DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

[User 204766]

based on everything people have said, i think the film just has been test screened to bits. i bet the film was probably an hour longer and things were allowed to breathe a lot more and all the characters were given more screentime. If i was WB, about a month from now i'd announce a "director's cut" but exclusively on their shitty streaming service.

people are loving the direction of this film. its so sincere and stuff like that.

If the new Superman box office tracking is anything to go by, he probably won't be given a chance/WB will politely show Gunn's cringey, self-absorbed ass the door. Also, there's been a bunch of blind celebrity gossip suggesting executives were pissed at Gunn since he ignored their suggestions & consultants. The executives did not feel confident in the film he delivered & Supergirl is apparently trash.

What are you talking about? the tracking has been surging, people were shocked at the amazing reviews, even the biggest "haters" on this site or Angry Joe at best go "i liked it overall" and while Lex is painted as evil and any media literacy shows this film to be "woke", general audiences are eating up everything Gunn gives them.

people online might groan about the quips but audiences love that, and the sincerity, this film will gross more than any other film featuring Superman. Thats not a very high bar as people might think, but especially overseas people are liking it a lot more than not.

trackers were mocking the fanboys for thinking this film might get an opening weekend of $175 million or a world opening weekend of $300m, but both aren't pie in the sky things anymore, $140/270 is looking good, which is crazy when weeks ago even Gunn was doing damage control saying "its fine if it doesn't even hit $700m" when thats now the floor for this film. people were expecting another sub-100 opening weekend because of the behind the scenes leaks and test screenings. but it really seems they managed to get it all together by the end.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

I just don't want Gunn to fuck up Lobo...

I don't see how. Lobo is already a comedic character played by Jason Momoa, a comedic actor. A Lobo movie would literally be a series of scenes where Lobo acts like a giant asshole to everyone and stuff explodes.

 

[el bandito loco]

Lex has always had interesting tastes, three of which are beings he created or influenced, Matrix, Hope and robot Lois.

His rampant perfectionism is never not hilarious in the weird things he gets up to, he’s like a Sim when you let them do their own thing after establishing their life. Oh, Lex is having the lab boys make a hot female android that just happens to look like prime Halle Berry? That’s just Tuesday at Lexcorp.

This is why he's my favorite supervillian. Lex Luthor is really the most interesting dude around. He's the smartest guy ever with unlimited resources so everything he does is insane but with a consistent logic. And it's like a funny normal guy logic. What would you do if you could do anything? Create the perfect woman. Go rule over a planet as their benevolent God. Go fuck around in other universes just to see what's over there.

I don't see how. Lobo is already a comedic character played by Jason Momoa, a comedic actor. A Lobo movie would literally be a series of scenes where Lobo acts like a giant asshole to everyone and stuff explodes.

Yeah, I love Lobo, but I sort of think a monkey could make a good faithful Lobo movie. It's basically impossible to fuck up unless they just make a movie set in the DC Universe called Lobo about some entirely other guy.

 

[Giga_Nigga_28]

The "Optimus is a war criminal" narrative comes from the Bayformers version executing defeated enemies with no remorse like Sentinel Prime at the end of DOTM.

Optimus was completely justified in everything he did in the Bayformers og trilogy (never watched the other two so who knows about them). The actual valid criticism of those films before faggy soft boi hopecore became The zoomer talking point is well...the writing is terrible and too much time was spent on the cringe humans to the detriment of the robots we paid money to see.

To stay on topic: Am I the only one who thinks that Superman in Superman II (the theatrical release) is an incredibly weak version of the character?

My impression from the 1st movie was that Clark was just fucking with Lois, like in the comics, and playing a character but in II he gets mad that she doesn't like Clark Kent despite the fact that as Clark he's a complete loser - on purpose- and even let her get robbed, nearly fall to her death. and almost drown to protect his identity...which he then reveals immediately afterwards in the lamest way possible. Compare it to I where he's completely in control in the robbery scene and the Doner cut where Lois legitimately outsmarts him.

Then he immediately quits being Superman despite II taking place immediately after I and gets his assed kicked by some bum because having powers is apparently the only thing that makes him Superman. He also executes a powerless Zod for good measure.

 

[TheHarbinger]

based on everything people have said, i think the film just has been test screened to bits.

