Avatar: The Last Airbender / The Legend of Korra

[BigBadBastich]

I'm in bewilderment on how the entire movie could get emailed to some dude and then leaked online. Like its so fucking dumb it just warps around to being funny.

 

[Prophetic Spirit]

I'm in bewilderment on how the entire movie could get emailed to some dude and then leaked online. Like its so fucking dumb it just warps around to being funny.

At this point i'm sure was intentional to show us how crap it is.

 

[Exegesis]

I'm in bewilderment on how the entire movie could get emailed to some dude and then leaked online. Like its so fucking dumb it just warps around to being funny.

I feel like it's possible that they just sent the entire thing for some type of review by management or whoever the fuck and on accident included a random intern or something. Either that or it was intentionally leaked by somebody via email.

 

[Kabobs]

The funny thing about all this praise about animation is that these shows and movie were animated in Korea.
Not the west.

Well, most of American animation is animated in Korea so it's not uncommon. Even SpongeBob and The Simpsons. It's just standard outsourcing.

 

[ArthuriusMartyrius]

He's still alive when he gets hit with the air blast and is knocked out of the Avatar state, he only dies when he's slammed into the ground.

But still, the fact that everyone is killed and brought back to life is mentioned so flippantly, you get 5 seconds of Katara explaining "yes, you all died, but thankfully I woke up in a pond with spiritual powers and brought you back". If they're revived in the next scene why even have them die at all? Did Aang really need to die to speak to Sonam? How long does an Avatar have to stay dead until the next one is born?

Pretty sure he dies the moment he gets hit since he got thrown around a ton previously and walked it off but I'll need to re-watch to be sure.

 

[Bâtard Consanguine]

The "every character must be voiced by a character of the same race" is one of the most anti-art anti-quality policies in Hollywood right now.

Not just race, but disability too. The new Toph VA is a blind Asian woman, probably the only one they could find.

 

[The Nothingness]

Is it just me or does having another war before the events of the original series (where another group of airbenders were wiped out) take away the sufficient for the Fire Nation's rise to power? And now both the Air and Earth nations were powerful countries in the past? What's next, the Water Tribes were a unified superpower before a cataclysmic event like in the myth of Atlantis?

 

[FK009]

Is it just me or does having another war before the events of the original series (where another group of airbenders were wiped out) take away the sufficient for the Fire Nation's rise to power? And now both the Air and Earth nations were powerful countries in the past? What's next, the Water Tribes were a unified superpower before a cataclysmic event like in the myth of Atlantis?

It does, but they don’t care. Just like they didn’t care when they Thanos Snapped Air Benders back into existence.

 

[Vibralldo]

Not just race, but disability too. The new Toph VA is a blind Asian woman, probably the only one they could find.

Weirdly enough she's the voice actress with the most industry experience. She voiced Trixie (the popular girl Timmy had a crush on) in The Fairly Oddparents and Kimmy (Chickie's adopted half Japanese, half French adopted sister) on Rugrats.

That's why it was so disappointing that she did a bad job.

 

[Mystery Spy]

I genuinely believe that if they hadn't made Korra a lesbian at the last second, it would be remembered as what it was: a poor sequel that failed to live up to the original. She would've been, at best, silently tossed aside—maybe given a brief nod in a real sequel—before skipping to a traditional male hero for the next Avatar. She might've even been retconned away entirely. It was that bad.

Korra was so unpopular when it aired that Nickelodeon didn't even bother keeping it on television. They pulled it and shifted it to online-only release because it had become a ratings failure. ATLA was only second to Spongebob. Korra's last season was downgraded to an online release (back when Netflix wasn't a thing).

The only reason people defend it so rabidly is because Korra was made into a lesbian. That's it. She even started as a heterosexual girl in a love triangle with Mako.

Even ignoring how unlikeable Korra was, the fates they gave the Gaang, the retcons to the spirit world, the shoehorned new Team Avatar, and the dumb time skip that destroyed the spirituality and fantasy vibes of the setting all remain major issues. But you can't complain about any of it because Bryke took the coward's way out by hiding behind "representation" to shield their shitty writing. To this day, I am still pissed.

If you don't think Korra was a masterpiece and genuinely believe it would be better if the show were retconned out of existence, you're labeled a bigot. I ask, If Korra really was that succesful, then why do they keep returning to ATLA? Even the latest movie was about the original series, Because that's the only thing people like.

 

[BigBadBastich]

If you don't think Korra was a masterpiece and genuinely believe it would be better if the show were retconned out of existence, you're labeled a bigot. I ask, If Korra really was that succesful, they why do they keep returning to ATLA? Even the latest movie was about the original series, Because that's the only thing people like.

