Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

[p1138]

I could be completely wrong, but to me the telltale sign of a pbta game is "playbooks". Basically the players and the DM have some pre-described "moves" that are played like cards.

The playbooks are an obvious sign of a pbta game, but isn't the real problem. Everything else, like not defining moves but they're important, failing the story forward and quickly realizing it may just be some improved "yes, and?" shit that some DMs(and players) can't handle as well as others, the "look we put a spin on pbta by adding an extra stat/trait/background/etc." to force the player to try and justify as part of a roll or can be so absurdly vague it can be used for practically anything. Basically PbtA but has something stapled onto it. I've tried Blades in the Dark, Broken Compass, Scum and Villainy, and they're all the same shit at the end of the day.

Car chases, sneaking stealth missions, social stealth missions, computer hacking, non-lethal combat. They have rules for them, but they're under developed compared to combat.

Have you considered Shadowrun 4th edition with the fantasy races and magic thrown in the trash? The reason I make the suggestion is there's the obvious "pink mohawk vs mirror shades" dichotomy of styles of gameplay(and one can quickly turn into the other) that has been there for years without being a problem for the game and is supported reasonably well(6e is just stupid, 5e's limits can get annoying). Using movies as an example, as a system it can support everything from Robocop to Sneakers in terms of setting and tone because the framework is there to support all of it.

 

[Judge Dredd]

"pink mohawk vs mirror shades" dichotomy of styles of gameplay

I dont know what that is.

Have you considered Shadowrun

Yes. Skipped it for various reasons. Related to this topic however.

He has another video about a similar topic involving the game Spycraft. I forget which video it was, but he uses the example of the driver character being useless if the mission doesn't involve vehicles.

But in the event you don't watch the video. Every system I've tried it comes down to this. Either it's an entirely separate game where others don't get to contribute. Or it comes down to a die roll or three. In either case, because it hinges on a single character, there's a good chance they fuck it up and derail the whole game.

So, let's say there's a car chase. If it's just a drive check, the driver doesn't get to feel like the transporter. He just makes a couple of rolls and that's it. If there's detailed chase rules, then the other PCs are doing basically nothing while the mini game plays out. And in both cases, hanging the session, or even the campaign, on a single point of failure is just asking for a nat 1 or 2 and suddenly the car slams into a lamp post. The villains get away and the game is basically done without heavy DM interference.


And yes, I know you can fudge it to a degree. A single failed stealth check doesn't mean the party is doomed, but maybe they make a noise, or an extra security guard appears.

Savage Worlds tries to abstract chase rules. I hear they're good, but I never ran them effectively. Players can also save bennies to get as many re-rolls as possible.

 

[Ghostse]

Oh, is that what Masks is? I began to read it, saw it was a narrative style game (of which there are a lot with superhero systems) and just tossed it because I wasn't interested in a narrative style game. I've never (knowingly) read any PbtA stuff before, so I guess that Influence thing is what I should know to avoid.

Masks is one of the least gooner PbtA games, but like most PbtA its underbaked.
They use "bonds" to try to set up things like team-up attacks with team members or help from various allies, but it really doesn't work as written and requires GMs to focus on the narrative and vibe and abandon the rules - which makes the whole building a character thing nearly a completely moot point. But as with any PbtA game, they have to keep the veneer of "no bro this s a totally real & serious TTRPG not just a bunch of people having a creative writing session. Look there's dice and a GM and everything bro"

The only other major issue is they aim for "teen titans" sort of setting which lends itself to everyone having horny hookups, but nothing in the material forces things that way unlike most PbtA.

See, this pisses me off. I will never get groups who design and write up characters and then make fun of someone for playing anything that isn't "literally me but capable of fighting monsters" or "literally me but can cast spells".

I'm 95% of cases, a man playing a female character will devolve to gooner behavior if given the oportuntity. I never found that shit particularly hilarious before, but now with Troon shit everywhere my low tolerance is pretty much zero.

I had a player who played a female monk who went around in a sundress and would try to play off being a weak lost damsel before flurry-of-blowsing someone. The player was good, they kept to their character and gimmick, but it still would make the almonds activate when he was up because I wasn't sure if he was going to try to go to Gooner Town.

