Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

[Ghostse]

Acanum: Of Steamworks and Of Magick Obscura, CRPG.
Actually seeing it expanded into a ttrpg might be interesting, but I'm not interested in anyone in the scene currently touching it with a 50,000 league pole.

Acanum is one of those things where I just could not get into it, but i don't think its bad just not my cuppa.
But I think the issue is if you try to pry Acanum out of the computer, there is nothing really special about Acanum that wouldn't be lost when the one turbosperg-savant who made the games isn't writing them and all the systems have to be exposed and can't be subtly adjusted behind he scenes to create interesting and engaging fights.

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Okay, I've seen this. I still don't know what you mean by "idea agnostic" and your inability to articulate it suggests that you're probably not intelligent enough to pull it off

This is the dictionary definition of "Harsh but Fair (and accurate)"

I'm not sure what you mean by "idea agnostic." There's systems like One Page Rules and Lion/Dragon/Xenos Rampant that are ostensibly setting-neutral.

I think he means in the same way he hit the bong a little hard and his brain is now "idea agnostic".

I am a bit retarded with words so I am going to try to explain the ultimate goal of "idea agnostic". And I'd hate to use warhammer as a reference, but like, how many Bretonnian Knights do I need to take down a spacemarine land raider.

This dumb and why Total Accurate Battle Simulator was developed, so you can come up with this sort of stupid concept and then laugh as it plays out in real time over the course of 5 minutes instead of dragging everyone into a year-long process.

it seems what you're looking for is something akin to a megagame.

I don't think he wants a megagame. I think he wants a game where, like in the example video of spehce mehrens vs. bugs with orbital cruisers and fighters and infantry grunts against innumerable bugswarms, you could simulate a battle of any size and complexity at any granularity, between forces of any tech level because the focus is more on tactics, logistics, and strategic planning/placment than tactical action.
Where I think to apply his Highdea of "How many knights does it take to blow up a land raider" its more about "How many knights would be needed to force the Land raider to be forced to withdraa".

@Ensi if what I've got is accurate, you should look at real wargames as those are more about what you seem to want which is logistical resource placement/procurement and tactical placement not engagement so you can more readily try to extrapolate the wider battle for important hexes.

edit: Also a lot of the reason Megagamers keept thier shit proprietary is less about austically hording and protecting their IP and more towards the same reason War Thunder is #1 collector of classified information about military systems: Sperg tardout slapfights about comparitive unit strengths.
"Nuh UH! My Samurai are Loyal to the Daimiyo. There is no way a bunch of limp wristed frenchmen just arriving after a months long journey will be able to get them to break ranks before the charge hits their lines. You can see on this chart about the tensile strength of 550 Hanzosteel..."

 

[Ghostse]

Also @Ensi I just want to say
When you are designing a game, "Being dumb at words" isn't a valid excuse. If you are making a game, you need to not just be a fun ideas man, you need to be a Good Writer, A Good Typesetter/Lay out man, a decent artists, a statistics math nerd, a legal mind for your rules, and a salesman or You need to have people who can be these things; partners or professionals you can outsource to.
If you can't describe your idea to randos on the internet who understand TTRPGS, you need to fix that first before you start trying to make Warhammer vs. Warhammer 40K.

You'll need to be a full spectrum nerd.

edit: Making this shit even dumber somehow, @Yuck Fou alerted me to another couple of tweets from this moron, the original in the image was deleted but he archived it.

Yeah @Yuck Fou DM'ed me about it last night but I told him to come post in the nerd hive. I think he doesn't want to be associated with nerds or something.

I think it'd be a bigger deal if anyone actually gave a shit about the retard D100 game with an official GM mask.

 

[Overly Serious]

I think he means in the same way he hit the bong a little hard and his brain is now "idea agnostic".

I took it as meaning he wants the rules to be universal enough that they can be separated from any particular milieu. Like how the Hero 6e RPG system can be. Something does 3d6 damage and that relates to an Armour score of 5 in such and such a way. And it doesn't matter if the thing that does 3d6 damage is a broadsword, a lightning spell or a Colt 45. That's just the setting part. And that because the rules aren't tied to a specific setting, you can have cross-overs in which Bretonian knights are fighting WH40K land raiders.

At least that was what I thought he meant.

 

[anti SJW]

Wonderfilled games has lost it on X/ Twitter.

 

[40 Year Old Boomer]

When you are designing a game, "Being dumb at words" isn't a valid excuse. If you are making a game, you need to not just be a fun ideas man, you need to be a Good Writer, A Good Typesetter/Lay out man, a decent artists, a statistics math nerd, a legal mind for your rules, and a salesman or You need to have people who can be these things; partners or professionals you can outsource to.

Seconding this. The one guy in my group with the most ideas has dyslexia BAD and I often do his editing to make things comprehensible.

 

[Judge Dredd]

How wrong have I been about Shadowrun?

I had always been told Shadowrun was the final boss of complex, hard to run TTRPGs, where you need a maths degree for a basic attack roll. From my initial skim, it appears to be skill + attribute d6s, 5+ is a success. Which doesn't seem that different from Aliens, which the internet raves about.

