Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

[East_Clintwood]

But they really had to scramble to do this because to begin with most of the mages weren't very establishment. The largest organised bloc at first were Howling Dan Coyote's faction who were considered terrorists by the government (because they were). Other mages were pretty much going their own way as magic was new and there wasn't really any structured societal path for them. Plus, people who hear voices are never the easiest recruitment pool to begin with! When Sam starts hearing the Dog totem talk to him, it's not saying "focus more on meeting your deadlines".

Mostly this. Magic came back in 2012, but it wasn't until the late 2020s you started getting actual study of it at Universities and such and even then it was fairly niche until the late 2050's when the DIMR was founded. Then of course there's all the issues of trying to get various magical traditions to actually work together.

My feel is that Corps have always been a bit on the back foot with mages though have turned that around a bit by 2070 and you'll find plenty of corp-sponsored hermetic circles, etc.

Mostly this as well. While most corps had at least some wage mages they were rarely into magic as a major business. For the longest time, even amongst the AAAs there were only two real magical heavy hitters. The first was Aztechnology, which isn't surprising given Aztlan's heavy focus on magic, especially blood magic. Second was Mitsuhama who were into it as their first CEO made a concerted effort to recruit mages earlt.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Cyberpunk settings might be close to grimdark in how static the status quo is, but they're still living worlds. It's not like exploring a dungeon cut-off from the world for centuries. Enemies should adjust to your tactics if you lean too much on any given thing.

This is why I like some of Cyberpunk stuff over Shadowrun. Things like Trauma Team and Cyber Psycho Squad are logical extensions of the world they present. If cops have to deal with cybered out people going insane due to the lack of humanity/essence, they would figure out real quick ways of dealing with that threat.

This is also why I stan Eberron as a DnD setting. The existence of magic and monsters causes all kinds of issues the people of DnD worlds seem to ignore. Eberron at least acknowledges these things. eg. High security areas are often patrolled by people wearing lenses of true sight because in a setting with invisibility spells and shapeshifters, of course a kings bodyguard is going to make a token effort to do that.


An update on Mr Austic. I was talking to him today and he asked me if I was interested in RPGs. Of course I said I was, but this was a surprise because previously he didn't seem to know what Dungeon and Dragons was, and had never heard of cyberpunk as a concept. Now he's recruiting me into his friends game. No word on if I'm DM or player.

 

[The Ugly One]

As mentioned, every game has this. For 5e it's the druid that solves every encounter by turning into a t-rex. In practice, I've only known one guy do the whole "turn into a dinosaur" thing, but it was in PF2 and it was really cool. The player understood that it doesn't work in small spaces, or if a mage turns up (you inherit the bad int save iirc), or the adventure is a murder mystery. It was far from the campaign killer it was hyped to be, but I don't think that player would do that anyway.

In any RPG that you run, you need to work with the background assumption that anything the players can do is a known in the world. I'm hardly a Shadowrun expert, but if I was running the game, I would assume huge, wealthy corporation know what mages and bound spirits are. In the real world, think about ransomware as maybe somewhat equivalent to a mage. It was hot shit years ago when it was new, but guess what, everybody knows what it is now. There are now systems out that can recover you from a ransomware attack in minutes. They're very expensive, though. So if you're going to use ransomware as your main tool to rob a business, sure, you can likely grab a tidy sum from a small comic book store with six locations by pwning their customer data server, but you aren't going to take Amazon for all they've got. In fact, you're probably not going to take them for anything.

The point here is, sometimes when people are complaining an RPG is broken, what they have done is run the world as though any random script kiddie can pwn a Fortune 500 corporation and walk away with a billion dollars. Except, think about it, if megacorps in your Shadowrun game are that easy to rob, or if royal treasuries in D&D are that easy to loot, why do they have any money at all?

 

[LovisXVI]

Mostly this. Magic came back in 2012, but it wasn't until the late 2020s you started getting actual study of it at Universities and such and even then it was fairly niche until the late 2050's when the DIMR was founded. Then of course there's all the issues of trying to get various magical traditions to actually work together.