Its the same debacle with the Star Wars sequels and knowing the minds of the people involved as well as their bosses. If they completely denounced all of the unpopular media they made, it would be an admission of defeat. So they just silently ignore it. This is why they keep revisiting prequel media or the setting of the original movies or Mando and Ahsoka which all take place sometime after the original trilogy but before Rey. They can silently ignore it and very few people will bring it up because the inclusion of faces they're familiar with is enough to placate them. Ask yourself what would be more popular? Announcing another Rey Palpatine movie or a Filoni Starkiller show? Its the same thing with ATLA. They will never go back to Korra.

 

[Incecticyder]

I genuinely believe that if they hadn't made Korra a lesbian at the last second, it would be remembered as what it was: a poor sequel that failed to live up to the original. She would've been, at best, silently tossed aside—maybe given a brief nod in a real sequel—before skipping to a traditional male hero for the next Avatar. She might've even been retconned away entirely. It was that bad.

Korra was so unpopular when it aired that Nickelodeon didn't even bother keeping it on television. They pulled it and shifted it to online-only release because it had become a ratings failure. ATLA was only second to Spongebob. Korra's last season was downgraded to an online release (back when Netflix wasn't a thing).

The only reason people defend it so rabidly is because Korra was made into a lesbian. That's it. She even started as a heterosexual girl in a love triangle with Mako.

Even ignoring how unlikeable Korra was, the fates they gave the Gaang, the retcons to the spirit world, the shoehorned new Team Avatar, and the dumb time skip that destroyed the spirituality and fantasy vibes of the setting all remain major issues. But you can't complain about any of it because Bryke took the coward's way out by hiding behind "representation" to shield their shitty writing. To this day, I am still pissed.

If you don't think Korra was a masterpiece and genuinely believe it would be better if the show were retconned out of existence, you're labeled a bigot. I ask, If Korra really was that succesful, they why do they keep returning to ATLA? Even the latest movie was about the original series, Because that's the only thing people like.

Personally, I do not have a problem with who Korra ended up with. Really, there was no good option. She would always have ended up with someone from her team but Bryke failed to pick early enough to build it up. As for criticism, more people are ok with calling it a lesser show. The "representation" only mitigated the backlash temporarily.

I have an issue with claims that the sexuality of the character hurt a show. Especially when it comes to shows made by the alumni of ATLA. Ultimately, the shows they made fail to live up to the original because they lack one thing: Good planning.

Take Korra for example: The protagonist being bisexual was irrelevant to its real issues. Korra had no love interest for 2 seasons. The first two seasons were spent on a false lead. This team Avatar had no representation from the Air Nation which left the team without spiritual center. Republic City was not interesting enough place to remain in and they had to change scenery to places that they had put little thought building. Only half of the seasons had villains who were well made. See what I mean? Not making Korra bi would not change the fact that everything else was put together with adhesive tape and prayers.

And that is without addressing the obvious sore thumb: Korra is hard to like. You feel for what she goes through but you do not cheer for her. She has no strengths as a character. Her only good quality is that she is good-aligned. In many ways, she is her own worst enemy. A lot of her problems are started because she is impulsive and she sucks at digging herself out of the hole of her own creation.

If ATLA was star fortress, TLOK was medium sized castle. Good for what it was (though there are things that could have been done better) but nothing ground breaking. The contrast is great though. Still, TLOK was a masterpiece compared to what they did after and are about to do now.

 

[Chocolate Rain]

I have an issue with claims that the sexuality of the character hurt a show

The problem stems from the fact that it was the worst thing to do to cap off the end of the series. ATLA ends with the two characters who had developed their relationship throughout the course of the show embracing each other in a long deserved kiss that was the reward for the audience for sticking with it until the end, Korra ends with two literal strangers hooking up done so to shield away the show from criticism and the guarantee it'll always have dents willing to go up to bat for it regardless. Its such a cowardly tactic that anyone with a brain would hate it but unfortunately we live in a "fuck you got mine" society where people are fine with garbage as long as you give them something in return. Korra would still be a bad character even if she was gay and Asami will forever be a nothing character its just an embarassing capstone to end the show on.

 

[Mystery Spy]

I have an issue with claims that the sexuality of the character hurt a show.

I didn't make that claim. In fact I said the opposite.

The sexuality change retcon was shown at the very last moment so everything that went terribly with the show was due to terrible writting full stop.

