TED Entertainment Inc. v. Alexandra Marwa Saber, Morgan Kamal Majed, and Kasey Caviness, California 2:25-cv-5564, 2:25-cv-5565,Missouri 4:25-cv-459 - Ethan Klein Suing three women and 10 redditors for Copyright Infringement.

[The Omni Cuckold]

Reddit helping moderators hiding their identity (PII) posted in an attempt to squash a completely legit subponea that aims at establishing the identity of people for the purpose of serving them with a lawsuit is an absolute own-goal and self-own of the highest caliber.

I have not seen what you are claiming established though - that it is specifically given in an attempt to squash a subponea, especially when the comment is about using the PII removal software specifically after Ethan doxes them. This is exactly what I meant by fan fiction. Where has it been specifically said this was offered by Reddit to help the mods not comply with the subpoena?

 

[Gobermental Supervisor]

I have not seen what you are claiming established though - that it is specifically given in an attempt to squash a subponea, especially when the comment is about using the PII removal software specifically after Ethan doxes them. This is exactly what I meant by fan fiction. Where has it been specifically said this was offered by Reddit to help the mods not comply with the subpoena?

You talk about fan fiction, but you can't even read.

Nobody is claiming the PII software has anything to do with removing PII that Reddit would be obligated to provide if the subpoena is not quashed. You have some weird fantasy about what "PII Removal Software" is.

It is 100% not software that allows moderators to wipe their own PII that is saved by Reddit from Reddit servers. (After Reddit was served with a subpoena, knowing that deleting that data would be a federal crime)
lmao

 

[The Omni Cuckold]

You talk about fan fiction, but you can't even read.

Nobody is claiming the PII software has anything to do with removing PII that Reddit would be obligated to provide if the subpoena is not quashed. You have some weird fantasy about what "PII Removal Software" is.

I can read. Where are you getting the "Reddit helping moderators hiding their identity (PII) posted in an attempt to squash a completely legit subponea that aims at establishing the identity of people for the purpose of serving them with a lawsuit is an absolute own-goal and self-own of the highest caliber." claim.

I absolutely never said anything about it being software that allows moderators to wipe their own PII that is saved by Reddit from Reddit servers

 

[Gobermental Supervisor]

I can read. Where are you getting the "Reddit helping moderators hiding their identity (PII) posted in an attempt to squash a completely legit subponea that aims at establishing the identity of people for the purpose of serving them with a lawsuit is an absolute own-goal and self-own of the highest caliber." claim.

That sentence sucks, so I will edit it for clarity.

They are admitting to a previously unknown fact, that Reddit provides Moderators with assistance in the form of free software subscriptions to wipe PII from the Internet (like Incogni or other services), in the same document in which they are trying to quash a subpoena.

They basically say "We would face so much harassment that the normal legal process should not apply to us and we should be immune from being sued", and their proof of this is "the platform we committed the illegal behavior on provided us with assistance to hide our identity before".

There was zero reason to mention ANY assistance by Reddit at all.

 

[anliteralidiot]

Where are you getting the "Reddit helping moderators hiding their identity (PII) posted in an attempt to squash a completely legit subponea that aims at establishing the identity of people for the purpose of serving them with a lawsuit is an absolute own-goal and self-own of the highest caliber." claim.

It's right there in the documents, that reddit offered them pii software.

 

[The Omni Cuckold]

Told you you can't read.

They are admitting to a previously unknown fact, that Reddit provides Moderators with assistance in the form of free software subscriptions to wipe PII from the Internet (like Incogni or other services), in the same document in which they are trying to quash a subpoena.

They basically say "We would face so much harassment that the normal legal process should not apply to us and we should be immune from being sued", and their proof of this is "the platform we committed the illegal behavior on provided us with assistance to hide our identity before".

There was zero reason to mention ANY assistance by Reddit at all.

These are separate things. And I am in no place arguing their lawyer or these mods should have brought this up. What I am saying is people are making implications from these statements that aren't backed up by information presented. And I'm not trying to argument what is really harassment or if it's just a lefty thing.

You clearly cannot read. The quote was "Reddit admins offered us free subscriptions to privacy software that would help remove our PII from the internet in the case we are doxxed and harassed by the outcome of these lawsuits."

This is not "the platform we committed the illegal behavior on provided us with assistance to hide our identity before" - this is them saying that if the outcome is that if Ethan and his lawyers receive the PII and then doxx these moderators, the privacy subscriptions (according to their quote) would help remove that resulting PII from the internet.

I am bring it up because this isn't some secret Reddit program and it has been offered to many others and I know of certain individuals not in any way to H3 snark who have receive this from Reddit.