Mostly this. While most corps had at least some wage mages they were rarely into magic as a major business. For the longest time, even amongst the AAAs there were only two real magical heavy hitters. The first was Aztechnology, which isn't surprising given Aztlan's heavy focus on magic, especially blood magic. Second was Mitsuhama who were into it as their first CEO made a concerted effort to recruit mages earlt.

As I run my games almost exclusively during the 50's, this is very much the case. Makes basically everything magic cost like 10x more though.

 

[Martys_not_smarty]

As I run my games almost exclusively during the 50's, this is very much the case. Makes basically everything magic cost like 10x more though.

Same here, my cutoff date is right before the year of the comet, fuck the furfag shit that came with it and fuck otakus cause we soooooo needed another super special look at me flavor of the month.

 

[Overly Serious]

This is why I like some of Cyberpunk stuff over Shadowrun. Things like Trauma Team and Cyber Psycho Squad are logical extensions of the world they present.

Do you want the basic, gold, platinum or super-platinum DocWagon™ contract? All levels come with your biomonitor implant or wristband to bring one of DocWagon™'s city wide roving ambulances to your location (areas categorised as high-risk may not be covered at Basic level, please upgrade your contract or check our terms and conditions for an updated list of districts without coverage). I don't know what the cyber psycho squad are but Lone Star will shoot you if you look crazy (or they don't like you).

In any RPG that you run, you need to work with the background assumption that anything the players can do is a known in the world. I'm hardly a Shadowrun expert, but if I was running the game, I would assume huge, wealthy corporation know what mages and bound spirits are. In the real world, think about ransomware as maybe somewhat equivalent to a mage. It was hot shit years ago when it was new, but guess what, everybody knows what it is now. There are now systems out that can recover you from a ransomware attack in minutes. They're very expensive, though. So if you're going to use ransomware as your main tool to rob a business, sure, you can likely grab a tidy sum from a small comic book store with six locations by pwning their customer data server, but you aren't going to take Amazon for all they've got. In fact, you're probably not going to take them for anything.

Yeah, you've pretty much nailed it. There's some lag in that the megacorps have been blindsided on more than one occasion. Firstly scrambling to play catch-up with magicians. Sometimes technological like the Renraku shutdown. But they're big, they're powerful and they play hardball.

Magic is a little bit of a leveller because you can't control for when and where someone has the gift. So whilst a corp can ensure its employee's children are raised with appropriate skills, health care and be given high end implants, this giving them some elite agents, there's not much they can do to ensure they get a nice crop of mages. So they'll recruit like crazy, test for aptitude, and turn a blind eye to someone's previous background if they sign on the dotted line. But they can't stop some orphan kid from the barrens becoming a Rat shaman. Or that teenage girl from Manchester being resentful because she saw the corps cause the toxic pollution that wrecked her community growing up. But anything they can smooth away with money, PR or pardons, they'll do.

Same here, my cutoff date is right before the year of the comet, fuck the furfag shit that came with it and fuck otakus cause we soooooo needed another super special look at me flavor of the month.

I hate the Otaku stuff and the Technomancer stuff. Utterly antithetical to the magic/tech divide, imo, and I didn't like the rules for them either. I didn't like the Year of the Comet stuff either. I solve the problem by just glossing over those areas so that I can keep the elements of 2072 that I like, but they're two different ways of solving the same problem.

EDIT: @Judge Dredd If you want a comprehensive overview of the Shadowrun timeline up until just before 5th edition, try and get hold of the "Sixth World Almanac". I think it was one of the last things that came out for 4th and it covers all the major and minor events and will also give a very good feel for the setting. It's written in the popular style of being an in-universe book with occasional inserted comments from the runner community. It really brings the setting to life. If I ever run Shadowrun again, I think I'm going to have to have a Johnson who is a history nerd or conspiracy theorist as a vehicle to convey some of this material to the players.

 

[p1138]

Things like Trauma Team and Cyber Psycho Squad are logical extensions of the world they present. If cops have to deal with cybered out people going insane due to the lack of humanity/essence, they would figure out real quick ways of dealing with that threat.

