Stop Killing Games (EU edition) - Moldman vs. Publishers

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Fuck it, I'll bite. Do you believe consumers should be able to own software they've bought? If you do, I'd like you to attempt to reconcile this belief with whatever the fuck you're trying to push here. Do you believe consumers should be forced to hand over the ownership of software they've bought for any or no reason whatsoever?

Bonus questions:
1. What is the fundamental difference between a "frontend" and a "backend"?
2. Do you believe that owning software entitles you to IP rights to said software?
 
Good news: Steve from Gamers Nexus did a video on SKG with Ross.
The bad news: it's on his new GNCA channel that has no reach whatsoever.
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Well, not if you tell people upfront how long the game will last. Only if you wanna kill it without an end-of-life plan.
You are right Devs who build a game with a planned kill switch should have to refund double the games price and do up to 10 years behind bars.

Deliberately creating a product that could be build to work forever in a way that it will be destroyed forever after some time is not acceptable at all.
 
You are right Devs who build a game with a planned kill switch should have to refund double the games price and do up to 10 years behind bars.

Deliberately creating a product that could be build to work forever in a way that it will be destroyed forever after some time is not acceptable at all.
I'm confused, where is the scam if you tell people how long their product will be available? (Nobody would do this.,because nobody is going to buy a game with an expiration date on the box, like Ross said in that video)
 
The Gordian knot cut here is that we're paying you for the privilege. You buy something, you own it. If you want to kill you game, you need to tell consumers upfront how long their service (which you are selling as a good, a product) will last.
The one who pays should own it.
The gamers payed for it.
Devs should be publicly flogged for being the most lazy faggots there are.

You are a retard.
First off, pretending that the backends of games are some kind of ultra-secret tech, and that giving those secrets to gamers would somehow harm the developers, is preposterous.

If they’re no longer selling the game, there’s no reason not to hand it over. And if they don’t want to hand it over, then they should create a version of the game that doesn’t require their "super secret" backend.

If developers are such sub-humans that they use platforms or tools which force them to build a kill switch into their games, then we’re back to talking about publicly flogging them.
Game creators don't get to jealously guard their backend once they decide it's no longer worth it to keep the lights on.

Giving the consumer the ability to host their own server was industry standard in the past when server costs was expensive

Treating server client as a industry secret that needs to be kept under lock and key for perpetuity is retarded and game dev brained
You retarded nigger, they shouldn't be allowed to kill my frontend, that I fucking paid for, when they decide to discontinue the backend.
4niggers need to neck.
Fuck it, I'll bite. Do you believe consumers should be able to own software they've bought? If you do, I'd like you to attempt to reconcile this belief with whatever the fuck you're trying to push here. Do you believe consumers should be forced to hand over the ownership of software they've bought for any or no reason whatsoever?

Bonus questions:
1. What is the fundamental difference between a "frontend" and a "backend"?
2. Do you believe that owning software entitles you to IP rights to said software?
you don't get to do the 4cuck tactic of "disagreeing with me makes you a stuttering ninny" when your first post in this thread is crying about being bullied out of the other one for being a retarded baiting illiterate faggot. go back
And issue a full refund, adjusted for inflation.
Some thoughts:
The reason software costs money is solely due to artificial scarcity. It costs just about nothing to deliver the binaries to consumers. Development costs must be recuperated through placing an artificial wall between your product and its prospective buyers. In the world of gaming this can also be achieved by a few ways. One way is by giving a 30% cut of your profits to a third-party company called Valve and counting on the likelihood that an irrational subset of consumers will consciously choose to purchase your game on their platform rather than torrenting it for free. This seems to be the solution that gamers are loudly clamoring for, and it's the best and easiest solution for smaller developers despite forcing you to pay a massive, massive amount of money to a corporation that did not work on your game at all. And if your game does not have secure centralized servers and a multiplayer component, it will still be freely available as a torrent before long. On the other hand, if you do have centralized servers you have a much stronger line of defense preventing consumers from acquiring your product without paying. In this way centralized servers hold an indirect value during the lifespan of a game, and even their sunsetting can be valuable to game creators as I will illustrate. It's also important to note that, although I've gotten a lot of responses to the effect of "server code is worthless anyway", it can absolutely hold an innate value as well and should not be treated any differently under the law to client-side source code.