This isn't the only thing. Kiwis were recomending 4e, elsewhere 3e is the best, then 5e, with 4e and 6e being dumbed down. Then there's SR Anarchy, which is it's own separate simplified version?

Still doing research.

 

[p1138]

How wrong have I been about Shadowrun?

I had always been told Shadowrun was the final boss of complex, hard to run TTRPGs, where you need a maths degree for a basic attack roll. From my initial skim, it appears to be skill + attribute d6s, 5+ is a success. Which doesn't seem that different from Aliens, which the internet raves about.

This isn't the only thing. Kiwis were recomending 4e, elsewhere 3e is the best, then 5e, with 4e and 6e being dumbed down. Then there's SR Anarchy, which is it's own separate simplified version?

Still doing research however.

6e isn't "dumbed down" it's just "dumb" and suffers from its own math not working properly. 5e's NPCs aren't built following the rules of character creation, but it doesn't matter as they're NPCs.

And no, it was never super complicated to run, other than for bad DMs who can't think on the fly but it should be piss easy for anyone that's watched or read a bunch of heist/spy movies and novels. Character creation can be messy(but there are other games worse about that as well, like Mekton) and shit like Chummer(or a cracked version of herolab) can help with that anyway.

I think it'd be a bigger deal if anyone actually gave a shit about the retard D100 game with an official GM mask.

It absolutely would, just hilarious to see his this guy's twitter tantrum and what caused his bullshit game to not sell.

 

[Allied-Mastercomputer]

@Ensi Dude, just buy a PC and zone out playing Foxhole for a month or two. That should fit your needs for a while.

 

[Ensi]

Dude, just buy a PC and zone out playing Foxhole for a month or two. That should fit your needs for a while.

I am currently in a position where I can't play foxhole, I would if I could.

 

[Ghostse]

Wonderfilled games has lost it on X/ Twitter.

View attachment 7564867
View attachment 7564868

"We're going to make this game inclusive to everyone by eliminating an entire group" - Well done, lefttard. You some how made a gayer version of Coyote and Crow.

And when I make my Nigger/Injun character, you'll call me racist and appropriating.

 

[ZMOT]

I had always been told Shadowrun was the final boss of complex, hard to run TTRPGs, where you need a maths degree for a basic attack roll. From my initial skim, it appears to be skill + attribute d6s, 5+ is a success. Which doesn't seem that different from Aliens, which the internet raves about.

same for arkham horror, remember the carlin quite about average IQ.

Still doing research.

you can always learn german and go full 5kraut

 

[Red Dragon]

Kiwis were recomending 4e, elsewhere 3e is the best, then 5e, with 4e and 6e being dumbed down. Then there's SR Anarchy, which is it's own separate simplified version?

I like 2e, but I'm a nostalgiafag about Shadowrun.

 

[LovisXVI]

This isn't the only thing. Kiwis were recomending 4e, elsewhere 3e is the best, then 5e, with 4e and 6e being dumbed down. Then there's SR Anarchy, which is it's own separate simplified version?

3e, 4e, and 5e are all good on their own terms, though 5e has issues regarding editing and formatting. 1e and 2e are just more complicated and less refined versions of 3e, so you can roundly ignore them and use the frankly incredible wealth of FASA era adventures and splats as they are all compatible. 6e is just retarded for a variety of reasons that could be a great length. I would recommend that if you end up with 5e, which is the version I run and play, DON'T use the base character creation rules. Either use Life Modules, Sum-to-10 or Point Buy all from Run Faster, as all these systems are just better in their own ways.

 

[The Ugly One]

"We're going to make this game inclusive to everyone by eliminating an entire group" - Well done, lefttard. You some how made a gayer version of Coyote and Crow.

And when I make my Nigger/Injun character, you'll call me racist and appropriating.

Best part is they hired old, white men to imagine and illustrate the white-free future. I guess the fantasy-future with no whites will have shitty art. Well, maybe the other best part is they deleted their Twitter.

 

[Overly Serious]

How wrong have I been about Shadowrun?

I had always been told Shadowrun was the final boss of complex, hard to run TTRPGs, where you need a maths degree for a basic attack roll. From my initial skim, it appears to be skill + attribute d6s, 5+ is a success. Which doesn't seem that different from Aliens, which the internet raves about.

This isn't the only thing. Kiwis were recomending 4e, elsewhere 3e is the best, then 5e, with 4e and 6e being dumbed down. Then there's SR Anarchy, which is it's own separate simplified version?

Still doing research.

4e is, imho, the high point of Shadowrun. Rules wise it had better balance than 1st to 3rd and though I originally missed target numbers that wore off quickly - the 4e system, which is like Aliens as you say - played much cleaner without giving up any depth. 5e frankly added complexity unnecessarily imo and though I never ran it, I recall finding much of the changes rather arbitrary and clunky. It seems to have its fans though. In terms of setting, 4e is again the best imo. It makes a lot more sense to people born in the 90s and onwards than the old William Gibson influenced stuff with the commlinks, a Matrix that actually makes sense and generally the people who wrote books like Seattle 2072, Arsenal, Street Magic, etc. had a good grasp on realism and hanging things together in a way that made sense.