@Overly Serious already mentioned DocWagon(which your characters and other characters in the world can pay a subscription for, the level of which will vary the response provided) But as far as a cyber psycho squad... yes shadowrun has equivalents, a lot of them at regional, national, and of course corporate levels.

https://shadowrun.fandom.com/wiki/Elite_Forces

And yeah that's Coca-Cola in that list alright


This is the same universe where the local zoo in seattle is at Fort Lewis, because they can handle and awakened animal in a zoo, and well..

https://shadowrun.fandom.com/wiki/Fort_Lewis

So they've got 2-3 agencies depending on exactly where you're at in the timeline, that can each deploy their own elite swat teams, nevermind the fact that it's also a military base and can thus respond with military force if needed on base or in the vicinity.

 

[Overly Serious]

@Overly Serious already mentioned DocWagon(which your characters and other characters in the world can pay a subscription for, the level of which will vary the response provided) But as far as a cyber psycho squad... yes shadowrun has equivalents, a lot of them at regional, national, and of course corporate levels.

https://shadowrun.fandom.com/wiki/Elite_Forces

And yeah that's Coca-Cola in that list alright
View attachment 7631052

This is the same universe where the local zoo in seattle is at Fort Lewis, because they can handle and awakened animal in a zoo, and well..

https://shadowrun.fandom.com/wiki/Fort_Lewis

So they've got 2-3 agencies depending on exactly where you're at in the timeline, that can each deploy their own elite swat teams, nevermind the fact that it's also a military base and can thus respond with military force if needed on base or in the vicinity.

Shadowrun had such immersive fiction. Some of it much less dramatic but making the history of the setting feel very real.



I have to semi-retract my comment about the Sixth World Almanac which the above shot is a tiny excerpt from. It's very, very good but it's a supplement to the core book's history. It doesn't go into the specifics of things like the Shiawase decisions, it's all in-universe commentary on these things and is filled with details. Like the United Kingdom requiring people with magical talent to register it with the government. "Oi, you got a loicence to be a mage?"

So great stuff, but not complete in and of itself as I remembered it.

 

[p1138]

Shadowrun had such immersive fiction. Some of it much less dramatic but making the history of the setting feel very real.

View attachment 7631154

I have to semi-retract my comment about the Sixth World Almanac which the above shot is a tiny excerpt from. It's very, very good but it's a supplement to the core book's history. It doesn't go into the specifics of things like the Shiawase decisions, it's all in-universe commentary on these things and is filled with details. Like the United Kingdom requiring people with magical talent to register it with the government. "Oi, you got a loicence to be a mage?"

So great stuff, but not complete in and of itself as I remembered it.

Yeah, shadowrun's everything is kind of spread out all over the place, but it's there and generally available, and of course these days you've got autists putting wiki pages together that are referenced quite well so you can figure out which page in what book something is in pretty easily.

Of course that's all in spite of the current state of the game, and frankly the whole industry these days.

 

[Overly Serious]

Yeah, shadowrun's everything is kind of spread out all over the place, but it's there and generally available, and of course these days you've got autists putting wiki pages together that are referenced quite well so you can figure out which page in what book something is in pretty easily.

Of course that's all in spite of the current state of the game, and frankly the whole industry these days.

I have everything I need in the 4th edition material. I looked at 5th and the rules weren't awful but they weren't an improvement. The things it attempted to fix were never something I actually found a problem. All I have heard of sixth are dark things...

Also, apropos to nothing, I just want to say one of the things I liked about magic was how a mage needed actual vision of the target, but it didn't have to be direct. So you could have a mirror set up at the corner of a corridor and cast a spell at someone you saw in it. But you couldn't cast a spell at someone through a screen. Not even smartgoggles if they worked through a total HUD system. And this led to one of the most hilarious pieces of corporate security, the Mage Sight goggles. Essentially a thick, modified optical cable that you could look through to target things 'remotely'. There was even an installed version which had the mirror / cable system prelaid like fucking Ethernet and your mage might be sitting in a secure little room somewhere casting spells on people through out the building. I never used that and sadly my players never set up some cunning arrangement of mirrors to assassinate someone with. Was reminded of them as this conversation caused me to pull the book down and flick through it.

