Iran Crisis ∩ Trump Politics Mass Debates Thread

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A rather concerning insight into how the impacts of the Iran war are beginning to be felt in European industry;
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Catch The Rainbow said:
How dare trump enforce the Monroe doctrine
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I think the question would be more along the lines of "why would the US decide to get into another war, this time with Cuba"? And I know officially there's a stance that Cuba poses a threat to the Western Hemisphere because of that Russian intelligence base etc but mostly it's ideological. Is it a good idea to get into an ideological war?
To answer that, this article from War On The Rocks may be of interest;

The Demise of Strategic Planning in Israel​

What happens when a country at war stops seriously debating its own strategy and goals?

In Israel today, that scenario is no longer theoretical. In the aftermath of Hamas’ surprise attack on Oct. 7, 2023, and the subsequent conflicts in Gaza, Lebanon, and Iran, Israel’s strategic decision-making ecosystem has been progressively undermined by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his political associates.

Netanyahu has surrounded himself with pliable officials and supportive voices, including the defense minister and the leaders of the Mossad and the Internal Security Agency (Shin Bet). He has become increasingly dependent on extreme coalition partners who constrain the parameters of strategic decision-making to preferences that suit their ideological perspectives. Consequently, strategic decision-making is increasingly taking place in an echo chamber, with growing uniformity in support for Netanyahu’s policy choices and a narrowing of the range of strategic views. The prime minister’s political-criminal predicament has exacerbated the situation. Opposition parties have refused to serve under him, given his criminal status and ongoing trial. This has resulted in a more aggressive regional posture that favors sustaining perpetual military conflict over pursuing diplomatic resolutions.

Crucial decisions, such as initiating a new war against Iran alongside the United States, have been made in the absence of a true reckoning with alternative viewpoints or lessons of past strategic failures. Continued erosion of strategic planning may lead to further aimless wars and missed diplomatic opportunities, increasing regional instability and necessitating continuous U.S. military intervention.

Necessary course correction is implausible under the current government. At best, current strategic planning capabilities may survive. In the longer term, under a different government, the National Security Council can play a significant role in reinvigorating Israel’s strategic planning ecosystem through a newly mandated process to formulate a grand strategy.

The Role of Strategic Planning​

Decision outcomes are not always determined by the quality of the decision-making procedures that precede them. Factors such as luck, chance, and the consequences of strategic interaction may also influence results. Nonetheless, over the long term, a correlation exists between failures in the substantive quality of decisions and the processes through which they are made. Deficiencies within decision-making processes significantly contribute to such failures.

Security policy decisions involve political-ideological factors. However, they should also be grounded in a strategic operational framework supported by a comprehensive infrastructure of detailed knowledge and experience. This includes setting a clear strategic vision, formulating goals and objectives, analyzing the relationship between goals and the means to achieve them, effectively integrating various approaches to attain objectives, and considering relevant end-states, including an estimated timetable.

For all these aspects, it is essential that political leaders rely on specialized professional bodies. This is a continuous rather than one-time process of developing thinking and analytical skills, ultimately resulting in the creation of an appropriate cognitive infrastructure that enables the formulation of the most suitable decision given the circumstances. These institutional decision-making procedures are designed to provide decision-makers with tools intended to structure and regulate judgment, thereby reducing the risks associated with excessive dependence on emotion, intuition, impulsiveness, or personal and political considerations that could lead to undesirable outcomes.

A Problematic Baseline​

Israel has never truly excelled in strategy formulation. Constant and persistent security threats and crises have promoted a short-term, responsive outlook at the expense of long-term grand strategic planning. This outlook, however, does not stem just from “shadow of the present” threats outweighing “shadow of the future” ones, but also from a strategic-cultural predisposition for an inductive logical-analytical cognitive style that prioritizes praxis over strategic thinking. This orientation aligns with an anti-intellectual perspective that undermines the value of vision preceding action.

The politicization of Israel’s national security decision-making process — a consequence of its coalition government system — reinforces the predominance of short-term, reactive planning. Ideological considerations, with a bias toward the Palestinian issue, prevent any professional discussion of a whole range of specific strategic avenues from even getting off the ground.

The Second Lebanon War of 2006, for example, is indicative of the deficiencies in this decision-making system. In its wake, a five-person commission of inquiry, led by retired Judge Eliyahu Winograd, faulted both the government and the Israel Defense Forces, concluding their decision-making and performance during the war and in preceding years led to Israel’s failures. The commission then recommended improving Israel’s strategic decision-making processes by enhancing staff work, political-military exchange, and the cabinet’s standard operating procedures. Afterwards, the Ministry of Defense and the Prime Minister’s Office enhanced their administrative capabilities to support strategic planning.

Still, these administrative fixes have been repeatedly undermined and circumvented. For example, according to the interim report of a State Commission of Inquiry probing decision-making surrounding some $2 billion worth of deals with German shipbuilder ThyssenKrupp that have been under scrutiny for possible corruption and bribery, Netanyahu and his staff worked repeatedly from 2009 to 2017 to undermine strategic staff work rather than enhance it. According to the Sept. 2025 interim report, the prime minister and his staff, led by the National Security Council, undermined the security decision-making process by bypassing the normal approval processes of the security establishment and the government, thereby neutralizing their ability to influence issues central to Israel’s national security.

Prime ministers in the Israeli governmental system are supreme in strategic and security decision-making. However, they typically convene small groups of loyal and trusted advisers who are privy to their preferences and help them navigate the decision-making process. In Hebrew, this group is referred to as a “kitchenette” because Prime Minister Golda Meir used to convene her trusted advisors in her kitchen. During the 1973 Yom Kippur War, it functioned as a war cabinet.

