Legend of Zelda thread - Lorefags GTFO!

Sleazy Car Salesman said:
I'd still be interested even though I will 99% probably never use the information. I'm one of those weirdos that just finds strategy, game theory, and breaking down programming interesting for its own sake. And I think it would be neat to share it with everybody, honestly.
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I can start with a quick one since I have some downtime then. Most everything I know is for the 1.0 version of the game (i.e. not OoT3D).

I'll give out the backbone to many other glitches and strats which is the Infinite Sword Glitch. This is one that anybody can learn in a minute or two. Performed by (primarily, though there are other ways) interrupting your crouch stab with reading/talking, lifting an object, or navi text on c-Up. You'll need a shield to do it (which naturally makes a shield one of your most valuable items given how powerful ISG is), and you're aiming for around the point Link's arm is fully extended.

If you do it right, your sword will be glowing with a hitbox that's being drawn every frame (hence the Infinite). An interesting quirk about 1.0 is how crouch stab damage is handled. In 1.0, the damage is initialized to the same value and properties every time the Scene (the area you're in) is loaded via a screen transition. However, your crouch stab actually uses the damage and properties of the most recent sword-like attack Link performed. Do a jump strike, get jump strike damage. Swing the hammer, get hammer properties. Since the main way to activate ISG is with a crouch stab, your held weapon becomes a lightsaber copying whatever you last swung. Even your empty hands will draw a tiny hitbox. It can be disengaged many several ways; attacking, crouch shielding, swimming, certain types of climbing, damage that displaces you, being above slippery slopes, and more.

This is great for quick combat; just ram into enemies like Stalfos and melt them in a few hits. There's more though! ISG puts Link in a state where he's constantly considered to be attacking; the game will not let him fall to the ground in the attacking state (sans attacks he can perform midair i.e. the jump strike), and as such you can walk into ledges without falling off. In fact, if you block a source of damage in midair during the ISG state, Link will get stuck in midair (mechanically I don't know the science behind it but it's known lol), and if you're high enough off the floor he will stay there, resulting in a glitch called the Hover which is useful all over the game. There are tons of different ways to hover, most use explosives as it's the most portable way to do it. The most basic of which is to put on hover boots, pull a bomb, and backflip while blocking it as it goes off. You can do the same with Bombchus, though chus go off immediately when you hit your shield button so you don't need to time it. There are more mechanically complex methods that omit the hover boots as well, which expand your options even more. Really for hovering the ingredients are:
1. a way to activate ISG
2. a way to block damage
3. a location off the ground slightly higher than backflip height
4. A way to reduce backflip distance (hover boots)
5. A bootsless method of shortening your backflip (sideflips or twisted backflips)

Those are just two of the most commonplace things off the bat and already there's a ton to dig into lol.
 
Jack Garland said:
I love the fucking power crouch stab glitch in vanilla OoT.
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It trivializes a lot of the combat in the game, usually without making it feel worse for it despite that.

With Morpha for example, the quick kill strat is to get in a corner of the room, target it the whole time, yank it out, and keep hooking it while you circle around it (hook will keep it stunned). Once it's in the corner do a normal slash (gets your sword in your hand), then jump strike (sets power crouch stab damage), then spam crouch stabs. Kills it in the blink of an eye.

There's still an execution aspect to it that makes it fun to do despite it being pretty easy, and tons of OoT's combat exploits are like that
 
Weltraumfürst said:
No.
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The story is good for a laugh, but you can just get that on jewtube. Apparently a negress and a furry fucked and created Hyrule and maybe Zelda's line. Thankfully the nu shit is confirmed to be its own retarded thing (since goytendo can't be bothered with the timeline anymore). The further away the good lore is from techno-furry/negress bestiality the better.
 
DickMain said:
I can start with a quick one since I have some downtime then. Most everything I know is for the 1.0 version of the game (i.e. not OoT3D).
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And we're back, with more technology. This time it's some generalized movement stuff, and while it's not as flashy as the glitches described earlier, it's still stuff used for many of them. Now I will say up front that this is more in the weeds than the last one, but I promise it's useful (if not boring).

First off is basic movement. When you think of the fastest standard way to move, you might think of sidehops. That's true for adult, but only if you're doing frame perfect hops, which is not only hard to do over a long distance but is also harder to do on slopes or when a direction change is involved. Rolling can be fast, but Link actually slows down at the end of the roll and needs to run for a frame before doing another in order to maintain top speed. Instead, a faster and more consistent way to get around is to just backwalk. It has applications in sequence breaking too, like crossing the sand river in the Haunted Wasteland without needing Longshot or Hover Boots.