Also, the best example of how smart / dangerous dragons are, has to be Dunklezahn negotiating a portion of the profits from his famous interview. Just awakened in a new era. Never seen a camera before, doesn't know what a microphone is. But his first thought is: "these humans want something. Identify what it is and get something out of it. Oh, they want to talk to me? How badly?"

 

[ZMOT]

since there was talk about twilight 2000 earlier, fanatical has a 1e bundle currently: https://www.fanatical.com/en/bundle/twilight-2000-classic-rpg-bundle
can't remember how pozzed mongoose is, but the price is hard to beat. redeemed via dtrgb. there's also one for DCC but I think those turned into faggots after current year.

I'm hardly a Shadowrun expert, but if I was running the game, I would assume huge, wealthy corporation know what mages and bound spirits are.

they do, and often are the ones into the real dirty shit that then trickles out (and it makes for good RPG material).
reason being corporate warfare is taken literal in shadowrun, so corporations are not only trying to fend off some runners going after some data or personnel, but other corporations and runners backed by said corps, while at the same time trying to get an advantage - which loops back to the real dirty shit. what helps is the big corps all being extraterritorial, so they're not even breaking any laws.
runners are usually the cannon-fodder and plausible deniability, and even if they succeed they tend to get fucked over. if there's a dragon involved you're probably fucked already.
it's a dystopia after all.

I'm coming into Shadowrun just now, and it's a similar mess. Seattle, Hong Kong, Berlin, Bug City, Super Tuesday, plus a whole timeline of events and status quo changes. And unlike, say, Call of Cthulhu where everything is self contained, or Eberron where the setting is static. It makes it seem like everyone has to know all of it. And that's before arguments over all 7(?) editions.

unless you try to play out some world-changing plot, none of that really matters. have enough grasp of the setting so it doesn't turn into blade-runner with magic, keep the stakes and scope small and simple - assuming of course your players are equally in the dark, otherwise you'll get a loresperg and/or someone trying to break your game (but then rule 0 still applies).
read the first novel, maybe the first trilogy, after that you should be fine if you're all newbies.

EDIT: since you were looking for oneshots and year zero, just check their website and grab a starter from one of their games from the usual places. not all of their games use it tho, one ring and dragonbane have their own systems but still worth looking into (one ring has a small hobbit campaign in the starter, haven't played dragonbane myself but heard enough good things so it's still on my list).

 

[LovisXVI]

can't remember how pozzed mongoose is

I don't remember seeing anything objectionable in the most recent edition of their Traveller rule set. They seem to be fine.

 

[Snekposter]

Without irony - he considers financing hits on anyone who targets the corp as good PR.

If I was the head of a corp in Shadowrun I'd do that, too. Having a "Fuck with us and you'll die" line item on budgets is a lovely way to convince people that other corporations are more deserving of being targeted.

And yeah that's Coca-Cola in that list alright

Yeah, and don't forget about Pepsi-Co's elite naval forces, either.

 

[East_Clintwood]

I don't know what the cyber psycho squad are but Lone Star will shoot you if you look crazy (or they don't like you).

In CP2020 too many augmentations causes cyberpsychosis. Psycho squads are teams designed to deal specifically with heavily chromed people who've gone batshit. Basically a SWAT team except everyone tends to be armed with large calibre armour piercing weapons.

All I have heard of sixth are dark things...

On paper I don't hate the idea behind their Edge based system, I actually think it could suit SR quite well. The problem, as it always is, is in the shitty half-assed, ham handed way it was originally written. I've heard that at least some of the rougher edges have been smoothed off with the later editions which incorporate the FAQs and erratas, and apparently the Augmentation equivalent book finally fixed the bullshit they did to cyberlimbs at least (which was my personal pet peeve) but frankly I just don't care enough to go back. Especially because the lore appears to be as shit as ever. They finally shook things up by having Spinrad Global make it to AAA only to kill off Johnny, then there's the whole bullshit with Damien Knight/Ares and then shit like vanishing army corps and physical paths to a fucking metaplane.

