 

[Shipping Steel]

My quick thoughts on Double or Nothing.

Spoiler: My thoughts

Mercedes Mone vs Jamie Hayter
So this match was one of the first times I've decided to give a Mone match a proper watch, and it's only because I enjoy Hayter. It started off a bit clunky, and just as I started to wonder if they don't have chemistry, it suddenly ramped up. Hayter was over, but even a blind man could see where this was going. That ending was a botch, there is 0 change of changing my mind.

FTR vs Daniel Garcia & Nigel McGuinness
Heel FTR are great, this match was fucking lame. Daniel Garcia continues to provide no substance and no charisma. The worst match of the night, pretty forgettable.

Mark Briscoe vs Ricochet
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I enjoy Ricochet now. I was not excited to see him in AEW, considering there was enough clones in the company to make me think "Lost in the shuffle". This is a rare case where Chet leaving WWE turned out to be the best decision. Now, this match was a jack-in-a-box for me, but turned out to be a decent one. Briscoe will always put in 100% regardless of who he works with, and Chet provided some great chemistry. Good match, bloody towards the end, but it made sense. Good Chet win.

The Hurt Syndicate vs The Sons of Texas
This tag match turned out to be passable, considering the age in the ring was just under 185 years. MJF and Bobbo fall out will hit well, I just hope the flesh that out. The Sammy botch was the ugly side, but I place blame on Shelton for being slow on that spot. THS win as is predicted.

Kazuchika Okada vs "Speedball" Mike Bailey
Okada's American Holiday continues, as he puts on a decent match with Speedball... Look, I don't understand the hype around Bailey. Kicks are fine, but fuck is that all? Any TNA fans wanna add why he was well liked there? Anyway, Okada does his Paint-by-numbers schtick, guiding Bailey through the match that Okada likes to do. There's a lot of people out there who place blame on AEW on the Okada booking, but I put it down to not watching most of Okada during the NJPW phase. He's phoning it in, but like Nakamura, he deserves that. Good match, nothing to write home about.

"Timeless" Toni Storm vs Mina Shirakawa
This is my match of the night. Mina attacking Storms leg the whole match, putting in work focusing on the leg had me at one point legit thinking "Is this actually gonna happen?". It felt like it was an even match up, and they put on a high level wrestling match. Storm vs Mone should be a solid one to watch.

Anarchy in the Arena
Yeah, that happened. anyway...

The Paragon vs Konosuke Takeshita, Kyle Fletcher & Josh Alexander
This poor match was placed to give the fans a breather after the exhausting AitA beforehand. Ciggy-Butt brain Fletcher is angling to be in the main event scene in a year or two, as he's starting to get his own aura. As with most of us Bogans, cunt's nasal voice makes it hard to take him somewhat seriously still. I can see him holding a world title though. As for the match, good cool off for the Main Event.

Will Ospreay vs "Hangman" Adam Page
I wanted to join the chorus of most people giving this Match of the night, but it stopped short for me, and it was down to the match itself. We are, from memory, just over 3 and 3 quarter hours in to the event, and this match drops. The chemistry was here, no matter what people say, Hangman is AEW, and he's got an amazing natural charisma that just flows to the crowd naturally. I said this ages ago, Hangman is AEWs Magnum TA, it's a match made in heaven, and there will be people that don't get why. Ospreay is great, but after a full fucking night of simple flips, kinda burned out. Decently contested match, there was no clear winner leading up to this, and it did'nt disappoint. Hangers winning, leaves me to wonder where Ospreay goes.

For what it's worth, decent event overall. Results sets up All In, so let's see how the confirmed builds goes.

Now, I've noticed the presser is making the rounds with TK having a sook about counter programming. I stopped talking about pressers, but I wanna point out something on this point. I feel as if this is a YEARLY question people are forced to ask him. I'm sure the cocked up TK meme where he's not taking that shit anymore is where this question first popped up. I recall him being asked this question sometime mid last year as well. This goes in part with Ospreay flapping his gums about people in other companies, but just keep your mouth shut until you reach the summit. In TK's case, saying this yearly, when it's clear, is doing as much as punching a brick wall. We see it, we aren't stupid, we don't need your commentary on it, just shut your mouth and keep pushing through.

 

[James X Maxwell]

Somebody is on the eccies