What I am saying is that Bryke obviously did this last moment as a way to save a sinking ship, and to shield their shitty writting from criticism. And it worked. And I stand by it.

Personally, I do not have a problem with who Korra ended up

I am not surprised. Like I said people only get excited by the lesbians part.

I never cared about Korra to care who she ended up, to debate, who was the "more logical" love interest. But I will critique it for being poorly made.

Korra did have a love interest from the start: Mako. She was in a love triangle for him against Asami. She cucked Asami and then Korra started dating Mako. That's what happened.

Then the last season the two girls in the triangle decided to date each other? And it's revealed the two main girls are actually bi and like each other more than the guy they were fighting over and both wanted to date initially? Really?

Makes as much sense as Betty and Veronica ditching Archie to start dating each other.

I mean I won't judge if people like their Yuri, or whatever, but that screams backpedaling. It was an obvious retcon. And it was poorly written full stop.

Fine, if you like lesbians, I won't judge, but I don't buy this was the plan from the start.

 

[Prophetic Spirit]

Korra & Asami had less working-up relationship than the entire series.
I'm sure they are just 2 scenes which they're even talking about the situation in general and not between themselfes.

 

[starborn427614]

Korra & Asami had less working-up relationship than the entire series.
I'm sure they are just 2 scenes which they're even talking about the situation in general and not between themselfes.

They're a better match than Korra and Mako, but that's not really saying much. God damn was Mako a shit character.

 

[Incecticyder]

The problem stems from the fact that it was the worst thing to do to cap off the end of the series. ATLA ends with the two characters who had developed their relationship throughout the course of the show embracing each other in a long deserved kiss that was the reward for the audience for sticking with it until the end, Korra ends with two literal strangers hooking up done so the shield away the show from criticism and the guarantee it'll always have dents willing to go up to bat for it regardless. Its such a cowardly tactic that anyone with a brain would hate it but unfortunately we live in a "fuck you got mine" society where people are fine with garbage as long as you gave them something in return. Korra would still be a bad character even if she was gay and Asami will forever be a nothing character its just an embarassing capstone to end the show on.

The issue I have with that is that it is distracting. Was it done as a shield? It was a bit too early to tell. It was risky. Every time after however? Yeah, it was either a shield or pandering. Adventure Time? Pander. The Owl House? Pander. This is not like Voltron where the couples were obvious but they switched things up. In TLOK, every pairing was bad. I mainly blame everyone else for jumping into the pandering wagon.

I am not surprised. Like I said people only get excited by the lesbians parts.

That is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that no person had chemistry with Korra by the end. Asami was just a choice that was no better or worse than any other at that point.

I never cared about Korra to care who she ended up, to debate, who was the "more logical" love interest. But I will critique it for being poorly made.

That is what I mean. It was poorly made. ATLA had 3 seasons building up the romance. TLOK had Korra have soap opera drama. Get together -> Break up -> Get together. I had no time getting attached to any pairing.

Korra did have a love interest from the start: Mako. She was in a love triangle for him against Asami. She cucked Asami and then Korra started dating Mako. That's what happened.

Mako was done dirty. He was made into a cheater. That killed it for me. After that, he had no character development. His entire personality was being Korra's boyfriend and they had nothing beyond that.

Then the last season they decided to date each other? And it's revealed the two main girls are actually bi and like each other more than the guy they were fighting over and dated initially?

It was so unnecessarily dumb. Just have it be that they grew closer together after the poisoning and fell in love. Have it be that it is Asami that took care of Korra for those years. Have Asami say that she will be there for Korra. ANYTHING! We would get it. I just want a pairing that had some investment. They had a TIME SKIP and achieved NOTHING?!

I mean I won't judge if people like their Yuri,nor whatever but that screams backpedaling. It was poorly written full stop.

It is not backpedaling. You know what it is? It is them realizing that they wrote themselves into a corner by not giving the new Team Avatar proper character development/chemistry/romance. Mako was left alone amongst the couples as the playboy heartbreaker, Bolin was as directionless as ever, Korra remained the idiot that acts without thinking and Asami was left to manage making sense out of all this.

All this says one thing: They had no real planning. They wrote by the seat of their pants and it shows.

Korra & Asami had less working-up relationship than the entire series.
I'm sure they are just 2 scenes which they're even talking about the situation in general and not between themselfes.

It was more than that but they could have spent the last season showing them working together or something. Encouraging one another or something. Instead, they met again at the half way point after THREE YEARS! No, they wrote themselves into this and couldn't write themselves out of it.

They're a better match than Korra and Mako, but that's not really saying much. God damn was Mako a shit character.