As a society we accept artificial scarcity as a legitimate business practice and the software industry as a legitimate industry. If you purchase Adobe Photoshop you accept that, although you own the binary for the software on your computer, you will not legally be able to run the software after a period of time. You may be someone who circumvents this illegally, but none of you in this movement are actively campaigning to make circumventing this legal. The reason for being locked out of the software after a period of nonpayment is not because the servers cost too much money for Adobe to run, it is simply planned obsolescence as a business plan. If you are unable to run your current copy of Adobe Photoshop, you will be more likely to purchase a future copy of the software, and Adobe is counting on that. This is not a business plan that SKG seeks to make illegal. However you feel about this business plan is incidental to your stance on SKG.

Now, in order for games to be considered analogous to Adobe Photoshop in this way, the ability of the game creators to sunset game servers after some arbitrary period of time must be clearly laid out in the terms of service. Which it is.

it's easy to bemoan software business models. As I've established, the whole software industry is built on shaky foundations, adversarial relationships between consumer and developer are part and parcel for the industry, and just about nobody has their hands clean. However, there is nothing distinct separating the "NBA 2K" business model from the "Adobe Photoshop" business model. If you are an an anarcho-capitalist or a communist, then you are likely opposed to both practices. If you are an SKG supporter, then you are childishly choosing to attack one while burying your head in the sand for the other.
 
I'm confused, where is the scam if you tell people how long their product will be available? (Nobody would do this.,because nobody is going to buy a game with an expiration date on the box, like Ross said in that video)
Putting a label on the box telling people that your product is deliberately made shittier doesn't make the product less shitty.
Who cares if it says on the box that the creator of the product wants to fuck you over?
How about punishing people who try to fuck you over instead?
Selling software that deliberately bricks should be punished with prison time.
Holding a position that is extremely tilted towards you instead of a meek one that seeks compromise from the start is the better option.
The reason software costs money is solely due to artificial scarcity. It costs just about nothing to deliver the binaries to consumers. Development costs must be recuperated through placing an artificial wall between your product and its prospective buyers. In the world of gaming this can also be achieved by a few ways. One way is by giving a 30% cut of your profits to a third-party company called Valve and counting on the likelihood that an irrational subset of consumers will consciously choose to purchase your game on their platform rather than torrenting it for free. This seems to be the solution that gamers are loudly clamoring for, and it's the best and easiest solution for smaller developers despite forcing you to pay a massive, massive amount of money to a corporation that did not work on your game at all. And if your game does not have secure centralized servers and a multiplayer component, it will still be freely available as a torrent before long. On the other hand, if you do have centralized servers you have a much stronger line of defense preventing consumers from acquiring your product without paying. In this way centralized servers hold an indirect value during the lifespan of a game, and even their sunsetting can be valuable to game creators as I will illustrate. It's also important to note that, although I've gotten a lot of responses to the effect of "server code is worthless anyway", it can absolutely hold an innate value as well and should not be treated any differently under the law to client-side source code.
Completely retarded nonsense that has been disproven again and again. Pirates don't magically start buying your game just because it's not available to pirate, that simply never happens at all.

If you want more player make a better game and have a better service.
As a society we accept artificial scarcity as a legitimate business practice and the software industry as a legitimate industry. If you purchase Adobe Photoshop you accept that, although you own the binary for the software on your computer, you will not legally be able to run the software after a period of time. You may be someone who circumvents this illegally, but none of you in this movement are actively campaigning to make circumventing this legal. The reason for being locked out of the software after a period of nonpayment is not because the servers cost too much money for Adobe to run, it is simply planned obsolescence as a business plan. If you are unable to run your current copy of Adobe Photoshop, you will be more likely to purchase a future copy of the software, and Adobe is counting on that. This is not a business plan that SKG seeks to make illegal. However you feel about this business plan is incidental to your stance on SKG.
"It is what it is" -Goon response
This might shock you but SKG is about changing the current state of affairs.
If you are an SKG supporter, then you are childishly choosing to attack one while burying your head in the sand for the other.
As stated before, someone who built an artificial expiration date into a product that doesn't need it should be publicly flogged.
 
Putting a label on the box telling people that your product is deliberately made shittier doesn't make the product less shitty.
Who cares if it says on the box that the creator of the product wants to fuck you over?
How about punishing people who try to fuck you over instead?
Selling software that deliberately bricks should be punished with prison time.
Holding a position that is extremely tilted towards you instead of a meek one that seeks compromise from the start is the better option.
Yeah, you know what, you're just totally right.
 