Again the issue I have with most people creating a radically-different-from-them character is two fold:
First, its very rarely someoen competent and intelligence. 5 of 6 times, its them being a chaotic neutral klepto retard who everyone has to tard wrangle or some sort of annoying gimmick.
And second, after about two sessions they're tired of their gimmick and abandon it except when thye realize they have a chance to be a fucktard and impede story progress.

I know I'm getting long winded, but I like the idea of a game where the DM doesn't write the adventure, or a game that has more inter player interaction, or a game that does social conflict and resolution.

Dude, literally just go play V:tM LARP.

 

[p1138]

I dont know what that is.

"Pink Mohawk" would be going in guns blazing with machineguns, autocannons, loud, making a ruckus, explosions, etc.
"Mirror shades" would be your guys doing social engineering, wearing suits, keeping quiet, maybe having a face do the talking while an acrobatics guy is sneaking through an airvent. Like Ocean's Eleven.

Yes. Skipped it for various reasons. Related to this topic however.

He has another video about a similar topic involving the game Spycraft. I forget which video it was, but he uses the example of the driver character being useless if the mission doesn't involve vehicles.

But in the event you don't watch the video. Every system I've tried it comes down to this. Either it's an entirely separate game where others don't get to contribute. Or it comes down to a die roll or three. In either case, because it hinges on a single character, there's a good chance they fuck it up and derail the whole game.

Spoony is a fucking idiot who not only frequently got things wrong in his counter monkey videos(rules wise, social wise... or do you really think it's ok to let someone eat pizza from behind a toilet just because it's funny, or not follow the rules for D&D adventuring league and wonder why you got booted from being a DM again), to the point where having more experience in TTRPGs years after initially watching the counter monkey videos and then re-watching them later, Spoony is a dumbass and the reason his counter monkey series ended was because he probably got booted from more tables than he admitted to on his own livejournal to the point of no longer having a play group and not bothering to realize his fans would likely put up with just about anything if he were DM'ng and moderately competent.

In shadowrun if a character really is entirely focused on driving, then yes they're going to be useless if the mission doesn't involve vehicles. However, A rigger(drone guy) can still drive to an extent, a driver can have other skills besides driving as well of course. That's just someone who min-maxed themselves into being useless part of the time. The same could be said for playing a fantasy TTRPG and going all in on being a cavalier in pathfinder(mounted combat focused class) and then being surprised when you can't ride a horse through a series of caves on through the decks of a ship.

So, let's say there's a car chase. If it's just a drive check, the driver doesn't get to feel like the transporter. He just makes a couple of rolls and that's it. If there's detailed chase rules, then the other PCs are doing basically nothing while the mini game plays out. And in both cases, hanging the session, or even the campaign, on a single point of failure is just asking for a nat 1 or 2 and suddenly the car slams into a lamp post. The villains get away and the game is basically done without heavy DM interference.

Why are the passengers not hacking? Traffic lights, other vehicles. Shoot at the other vehicles, try to cause a flat tire. Get on the phone for communication with the safe house, arrange a car swap underneath an overpass, find an alternate route that might make the driver's job easier. There are solutions for this. If the players are doing the chasing, again... hacker for traffic and other vehicles. Shooting at the people leaving, finding a route to cut them off, calling in an incident like swatting a business to jam traffic up ahead if the cops aren't already involved in the chase.

Granted, none of this is specific to shadowrun either. You could do most of this stuff in any pbta system, the FFG star wars system, cyberpunk, even some of the warhammer RPGs out there.

 

[The greater a'tuin]

The Tomb Raider RPG is dead in the water. It was a foolish idea from the onset. This is not a deep lore franchise with space for donut steels, it is Lara Croft's story and little else. Not to mention how the cover alone was a DEI red flag.

 

[LovisXVI]

The Tomb Raider RPG is dead in the water. It was a foolish idea from the onset. This is not a deep lore franchise with space for donut steels, it is Lara Croft's story and little else. Not to mention how the cover alone was a DEI red flag.
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"You haven’t seen the last of it." Sounds like a threat to me.