There are loads of unfinished and rushed pieces of CGI in the film. Some of the lava and fire effects look like Playstation 2 era graphics. This movie just looks like a mess of nonsense. Unprofessional even. Maybe they sent out some wrong copies where the effects are pixelated and not every theater is getting them as that has happened before. But I can't imagine that this movie was heavily screened and no one pointed out the inconsistent lighting or special effects.

 

[Humble Architect]

This is why he's my favorite supervillian. Lex Luthor is really the most interesting dude around. He's the smartest guy ever with unlimited resources so everything he does is insane but with a consistent logic. And it's like a funny normal guy logic. What would you do if you could do anything? Create the perfect woman. Go rule over a planet as their benevolent God. Go fuck around in other universes just to see what's over there.

Lex’s internal logic is always the funniest thing, he’s so batshit insane but is convinced he’s the apex of the species. One of my favourites was his very American Psycho-killing of his physical trainer after Superman died, then he looks up and says, “Yeah, you’re really dead.” It was just so impulsive and out of the ordinary, pride had to be mended and he needed proof that “he” was gone.

Or when he called Joker a queer, like straight up said, “Batman isn’t gonna take you to prom.” It really sells him as the “big man” of supervillains, he’s the one they want to be, much like Supes is on a pedestal among the other heroes.

I always liked his trial from All-star, where everything is thrown at him and he’s just proud and smug, despite getting the death penalty.

 

[el bandito loco]

Lex’s internal logic is always the funniest thing, he’s so batshit insane but is convinced he’s the apex of the species. One of my favourites was his very American Psycho-killing of his physical trainer after Superman died, then he looks up and says, “Yeah, you’re really dead.” It was just so impulsive and out of the ordinary, pride had to be mended and he needed proof that “he” was gone.

Or when he called Joker a queer, like straight up said, “Batman isn’t gonna take you to prom.” It really sells him as the “big man” of supervillains, he’s the one they want to be, much like Supes is on a pedestal among the other heroes.

I always liked his trial from All-star, where everything is thrown at him and he’s just proud and smug, despite getting the death penalty.

the weird delusional self-importance is a lot of what makes him endearing, it's because to some extent, it is earned. but he's also entirely reckless and insane. I remember talking to my dad as a kid about why the fuck Lex Luthor who's such a smart guy, would possibly work with the Joker and the other Legion members and he basically was like, well because he's fuckin crazy too. He built a super armor, just to beat the shit out of a guy who never did anything besides help everybody.

The Luthor/Joker team is an entirely underrated and entertaining combination. I don't think even if whatever the story is sucked, ive ever disliked them sharing a panel. the combination of those two guys in a room is just hilarious. the most likely in any measurable sense, the smartest man alive, and with him a serial killer domestic terrorist who quite literally, does it all for a laugh. I always like when we get a legion, secrect society or Injustice gang thing, and Lex gets basically outsmarted by the Joker just by way of him being essentially unpredictable but he's always a necessary part of Luthor's plan.

Or when lex is trying to explain the plan to the other members all self serious and stoically and Joker is interrupting with various nonsense and sexual harassment and things of that nature and is basically like shut the fuck up we go in and do bad guy shit it's not that complicated. And lex can counter right back and be the only guy in the room to say something to shut the Joker the fuck up and make everyone else laugh at him.

 

[MirrorNoir]

Luthor only works with Joker let alone puts him in his villain groups, because Lex is genre savvy enough to know Joker will kill him if he doesn't invite him to the party. Infinite Crisis summed it up that you never shun Joker in your big plans for evil because he's crazy enough to burn your hideout to the ground after nerv gassing you to death.

 

[Overly Serious]

Lex and Joker is a great combination so long as you get a writer who understands both characters and doesn't change either one to make their ideas work.




For example, Luthor thinks of himself as the good guy and Joker thinks of himself as the victim. Both of their flaws right there on one page:


As an aside, people mentioned Lex creating his ideal girlfriend. It's interesting that his ideal girlfriend is one that challenges him and is simultaneously devoted and rebellious. Epitomised in Robot Lois, here in this same storyline killing a henchman and getting Joker to take the blame. Why does Joker cover for her? You could come up with a dozen reasons. If the Joker is going to have a motivation, I prefer it to be multiple choice.



So how political is the new Superman movie? It's been touched on here and there in people's comments but given all the pre-release interviews, I'd like to know how much a Conservative or Trump supporter is going to feel targeted going into this thing?

 

[Captain Syrup]

that show had for 3/4 of it. But it sucked there and it sucks here.