I know some people are fans of Third as that didn't have quite as radical changes as Fourth, but I hand on heart truly believe that for anyone knew to the game, 4th is absolutely the best edition to pick up.

If you can, get hold of the 20th Anniversary edition. It has more of the rules collated in the core book and is slightly re-organised and edited to read more clearly. The art and fiction for it is nice, too.

That will really give you a pretty complete game in its own right with everything you'd need to play. But I'd also recommend as an excellent source book for the setting in general and obviously Seattle itself as the default place to play. Following that I'd recommend Arsenal which isn't only a giant catalogue of guns, vehicles, etc. but also is pretty rich in creating a feel for the setting. Most people would probably recommend Street Magic as the most necessary follow up book and it's very, very good. But you probably don't want to mainline all the magic stuff right away. Augmentations and Unwired round out the last of the four core rule supplements and Unwired is the only weak one of the four.

Corporate Enclaves and Running Wild are both also excellent supplements.

But really you can do so much with just the core book. Especially if as I mentioned you can get the 20th Anniversary edition. The rules aren't changed, they just include more.

 

[Overly Serious]

Apologies for double-post but I left it a little long and if I add all this to my existing post it might get missed. So...

@Judge Dredd I'd also like to draw your attention to one of the underlying principles of Shadowrun in general. Offence > Defence.

I mentioned this earlier but it really needs to be understood that this is deliberate design intent. This isn't D&D or a lot other games where Armour and Swords are in some kind of progressive equilibrium. If someone is pointing an assault rifle at you, don't think "but I bought armour." Either shoot the other person first or find some bloody cover. It's not an absolute rule. A powerful mage, a cyberzombie (spirits help you!) or a dragon can tank small arms and whatnot, but as a general principle Shadowrun is a game of trying to get the drop on your opponents. Whether just out and out going undetected or being faster on the draw or, the eternal favourite, backstabbing them once they trust you.

If you run into anything that you think is bad design / broken in 4e, shout because sometimes the balance to it isn't immediately obvious. Like binding spirits can seem pretty powerful. And it is. But it's also expensive. At my table, the players complained that they weren't making much money. I pointed out that they'd spent 6,000¥ binding an air elemental for a job that paid 15,000¥. And that also if they felt that the mage was more powerful than their characters, why the Hell were they all covering his expenses. The Samurai spent about 100¥ on bullets for the entire mission. Of COURSE the mage was looking impressive when he spent over five-thousand more per mission than the Samurai. If the Samurai bought an anti-tank launcher per mission, would that be reasonable?

After this little talk they began to see things in a different way.

Something I like about 4e is how it manages to be dangerous but not ultra-deadly. You mentioned you'd played the Aliens RPG. Well if we drew a line between D&D 5e on one end and Alien RPG on the other and called this line the "Suddenly Dead Spectrum", Shadowrun 4e would probably be around two-thirds of the way towards Aliens but not all the way. You can die in Shadowrun moderately easily, but it's still usually your fault unless you have an inept GM.

 

[Agent of Z.O.G.]

How wrong have I been about Shadowrun?

Like, 3 levels of downies playing telephone, wrong.

Shadowrun's problem is that the rules are shit and unclear and where there's some "How do I fiddle with the numbers to squeeze the most out of my points" thing the actual Shadowrun problem is having to use Talmudic pilpul to explain to the GM why you can cross the street.

 

[p1138]

Like, 3 levels of downies playing telephone, wrong.

At this point, dude just needs to go pick up the 3rd, 4th, or 5th rulebook(the one formatted the worst) and start reading over the weekend. With the disagreements that come up at times in this thread, and by now tons of people with different expectations of games and experience have thrown their 2 cents(and then some) into the conversation with no major disagreement about it, it's absurd to even think Spoony might have been correct about shadowrun being some broken dumpster fire shit show of a game that requires a doctorate in Microsoft Excel to run efficiently or something.

Even people at the guy's own table have mentioned shadowrun(according to him), leaving the only person with these weird ideas about it being again... Spoony who hasn't had a regular TTRPG group to play with since about 2008(ignoring the couple failed attempts at gaming with other channel awesome people, and that being about when his knowledge of anything in the hobby cuts off in his counter monkey videos other than trying to flip through the D&D 5e book and calling that a "review" toward the end), so damn near 2 decades. But even then most of his videos revolve around him or someone else at the table being an immature asshole who can barely function in a social environment to begin with.

 

[Mister Uno]

I never played the beta, but overall, Pathfinder 2e works well.
I've been playing it for a few years now, and it's simple enough to run, with well-defined rules, making it easy for me to create challenges and have a system to lean on.

I've been DMing for the first time for PF2e. Really like it myself, but I'm so use to AOOs, is that really locked behind a feat now for Fighters or am I just that terrible at looking shit up?

 

[p1138]

I've been DMing for the first time for PF2e. Really like it myself, but I'm so use to AOOs, is that really locked behind a feat now for Fighters or am I just that terrible at looking shit up?

They renamed it, you're looking for "Reactive Strike" and no it's not a feat, they get it at lvl 1.