 

[Tom Bombodildo]

I'm 95% of cases, a man playing a female character will devolve to gooner behavior if given the oportuntity. I never found that shit particularly hilarious before, but now with Troon shit everywhere my low tolerance is pretty much zero.


I had a player who played a female monk who went around in a sundress and would try to play off being a weak lost damsel before flurry-of-blowsing someone. The player was good, they kept to their character and gimmick, but it still would make the almonds activate when he was up because I wasn't sure if he was going to try to go to Gooner Town.

Again the issue I have with most people creating a radically-different-from-them character is two fold:
First, its very rarely someoen competent and intelligence. 5 of 6 times, its them being a chaotic neutral klepto retard who everyone has to tard wrangle or some sort of annoying gimmick.
And second, after about two sessions they're tired of their gimmick and abandon it except when thye realize they have a chance to be a fucktard and impede story progress.

I think I've said before that I've had pretty good luck when it comes to players, so I've only ever seen a few restrained coom-characters at public tables. But it seems to me that what's far more prevalent than some dude secretly getting bricked up over his character being a woman or a tabaxi or a dragonborn or whatever is a sort of unspoken expectation in otherwise good gaming groups that during character creation if you make something that isn't totally straight-laced and within expectations, you need to have a reason other than "I think it's cool/interesting".

To me, it seems to stem from a hypervigilant immune system meant to oust furries and genderspecials, but it seems to persist even within groups that are otherwise fine which makes it a lot more like an allergic reaction than fighting infection. Even in your own example, the guy never actually did anything, you were just on edge for no reason.

Maybe I've fallen for fa/tg/uy shitposting and nobody really has this problem, but I enjoy making weird characters and if I ever had one of those crusty grog DMs I read about, I'd go insane.

Spoiler: Sperging About My Latest Character, Feel Free to Ignore

Just as an example, in my brother's Pathfinder campaign which we started semi-recently, I had an idea for a mounted character that was like one of those wooden marionette knights come to life; think Geno from Super Mario RPG meets Don Quixote. His backstory is that he was an experiment built by a wizard to see if he could make a toy that would grow with a child, but the wizard basically succeeded in creating an intelligent life, so he treated the puppet like a son. He's obviously also inspired by Pinocchio as his arc throughout the game will be growing out of his childish imagination about knights and chivalry to actually becoming a powerful and respected knight. I've been playing him for a few months now and he's maybe one of my favorite characters I've ever played.

 

[Adamska]

He has another video about a similar topic involving the game Spycraft. I forget which video it was, but he uses the example of the driver character being useless if the mission doesn't involve vehicles.

That's a failure on the GM and player to a degree if they over specialize. You do have a role in games like Shadowrun, but most should always have at least some back-up abilities, or know what they signed up for if otherwise ignored. A driver likely due to their build should have a secondary role. A face, playing with stealth, or pair of hands for gunning down mooks are pretty common if they aren't riggers. Riggers often take a secondary hacker role outside of their rides.

An example of knowing you have a role would be like how I played my Troll Phys-Ad. He wasn't the most curious lad and was bad at most roles outside of beatstick (literally, he specced in clubbing the shit out of you and tanking hits), but he knew that limitation, and often used his limited connections, local knowledge of a decent chunk of the city, and experience as a runner to help devise the plans. He also was the only guy who really knew how to survive in the wilds and served as the translator if they worked with anyone Chinese. He also knew his job was to step in when things got loud, so he was damn good at hoofing it and putting fuckers down in one hit.

 

[Ghostse]

The Tomb Raider RPG is dead in the water. It was a foolish idea from the onset. This is not a deep lore franchise with space for donut steels, it is Lara Croft's story and little else. Not to mention how the cover alone was a DEI red flag.
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LOL

Due to creative differences we couldn’t get our vision to gel with the licensor’s

Read: we tried to cram as much Transright and Palestinian Liberation shit into this as subhumanly possible and were instead told to make a game that people who have fun playing. This made us REEEE due to colonialist oppression, and we'll soon donut steel this game to a PbtA clone.

To me, it seems to stem from a hypervigilant immune system meant to oust furries and genderspecials, but it seems to persist even within groups that are otherwise fine which makes it a lot more like an allergic reaction than fighting infection. Even in your own example, the guy never actually did anything, you were just on edge for no reason.