It wouldn’t have even mattered if they hadn’t immediately pussied out of making Jor-El sinister and retconned him into some half-assed AI ghost or whatever.

Then they have him possess John Glover, mostly because the show gave up trying to write for him. Then they swap him out for Julian Sands (RIP), who bless his heart never showed up in anything that cost more than a Motel 6 buffet. For context, even Lois & Clark managed to get David Warner. Just saying.

I've been watching all the DC animated Lex kissing Waller is what gave him such a visceral reaction. I asked him while laughing if it was because she's fat or she's black, and he went BOTH!

It’s always so funny to me that DC writers keep circling back to this idea that Lex Luthor has some repressed thing for Amanda Waller, like yeah sure, maybe they vibed once while black-bagging some Kryptonians, but Waller treats him with disdain, never reciprocates, and always looks shocked when this creepy bald cracker tries to make it a Dangerous Liasons situation.

 

[el bandito loco]

So how political is the new Superman movie? It's been touched on here and there in people's comments but given all the pre-release interviews, I'd like to know how much a Conservative or Trump supporter is going to feel targeted going into this thing?

It isn't really. Its just culture war fags on both side being culture war fags. You could argue lex is Elon but it's a stretch. The only political shit is that superman basically stops the Russia Ukraine conflict by threatening not Putin, then in the end of the movie

Spoiler: End

the justice queers actually finish what he started and hawkgirl kills fake putin

.

It wouldn’t have even mattered if they hadn’t immediately pussied out of making Jor-El sinister and retconned him into some half-assed AI ghost or whatever.

Then they have him possess John Glover, mostly because the show gave up trying to write for him. Then they swap him out for Julian Sands (RIP), who bless his heart never showed up in anything that cost more than a Motel 6 buffet. For context, even Lois & Clark managed to get David Warner. Just saying.

Preaching to the choir. I could write a book on the weird decisions and missed opportunities in smallville. Hell as a kid and teenager i did on the kryptonsite forums writing bitching posts once a week

 

[Overly Serious]

It isn't really. Its just culture war fags on both side being culture war fags. You could argue lex is Elon but it's a stretch. The only political shit is that superman basically stops the Russia Ukraine conflict by threatening not Putin, then in the end of the movie

Well now I'm on Lex's side!

So in the end does the film say Superman is right to go sticking his nose into complex International affairs or does it condone it?

Also, they made not-Ukraine a Muslim state, is that right?

 

[Captain Syrup]

The only political shit is that superman basically stops the Russia Ukraine conflict by threatening not Putin

I did laugh when Hawkgirl just yeets the clown-wig president out the window like it’s a Looney Tunes coup, complete with that busted kazoo screech she does mid-air. He hits the pavement like a sack of wet celery and I’m sitting there unsure if I’m supposed to be morally outraged or just horny.

And I guess the Justice Gang's whole deal is being the R-rated version of Clark: flipping people off, turning dudes into paste, Superman sees all this, gives a little head shake like, “Kids these days."

Preaching to the choir. I could write a book on the weird decisions and missed opportunities in smallville. Hell as a kid and teenager i did on the kryptonsite forums writing bitching posts once a week

Smallville fandom was one of the biggest wastes I’ve ever seen. A masterclass in copium. Every thread was just grown men gagging for a endless stream of "continuity" hurled like cheap fastballs.

The go-to advice was always “turn your brain off” or “crack open a beer and enjoy” like those phrases were some They Live mantra.

 

[el bandito loco]

So in the end does the film say Superman is right to go sticking his nose into complex International affairs or does it condone it?

Also, they made not-Ukraine a Muslim state, is that right?

For the first question, yeah basically the movie ends up being like, he's fucking superman, they're superheroes it's their job to save lives. I didnt think it was as much a political take, as a take on the role of the Justice League and Superman in the world.

To the second, unclear. sort of looks like that, they're all brown.

Smallville fandom was one of the biggest wastes of time I’ve ever seen. A masterclass is copium. Every thread was just guys begging an endless stream of continuity-drops hurled like cheap fastballs. The go-to advice was always “turn your brain off” or “crack open a beer and enjoy” like those phrases were some They Live mantra.

It was pretty much my first actively engaging with Fandom, and basically my last. I since have only interacted with a fandoms indirectly or as an observer.

Mainly because I was a kid and it introduced me to all the big things that make fandom interactions insufferable.

