Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Ultraman Orb Dark said:
There's not much they can really do with the Klingons in SNW since Kirk deals with them only a few years later. It's possibly why the Gorn became the main enemy race for the show.
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Maybe they could do something original if, maybe I don't know, STOPPED BASING SHOWS BEFORE KIRK? NOBODY GIVES A SHIT ABOUT THE SHIT THAT HAPPEN BEFORE WE MEET THE ALIENS WE KNOW AND LOVE.

It was the same fucking problem with Enterprise. It's even worse because of the fucking anachronism where the fucking show looks better and the tech looks more high tech than time before Kirk. At least Enterprise tried their best to have aesthetics that look more based on current space exploration designs to make it feel more retro but BNW just looks like STD it's so duuuumb.

I mean it doesn't matter, Picard was based on the time we liked and it was still 90% garbage. Those writer couldn't write their way out of a paper bag. Fuck Alex Kurtzman so much.
 
Rabo 2: Electric Boogaloo said:
Maybe they could do something original if, maybe I don't know, STOPPED BASING SHOWS BEFORE KIRK?
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It’s funny you bring that up because I always think back to that WWLB documentary where poor Armin is shrinking into his chair in real time because the hogs keep stampeding toward TOS / TNG panels. And yeah obviously DS9 was serialized so it barely ran in syndication here in the States, so you get this weird over-representation of British guys in the doc talking about how they grew up watching it. (Same deal as Babylon 5: “cheers mate, glad somebody was watching innit” but you weren’t the target market.)

For 90% of the population Star Trek ends at Kirk and Picard.

Also, the showrunners constantly used "prequels" as a loophole to duck around Gene's Utopia so they could pander to the guns ‘n hooters crowd. It bombed every single time but they kept pulling that lever.
 
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Rabo 2: Electric Boogaloo said:
Maybe they could do something original if, maybe I don't know, STOPPED BASING SHOWS BEFORE KIRK? NOBODY GIVES A SHIT ABOUT THE SHIT THAT HAPPEN BEFORE WE MEET THE ALIENS WE KNOW AND LOVE.

It was the same fucking problem with Enterprise. It's even worse because of the fucking anachronism where the fucking show looks better and the tech looks more high tech than time before Kirk. At least Enterprise tried their best to have aesthetics that look more based on current space exploration designs to make it feel more retro but BNW just looks like STD it's so duuuumb.

I mean it doesn't matter, Picard was based on the time we liked and it was still 90% garbage. Those writer couldn't write their way out of a paper bag. Fuck Alex Kurtzman so much.
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Say what you will about Discovery, but they at least ditched the prequel aspect halfway through.
Captain Syrup said:
Also, the showrunners constantly used "prequels" as a loophole to duck around Gene's Utopia so they could pander to the guns ‘n’ Hooters crowd. It bombed every single time but they kept pulling that lever.
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PFM said:
Any of you guys have recommendations for some good TNG books?
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Do I need to sperg again or point to my earlier posts?

How can you klingon lovers not appreciate Kahless? It's a kickass book.

Captain Syrup said:
Notice how almost none of the ST books ever made it into the actual show. Everybody knows Thrawn, Mara Jade, Kyle Katarn. Doctor Who’s "wilderness years", same thing. (You could argue the show nosedived once they ran out of Doctor Who pulps to strip-mine, that's probably why Moffat looked like a genius compared to the guys who came after him.)
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oh.... someone missed the earlier days in this thread where we discovered Discovery and Picard were all ripping off parts from later novels.

Curzon Dax-sama said:
It takes something like 3 gigajoules or 1 ton of TNT to fully vaporise a human body. Imagine the smell. Imagine the heat. Imagine you getting drenched in the quickly cooling gaseous contents that turn into liquid condensates. Well, whoever was vaporised is dead, but at least he told everyone in a five meter radius to go fuck themselves.
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*furiously takes notes*

Hey Johnny Bravo said:
Jesus Christ, Denton. I'll post my greentexts in a different thread or something.
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just let me know where so I can keep up with my compilation.

Captain Syrup said:
It’s always been my impression that Starfleet soft-executed Janeway by wiping her memory and dropping her off in 2015 as a cook in a women’s minimum-security prison.
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She then worked her way from that to head of NTFS.

Judge Holden said:
That the writing/story team so utterly missed the fucking point of one of the most famous TOS episodes which was all about "boy howdy, these guys sure may look like irredeemably evil monsters but they are not just irredeemably evil monsters and treating them as such is both stupid and morally wrong" because they wanted to slap a recognisable name on a shitty xenomorph knockoff was a massive red flag that shit would continue to be every bit as unforgivably retarded and contemptuous of the source material as STD an lo and behold I find myself vindicated again.
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Exactly this! Thank you for expressing what had been bugging me about the problem with the Gorn, even after seeing defenses for it elsewhere.
 
Curzon Dax-sama said:
Oh yes, and it did jack, because it was shit already.
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It's hilarious that Secret Hideout sets the show on fire, pisses on it, then tells you to clap because they extinguished the problem they caused. Fans are supposed to be grateful when ENT finally quit the three-year-long “Temporal Cold War”. STD is somehow even more anticlimactic: they started with a prequel nobody wanted, then shove in time travel as a panic button, and it makes everything exponentially worse?? I don’t know how anyone can defend STD. It’s like arguing that getting mugged is good cardio.
 