Agreed, but that's why I just usually nip that shit in the bud.

Also, TBCF here, this was also that game that had was hosted by the couple who tried to coerce me into swinging, so maybe my GOONERADAR was working I just was side-eyeing the wrong target.

 

[Adamska]

In terms of playing women, I've done it a few times. The longest running evil character I played was a woman; a harsh survival of the fittest tyrant and military strategist who essentially created an army ruling a state by the end game due to reacting very badly to her homeland getting genocided by incompetent Paladins. She became a powerful Disciple of Dispater who in the words of our friendly powergamer "likely would be the most annoying to fight against" due to her Prismatic Sword and crit fishing abilities.

It tends to just be an idea that comes up from time to time. It happens a bit more with World of Darkness games, but I tend to just make the character idea first, then do the physical aspects.

Speaking of Shadowrunning:

"Pink Mohawk" would be going in guns blazing with machineguns, autocannons, loud, making a ruckus, explosions, etc.
"Mirror shades" would be your guys doing social engineering, wearing suits, keeping quiet, maybe having a face do the talking while an acrobatics guy is sneaking through an airvent. Like Ocean's Eleven.

Sort of correct. Pink Mohawk refers to going hardcore punky and often is a bit lighter hearted and a bit more goofy in general. You basically take the setting and play it a bit more ridiculously. Mirrored Shades are much more dour and dark, playing into the dystopian mechanic. Black Trenchcoat's another term I've heard, where it's a bit in between the two, but far closer to shades in tone.

Then there's the hats, which indicate the sort of jobs you're willing to do. White Hats tend to have standards and morals and often are more likely to go out Hooding (fucking over the corpos for the little guy), Grey Hats tend to be morally flexible, but have enough standards or qualms to avoid the sleazy shit. Black Hats? Oh things like wetwork is just getting started...

Read: we tried to cram as much Transright and Palestinian Liberation shit into this as subhumanly possible and were instead told to make a game that people who have fun playing. This made us REEEE due to colonialist oppression, and we'll soon donut steel this game to a PbtA clone.

Read: We didn't even hit the lowest metrics for units sold that we promised that we did due to how dogshit the product was.

 

[p1138]

Sort of correct. Pink Mohawk refers to going hardcore punky and often is a bit lighter hearted and a bit more goofy in general. You basically take the setting and play it a bit more ridiculously. Mirrored Shades are much more dour and dark, playing into the dystopian mechanic. Black Trenchcoat's another term I've heard, where it's a bit in between the two, but far closer to shades in tone.

There's definitely a lot more to it, but I was just trying to give the most general description. A movie example of black trenchcoat would probably be something like Heat.

An example of knowing you have a role would be like how I played my Troll Phys-Ad. He wasn't the most curious lad and was bad at most roles outside of beatstick (literally, he specced in clubbing the shit out of you and tanking hits), but he knew that limitation, and often used his limited connections, local knowledge of a decent chunk of the city, and experience as a runner to help devise the plans. He also was the only guy who really knew how to survive in the wilds and served as the translator if they worked with anyone Chinese. He also knew his job was to step in when things got loud, so he was damn good at hoofing it and putting fuckers down in one hit.

The stealth B&E guy can also be a sidekick for a face doing some pickpocketing or other sleight of hand while the target is distracted, even a beatstick can be a sidekick for a face to add to whatever the face is trying to portray for the job. Doesn't mean they need to just be silent either while the face is talking, it's all a part of the social engineering pretending to be some big shot with bodyguards, and so on. Driver/rigger? Chauffer either for the face or to have swapped in for the real driver of a target.

Honestly, coming up with characters for an action/chase/heist type of game is super easy because you can just pull tropes straight out of so many movies and books, mix them up, and come up with a character that has a main thing they're good at but can provide other useful skills as well.

Read: We didn't even hit the lowest metrics for units sold that we promised that we did due to how dogshit the product was.

Considering it was just going to be PbtA slop, would you even need someone to write that anymore? Or could an AI just take the PbtA framework and slap a theme on top of it for you?