Yeah. As I said however, there were no plans for Mako after the first season.

 

[ArthuriusMartyrius]

They're a better match than Korra and Mako, but that's not really saying much. God damn was Mako a shit character.

Mako and Asami were the best match though.

I have no problem with love triangles but they way it was done made everyone except Asami look like utter cunts. If it was just Korra secretly crushing on Mako but being respectful of his relationship with Asami and struggling with keeping it in as a hormonal 16 year old then yeah, I'd get it. Mako also beginning to develop feelings for Korra but remaining steadfastly loyal to Asami and feeling guilty over it would also be understandable. And Asami actually showing some character for once and reacting like a real teenage girl by being mad at both her boyfriend AND the girl that she views as stealing him from her (plus insecurity from the fact that she's competing with the freaking AVATAR) instead of just being a good feminist that chews out Mako and is totally cool with Korra would also help make it feel more relatable.

But this is the kind of thing that needs to be developed over 2 or more seasons and they rushed that shit in like 5 episodes.

 

[Duine In Cudromach]

She would always have ended up with someone from her team but Bryke failed to pick early enough to build it up.

They chose Mako.

Then it turns out fans hate Mako, so they made Korra break up with Mako. It's all pretty frustrating because she had a really cute date with Bolin and the two seemed to hit it off, but on reflection I'm glad this died before it had any chance to fester. Bolin might have made her a better person, but given the writers wer'e dealing with, it just would have made him worse.

Just to be clear-- I'm not a shipper and I think the ideal situation, given that they wrote the first season believing it would be a one-off until very late in development, they shouldn't have bothered with any romance and I don't see why they felt it was a necessary component except that the original Avatar also had romance. But the original Avatar had three seasons. Of all the beats that they needed to hit when develping a special miniseries, an arbitrary love interest is easily the one that could've been dropped to give more time to more important material.

The only reason people defend it so rabidly is because Korra was made into a lesbian. That's it. She even started as a heterosexual girl in a love triangle with Mako.

I really just wanted to bolster this statement, because I very clearly remember when this announcement was made.

Korra had ended months before. Nobody cared. A lot of folks had already dropped the series and didn't even pay attention when it went online. Talk of Korra had almost entirely dried up online. It was nothing.

And then Bryke said "bi the way" and suddenly interest exploded. People who had never said anything were suddenly fawning over the show. Lesbian fan art out the wazoo. There hadn't been this much energy since Season 1.

I disagree that it was a gamble, at that. It would've been electric at the time if it was confirmed in-show, but they just had the two hold hands and walk into a portal together and it was such a subtle nothing of a relationship that even fans struggled to justify it with any in-universe content (I remember, very amusingly, that Andrew Dobson, lesbian ally extraordaire, got excited enough to put together a 'Korrasami supercut' and had to admit that across four seasons he basically had two minutes of footage). But to let the series sit for months and then make a post-hoc comment has always been Easy Mode for representation points. It requires nothing, and the benefits are profound-- since it's an online statement, you risk nothing with the normies who watched your show and moved on with their life, while the fandom is driven into a tizzy theorizing and creating and propelling a property that should have died far past its shelf life.

And since I'm throwing myself into the thread cold, I'll also be blunt about my overall opinion:

AtLA was a great show and should have stayed that way. It didn't need to turn into a franchise, it didn't need to keep vomiting sequels and new stories, it came in and did what it wanted to do and if they didn't have a phenomenal idea for a follow-up it didn't need one. But Nickelodeon wanted money, and Bryke seem terminally incapable of doing Avatar but Worse. Over and over and over again. If they want to keep working on the same universe there are definitely stories to be told, but Bryke simply don't have the chops to do it without the team they once had-- I think the comics pretty well proved that Korra's issues weren't just because of network fuckery, however much people try to excuse it. Not that network fuckery helped, but the issues with their writing are far more foundational.

Thanking the thread now for the movie link. Haven't watched it yet but looking at the reaction I'm terribly excited.

 

[Incecticyder]

Mako and Asami were the best match though.

See? That is the thing. ATLA had two main shipping factions: Zutara and Kataang. The rest of the ships were too minor to count. No matter what, about 50% would be satisfied. TLOK had many more. Makorra, Masami, Bokorra, Bosami and Korrasami (other minor ones too). Not one was developed. Everyone had their own ship. However, if they focused on one, like they did with ATLA, that would have satisfied enough people. They didn't and here is the result.

instead of just being a good feminist that chews out Mako and is totally cool with Korra would also help make it feel more relatable.