 

[The Omni Cuckold]

It's right there in the documents, that reddit offered them pii software.

Yes, I read it. Not to squash the subpoenas. As they stated "remove our PII from the internet in the case we are doxxed and harassed by the outcome of these lawsuits - this implies in case of a dox, not to prevent one.

 

[Potentially Criminal]

I'd say it was their only chance to save their anonymity.

Their own declarations have greatly harmed their chances.

But the entire argument is basically: "We are accused to being participants in a copyright infringement case, but nobody should be able to hold us liable because we are scared!"

It is such a non-argument.

It is a non-starter but that's expected from redditors.

They would have been better off keeping their mouths shut and let Reddit do the work.

Would you consider "free" "PII removal software" real compensation if this is something they regularly give to a wide range of other moderators who tell Reddit admins they are harassed?

It wouldn't hold up under NLRB rulings, but it's clear they give benefits of decent value to their mods in exchange for their services.

I think a lot of people are just writing fan fiction about certain collusions that don't really exist.

Law is about framing issues and setting a narrative. This is one of those times where it can be critical.

It is certainly collusion....to what degree is unknown. There's no reason for Reddit to help these people unless they are benefitting from the help.

 

[Brain Problems]

I mean it when I say that I genuinely enjoy this thread and consider one of the top on the site in terms of pure popcorn value. I learn all about the US legal system, get to follow new and exciting ways the Eternal Redditor can fuck up, and watch Hassan orbiters dance to the tune of the Prime Jew.

It's like an autistic internet version of a John Grisham legal thriller.

 

[Gobermental Supervisor]

The response by Ethan and Hila is available. [EDIT: To the Motion to Quash by the Reddit Jannies)
I am reading the documents now. They are quiet lengthy.

My favorite part so far.


See attachment.

 

[Billy Bong]

That is a LOT of reading! These lawyers must be getting money hand over fist.

 

[Gobermental Supervisor]

That is a LOT of reading! These lawyers must be getting money hand over fist.

In the lawyer's declaration he states that he also does all DMCA work for Ethan.
So I'd say he is well employed by Ethan and Hila Klein alone.

I wonder if Ethan can ask for lawyer fees for work hours caused by this motion to quash when it eventually fails.

@Potentially Criminal There might a couple of interesting videos in those filings.

[EDIT] To avoid a double post,. I am putting this here after reading the filings. There is a lot of noise in there, because Ethan and Hila feel the need to defend themselves against all the bullshit the Redditors wrote in their filing. The underlying legal argument is pretty much summarized in these two paragraphs from the Opposition regarding the legal standard that should be applied.

"Some courts have adopted the following test: (1) “the party seeking the disclosure must demonstrate a prima facie case on the merits of its underlying, in this case, copyright claim;” and (2) “the Court balances the need for the discovery against the First Amendment interest at stake.” Cognosphere Pte. Ltd. v. X Corp., 2024 WL 4227594, *3 (N.D. Cal. Sept. 18, 2024); Baugher v. GoDaddy.com LLC, 2021 4942658, *3 (D. Ariz. Oct. 22, 2021) (same); In re DMCA § 512(h) Subpoena to Twitter, 608 F.Supp.3d 868, 876 (N.D. Cal. 2022) (same).

As this Court is well-aware, another court has rejected the balancing of the equities part of the inquiry because “it is not well suited for a copyright dispute” since “the First Amendment does not protect anonymous speech that infringes copyright.” In re DMCA Subpoena to Reddit, Inc., 441 F.Supp.3d 875, 882 (N.D. Cal. 2020). Rather, First Amendment considerations are adequately addressed examining “fair use in the context” of “whether there was a prima facie case of copyright infringement.” Id. at 883. Irrespective of which test applies, the Motion must be denied."

I believe their argument will prevail and the subpoena will stand. The legal standard is pretty clear from both those cases, and allowing people to avoid the legal process, if there is a legit case against them, by shutting down subpoena that aim to identify them, is frankly absurd.

 

[MrMM]

Does the judge sound pissed to you?

I don't think we have seen anything that would rise to the level of a "benchslap" (legal gossip terminology for a bitchslap that comes from a judge). The dumb stuff around redactions and whatever probably never even made it to the judge, just probably a career clerk being slightly annoyed at most.

They're hoping that by referencing ~le evil dox nazi harassment totally-not-big-chungus website~ the judge will act emotionally and protect their identities. It's pretty patent that's what's occurring, but it would be far more effective if they didn't surround it with hundreds of pages of nonsense.