 

[Ghostse]

In terms of playing women, I've done it a few times. The longest running evil character I played was a woman; a harsh survival of the fittest tyrant and military strategist who essentially created an army ruling a state by the end game due to reacting very badly to her homeland getting genocided by incompetent Paladins. She became a powerful Disciple of Dispater who in the words of our friendly powergamer "likely would be the most annoying to fight against" due to her Prismatic Sword and crit fishing abilities.

I mean TBCF as the DM I RP women NPCs a lot.

....is it me? am I the troon gooner?

 

[Judge Dredd]

This might come across as more mati than intended, but I'm just trying to keep it short.

going all in on being a cavalier in pathfinder(mounted combat focused class) and then being surprised when you can't ride a horse through a series of caves on through the decks of a ship.

DnD, and I assume Shadowrun, all have classes that are different to achieve the same goal. ie. killing monsters. The wizard throws spells, the fighter swings his sword, the rogue backstabs, all result in a dead monster. Modern era games like Spycraft often don't do that (more later).

A rigger(drone guy) can still drive to an extent, a driver can have other skills besides driving as well of course.

The rigger introduces a Shadowrun specific issue of wanting to use their rig from long distance. Like sitting at home or in the van outside, requiring contrivances to actually get them in danger.

Why are the passengers not hacking?

Is a modern game, not cyberpunk.

Shoot at the other vehicles,

Often not applicable. Plus the face usually isn't good at shooting.

find an alternate route that might make the driver's job easier.

That's an aid check and doesn't really add much.

That's a failure on the GM and player to a degree if they over specialize.

In Spycraft, they are literally classes. There's a driver, a face, a soldier, a tech guy, etc. Skill based games like Savage Worlds don't have this problem as much.


As for funning Shadowrun as a cyberpunk game, my issue is different. The main one being that I find the magic overshadows and dilutes the cyberpunk stuff too much. "Just play Shadowrun without the magic" is the usual go to, but it always leads to problems and, ultimately, leaves you with a game not that much different from other d20 games. At least from my reading of it.

To me, it seems to stem from a hypervigilant immune system meant to oust furries and genderspecials

I think it's more of an online vs real life issue. Online I always hear how bad critical role fans are, but in RL they were one of my best players. I never had a problem with the "furries" that always play Dragonborn or Tengu or Tabaxi or Wolfkin or whatever. They aren't gooning on the rest of the party or players. They just like that specific type of character.

In the group I used to play in, the persistent problem guy was a history buff who kept throwing tantrums whenever something wasn't historically accurate and would play backseat game designer/gm. Like he'd dump wisdom then complain about player agency or how unrealistic it was when he got locked down with magic. He'd complain when he took damage, because full plate is invincible apparently. I've refered to him as HEMA guy in this thread because he would keep trying to prove his case by Shadiversy videos during the game and talking about HEMA techniques.

The DM was nicer than me. I'd have made a spite encounter where the party gets attacked by goblins with can openers or something. Or just kicked him from the group. Though since then I've started to suspect he's a mental defective when during one board game he started punching himself in the face after a bad play.

 

[Apparatus Aruspices]

Though since then I've started to suspect he's a mental defective when during one board game he started punching himself in the face after a bad play.

The face-punch, knee-punch and self-slap are hallmarks of the clinically retarded and emotionally immature

 

[Tom Bombodildo]

I think it's more of an online vs real life issue.

Ah, that's a good point. I tend to think of tabletop as being almost entirely IRL (though by now most of my games are digital) but if you're trying to get randos online, gooning must be much more frequent.

 

[p1138]

The rigger introduces a Shadowrun specific issue of wanting to use their rig from long distance. Like sitting at home or in the van outside, requiring contrivances to actually get them in danger.

What, interference and countermeasures? Things that actually come up in the real world? Yeah sure the drone operator might want to sit in a van 6 blocks away, good luck controlling a drone in downtown NYC from that distance while sitting in a van. That's also not including a target being aware of these things, and also depending on the size of the drone, noise it makes, and time of day not caring that it gets spotted on the way there.

Is a modern game, not cyberpunk.

Why does that stop someone from hacking? Even a game set in 2025, so? Probably not going to be doing it to other vehicles in a setting not set in the future, but modern cities have traffic light controls, traffic cameras that can have feeds replaced, using IR flashers to turn lights green has been a thing(and usually illegal if not on an emergency vehicle) for decades. If we're talking about a game set in the cold war, that's going to be different of course but that's also not modern anymore.

