The Linux Thread - The Autist's OS of Choice

acid_ra1n said:
look all u have to do to answer the question is name things sysvinit does better than openrc s6 dinit and runit
for some reason we keep arguing about stuff other than what i actually asked
that is the only thing i'm asking is why should i tell someone "use a distro that uses sysvinit" instead of "use a distro that uses runit"
i genuinely can't think of a valid argument against this, but i got 5 dislikes on that post and i'm like 99% sure everyone that disagreed with me doesn't actually disagree with me they just misread my post
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A few years back I built some ancient Gopher server from the mid 90s.

It needed a lot of dodgy workarounds to compile.

But it came with an example sysvinit script that just worked.

It is never OK to tell someone to make the choice to use systemd. If you have got to the point where you are aware of systemd, it is time to move to a cleaner, unpolluted distribution.

I don't care what REAL init people choose to use. But in my experience, sysvinit is the one that very rarely requires any thinking at all. That's fine to me. From my point of view, computers should be an appliance, and nothing should ever change without a good reason.

Again, if someone wants to get their hands dirty with an alternative REAL init system like OpenRC or whatever, that's cool, more power to them. I just like proven simplicity.

I'm not saying I'm against other REAL init systems. I used Gentoo with OpenRC back in the day. I don't think I had to fuck around with the scripts more than once or twice. On a shitty prebuilt with a low end Athlon XP and a 5400 rpm HDD, I'm sure it saved seconds off the boot time. But I no longer use Gentoo, and generally use laptops now and they get put into sleep when not in use. I fully agree that there is a hierarchy of 'technical excellence'.
1) OpenRC, FreeBSD's rcNG, Darwin's launchd, Solaris SMF, D6, Runit, etc etc etc
2) Sysvinit
3) Busybox init and other minimal single file inits
4) Cutting off your own penis with a blunt, rusty pruning saw
5) Systemd shite

I am just am not stressed at this point about technical excellence over lazy goodness. For me, anything above #4 in the technical continium is perfectly acceptable technically speaking and sysvinit Just Works.
 
Dread First said:
And GhostBSD itself gets mogged by the ghost of PC-BSD (damn PC-BSD niggers changing their project over to track FreeBSD-CURRENT, switch from Plasma 4 to Lumina, and then change its name to TrueOS... only to die unceremoniously when no one cared about what they were doing).
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At least DRAGONFLY tends to just head down ignore everyone else and do whatever the fuck they want.
 
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Ok who the heck broke this thread? The comments are out of order if you look at their posted times

Edit: discussion here
Betonhaus

Feedback Post in thread 'Technical Grievances'

Max Weber said:
To add to this, a new post there just got inserted into the middle of the page:
Checked on Firefox and Ungoogled Chromium, same thing.
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I didn't even catch that, but that would explain why I was confused. I'm guessing a few posts are stuck at the bottom for some reason?
oh that entire page is messed up, the first posts was posted today at 8am, then the next at 6pm today, then the next at 8:25am today, and it keeps alternating between about a 12 hour period.

I just made a new post and it showed up in the middle of the page, with 7 posts below it
 
AnOminous said:
Known issue. Probably related to the bug where posts have times in the future.
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Oh, so some posts have a UTC timestamp and others have a local timezone timestamp? Is it due to the use of tor, the users OS, or if they're using the mobile or desktop site?
 
Ferryman said:
An embarrassing degree of performative cuckoldry. MidnightBSD is effectively a one-man project with maybe, what, ~30 active users? This stinks of grifting to me. First he declares that he resists age verification, then immediately spearheads its implementation in BSDland. 100% its some faggot publicity stunt, and all things considered:

View attachment 8791128

I think that's pretty likely. His fagstodon has him crying over Framework's sponsorship of Hyprland and reposting posts about the importance of ethics and codes of conduct in foss, and IIRC he also decried XLibre with the typical muh natzees angle. Also he's mogged by GhostBSD in every conceivable way.
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Whenever I see a guy put his pronouns in the bio section of his GitHub, I just know he's one of the biggest homosexuals to walk the earth.
 
Betonhaus said:
...has anyone on this thread notices that it doesn't seem to properly jump to the latest post? For me just this thread has this problem. Might just be something in one of the comments
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Yea

What the flip dude
 
⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛ said:
I am just am not stressed at this point about technical excellence over lazy goodness. For me, anything above #4 in the technical continium is perfectly acceptable technically speaking and sysvinit Just Works.
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This is the part I dont understand
I've used all the major inits and all of them just work
That's the same rationale I get from systemd users that systemd just works but that argument almost universally comes from a place of ignorance of other inits
 
acid_ra1n said:
This is the part I dont understand
I've used all the major inits and all of them just work
That's the same rationale I get from systemd users that systemd just works but that argument almost universally comes from a place of ignorance of other inits
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To reiterate this again. I am lazy. I don't want to learn how to to use a non-standard init system- OK, that isn't relevant to the 'completely ignorant user' caveat that you added to your later questions about 'why people prefer sysvinit' after people initially answered you. Fine.