• Shipping wars. Including gay shipping people who insist every male character is actually gay with another one
• consoomers, who just like everything despite how terrible the quality may be
• complainers who just bitch about everything (was, still is me)
• RPG fags who pretend to be characters as a gimmick but eventually goes too far and those people really think 'that's literally me'
• Perverts, who find out youre 14 and try talking to you about sex shit. It's particularly easy to get almost groomed when youre on a superman forum about a show about teenage superman and you are, in fact a teenage boy from small-town farmville Kansas in real life. Lots of grown women and most likely men in disguise gave me a lot of headaches back then
• Head canon people, who spend more time trying to justify weird inconsistencies in the writing than the writers did on the whole season
• Grifters, who either make shitty fan products or try to write fan fiction and make money off of it.

and by the time I was 16 or so I went, yeah this shit is terrible. I hate almost all these dorks. It was Smallville and Star Wars EU circles and forums I was in and after a couple of years I basically saw what Tumblr would become before it had and noped the fuck out of interacting with anyone on that type of shit.

 

[BiggestKai]

I don't see how. Lobo is already a comedic character played by Jason Momoa, a comedic actor. A Lobo movie would literally be a series of scenes where Lobo acts like a giant asshole to everyone and stuff explodes.

He could be the zesty variant of Jason Momoa who was in the latest fast and furious movie.

Granted he was the most entertaining part of that shitshow, but personally I don't want to see Lobo be that effeminate.

 

[Captain Syrup]

It was pretty much my first actively engaging with Fandom, and basically my last. I since have only interacted with a fandoms indirectly or as an observer.

Yeah, totally. Not to be melodramatic, but it was like seeing how the sausage is made. And what it really taught me was that no TV show can survive the three-season mark. The moment the original guys (Loeb, Johns, whatever combo of comic book Dads you had) left every episode became this weird treadmill of reference soup.

That’s not to say the actors didn’t bring their A game, the guy who played Booster was fine. And apparently there was this whole internet-wide jackoff jamboree over the chick who played Zatanna, but I missed that one. But what really gets me is this grim insistence on making Justin Hartley a thing. Like, relentlessly. Unbelievable that he made it all the way to the finale. I felt like I was being gaslit, I had to check the show's title again.

 

[The Nothingness]

I don't see how. Lobo is already a comedic character played by Jason Momoa, a comedic actor. A Lobo movie would literally be a series of scenes where Lobo acts like a giant asshole to everyone and stuff explodes.

He could be the zesty variant of Jason Momoa who was in the latest fast and furious movie.

Granted he was the most entertaining part of that shitshow, but personally I don't want to see Lobo be that effeminate.

Too bad the Michael Bay Lobo movie never came about earlier than when it was first announced. Andrew Bryniarski could have reprised the role.

 

[Evil Peter Griffin]

I don't see how. Lobo is already a comedic character played by Jason Momoa, a comedic actor. A Lobo movie would literally be a series of scenes where Lobo acts like a giant asshole to everyone and stuff explodes.

So a Deadpool movie?

 

[el bandito loco]

So a Deadpool movie?

Lobo was the Deadpool of the 90s. Deadpool was around in the 90s but nobody gave a shit until the 2000s

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

I just saw the film and have thoughts so let's go ahead with the spoilers.

Spoiler: Lots of spoilers and sperging

I like the opening for the most part. It's the most Supermanish opening we get in any of these movies.

I LOVE the idea behind Ultraman. It's great. A team of Luthor's employees remotely controlling a bad guy led by Lex giving orders on how to fight based on him watching Superman's previous encounters is genius. It's absolutely something Lex Luthor would do. He uses a combination of human ingenuity and teamwork to bring down Superman. It's great. Hoult himself can be hit and miss sometimes, but overall, pretty good Luthor. There's a few scenes he misses the mark though but by the end you hate him enough that he earned the Lex Luthor name.

The scene where Lois Interviews Clark is where the movie absolutely fucking nosedives and flops around for 15 minutes on its own back. Holy shit James. What were you thinking? This scene drags on for so longggggg and it's just nothing but an exposition dump. I get what Gunn is trying to do, and yes, you're not supposed to agree with Clark. Lois makes good points. But this scene needed to be five minutes shorter. It stops the movie dead in its tracks to set up a 3rd act breakup that we neither saw nor care about. We don't need this to be so incredibly long. It's a conflict we didn't see, and sure it's important to the movie, but did nobody in editing say "You need to cut this down"? How long was this scene originally?