Often not applicable. Plus the face usually isn't good at shooting.

So now the face has over-specialized? How does the face get themselves out of a jam if the situation doesn't go as planned? Just give up and immediately surrender while it's up to everyone else rescue them? Not being amazing at something or having it even really be a skill you're ok at should not automatically disqualify someone from doing something. Doesn't mean they've got a high chance of succeeding ,but it shouldn't just be impossible especially if we're talking about something as basic as shooting through a window, something people do in movies, games, and even real life in police chases regularly.

That's an aid check and doesn't really add much.

If you only make it an aid check, sure. Did you ask the player how they did it? What resources or knowledge did they use? How many steps did it take? Also, this is one thing, even if it did amount to an aid check at the end of the day(which it shouldn't) why is that the only thing assisting the driver?

As for funning Shadowrun as a cyberpunk game, my issue is different. The main one being that I find the magic overshadows and dilutes the cyberpunk stuff too much. "Just play Shadowrun without the magic" is the usual go to, but it always leads to problems and, ultimately, leaves you with a game not that much different from other d20 games. At least from my reading of it.

So you haven't tried it, but used Spoony of all people as a reference? Come on. Shadowrun with the magic thrown in the trash actually opens up more mundane options, because you're not concerned with the magic stats anymore and how tech interferes with it costing essence or having to balance rewarding karma vs cash because the one finger wiggler needs karma to advance while everywhere else is looking for money.

DnD, and I assume Shadowrun, all have classes that are different to achieve the same goal. ie. killing monsters. The wizard throws spells, the fighter swings his sword, the rogue backstabs, all result in a dead monster. Modern era games like Spycraft often don't do that (more later).

No, shadowrun does not have classes. You can build a character to be better at a set of skills and have that be a breaking and entering guy, a beatstick, a face, and so on. But classes? No. Why? Because pidgeonholing characters into doing one specific set of things would be awful in a game where you're expected to be doing spy shit, heists, chases, and so on fairly regularly.

edit: Also I'd say that from the DM side of things, shadowrun using dice pools with target numbers of hits required, can give a bit more variation with regard to gradients of success or failure rather than more binary "pass/fail" on a single d20+modifier(and there's still glitches/critical glitches, and buying hits when the situation makes sense for it). The reason I specified 4e and not 5e, is that 5e puts limits on the number of possible successes for most tests unless you're spending an edge and in my experience just results in there being a soft cap on dice pools that doesn't improve the game. And well, 6e... is a giant pile of garbage that failed basically right at launch and hasn't(and likely won't) recover due to having combat math so bad(unless they've changed this, which I doubt) it would take a double tap from a .50bmg to take out an infant, not that I condone using infants as ablative body armor but it's one of the more obvious failings.

 

[Judge Dredd]

So you haven't tried it,

No. I skimmed one of the books (I forget which) but ultimately decided against it in favour of other things. There's lots of games I want to run but never have.

To repeat myself a bit, it's difficult to get people away from the DnD 5e plantation. I've had some success, but a lot of failure. Super hero games quickly fall apart due to arguments over power level and game balance. RIFTs is notorious online as the best game nobody plays. Hollow Earth Expedition is a setting nobody but me knows or cares for. Some are just different rule systems. Castles and Crusades is a big one. Gets raves online but no one will play it. DnD 4e piqued my interest due in part to conversations here. Others are specific adventures or settings, like Barrowmaze or the Numeria/Numeneria style ancient machines vs fantasy type settings.

So now the face has over-specialized? How does the face get themselves out of a jam if the situation doesn't go as planned?

Because pidgeonholing characters into doing one specific set of things would be awful in a game where you're expected to be doing spy shit, heists, chases, and so on fairly regularly.

You're close to getting it. You're focusing too much on the example and not on the problem itself. The problem being that in fantasy and sci-fi, the fantastical element prevents overspecialization. All the classes have a bunch of monster killing and dungeon raiding things to do. Savage Worlds gets around this problem well enough since a dip into fighting or shooting is cheap enough if they want to do that.


