Greer v. Moon, No. 20-cv-00647 (D. Utah Sep. 16, 2020)

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When will the Judge issue a ruling regarding the Motion to Dismiss?

  • This Month

    Votes: 67 15.3%
  • Next Month

    Votes: 52 11.9%
  • This Year

    Votes: 71 16.2%
  • Next Year

    Votes: 146 33.4%
  • Whenever he issues an update to the sanctions

    Votes: 101 23.1%

  • Total voters
    437
I decided to ask Grok. I think you may be correct. Even the AI gets the basic fact patterns of the case wrong. Disturbingly, Grok thinks the precedent of the case is "Significant".

There's a good chance that AI has already ingested the briefs filed with the Supreme Court that place significance on this and is claiming that the case is significant because other people seem to think it is. Human lawyers overstating the importance of something is hardly unusual. They're mindless parrots and seem highly prone to the wiki citogenesis problem on a much faster scale.

Point is the questioner isn’t just some hourly paper pusher. They know their shit, including all the ways dickheads like Russ think they can evade compliance.

Didn't DSP basically skate through his or at least somehow manage to come out largely unscathed? Greer might have some kind of similar lolcow plot armor because him pulling both a district and magistrate judge that let him carry on like this for years is one hell of a draw.
 
Didn't DSP basically skate through his or at least somehow manage to come out largely unscathed? Greer might have some kind of similar lolcow plot armor because him pulling both a district and magistrate judge that let him carry on like this for years is one hell of a draw.
DSP filed for bankruptcy right before Covid, which in addition to him filing for the first time definitely led to way less scrutiny on his bullshit filing.
 
He and his wife failed to uphold the agreement they signed and yes, blew off the debtor’s exam to take their chances in court.
Pat seemed to think, midway through the payment agreement process, that he could still appeal the judgment and refused to pay. Like Russ, he thought if he can just EXPLAIGHN to the judge about the actions of the offending party, then the judge will reverse it.
 
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Didn't DSP basically skate through his or at least somehow manage to come out largely unscathed? Greer might have some kind of similar lolcow plot armor because him pulling both a district and magistrate judge that let him carry on like this for years is one hell of a draw.
DSP filed for bankruptcy right before Covid, which in addition to him filing for the first time definitely led to way less scrutiny on his bullshit filing.
DSP's blatant perjury aside, he still owed all his back taxes post-bankruptcy because they are non-dischargable under practically all circumstances. He didn't even try arguing he should be allowed to discharge them, all the lies in his case revolved around his artificially deflated income. Court ordered fines and penalties are in the same boat, Shitlips would not be allowed to discharge them and Null is definitely willing to intervene and object if he tried.
 
The SCoTUS needs to unclench and realize that small variations in formatting isn't going to get anyone killed.
I have to disagree Taking things seriously give them credibility/legitimacy and is something you need to do if you want other people to take you seriously. If SCOTUS acted like they didn't give a fuck then people would stop caring about their decisions. We've had presidents in the past that basically told SCOTUS to fuck off and enforce their own rulings before so it's not as outlandish as you might think.

I expect the response would be something like "but does the formatting really matter?" and it is a small thing but legitimacy usually gets chipped away slowly if you're not vigilant. Plus the formatting is a good low pass filter. It filters out our magical star buddy for instance.

How would an investor being "sick" interfere with a business deal? Unless someone is literally dying, sickness wouldn't stop most businessmen from participating in a deal they are serious about.
They got sick of talking to mush mouth, duh.
 
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I have to disagree Taking things seriously give them credibility/legitimacy and is something you need to do if you want other people to take you seriously. If SCOTUS acted like they didn't give a fuck then people would stop caring about their decisions.

If small formatting variations is enough to impugn the legitimacy of a judicial body, even in the smallest way, one has to question it's integrity and legitimacy to begin with. Institutions with integrity and legitimacy can weather the greatest of storms and come out the other side stronger than before. Not to mention, them enforcing the use of a particular company so things are just so, besides endorsing a de facto monopoly if you are required to use them, at great expense really calls into question the SCoTUS's commitment to equitable access to the courts.
 