I agree that is exactly what the snark mods are doing. I am less persuaded it will not be effective, given this is, for a federal (even magistrate) judge, a nonsense lawsuit and the judge is almost certainly outsourcing everything to a term clerk. And term clerks, especially for a magistrate (Judge Sallie Kim is a magistrate) who is more likely to get slightly (not to PL, but I have a lot of respect for my friends who clerked for federal magistrate judges, so I'm really trying hard to not shit on this here) lesser qualified term clerks than Article 3 judges, are therefore also more likely to get weirdo partisan recent law school grads who are probably, relative to normies, more likely to be leftists who consume Hasan or Hasan-adjacent content -- especially in NDCal.

Spoiler: PL Shit

I've had cases clearly fucked by dumbass clerks for Article 3 judges who couldn't be bothered to actually read the documents in NDCal. I don't have a lot of confidence things wont go to shit here because federal courts have real shit to deal with, not cases like these, that they can't even be bothered to spend time on.

I'm not a legal institutional elitist because I've worked with Yale, Harvard, etc. grads and most of the time they've been shockingly bad at actual lawyering, but it is interesting that the lawyer never attended a law school. California allows an alternative route to licensure, so it's not like she's not a real lawyer or anything.

I've worked with Yale/Harvard/Stanford JDs who are idiots, but most aren't in my experience (at least those that chose to be lawyers, rather than go politics, academia, etc). But I have never seen anyone who went to TTT law school that wasn't an idiot. I cannot imagine someone who foregoes law school (and has an ohio state undergrad in history pedigree) is much more impressive.

I've still got to read the opposition motion, but I hope H3's lawyers cut through the bullshit and called spades spades outright. It can be tempting to get in the weeds and the shit, but I prefer strategically to avoid that nonsense wherever possible (that wouldn't constitute a waiver -- and I don't think not responding to shit in a 500+ page declaration that wasn't in the motion qualifies).

 

[Gobermental Supervisor]

It can be tempting to get in the weeds and the shit, but I prefer strategically to avoid that nonsense wherever possible (that wouldn't constitute a waiver -- and I don't think not responding to shit in a 500+ page declaration that wasn't in the motion qualifies).

I think they limited themselves to narration that leads into showing they have a prima facie case, in order to fulfill BOTH standards used in the cited caselaw.

They might have gone a lot less on the Gaza shit, that was a bit too much in my opinion, but once again its a narration thing where they present themselves as the victims of harassment by the people who are now claiming to be afraid of harassment. Depending on the judge that might work as a matter of framing the issue.

 

[he who has thus come/gone]

I agree that is exactly what the snark mods are doing. I am less persuaded it will not be effective, given this is, for a federal (even magistrate) judge, a nonsense lawsuit and the judge is almost certainly outsourcing everything to a term clerk.

I don't think it's nonsense. I think there's a lot of nonsense included in the filings, but at it's core this is a very basic copyright suit that looks very, very bad for the defendants.

And term clerks, especially for a magistrate (Judge Sallie Kim is a magistrate) who is more likely to get slightly (not to PL, but I have a lot of respect for my friends who clerked for federal magistrate judges, so I'm really trying hard to not shit on this here) lesser qualified term clerks than Article 3 judges, are therefore also more likely to get weirdo partisan recent law school grads who are probably, relative to normies, more likely to be leftists who consume Hasan or Hasan-adjacent content -- especially in NDCal.

If you don't clerk for an Article III judge (or state supreme court judge, or a specialty Article I clerk in a specific few jurisdictions like bankruptcy in District of Delaware) you're not even a real law clerk.

But to be more serious, I actually have the opposite experience with magistrate clerks. Because they don't have to come from elite schools, they are not the common stock of elitist leftist Harvard/Yale/Stanford/etc. grads. It still depends a lot on the judge's preferences and the location—and Central District of California isn't great, politically—but I guarantee there are more moderate/conservative/non-leftist magistrate clerks than Article III clerks in CD California.

I've worked with Yale/Harvard/Stanford JDs who are idiots, but most aren't in my experience (at least those that chose to be lawyers, rather than go politics, academia, etc). But I have never seen anyone who went to TTT law school that wasn't an idiot. I cannot imagine someone who foregoes law school (and has an ohio state undergrad in history pedigree) is much more impressive.

I could tell you stories about the most retarded Yale and Harvard grads (including clerks for prestigious Article III judges!) I have ever seen. I'm talking shocking stuff produced by idiots who never had to ever receive a grade at Yale. The fetishization of these schools (and I'm not saying you're doing this) is amazing to me because I've seen what they produce. And I was not impressed.