Ok, I understand why she was mainly mad at Mako: Korra was a sheltered idiot. Mako was experienced and in a relationship. Should she be angry at Korra? To an extent. But Mako was more in the wrong.

Then it turns out fans hate Mako, so they made Korra break up with Mako. It's all pretty frustrating because she had a really cute date with Bolin and the two seemed to hit it off, but on reflection I'm glad this died before it had any chance to fester. Bolin might have made her a better person, but given the writers wer'e dealing with, it just would have made him worse.

They could have fixed Mako. Instead, they made him a flip-flopper. And Bolin was great at the start. However, he remained stagnant. He remained the guy who does not know who he is. Perhaps having him be with Korra would have been more... inspirational? Like, provide the writers with inspiration. Honestly, Bolin is the personification of the writers: They have no compass or map but they mean well and create a mess.

Just to be clear-- I'm not a shipper and I think the ideal situation, given that they wrote the first season believing it would be a one-off until very late in development, they shouldn't have bothered with any romance and I don't see why they felt it was a necessary component except that the original Avatar also had romance. But the original Avatar had three seasons. Of all the beats that they needed to hit when develping a special miniseries, an arbitrary love interest is easily the one that could've been dropped to give more time to more important material.

I understand. I was not deep either. However, here is what I have learned about the ATLA alumni: Shipping just MANIFESTS in their works even if they do not intent it to appear. Look at the Dragon Prince: even that, which had a clear couple suffered from shipping. It is part of their writing style even when there is no plan for it. I learned to make peace with that fact.

Again, if they decided with whom Korra would end up by the end of the second season and they spend seasons 3 and 4 developing that relationship, I would have accepted it. Asami, Bolin, random dude/gal. ANYONE! I would be fine with it. Just spend two seasons developing that couple. That was all I asked. Alas, that did not happen.

I really just wanted to bolster this statement, because I very clearly remember when this announcement was made.

Korra had ended months before. Nobody cared. A lot of folks had already dropped the series and didn't even pay attention when it went online. Talk of Korra had almost entirely dried up online. It was nothing.

And then Bryke said "bi the way" and suddenly interest exploded. People who had never said anything were suddenly fawning over the show. Lesbian fan art out the wazoo. There hadn't been this much energy since Season 1.

I disagree that it was a gamble, at that. It would've been electric at the time if it was confirmed in-show, but they just had the two hold hands and walk into a portal together and it was such a subtle nothing of a relationship that even fans struggled to justify it with any in-universe content (I remember, very amusingly, that Andrew Dobson, lesbian ally extraordaire, got excited enough to put together a 'Korrasami supercut' and had to admit that across four seasons he basically had two minutes of footage). But to let the series sit for months and then make a post-hoc comment has always been Easy Mode for representation points. It requires nothing, and the benefits are profound-- since it's an online statement, you risk nothing with the normies who watched your show and moved on with their life, while the fandom is driven into a tizzy theorizing and creating and propelling a property that should have died far past its shelf life.

I will say this: I feel that is was a gamble. Did they end up getting support for it? Absolutely. However, let's be real. The fanart was made by the same people. Tumblrina/os, pornographers and activists. Recent evidence has proven that the guys that THIRST for this stuff are not exactly great in number. It is the same few people consuming copious amount of fan content. Every time they start a petition, it fails. There aren't that many hardcore shippers. Just few vocal ones.

And since I'm throwing myself into the thread cold, I'll also be blunt about my overall opinion:

AtLA was a great show and should have stayed that way. It didn't need to turn into a franchise, it didn't need to keep vomiting sequels and new stories, it came in and did what it wanted to do and if they didn't have a phenomenal idea for a follow-up it didn't need one. But Nickelodeon wanted money, and Bryke seem terminally incapable of doing Avatar but Worse. Over and over and over again. If they want to keep working on the same universe there are definitely stories to be told, but Bryke simply don't have the chops to do it without the team they once had-- I think the comics pretty well proved that Korra's issues weren't just because of network fuckery, however much people try to excuse it. Not that network fuckery helped, but the issues with their writing are far more foundational.

This. So many stars aligned for ATLA. Opinion? There is no right answer. The crowd wanted more. Not giving it would be leaving money on the table. I just wish they used their time more wisely. Take time between seasons to adjust the story while keeping the skeleton. But they didn't have a skeleton. Just random bones in a pile and some were either broken, fake or from a different creature altogether.

Like, was a love SQUARE the best they could come up with for the first season? Only Bolin and Asami were looking good at the end. Half the main cast needed a slap across the face.