It picks back up afterwards. The fight with the monster is where Gunn really flexes his strengths. He puts a lot of thought into how Superman would fight. How he defends people, avoids letting the city get wrecked, etc. I particularly like a very brief shot of people in a coffee shop just going on about their day during all this chaos because they know Superman is there. I like how he flies up after the thing breathes fire into the building to make sure it's flames don't risk hurting anyone else. To me, that says volumes about how much Gunn understands Supes vs. someone like Snyder. Its night and day. I'm so tired of Superheroes not saving people and causing massive collateral damages.

Superman getting "cancelled" is dumb. I hate it. I don't like it. I think it's going to age poorly in a few years. It's a dumb plot point but there is nothing I can say other than that. It's crucial to the plot and conflict but it's just not a very good plan. If you want to make the argument we're viewing this from Superman's perspective, yeah I guess it's passable. However, I just feel like other iterations of the character would care less and let their actions speak for them and would say so in the face of being publicly berated. The monkeys are dumber even if it's a one off joke. Thankfully this doesn't really remain the focus for too long.

Let's talk about Israel and Palestine. Or Russia/Ukraine, or whatever. The fact that other people saw different conflicts means James Gunn did at least a halfway passable effort of hiding his agenda. Personally, I saw it as Israel and Palestine and I think that's the easiest one to talk about. I don't like Palestine. However, I do know Superman. If you were to put Superman in the real world, there's no doubt he'd intervene and he'd probably side with Palestine. Superman is going to protect who he views as the oppressed against the oppressor. It's just part of his personality. It's also a major character flaw and is the the whole basis for Injustice. He's going to force on the world whatever his vision of peace is, regardless of whether he should or not. Which if there's a sequel, I hope James Gunn explores because it looks like he loads that gun with the brief moment with Rick Flag. I think however ham fisted this whole plot point is, in the future when we're outside of this particular political vacuum it will age just fine. Especially if sequels build upon the idea of metahumans interfering where they shouldn't. Personally, I think James Gunn played with fire and he shouldn't have, but for the most part he pulled it off.

My problem though...is with Jor-El and Lara. I don't really get what these movies problem is with burning one set of parents to the ground in favor of the other. Man of Steel BUTCHERS Jon and Martha and here we get Jorel and Lara being butchered. Really? Jorel and Lara wanted Superman to make a harem and make a new Krypton? Sure Jor-El isn't really a character, but FFS you didn't have to do this to get your point across. Just make the damn recording fake and made by Luthor. It's absolutely something he would do to personally attack him. You can still have your moments with Jon and Martha and Superman choosing them. The reality of the situation can just be that Jor-El and Lara love Clark and want him to serve the people of Earth, but they're dead and can't help him when he needs it. They don't know Earth and can't handle Earth problems and that's why Jon and Martha are so important and help him when they need it most. You can have your damn cake and eat it too. It really doesn't have to be one or the other. The way the Clark treats Jon and Martha before they get more involved in the movie also pisses me off. I just don't understand why it's so hard to get this aspect of his character right. This is the weakest part of the movie to me.

Brosnahan does a pretty good Lois. I like her banter with Clark and they have good chemistry. Jimmy Olson's role is fine. Corenswet does a good job. The Justice Gang doesn't annoy me as much as it did other people. I find Hawkgirl's screech thing weird though. The Engineer chick had some weird emphasis on her. I feel like in an earlier version of the script she had a more prominent role. Lex and her could've been a twisted mirror of Superman and Lois. Lex uses the woman he cares about as a tool for his ambition whereas Clark and Lois support each other. I wouldn't be surprised if interviews come out saying she originally had a bigger role that was cut down because the pieces are still there in the film. The theme song also was pretty good. The rock version of it didn't bother me as much. There was some good deep cut comic lore callbacks in there too. I'd be lying if I said Krypto didn't grow on me either. The ending with Kara-El showing up and referencing the red sun thing did get a laugh out of me.

The only other thing I'll say is that the flaws of this movie are the James Gunnisms. His sense of humor doesn't always work and clashes every now and again. His jokes don't always land and it's more of a detriment here. His tweets/interviews commenting about politics on this movie made everything worse. I wouldn't have made these lines in my head if he hadn't purposefully drawn my attention on them. It makes it hard to ignore. That being said, it's a James Gunn all the way through for better or worse. It has a lot of heart, and I think it's probably going to kick the shit out of Fantastic Four.