Captain Syrup said:
It's hilarious that Secret Hideout sets the show on fire, pisses on it, then tells you to clap because they extinguished the problem they caused. Fans are supposed to be grateful when ENT finally quit the three-year-long “Temporal Cold War”. STD is somehow even more anticlimactic: they started with a prequel nobody wanted, then shove in time travel as a panic button, and it makes everything exponentially worse?? I don’t know how anyone can defend STD. It’s like arguing that getting mugged is good cardio.
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People who defend STD have STDs themselves. That, and they get money for it. There is no other rational explanation. Okay, granted, there could be a handful of people who genuinely like this shlock, but what that says is that thanks to corporate indoctrination people have lost a sense for consistency and objective beauty.
 
Curzon Dax-sama said:
People who defend STD have STDs themselves.
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It’s a “too big to fail" show, like Amazon’s Rings of Power.

My impression was the bulk of viewers were there for Lorca. Once he left, no one stayed. I’m still stunned they didn’t resurrect “real” Lorca. Apparently they were hell-bent on making Mirror Universe Captains a permanent thing. First Lorca, then Georgiou running Section 31. It must have been a top-down decision from someone very high up who just kept doubling down.

 
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Captain Syrup said:
It's hilarious that Secret Hideout sets the show on fire, pisses on it, then tells you to clap because they extinguished the problem they caused. Fans are supposed to be grateful when ENT finally quit the three-year-long “Temporal Cold War”. STD is somehow even more anticlimactic: they started with a prequel nobody wanted, then shove in time travel as a panic button, and it makes everything exponentially worse?? I don’t know how anyone can defend STD. It’s like arguing that getting mugged is good cardio.
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I'm surprised they didn't use the Temporal Cold War as an excuse to send Discovery into the future instead of Diet Skynet and Mama Burnham's Iron Man armor.
Curzon Dax-sama said:
People who defend STD have STDs themselves. That, and they get money for it. There is no other rational explanation. Okay, granted, there could be a handful of people who genuinely like this shlock, but what that says is that thanks to corporate indoctrination people have lost a sense for consistency and objective beauty.
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I mean... I like it, but that doesn't mean I like everything about it. I totally understand why this is one of the less popular Trek shows.

The show has solid buildup for certain plotlines (Lorca's true identity, the cause of the Burn, etc), but most of the time, the payoff is pretty weak.

In addition, while there are plotlines I genuinely like (Discovery getting trapped in the Mirror Universe, the spore creature torturing Tilly, rebuilding the Federation), there are plotlines I think are genuinely awful (fighting the Klingons when they were already defeated before the Mirror Universe arc, Spock's withdrawn personality being the result of a petty childhood argument, Saru making an Ensign his acting first officer).

It's a very middle of the road show for me, so while I'm willing to defend certain aspects, other parts I can't really say I like.
 
Captain Syrup said:
My impression was the bulk of viewers were there for Lorca. Once he left, no one stayed.
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That's true in my case, at least. I sticked around for the dude, because of the characters he made the most sense. But, of course, they had to pull the rug on that one by doing the "haha nope! he's from the space-hitler faction xD"-twist. They could and should have kept Lorca around as the halfway house of Kirk and Jellico he was. Give him severe PTSD or frustration over "i joined starfleet to explore shit, but i guess i only explored i'm pretty great at the killing shit-part of the equation".

After Lorca's gone it was just the "you vil watch burnham cry and you vil love it"-show. Every Trek-show had drama moments, some were good, some were bad or at least frustrating. But STD managed to take the bad and only the bad, turn it into shit, threw it at gigantic ventilators, but somehow hoped it would stick. Instead, it drowned the audience in emotional ass liquid.

Fuck STD, fuck Kurtzman, fuck everyone who was directly involved in it and fuck the corporate suits who greenlit it.
 
Captain Syrup said:
It’s a “too big to fail" show, like Amazon’s Rings of Power.

My impression was the bulk of viewers were there for Lorca. Once he left, no one stayed. I’m still stunned they didn’t resurrect “real” Lorca. Apparently they were hell-bent on making Mirror Universe Captains a permanent thing. First Lorca, then Georgiou running Section 31. It must have been a top-down decision from someone very high up who just kept doubling down.

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The issue is that the MU stuff doesn't work in a Kurtzman Trek framework.
People liked the Mirror Universe stories in classic Trek because it was the total opposite of the normal Trek universe, the MU characters solve their problems through violence instead of dialogue, they want power instead of knowledge. How can you differentiate "normal" Kurtzman Trek from their Mirror Universe counterparts? They all act the same.
Kurtzman and his monkeys also have that [current year] way of thinking that villains aren't villains, they can all have a redemption arc (unless the character is hwite).
 
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Miller said:
People liked the Mirror Universe stories in classic Trek because it was the total opposite of the normal Trek universe,
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Exactly. The DS9 MU episodes were shit, but the Enterprise and TOS episodes were really funny and gave the cast an opportunity to ham up characters who are usually pretty staid.

Miller said:
How can you differentiate "normal" Kurtzman Trek from their Mirror Universe counterparts? They all act the same.
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That's why the only good part of the Discovery MU was Tilly having to impersonate "Captain Killy".
 
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