But yes, Spycraft is held up as the gold standard by a friend of mine but that game has strict classes. Some are generalists like Explorer (for your Indiana Jones types), and there's supposedly expansions for turning the game into a Disney Gargoyles simulator. I don't know how locked in you are to your class role as I never got it to the table, but there are "expert" classes like politician, which for a James Bond action game seems like a very limited choice, but at the same time the friend that recommends the game really talked up a character who's special skill was cutting through red tape. It's a dense book, and being old means it's not widely available and doesn't have online tools to make it easier.

I assumed Shadowrun has classes because it's been a while since I read it, and everyone talks about wanting to PysAd or Decker or Street Samurai or Shaman. Iirc the PC game Shadowrun Returns had classes.

Why does that stop someone from hacking? Even a game set in 2025, so? Probably not going to be doing it to other vehicles in a setting not set in the future, but modern cities have traffic light controls, traffic cameras that can have feeds replaced, using IR flashers to turn lights green has been a thing(and usually illegal if not on an emergency vehicle) for decades. If we're talking about a game set in the cold war, that's going to be different of course but that's also not modern anymore.

Because I'm not running Person of Interest. I'd like to, but that's not the setting provided. I could go into it, but I doubt kiwis want to read my homebrew fanfic based on shows they've never heard of. 90s James Bond is a close enough approximation to get the concept however.

Ah, that's a good point. I tend to think of tabletop as being almost entirely IRL (though by now most of my games are digital) but if you're trying to get randos online, gooning must be much more frequent.

I was thinking more that online discourse is often bullshit. Furries that turn up in a fursuit and tries to fuck the cat while the rainbow haired tranny screams about the pronouns of their magic wheelchair Tiefling is something to appears online a lot but has never happened to me. It might happen, but I haven't seen it.

In my case, the furry was alright, the critical role fan was great, and the "gooner" with a Deviant Art page of fetish art was chill and even made (not fetish) art of the party. I can't talk about political leanings much, because outside of a few ancaps, I don't talk politics at the table and neither to the players.

 

[Battlefield2142EU]

Not to mention how the cover alone was a DEI red flag.

You knew the game was going to be shit when even Crystal Dynamics backed off because you were making the game too woke. These are the same faggots who made Lara Croft look like a tranny and retcon every supporting male character gay. Yes. Evil hat productions social media accounts outright admits Crystal Dynamics rejected how political they were making the Tomb Raider TTRPG.

 

[p1138]

You're close to getting it. You're focusing too much on the example and not on the problem itself. The problem being that in fantasy and sci-fi, the fantastical element prevents overspecialization. All the classes have a bunch of monster killing and dungeon raiding things to do. Savage Worlds gets around this problem well enough since a dip into fighting or shooting is cheap enough if they want to do that.

What? People overspecialize in fantasy games all the time, and then end up sitting on their hands doing nothing especially when that overspecialization results in not being able to actually participate. Also, fantasy doesn't mean that all you're doing is raiding dungeons and killing monsters, that gets boring.

I assumed Shadowrun has classes because it's been a while since I read it, and everyone talks about wanting to PysAd or Decker or Street Samurai or Shaman.

Because they're using words to describe a main role, or general character concept.

90s James Bond is a close enough approximation to get the concept however.

You mean 90s James Bond, like the Pierce Brosnan movies? With all of their wacky shit? Goldeneye? Tomorrow Never Dies? The World is Not Enough? Where you've got space lasers, cars with built in guns and missile launchers, stealth rocket powered boats, snowmobiles with grappling hooks, x-ray glasses, guns hidden in bagpipes? Where Bond and the bad guys end up in crazy chases and heists more than ever actually spying on anything? As in peak 90s action movie nonsense that shadowrun can do and hacking in a car is the concern of things not being realistic or setting appropriate?

Maybe you should take another look at it, more than just a glance and ignore Spoony and his nonsense and see what the system can actually do that you might want in a game.

 

[Henri Barbusse]

I mean TBCF as the DM I RP women NPCs a lot.

....is it me? am I the troon gooner?

One time I played a female character, the GM tried to convince me it was because I'm trans, so I think you're fine.