"So hopping and rolling aren't that useful?" You might wonder. Not so! In fact, rolling and hopping are two actions we have that help us get consistent angles and positioning for all sorts of trick setups, oftentimes for clipping into geometry. See, there's a quirk with hopping and backflipping while holding target. Your next roll will be an angled roll, with a very specific angle (the direction depends on if you hopped left or right). We can re-target mid roll to make Link face the new angle if needed, or we can hold target throughout and use the roll for positioning only. If you ever look up Clipping in this game and see the player doing random rolls and hops this is why!


We can also get angled rolls by making him walk backwards slowly (not tilting the stick enough to get the jump prompt) and tapping A to roll.


But what if we need an angle even more specific? Well for that we have ESS turning. This is performed by holding the stick within a certain range outside the deadzone (where no input is taken) but not enough to make Link move. When you hold ESS position Link will shuffle his feet and pivot in place. Tons of techniques use this stick position, in fact the name comes from Extended Super Slide, a method to perserve momentum while in this pivoting state since it doesn't decay while he's doing so. We can achieve discrete angle changes by tapping the stick to ESS position for a single frame (easier than it sounds; the game runs at 20fps (menu at 30!)), which is used all over the game.


But wait, there's more (and trust me this all ties together)! If we initiate an ESS Shuffle then press and hold Target, Link will shuffle in place indefinitely. What the fuck is this even useful for? Well, apart from some more advanced stuff, we can now change the direction Link is facing while targeting which has some useful applications. See, while targeting, the camera is normally bound to Link's back, and your sidehops and backflip are on left/right and back respectively. However, in reality, the direction you hold on the stick is always relative to Link himself's facing direction. If he's facing the camera, and we hold Target, his body will be locked facing forward, but 'back' becomes whatever direction HIS back is facing. So what does this mean anyway, and how do we do cool shit with it?


For starters, are you still doing that ESS shuffle from earlier? Hold ESS position, then press and hold Target. Don't let go of any of these. Next, hold Down on the stick; Link should face the camera, while targeting, for a couple of frames. It's during these frames where we can press the new 'back' (always relative to his body, remember), and input a backflip. Done properly and Link will backflip, then correct his facing, and backflip forwards. Congrats, you've done a twisted backflip; one of a few ways we have to shorten our backflip distance to use the Hover glitch from my previous effortpost. Now, of course, the hard part is inputting this all during those two frames. There's an easier way with Pause Buffering. The game actually takes your inputs and queues them up for a short window of time after you unpause, before the game starts to animate again. We can then pause again and repeat as much as we need to. It's a way we can cheat out easy frame perfect inputs, and it's easy to practice by just pausing over and over while running to make him run one frame at a time. So, do your ESS Shuffle, pause, hold down and unpause for a frame, then pause again. He'll be facing towards the camera. Now without letting go of target, hold the NEW direction for 'back', unpause, and press A. You should backflip forwards!


A similar but easier concept is the Sideflip. Remember those angled rolls from earlier? Hold down while targeting to walk slowly, then press A. Well, during a sideroll there's a specific frame near the end of the animation where you can hold left/right (opposite of your rolling direction) and input a backflip. You'll get what's called a sideflip, and it's another method to get a shorter backflip for the Hover technique from my previous effortpost.

Sorry again if this one was a little boring, but I promise the boring shit are building blocks for the flashy techniques. If there's any interest I'd be happy to continue more when I'm free.
 
Never Scored said:
Ocarina of Time remake rumors continue to circulate.
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This is a bad idea. Either it will be *too* safe and retards will complain about it not changing much, or it'll be wildly different, and retards will complain about it not being in the spirit of Ocarina. I hope Nintendo EPD isn't working on this, because if it's true it sounds like a colossal waste of their time.
Betonhaus said:
Can we get a new 2.5d with lots of dungeons like A Link Between Worlds?
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Echoes would scratch the itch if it wasn't Echoes.
 