I also don't want to bother to have to manage my own S6 config files when I can just use sysvinit as I have since time immemorial and get ready made init scripts with the packages I install, only needing to mangle up a new script for the rare server software that I actually have to build from source. Being the default standard for decades and just working without needing intervention is an advantage of sysvinit.
 
⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛ said:
I also don't want to bother to have to manage my own S6 config files when I can just use sysvinit as I have since time immemorial and get ready made init scripts with the packages I install, only needing to mangle up a new script for the rare server software that I actually have to build from source. Being the default standard for decades and just working without needing intervention is an advantage of sysvinit.
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yeah and i dont mean to go so hard on you i understand the concept of personal preference
like for instance i use s6 init but i don't ever recommend it to people unless they show an interest in extremely advanced init systems
that's really what i was trying to get at because i saw people disagreeing with my initial response which was that i don't recommend people look into sysvinit distros when it makes more sense to recommend runit, s6, dinit, or openrc if they want the alt init experience with less headache and more modern features
 
teriyakiburns said:
My first distro.
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Same here but in my case it was more a coincidence rather purposeful purchase.
The PC was cheaper than its counterparts and had somewhat good specification. On the power up I realized that me and my dad just bought something different than usual Windows PC. To be frank, once the OS boot up there was a really nice and thoroughly described readme file that informed what this specific distribution is and if necessary it described option to install Windows partition along side. I was having a really hard time to do anything on this distro. Mainly I was infuriated that my games won't install and double-clicking .exe files does nothing or open an archive.

The system lasted for like an hour or two and was swiftly replaced with nigh-genuine copy of Windows XP bought from some dude on local exchange market in what used to be a factory of some sort.

So yeah, good times.

My 2nd encounter with Linux distro was Ubuntu gifted to me by my so-called uncle, who back then was a policemen. He told me to try it out because at that time police was snooping around for nigh-genuine copies of Windows installed on private machines. One folk from my family was even fined for hefty amount of cash for having... downloading a signifcant amount of .mp3. Probably they got some sort of pirate server somewhere and checked every IP that ever come to say "hello world".
Anyhow, this distro lasted on my HDD a bit longer but I couldn't get it work with ADSL modem (Neostrada by Sagem) and connect to the internet. I probably done something wrong or didn't had the required packege. It definetly had setp-by-step installation for Debain-based system but at the time I didn't knew that Ubuntu was fork of it. So again I moved back to Windows.
 
dame dudi jench said:
You can take any GPL'd project proprietary whenever you want without consequence too, the blocker is if you had 3rd party contributors who didn't sign a contributor license agreement.
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Devils advocate: you can just take code today. Open source licenses don't really do shit, fair use in code has been historically stupid easy to argue. If you put it out for everyone, its as good as stolen.
 
acid_ra1n said:
yeah and i dont mean to go so hard on you i understand the concept of personal preference
like for instance i use s6 init but i don't ever recommend it to people unless they show an interest in extremely advanced init systems
that's really what i was trying to get at because i saw people disagreeing with my initial response which was that i don't recommend people look into sysvinit distros when it makes more sense to recommend runit, s6, dinit, or openrc if they want the alt init experience with less headache and more modern features
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Not to drag this conversation out any further, but you only really touched upon the LFS point I made here and you still haven't really acknowledged what I brought up about sysvinit's virtues. Allow me to give you a practical example.

I'm running a home server right now using Ubuntu Server 24.04. Right now, it's 100% perfect the way I have it, and any changes I make for the sake of ideological purity or perceived value would be entirely unnecessary. BUT... if I was gonna redo my home server setup, then Devuan has real value over cookie-cutter Debian or the latest Ubuntu Server LTS. Specifically in the context of divorcing myself from systemd and its myriad of problems (re: CVEs that emerge every time a systemd update happens).

The trade-offs in no parallelisation, hotplug incapability, orphaned process management, etc are basically negligible in a home server context. I'm the one who's writing cron jobs, shell scripts, arranging my daemons, etc. If I'm running a headless server where the only processes I need to worry about are sshd and Docker Compose, and I have basically no exposure to hard systemd dependencies anyway, then Devuan really is a viable alternative to mainline Debian or Ubuntu Server.

I could easily set up cron jobs, the relevant shell scripts, arrange my daemons in the correct order to achieve the desired effect, blah blah blah. If anything goes tits-up, syslogd is immediately visible relative to journald's binary-only logs. Yeah, it ain't perfect, but really... a minimal home server context where I'm only running a handful of services and spinning things up entirely in Docker Compose basically means that I'm not in any real situation where the lack of robust features that "modern" init frameworks like systemd, OpenRC, s6, runit, dinit, or whatever else would bite me in the ass.

I'd certainly never run Devuan as a desktop or workstation operating system, but as a substrate for my home server? Yeah, it's definitely a viable option both despite and because of being sysvinit-forward.
 
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