Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?


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That's actually pretty close to the setup I had in mind. Good work!
I was thinking more it goes uo to when she says ta da then it cuts to the example you originally shared then to tie back to my flap jack example throw in the classic "ooaaaahhaa!" Scream

Amendment: I love how this thread is split between discussing how to make one of her lame ass jokes better and how she sucks at writing serious drama for her characters.
 
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This explains a lot, actually. Like why they show Octavia's magic simmering and how Stolas is clutching the antidepressants despite Octavia never handing them to him in the finished scene.

I don't think she was blaming the pills for what happened. My interpretation is that she thinks "You needed antidepressants to get through the day. You must have been miserable with us! No wonder you chose him!" If anything she should have pointed out that he was prepared to leave her fatherless to save Blitzo.

When she asks if she was an obligation this may not be 100 percent fair to Stolas - his love for her is sincere, after all - there is a nugget of truth there at the same time. Stolas tells Stella (paraphrased), "The only reason I endured this marriage is already 17."
Oh yeah I agree. It's just there were so many things she could have brought up besides the antidepressants to make a better case; like the fact that she brought his affair during a father-daughter day to cheer her up, or that he is still having sex in their house with Blitzø. Or the fact thay he literally thought he was going to DIE for Blitzø and was just going to accept that without even thinking of his daughter until after he realized that wasn't going to be the case. She doesn't even know the full extent of how much her father doesn't think about her because she still thinks he was actively looking for her in the Seeing Stars episode when we as the audience know he was dicking around with Blitzø.
 
God i forgot how shit the hollywood/broadway people voices were in comparison to the newgrounds guys lmao. he doesn't even sound like an energetic old time radio announcer anymore.
This is a big gripe for me, Amir Talai either doesn't know how to do the Transatlantic accent or was directed to "lighten it up" but it really took away the "1930s radio host" feeling. Ed Bosco was 10/10 perfect for the role, he actually sounded like a showman.

 
..Yeah Viv just has some fucked up hate boner for Mr Rogers.
making Wrigglers 74 years old (or insinuating such) is a deliberate writing choice.

I'm sure if anyone points out the similarities Viv will say it's "on purpose!! shut up!!" but this whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth for whatever reason.
I personally headcanon the designer probably actually loved or cherished Mr. Rogers hence the character designer making him younger.
 

Blackishhh made a new video. He actually likes most of the shorts and most of problems come from the show itself instead of the actual shorts, and that if the shorts were the show it would probably be better. He also makes a good point in the last 10 minutes of the video which I think we can all agree on; Vivziepop idolize and fetishize her gay male relationships. And the fact that the audience for this show just is completely fine with that. Maybe in five or ten years in the future when Helluva Boss is over, people will look back on it and note how problematic Stolitz really was; just like they do with other media in the past.
 
The problem with the "bad people do bad things" argument isn't even that it's untrue. It's that it rings hollow when Blitzo spared the fag dads, killed their client and was portrayed as "heroic" for killing le ebil homophobe. If Blitzo is going to randomly change his morals on the fly and not get called on it then he's no better than Stolas.
That’s said well. That entire scene needed tard handling, a really amazing editor is a precious fuckin’ resource (if ever lucky enough to work with a great editor/ story teller.) The animation is sometimes a little better than the scripts in many instances with these two shows, particularly the egregious writing in HB. I like reading people’s ideas about it ITT because it covers & spans between theology to character design, creator’s being weird again, back to some orbiters, fans, & others too.

ETA:
Yeah, this is pretty fucked. There’s edgy, and then there’s mocking a tragedy that happened extremely recently, which already has polititards dancing on the graves of children. Just leaves a real bad taste in my mouth.
Yes, there’s edgy, & there’s 𝝽đ𝖌𝖊𝖑٥٢đ. Never go full lord. Or lordess, as the case may be.
 
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That’s said well. That entire scene needed tard handling, a really amazing editor is a precious fuckin’ resource (if ever lucky enough to work with a great editor/ story teller.) The animation is sometimes a little better than the scripts in many instances with these two shows, particularly the egregious writing in HB. I like reading people’s ideas about it ITT because it covers & spans between theology to character design, creator’s being weird again, back to some orbiters, fans, & others too.
I love this thread, there's kind of a "community within another community" in here.
As for the two sodomite fathers, it would be interesting to see if Blitzo did, but felt conflicted afterwards. "That could me and Stolas. What have I done?" - it would bring depth to his character and even make him further "lighter gray" as opposed to "darker gray".