DSP filed for bankruptcy right before Covid, which in addition to him filing for the first time definitely led to way less scrutiny on his bullshit filing.
DSP's blatant perjury aside, he still owed all his back taxes post-bankruptcy because they are non-dischargable under practically all circumstances. He didn't even try arguing he should be allowed to discharge them, all the lies in his case revolved around his artificially deflated income. Court ordered fines and penalties are in the same boat, Shitlips would not be allowed to discharge them and Null is definitely willing to intervene and object if he tried.
DSP hides his expenses and income through a very well known accounting term called "Being a fucking retard" and he wasn't really suing anyone or pissing off the government. He got lucky with which debts he was discharging since those debts were already written off and probably sold to others a few times. Russtard is in a completely different position
 
I decided to ask Grok. I think you may be correct. Even the AI gets the basic fact patterns of the case wrong. Disturbingly, Grok thinks the precedent of the case is "Significant".
Artificial Intelligence is not match to the Internet's natural stupidity.
Significance is a matter of opinion, and I reckon it gobbles up just about every poorly informed and half-witted opinion it can find.

For comparison, I've instructed ChatGPT to make it's conclusions on the legal merits of the case, based solely on the court docket and the 10th Circuit decision.
Sticking strictly to that seems to produce a much more realistic appraisal of the case.


⚖️ Summary of Legal Merit

✅ Contributory Copyright Infringement

  • Merit: Substantial at the pleading stage.
  • The Tenth Circuit reversed the district court's dismissal, holding that Greer plausibly alleged that Joshua Moon, operator of Kiwi Farms, knowingly encouraged or materially contributed to copyright infringement by users. Notably, Greer alleged Moon reposted Greer's takedown notices, mocked them publicly, and refused removal.
  • Current status: Remanded for discovery and potential trial. The claim now moves forward on firm legal footing.

❌ Electronic Communications Harassment

  • Merit: None.
  • Greer brought this claim under Utah Code § 76-9-201, but the statute provides no private right of action. The court dismissed it with prejudice.
  • Assessment: The claim was clearly outside the law and should not have been filed.

❌ False Light / Defamation

  • Merit: None due to statutory immunity.
  • These claims were dismissed under Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, which provides immunity to website operators for third-party content. Moon, as a service provider, was not legally responsible for the speech of others.
  • Assessment: These claims contradict well-established federal immunity law.

❌ Procedural Conduct (Discovery, Sanctions, Motions)

  • Merit: Poor procedural behavior by plaintiff.
  • The court sanctioned Greer for failing to disclose key evidence and witnesses and for repeatedly delaying discovery. His noncompliance was described as willful and unjustified, leading to monetary sanctions and court orders compelling discovery.
  • Multiple motions—seeking stays, challenging venue, and resisting sanctions—were routinely denied and often deemed meritless or procedurally flawed.

🚩 Indicators of Frivolous Litigation

While Greer’s contributory copyright claim has some real merit, several aspects of the broader litigation raise concerns:

📍 Filing Unwinnable Claims

  • The harassment and defamation claims had no legal basis from the outset (e.g., invoking a criminal statute with no private cause of action, ignoring CDA § 230).
  • This suggests either a misunderstanding of basic legal doctrine or a willingness to use litigation to harass or retaliate.

📍 Procedural Misuse

  • Greer was sanctioned for discovery misconduct, including failing to disclose key evidence.
  • He filed repetitive motions, including several to stay proceedings, all of which were denied, and which delayed litigation without advancing new arguments.

📍 Tactical Litigation Behavior

  • His legal filings often attempted to relitigate already-decided issues or sought to relitigate matters unrelated to the one surviving claim.
  • Courts found no substantial basis in his procedural complaints, reinforcing a pattern of strategic obstruction rather than diligent prosecution of valid claims.

🧾 Final Assessment

CategoryEvaluation
Substantive Legal ClaimsOne valid (copyright), others meritless
Procedural ConductRepeatedly deficient, some willfully improper
Signs of FrivolousnessYes, for non-copyright claims and conduct
Overall Litigation MeritMixed: One claim justifies suit, others do not

Greer’s lawsuit is partially meritorious—his contributory copyright infringement claim survives appellate scrutiny and has a plausible factual basis. However, the remaining claims were legally groundless and dismissed with prejudice. His procedural behavior, characterized by noncompliance, excessive motions, and sanctioned conduct, further detracts from the integrity of the litigation.