 

[LovisXVI]

If I was the head of a corp in Shadowrun I'd do that, too. Having a "Fuck with us and you'll die" line item on budgets is a lovely way to convince people that other corporations are more deserving of being targeted.

There is a reason that runners are often hesitant to do runs against Mitsuhama and SK. Zero-Zones and Great Dragon spite tend to make one consider alternative employment opportunities.

 

[Snekposter]

There is a reason that runners are often hesitant to do runs against Mitsuhama and SK. Zero-Zones and Great Dragon spite tend to make one consider alternative employment opportunities.

Yeah, MTC has a very sensible trespassing policy IMO.

 

[Judge Dredd]

As I run my games almost exclusively during the 50's, this is very much the case. Makes basically everything magic cost like 10x more though.

Now I want cyberpunk with 50s americana. ...Though I've basically just described Fallout.

dragonbane

I heard of that too. Supposedly a d20 roll under system with OSR lethality. I'm not sure why Free League keep putting duck people in their settings. One video claimed Donald Duck is extremely popular in Sweden. But that would be like every other British game having Mr Bean in it.

I don't know what the cyber psycho squad are but Lone Star will shoot you if you look crazy (or they don't like you).

In CP2020 too many augmentations causes cyberpsychosis. Psycho squads are teams designed to deal specifically with heavily chromed people who've gone batshit. Basically a SWAT team except everyone tends to be armed with large calibre armour piercing weapons.

From what I remember, I think they also had some brainwashed former psychos on the team. That was one interpretation of that original Cyberpunk trailer.


Remember a while ago when I had trouble finding dice?

Still having trouble finding dice that aren't £30 for a single set of unreadable plastic. Amazon I keep getting chinese sellers.


On a related subject. I saw a bunch of books "60 dry erase battlemaps!" and "24 dry erase dungeon tiles vol 3: Taverns!". Some of these from Pozzo or Kobold Press (usually themed around a specific book) are quite expensive, but the generic ones by no-name companies* seems to be quite cheap.

*Battle systems and Loke seem to be the two most common makes, with Battlesystems making a "cloth and neoprene" mats. It's not Chessex like @Ghostse and @Halbschwanz said, but it might be good?

 

[LovisXVI]

Still having trouble finding dice that aren't £30 for a single set of unreadable plastic. Amazon I keep getting chinese sellers

Chessex

 

[Ghostse]

On a related subject. I saw a bunch of books "60 dry erase battlemaps!" and "24 dry erase dungeon tiles vol 3: Taverns!". Some of these from Pozzo or Kobold Press (usually themed around a specific book) are quite expensive, but the generic ones by no-name companies* seems to be quite cheap.

*Battle systems and Loke seem to be the two most common makes, with Battlesystems making a "cloth and neoprene" mats. It's not Chessex like @Ghostse and @Halbschwanz said, but it might be good?

I'd question anything cloth; you're asking for stains and you can't really draw on it (well, you can do anything once...). Neoprene sounds good until you remember its squishy with is a recipe for divots.

Just shell out for the Chessex matt dude.

Speaking of.

Chessex

Second this. IF you're spending 30 damn SerfBux on dice they should at least be Game Science. Chessex dice are solid and you can buy them by the literal pound ~0.5Kg.

My current favorite dice are stone dice by a Chinese seller that went out of business/off amazon (WHY? Your product was actually good! I wanted more!) and some game science for when I need to roll more than one dice at a time, with two chessex sets in reserve for those 4d6 moments.

I also have (too many) Diehard Dice for show and I'll usually have a set on hand, but they're impractical. Just look and feel nice.

can't remember how pozzed mongoose is,

IIRC, they aren't pozzed in any special way. They are Br*t'sh and have all the issues related to that, but they don't go out of their way to pander to niggers/trannies/faggots.
I want to say they put some tranny nonsense in the latest Paranoia but don't quote me on that.

another dude accused me of being 'Woke' for 'believing a woman could be stronger than a man'

"On average, women are weaker than men" does equate to "no woman is stronger than a man"

 

[Judge Dredd]

Just shell out for the Chessex matt dude.

Can't find them. I'm guessing Chessex isn't a thing in the UK.