Yet, it seems that in staying him with "pure innocent fags", the writers don't see how they write themselves into a corner. I really wish I could see Frank Wrigglers again, at least Loona see him have a TV show (if he is in hell), or he manages to reach her somehow (if he is in heaven). Think about it: he could be a guardian of sorts who explains to her that he had no idea creatures existed and even talk more with her about all that happened. I don't know, it feels like a wasted fucking concept!
Furthermore, can you imagine giving someone like this to Blitzo? Or Stella, even??? They will obviously say "UR WRONG" to the latter, but it would be interesting to have someone who would be willing to listen to her and perhaps act as a """therapist""". Not in a funny way, but see how perhaps she could let some grudges go for the betterment of herself and her daughter, but still hold into what is right for her. I don't know.

But alas, that is asking too much. The show's complexity would grow on a scale from 10 to 85.
 
Don’t know if this was posted yet but Lyle wrote the new short

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This dude is friends with every popular internet creator who has their own show/cartoon/game, he’s like an indie talent leech or something
 
https://bsky.app/profile/amirtalai.bsky.social/post/3ltgjbkvdv22p
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Ignoring the joke spoiler, is anyone really that surprised? It's pretty obvious Viv wanted at least a couple of more episodes, but A24 only gave her 8. Or most likely gave her 16 episodes but separated it into 2 seasons, as that is pretty much industry standard at this point.

His wording is a bit confusing though. Does he mean that the first episode of season 2 was supposed to be the season finale episode, or that things in the season 2 episode was supposed to be in the finale? I assume the latter since, even those it was rushed as hell, the season 1 finale felt like a finale episode.
 
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How about show some more nice people being killed, too, in place of the Stoliz faggot shit? Like, give IMP a mission only to kill one normal bunch of individuals, then the targets run away, and due to IMP being retarded, they go on a wild goose chase, get carried away in the heat of the moment, and start killing random innocent people.

Ah but you see, they know that if this happens, moments where you are suppose to LIKE our main characters will feel narratively hypocritical and not earned in the slightlest.

When you are going to have morally questionable protagonists, you must really be careful as to not risk them earning the ire of the reader/watcher/whatever because then the viewer will be actively rooting for them to fail at best or just stopping to watch at worst.
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..Yeah Viv just has some fucked up hate boner for Mr Rogers.
making Wrigglers 74 years old (or insinuating such) is a deliberate writing choice.

I'm sure if anyone points out the similarities Viv will say it's "on purpose!! shut up!!" but this whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth for whatever reason.

Because everyone knows that if there is someone that is something akin to a "sacred cow" in culture, that is Mr Rogers.

Many Gen Xers/early milennials grew up with him and there has never been any sort of dark twist about him, he truly was a pure soul from crib to coffin. Therefore, mockery towards him tends to be looked down upon by almost everyone and even when he was parodied, the jokes tended to be way tamer in comparison to other controversial figures in modern culture.

And even if its on purpose, does that change how she treated her Mr Rogers expy? No really.

So the idea that Viz is mocking him in such a spiteful way really feels like its crossing a line
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However, I have a feeling that because of this, Viv is going to bend over to her fans and reveal through even an Easter Egg that Mr. Wiggles is a child trafficker billionaire who stayed young because of Loopty Goopty's anti-aging machine. Like, bitch, grow a spine.

I think one of the reason that they worship the ugly and evil today is because doing otherwise would constantly remind these people of their own imperfections and they hate that.

The same way that the only sane man in an asylum would be the "crazy" one, the only moral man in a room of despicable people would be considered "distrustful" at best or "a threat" at worst.
That's the thing. There's plenty of sincere moments in HB. That's why the short feels so out of place. To give an example:
No jokes, just a serious moment where Stolas finally sees some consequences for his actions. We shit on Viv all the time for her melodramatic scenes, but the flip side of this is that serious moments are taken seriously.

I can see your point but understand my own was that sincerity is almost always reserved for the "main characters". Anyone else is either an asshole, selfish, cowardous, evil or just not very helpful. Its like you cant just literally have a good character thats good from the beginning to end because, at least according to them, its neither "realistic" (again, since fucking when is the Hellaverse realistic?) or funny (which once again falls down into the tonal inconsistency).

I think a good way to put it is the tonal dissonance/inconsistence. The series wants these characters who are entertaining assholes to have these emotional deep moments and a lot of it just doesnt feel natural/earned to me. See cartoons like Grim adventures of Billy and Mandy or Ed Edd n Eddy (actually, quite a few classic CN cartoons had the leads being kind of unlikable if not full on assholes) ...our leads are mostly douches and the series really embraces it by having them rarely having a win and hell, in the former case, our leads legit fucking die in the most child friendly way possible a few times (only for all to be reset next ep but I digress).