Therefore: While this is not a wholly frivolous lawsuit due to the one viable claim, much of the litigation—both in content and conduct—bears hallmarks of frivolous or vexatious use of the courts, warranting critical scrutiny going forward.
 
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What are the chances magi-chan issues a stay pending the US supreme court making a decision thus adding 2 more years to this case?
Zero. Just citing this case does not mean anything about it is under review by SCOTUS. The cases its being cited in do not appear to have a question that would relate to this case directly.
 
Wouldn't it be trivial to train an ai model on all the formatting rules and just feed your filings into it and it spits it out with all the correct formatting? This sounds like the kind of stuff AI was made for.

Hell maybe even not ai; just a hard-coded program with all the rules. That couldn't be too hard, right? What so special about this printing press that couldn't be recreated with a simple program?
SCOTUS formatting includes saddle stitch binding

Screenshot_20250707_125901_Chrome.webp
 
If small formatting variations is enough to impugn the legitimacy of a judicial body, even in the smallest way, one has to question it's integrity and legitimacy to begin with.
It's always looked like a kind of shit-test to me.
I don't think they actually care of the specifics of the formatting anymore for any specific reason.
Today at least, they probably keep it as an equitable way to bar out crazies and pro se lolsuits.
 
It's always looked like a kind of shit-test to me.
I don't think they actually care of the specifics of the formatting anymore for any specific reason.
Today at least, they probably keep it as an equitable way to bar out crazies and pro se lolsuits.
The key is that it is required for Amicus Briefs (which are fancy forms of "inserting yourself" into a case that doesn't directly involve you).

As seen, they'll take handwritten petitions in some cases.
 
Let us assume that Greee gets a hypothetical investor to give him money... What are the odds that he just deposits that money into his personal account instead of one for business?
The extent to which Greer is unprepared to get into commercial real estate cannot be overstated. I could spend all day here going "very," and I would not represent the extent of the problem.

There are no do-overs in a conveyance because you "goofed." And the protections that exist to try to make real property a little more idiot-proof apply only to residential property. In commercial you're expected to know what you're doing.
 
so is the quarter million we raised gone or?
Every time you see a filing from Hardin on the docket, just assume that it cost $3k in funds due to all the work he has to do in the background on this case. I'm probably rounding down far too much and it might be better to estimate at $5k. Even then, Hardin is EXTREMELY affordable. I've been wondering when we need to do the next round of funding honestly.
Got a timestamp, or a clip? Hate to say it, but I don't enjoy watching MATI like I used to. Too much tranny-voice, I think.
I've been feeling much the same way my friend. I used to never miss and now... meh. :-(
I also dont think Null CAN use the legal defense fund for an Amicus Brief. That money is subject to strict legal requirements for Null and And his LLC. Doing an Amicus for a case involving Cox and Sony would be outside the scope of what that money can be used for.

I could be wrong though, and there is some wizardry that could make it work, but in general fucking around with IOLTA's is under the heading of "bad idea."

Plus Null said he wants the Amicus to be filed by USIPS, which means he definitely cannot use the legal fund money.
Since it's a generalized litigation fund, I don't see why it couldn't be used.
Null says he want to pay for it with membership subscriptions for USIPS
Oh, well there's why not. Makes sense.
Not that I'm expecting Hardin to work for free, obviously, but the chance to appear in front of the Supreme Court is pretty huge and worth something in and of itself, isn't it?
Yes, representing someone at the Supremes is huge and there are literally attorneys that will swarm you if you are Pro Se in order to represent you for free at SCOTUS if you get accepted for cert. But what is being proposed here is an Amicus brief - basically waving a flag at the court and saying "Hey justice dudes! I got some info about this case you might want to consider along with whatever the protagonist/antagonist want you to know!" And those you gotta pay the dues to get in through the door.
 
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