Jack Garland said:
I hope Nintendo EPD isn't working on this, because if it's true it sounds like a colossal waste of their time.
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Could be Monolith 2nd production, Nintendo could be giving them a remake like how Sony does that to train new staff. They did that with Prime Remastered and the new retrostudios team
 
They could just remaster it. I'm hoping that's what they'll do.
I want a Majora's Mask remaster. I liked the 3DS version for its portability but I wasn't wild about some of the changes.

If we're talking remakes, why not take one of the 2D games and remake it to 3D or something? That could be neat-- maybe the Oracle games.
 
I really don't want it to just be Ocarina of Time with a new splash of paint on it. Either make it unique (as much as a remake can be) or don't even bother.
 
Lone Star said:
I really don't want it to just be Ocarina of Time with a new splash of paint on it. Either make it unique (as much as a remake can be) or don't even bother.
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Goytendo won't even update the fucking OST. Thankfully for them old school Zelda has some of the best OSTs around, but remember the 3DS games and even TPHD? Again, their OSTs are brilliant, but they kept the god damn midi scores instead of going all the way and orchestrating them... I was so disappointed with that back in the day. I think Metroid Prime's synthy OST still works just as well as it did in 2002 and therefore didn't need to be updated for the Prime Remaster, but something like Ocarina absolutely deserved it.

I'd go even further and say that Twilight Princess, which for once put an emphasis on leitmotif deserved an orchestrated OST most of all. You could argue midi still works for Ocarina/Majora being N64 games, but in 2006 Nintendo was already getting shit for doing midi music too much, which is why Skyward Sword's OST finally did orchestration. Yet I can't remember a single track from that game other than the doofy Groose theme and the main theme which is Zelda's lullaby backwards - really exploding with creativity there Koji (dude must have been drained coming off of the Mario Galaxy games)... At least when Twilight Princess reused an old song for its main theme, it was literally 3 singular notes from the Dark World theme in ALTTP expanded into an entirely new song/leitmotif for the game.
 
Lone Star said:
I really don't want it to just be Ocarina of Time with a new splash of paint on it. Either make it unique (as much as a remake can be) or don't even bother.
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I really don't see the point if it's just a graphical remaster with the 3DS version existing and the original version available on Nintendo Online.

I don't think they should touch the dungeons or story because their dungeon design isn't what it used to be, and significantly changing something like the Fire Temple or Spirit Temple is just going to piss people off. Just make Master Quest available from the start and expand the overworld and add a bunch of optional side quests and mini dungeons that can be tackled in any order. Hyrule Field was amazing when the game came out in 1998, but it really is pretty empty. Make that bigger and fill it with optional shit. Nothing extreme, maybe Hyrule Field/Lake Hylia/Death Mountain/Desert combined are the size of the Great Plateau with 5-6 hours of additional optional content.

That being said, it's probably just going to end up being a Super Mario RPG style graphical overhaul, with an hour or two of optional post game content that will cost $70.
 
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Never Scored said:
I really don't see the point if it's just a graphical remaster with the 3DS version existing and the original version available on Nintendo Online.

I don't think they should touch the dungeons or story because their dungeon design isn't what it used to be, and significantly changing something like the Fire Temple or Spirit Temple is just going to piss people off. Just make Master Quest available from the start and expand the overworld and add a bunch of optional side quests and mini dungeons that can be tackled in any order. Hyrule Field was amazing when the game came out in 1998, but it really is pretty empty. Make that bigger and fill it with optional shit. Nothing extreme, maybe Hyrule Field/Lake Hylia/Death Mountain/Desert combined are the size of the Great Plateau with 5-6 hours of additional optional content.

That being said, it's probably just going to end up being a Super Mario RPG style graphical overhaul, with an hour or two of optional post game content that will cost $70.
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NuZelda needs to learn the lesson that wide as an ocean but deep as a puddle isn't good. As you say a beefed up Hyrule Field but NOT going overboard with it could be good. Having something maybe thrice as big as TP's hyrule field, but greatly expanded with CONTENT. Crazy idea I know, not everyone wants to fight the same bokoblins forever in between tower climbing, bite-size puzzles (shrines), and korok seed hunts. Expand the fishing hole, put in more minigames (expand Castle Town), dare I say add a new (non-nigger) character or two who can give you tasks etc.

I think the grottos could be greatly expanded into cave systems (kindov like *shudders* TOTK). Areas like the Lost Woods, due its very nature, could be greatly expanded into a labyrinth combat gauntlet or something. Navi could actually get more dialogue to flesh her out, who the fuck knows. None of that will be done though.
 
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