The Grim Trio and the Ed Boys arent to be rooted for, just entertained by their misadventures and this is the style I.M.P should have gone with. It took literally until the finale movie for Eddy to openly get some character development and for the trio get the mother of all wins at the end. H.B wants us to root for I.M.P but its mostly out of the fact that their enemies tend to be way worse than they are and it all feels a tad manipulative

Helluva Boss either should embrace its comical absurdity and work with it instead of making the drama ahead of everything.
 
No jokes, just a serious moment where Stolas finally sees some consequences for his actions. We shit on Viv all the time for her melodramatic scenes, but the flip side of this is that serious moments are taken seriously.
Because muh daddy issues and muh fujoshit fantasies.



After she states that Stolas chose Blitzø and Stolas tries to explain but fails, she should have said something along this line; "you've always chosen him over us, over me". And we as the audience would have to agree because we've seen that being the case before in previous episodes. This scene would also be a good parallel to Loo Loo Land and Seeing Stars where Stolas has tried to explain things but ultimately fails at it. But instead of Octavia accepting the non-explanations and forgiving her father, she doesn't this time.
Because she's tired of the bullshit and rightfully so. And besides, Stolas was so willing to die to Satan in place of Blitzo even after promising he'd be there for Octavia - RIGHT IN FRONT OF HER just like how he so casually talks about having sex with Blitzo and saying how people would want their bodies to her.


Maybe in five or ten years in the future when Helluva Boss is over, people will look back on it and note how problematic Stolitz really was; just like they do with other media in the past.
A lot of people are starting to see this more and more as the show progresses, fortunately.



that’s a shame because I got an idea where he finds her yaoi makes blitz realise he’s stereotype and that their relationship is not real or healthy
I don't think Blitzo would care. Based on Viv's writing, he'd go "suck my dick bitch-whore and I do whatever the fucking hell I goddamn want!" Viv has never super-directly showed her political agendas through the character's words.



Mr. Wiggles takes our chad Adam's place 💪.

Speaking of Adam, I'm laughing in my head now at how bad the retarded cast in Hazbin Hotel fucked up. Assuming God loved Adam so much, to the point of allowing him in Heaven regardless of commiting the original sin, I could imagine God being so pissed that one of his prominent children was hurt by the devil AGAIN - PERMANENTLY this time, and declaring a holy war or simply nuking Pentagram city the way he rained sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah solving the population problem of evil in Hell. Remember how it was like when Jesus Christ died on the cross? God was actually shown to have been grieving by tearing that cloth in the synagogue, which is considered his clothing - and that is a Jewish grieving practice. What more if it was Adam, his first and other most beloved creation? Like, despite everyone's shitty behavior, God still chooses to love us, despite what Adam and Eve have done to doom everyone, caused by Lucifer (I see this more as a metaphor, actually, for us choosing to do things, to discover, to harness our potential, but also messing up in the process and having to take responsibility for our choices, while God still loves us and forgives us in the end, as long as we still believe).
 
Mr. Wiggles takes our chad Adam's place 💪.

Speaking of Adam, I'm laughing in my head now at how bad the retarded cast in Hazbin Hotel fucked up. Assuming God loved Adam so much, to the point of allowing him in Heaven regardless of commiting the original sin, I could imagine God being so pissed that one of his prominent children was hurt by the devil AGAIN - PERMANENTLY this time, and declaring a holy war or simply nuking Pentagram city the way he rained sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah solving the population problem of evil in Hell. Remember how it was like when Jesus Christ died on the cross? God was actually shown to have been grieving by tearing that cloth in the synagogue, which is considered his clothing - and that is a Jewish grieving practice. What more if it was Adam, his first and other most beloved creation? Like, despite everyone's shitty behavior, God still chooses to love us, despite what Adam and Eve have done to doom everyone, caused by Lucifer (I see this more as a metaphor, actually, for us choosing to do things, to discover, to harness our potential, but also messing up in the process and having to take responsibility for our choices, while God still loves us and forgives us in the end, as long as we still believe).
Frank Wrigglers should be HB's Chaddam. Someone did a happy ending for him:

As for that second idea, that would be cool! But the show would have just two seasons, ha.
 
As for that second idea, that would be cool! But the show would have just two seasons, ha.
And that's because Viv wrote everything to be revealed in the 1st season right NOW, NOW, NOW. That idea could work maybe in later seasons.

Of course, Viv won't make it work, and she's just going to make YHWH, the literal omnipresent God, act like an average, basic, incel, straight, bigoted, "Christian/Tradcath" man because, again, straight, white, Christian male bad. Oddly enough, with her stereotypes and fetishization, she comes across as more bigoted than any white, straight, cis, male Christian. Actually, no. A lot of people have noticed. No one just wanted to listen.
 
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