Just like Thor you do not understand that the legislation does not require people to host their game forever, only to hand over the ability for others to host it themselves. Fuck, can anyone opposing this read?
And just like balding, lisping faggot video-man you do not understand that forcing companies to allow fan hosting limits their ability to force upgrades in multiplayer games, which in turn negatively impacts their ability to hit minimum viable populations for ongoing official support. It absolutely does burden GaaS games, which is why GaaS players do not like it. Ubisoft birthed a turd with online check-ins for singleplayer titles but you're trying to sneak one through making it apply to all games. The correct answer is and always has been "Don't like? Don't buy." And, indeed, single player forced online in AAA titles has largely died because of high profile failures like Phenix Rising, Shadow of War, Sim Shitty and Diablo III.
 
And just like balding, lisping faggot video-man you do not understand that forcing companies to allow fan hosting limits their ability to force upgrades in multiplayer games, which in turn negatively impacts their ability to hit minimum viable populations for ongoing official support.
>End of life plan<
All the upgrades in multiplayer games the devs push on their games they stopped supporting.
How can gamers keep gaming if those disappear?
Are you dense?
The correct answer is and always has been "Don't like? Don't buy."
I will rather got with "Don't like it use the government to regulate it" instead of some libertarian brain rotten meme.
 
>End of life plan<
All the upgrades in multiplayer games the devs push on their games they stopped supporting.
How can gamers keep gaming if those disappear?
Are you dense?

I will rather got with "Don't like it use the government to regulate it" instead of some libertarian brain rotten meme.
"Don't like it use the government to regulate it," is the death of Kiwifarms if it ever comes down to it. You ask me if I'm dense but aren't smart enough to figure out that soon enough government regulations will be coming for whatever you like too. We don't need more government regulations, we need less. Get that shit out of our lives.
 
"Don't like it use the government to regulate it," is the death of Kiwifarms if it ever comes down to it.
Libertarianism really is sad to witness, it's worse than Alzheimer's.
Josh literally has used the power of the government to help him in the battle for his site.
You ask me if I'm dense but aren't smart enough to figure out that soon enough government regulations will be coming for whatever you like too.
>Help lobbying groups are using the government to stomp on my neck!
>Heck I would never ever use the government myself, that would be rude.

We don't need more government regulations, we need less. Get that shit out of our lives.
There is no "We" in an anatomized individual.
 
Libertarianism really is sad to witness, it's worse than Alzheimer's.
Josh literally has used the power of the government to help him in the battle for his site.

>Help lobbying groups are using the government to stomp on my neck!
>Heck I would never ever use the government myself, that would be rude.


There is no "We" in an anatomized individual.
If you have no ideology to guide you, in short time you'll be the slave of someone who does.
 
"Don't like it use the government to regulate it," is the death of Kiwifarms if it ever comes down to it. You ask me if I'm dense but aren't smart enough to figure out that soon enough government regulations will be coming for whatever you like too. We don't need more government regulations, we need less. Get that shit out of our lives.
Companies are already using government legislation to fuck us over with insane copyright laws, dismantling of fair use, regulations aimed at kneecapping startups.
The consumer using the government to get some protection from predatory practices is not evil or insane. It's why warranty laws exist, if not companies would sell you broken products and tell you to go fuck yourself
And if your game does not have secure centralized servers and a multiplayer component, it will still be freely available as a torrent before long. On the other hand, if you do have centralized servers you have a much stronger line of defense preventing consumers from acquiring your product without paying. In this way centralized servers hold an indirect value during the lifespan of a game, and even their sunsetting can be valuable to game creators as I will illustrate. It's also important to note that, although I've gotten a lot of responses to the effect of "server code is worthless anyway", it can absolutely hold an innate value as well and should not be treated any differently under the law to client-side source code.
Stop Killing Games isn't asking for the game to be surrendered to the public upon release. It's for a end of life plan to exist so the game doesn't vanish into the void once the plug is pulled. Game companies get to keep their centralized server to keep the pirates out up until they decide to abandon the game.
All the arguments to fight against Stop killing Games boil down to corporate greed.

1: Having a end of life plan means a unknown but likely miniscule amount of customers will wait until the game is abandoned by the publisher so they can simply play it for free decades after everyone else has played it.

2: Game devs and publishers can't just kill off Shitfuck the game to force you to buy Shitfuck 2: The quest for more money.

3: End of life plan means the FOMO is diminished and there will be less profits from preying upon weak willed adults and children.

None of these practices existed in the golden era of gaming. And I don't buy the idea that we have to suffer the product we paid for being taken from us because it might cut away a certain percentage of their profits earned through exploitative behavior
 
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