- Joined
- Apr 3, 2019
The biggest downfall of Toby's games is that the Internet is fucking garbage at grasping the concept of nuance.
In Undertale, Toriel is overly caring to a fault, she feels the need to take care of everyone and this makes her quick to put someone else before herself. She's even willing to sacrifice overall wellbeing of everyone, if she could save someone from more suffering. So much to the extreme that she was willing to keep every monster trapped in the underground if it meant convincing a child to stay with her instead of going to their death at the hands of Asgore. On the surface she does this because she wants to be moral, but deep down its because her selfish desire to care for someone and make things "normal". Toriel even has a complete replica of the house in the castle built in the ruins, tell me that isn't some maladapted coping mechanism. Asgore, on the other hand, has basically numbed himself to everything because he knows its what he needs to do if it means helping everyone, even having to kill literal children, because in his eyes the ends justify the means. He is willing to take all the suffering onto himself, and sacrifice human lives, if it means saving every monster. They both are extremely empathetic, but taken to the opposite ends of the emotional spectrum to cope with an incredibly difficult choice. This is also after the events before Undertale happened where they lost both their biological and adopted child to tragedy, one at the hands of humans. I can see why they have pretty complicated views on what they're doing. It genuinely feels like most people that play this shit lack the emotional intelligence and/or reading skills needed to actually understand what's happening.
It's almost like there's some comparison meant to be drawn with your choices as the player or something
I feel like Deltarune is supposed to be a role reversal. Toriel is just doing what she feels she has to do to move forward, even if it seems callous towards one person. While Asgore desperately holds on to the past and tries to make things the way they used to be at the cost of his own wellbeing.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Toriel and Sans scene was just another chapter end expectation switcharoo like he's done before. It'll turn out Toriel and Sans were having fun completely platonically, Toriel was drinking grape juice and feels really bad that they kept Kris up, and Sans didn't know those pancakes were yours and he gives you a hot dog or something to make up for it. I also think that maybe dark worlds have a way of shifting personalities kind of like how dreams can make you feel off if they were emotionally charged. Most characters seem to have some kind of strong emotional development after going through a dark world, Toriel may have been asleep during chapter 3 but she could have been affected that caused her to finally stop caring about other people or something.
Sans is his whole own can of worms, and I can understand how he has an attitude reminiscent of Bill Murray in Groundhog Day. He says he's given up on anything changing and doesn't care about "going back" (to where we don't know yet) and he says he gave up the idea of ever making it to the surface as well. He basically knows that no matter what he does he really has no control, because the timeline just restarts, and all he can do is stand and watch. In the genocide route it's implied that he is aware of, and maybe watched you kill his brother and he didn't do anything about it. He's probably been killed, and watched his brother be killed, an immeasurable amount of times which would be torture. It's even said by Sans that he made a promise to Toriel to not harm humans and that's the only reason why he didn't kill you from the start. He's also been shown to have some kind of reality manipulation ability or knowledge of how to do it in a way, so he's had the means to stop you but it shows that he literally just didn't care enough. The only reason why he tries to intervene at the end of the Genocide Route in Undertale is because he realizes you have some kind of power to actually stop the living hell he probably has been in from reliving the events of the game endlessly. He is only trying to stall you as a way to preserve the timeline because he doesn't know what else to do. He doesn't call you a stinky meanie peepee poopoo head for killing everyone, he only says it in offhanded remarks like "You've been busy", he even admits that everything he said was just a ploy to try and trick you into trusting him and will fucking kill you if you try to take his offer to be spared by him. He just genuinely sees you as the source of his torment and wants to make you stop because it broke him. That's how I can tell immediately when someone didn't play the genocide route. That's not even mentioning the obviously incomplete role he plays that we aren't aware of yet that bridges the gap between games.
In Undertale, Toriel is overly caring to a fault, she feels the need to take care of everyone and this makes her quick to put someone else before herself. She's even willing to sacrifice overall wellbeing of everyone, if she could save someone from more suffering. So much to the extreme that she was willing to keep every monster trapped in the underground if it meant convincing a child to stay with her instead of going to their death at the hands of Asgore. On the surface she does this because she wants to be moral, but deep down its because her selfish desire to care for someone and make things "normal". Toriel even has a complete replica of the house in the castle built in the ruins, tell me that isn't some maladapted coping mechanism. Asgore, on the other hand, has basically numbed himself to everything because he knows its what he needs to do if it means helping everyone, even having to kill literal children, because in his eyes the ends justify the means. He is willing to take all the suffering onto himself, and sacrifice human lives, if it means saving every monster. They both are extremely empathetic, but taken to the opposite ends of the emotional spectrum to cope with an incredibly difficult choice. This is also after the events before Undertale happened where they lost both their biological and adopted child to tragedy, one at the hands of humans. I can see why they have pretty complicated views on what they're doing. It genuinely feels like most people that play this shit lack the emotional intelligence and/or reading skills needed to actually understand what's happening.
It's almost like there's some comparison meant to be drawn with your choices as the player or something
I feel like Deltarune is supposed to be a role reversal. Toriel is just doing what she feels she has to do to move forward, even if it seems callous towards one person. While Asgore desperately holds on to the past and tries to make things the way they used to be at the cost of his own wellbeing.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Toriel and Sans scene was just another chapter end expectation switcharoo like he's done before. It'll turn out Toriel and Sans were having fun completely platonically, Toriel was drinking grape juice and feels really bad that they kept Kris up, and Sans didn't know those pancakes were yours and he gives you a hot dog or something to make up for it. I also think that maybe dark worlds have a way of shifting personalities kind of like how dreams can make you feel off if they were emotionally charged. Most characters seem to have some kind of strong emotional development after going through a dark world, Toriel may have been asleep during chapter 3 but she could have been affected that caused her to finally stop caring about other people or something.
Sans is his whole own can of worms, and I can understand how he has an attitude reminiscent of Bill Murray in Groundhog Day. He says he's given up on anything changing and doesn't care about "going back" (to where we don't know yet) and he says he gave up the idea of ever making it to the surface as well. He basically knows that no matter what he does he really has no control, because the timeline just restarts, and all he can do is stand and watch. In the genocide route it's implied that he is aware of, and maybe watched you kill his brother and he didn't do anything about it. He's probably been killed, and watched his brother be killed, an immeasurable amount of times which would be torture. It's even said by Sans that he made a promise to Toriel to not harm humans and that's the only reason why he didn't kill you from the start. He's also been shown to have some kind of reality manipulation ability or knowledge of how to do it in a way, so he's had the means to stop you but it shows that he literally just didn't care enough. The only reason why he tries to intervene at the end of the Genocide Route in Undertale is because he realizes you have some kind of power to actually stop the living hell he probably has been in from reliving the events of the game endlessly. He is only trying to stall you as a way to preserve the timeline because he doesn't know what else to do. He doesn't call you a stinky meanie peepee poopoo head for killing everyone, he only says it in offhanded remarks like "You've been busy", he even admits that everything he said was just a ploy to try and trick you into trusting him and will fucking kill you if you try to take his offer to be spared by him. He just genuinely sees you as the source of his torment and wants to make you stop because it broke him. That's how I can tell immediately when someone didn't play the genocide route. That's not even mentioning the obviously incomplete role he plays that we aren't aware of yet that bridges the gap between games.
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