Edit: I said central district because that's where the suit was filed. In northern district, where the attempt to block the subpoena is occurring, is definitely worse. But there's still a colorable case that's pretty obvious, even to retards in ND Cal.

 

[Gobermental Supervisor]

don't think it's nonsense. I think there's a lot of nonsense included in the filings, but at it's core this is a very basic copyright suit that looks very, very bad for the defendants.

I could be wrong, but I believe that statement is aimed at the action filed by the Redditors.
It is its very own separate proceeding.

 

[he who has thus come/gone]

I could be wrong, but I believe that statement is aimed at the action filed by the Redditors.
It is its very own separate proceeding.

I interpreted what he wrote as saying the redditors' filing is more likely to be effective than I think it will be. I don't think it will be effective because the strategy is drowned out by retarded sperging for hundreds and hundreds of pages. He thinks it will be effective because the clerks this is pawned off on will be sympathetic.

 

[MrMM]

I don't think it's nonsense. I think there's a lot of nonsense included in the filings, but at it's core this is a very basic copyright suit that looks very, very bad for the defendants.

The "nonsense" comment wasn't directed at the merits of this case. It was more of a broader commentary on how NDCal hosts an unending list of billion dollar companies and lawsuits that *matter* in a real sense, rather than this stupid shit that, realistically, wont have a damages case in the 5th percentile of most (non-§1983, another criticism of mine as-applied in reality) cases in the jurisdiction.

If I can't get an NDCal judge to actually read my papers between billion dollar companies, why should I expect one to read the papers on this case of obvious copyright infringement with a side of stupidity all around.

Spoiler: PL Shit again

If you don't clerk for an Article III judge (or state supreme court judge, or a specialty Article I clerk in a specific few jurisdictions like bankruptcy in District of Delaware) you're not even a real law clerk.

A former roommate is maybe going to make partner at a v20 this year after clerking for a magistrate out of law school. Can't hate the grind if executed correctly.

I could be wrong, but I believe that statement is aimed at the action filed by the Redditors.

Largely, yeah, this whole shit is nonsense. At brass tacks it's a clear cut copyright infringement case, with a pretty clear cut contributory case that is only getting paraded around in the shit because the snark mods are so fucking awful.

I interpreted what he wrote as saying the redditors' filing is more likely to be effective than I think it will be. I don't think it will be effective because the strategy is drowned out by retarded sperging for hundreds and hundreds of pages. He thinks it will be effective because the clerks this is pawned off on will be sympathetic.

I'm not saying it will be effective per se. I'm saying I'm worried because there's so much shit in the judicial system that it could be pawned off to some hamas-supporting retarded clerk who would be excited to fellate hasan's shock collar for a few asspats.

 

[he who has thus come/gone]

A former roommate is maybe going to make partner at a v20 this year after clerking for a magistrate out of law school. Can't hate the grind if executed correctly.

I have nothing against magistrate clerks. In fact, I think they do a lot more and it's a harder job than clerking for many district judges and definitely more difficult than court of appeals judges (no deadlines = lots of dilly dallying).

If I can't get an NDCal judge to actually read my papers between billion dollar companies, why should I expect one to read the papers on this case of obvious copyright infringement with a side of stupidity all around.

There's a reason I'd never step foot anywhere on the west coast. The whole place is irrevocably cursed. The district judges being awful is just one manifestation of that. I don't see the same where I've practiced. I'm sorry you have to even vicariously contact a disgusting state like California through legal filings.

 

[MrMM]

There's a reason I'd never step foot anywhere on the west coast. The whole place is irrevocably cursed.

And if lex jewthor loses (at the district court level, and maybe before the 9th circuit) his obviously meritorious case(s) because the west coast is overwhelmed by leftists who think hating jews is a core, if not dispositive, tenet to their political world-view, it's kind of his own fault (not that his former home in NYC is faring much better these days with the recent mayoral race).

Just as him co-hosting a podcast with Hasan was obviously a stupid mistake (even a coked/crashed-out Jordan Peterson called it out early), he has to face the mirror at some point and acknowledge that the people, politics, and geography he has surrounded himself with hates him, his culture, his genealogy, and also his children as a byproduct.

I do everything I can to limit my west coast patronage, but work sometimes demands it. I fear dark times are ahead as the journalist class affirmatively abandons objectivity in favor of their partisan-based takes to advance their causes (but also the journalists are the dumbest people you've ever met but they're credentialed after being nepo babies that went to Choate).

The real question is how long we have to wait for the judge to rule on this motion. I suspect many many months -- seems like a next summer thing. Rough as it is.