While this type of closed discussion is accommodating for the prime minister, it discourages debate and contestation and inevitably culminates in a self-sustained dynamic of groupthink. This feature of Israeli strategic decision-making has intensified during Netanyahu’s present government, with him relying on a small number of aides and three or four loyal officials, including the recently sacked head of the National Security Council, Tzachi Hanegbi, and the retired Minister of Strategic Affairs, Ron Dermer.

Though far from perfect, strategic planning from the 1973 Yom Kippur War until the formation of the sixth Netanyahu government in 2022 was relatively professional and institutionalized. Various strategic planning bodies, usually led by the Strategic Planning Division of the Israel Defense Forces or the National Security Council (since the late 1990s), initiated or were tasked with developing and presenting strategic recommendations to political leaders through established procedures. Though not necessarily adopted by the prime minister and the cabinet, they served as reference points for strategy making.

From its inception, the present Netanyahu coalition government has actively diluted the strategic planning ecosystem. Strategic issues have been perceived as linked to an obstructive left-leaning “deep state” that has opposed the more controversial ideological and political priorities being proposed by the more extreme members of the government. Strategic issues were also perceived as being linked to the government’s judicial overhaul agenda — also rejected by the so-called deep state.

Thus, strategy and domestic politics have become deeply entangled, leading to growing gatekeeping by the political echelon and a reduction in the influence of the strategic analysis planning process. In the wake of the Oct. 7 attack, strategic planning institutions and the government attempted to blame one another for the tragedy, further undermining trust between them. Netanyahu and his supporters have repeatedly emphasized intelligence and operational failures inside the Israel Defense Forces and security agencies rather than accept personal responsibility. The Israel Defense Forces’ own review cited some internal military failures, but it also pushed for an external inquiry to identify systemic issues across the government... (continued in link)
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Catch The Rainbow said:
If your thoughts are: The jews opened the gates of Toledo and let in the muslim hordes!

Then why is your conclusion: This is why the muslim hordes are our natural allies against the jews, and if you disagree you are jewish!
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It’s a matter of fact that the Jews collaborated with the Umayyad Dynasty of occupied Spain. They also fought alongside Muslims during the Crusades.

Just because you stabbed them in the back with Zionist conquests doesn’t mean you’re not more than happy to use them as bioweapons against Europe.
 
Catch The Rainbow said:
Zero evidence that it's Mossad run
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Lol. Lmao even.

FBI reports, Ben-Menashe testimony(Israel lied about his intelligence role then tried to assassinate him in Canada), Robert Maxwell, Cohn and Lansky, these are the tip of the iceberg. There's a mountain of evidence and it's existed for decades.

Catch The Rainbow said:
Your side is pushing a Muslim Christian alliance hard on X while the sunnis are quiet with their Israel cooperation because their populations will be unhappy if it was in the open, hardly the same.
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You are the one promoting the idea that this war is about Christians vs Muslims, not me. I'm just pointing out how dishonest and deceptive you are.
 
Catch The Rainbow said:
The average Israeli was not radically impoverished by their government choosing to undergo sanctions instead of limiting their nuclear program. They also aren't forced to obey a religion that many of them don't believe in with the threat of death or severe punishment from religious police who patrol to make sure public morality is obeyed and they don't have their wealth stolen by the IDF so it can sponsor groups across the middle east. The IRGC got all of Irans oil profits, everything went to either weapons or the pockets of IRGC make work projects. The whole drought in Iran is partly because of the IRGC running the water Mafia which built unneeded dams as make work projects for them to skim money off.

Its apples and oranges. The fact that you brought this up shows a serious misunderstanding of how the average Iranian feels about their government and the shit it puts them through..
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>The average Israeli was not radically impoverished by their government choosing to undergo sanctions instead of limiting their nuclear program
hmm, I wonder why israel doesn't get sanctioned for their secret nuclear weapons programme
 
bread n circuses said:
Ben-Menashe
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The same ben-menashe who got caught lying about HW Bush attending a secret meeting that he couldn't have attended? You seethe about Jewish influence but then trust a lying Jew when it benefits you, zero principles.


bread n circuses said:
There's a mountain of evidence and it's existed for decades.
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And you cited none of it

Taser Confetti said:
It’s a matter of fact that the Jews collaborated with the Umayyad Dynasty of occupied Spain. They also fought alongside Muslims during the Crusades.

Just because you stabbed them in the back with Zionist conquests doesn’t mean you’re not more than happy to use them as bioweapons against Europe.
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And it's a matter of fact that your side is openly simping for Muslims, Tucker is only one example


bread n circuses said:
You are the one promoting the idea that this war is about Christians vs Muslims, not me. I'm just pointing out how dishonest and deceptive you are
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Pointing out your open simping is being deceptive

Doğu Perinçek said:
>The average Israeli was not radically impoverished by their government choosing to undergo sanctions instead of limiting their nuclear program
hmm, I wonder why israel doesn't get sanctioned for their secret nuclear weapons programme
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Israel didn't sign the NPT. Iran did. Do you understand or do I have to simplify this more
 
Taser Confetti said:
It’s a matter of fact that the Jews collaborated with the Umayyad Dynasty of occupied Spain. They also fought alongside Muslims during the Crusades.

Just because you stabbed them in the back with Zionist conquests doesn’t mean you’re not more than happy to use them as bioweapons against Europe.
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bread n circuses said:
You keep trying to pretend that this is some great Muslim vs Christian war when most of the countries on your side are Muslim.

The Muslims who took Toledo were under the Umayyad Caliphate, the original Sunnis. Israel is teaming up with the Sunnis to exploit the West right now too. What exactly has changed lmao.
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theyre already trying to set up the war in turkey btw. "make istanbul constantinople again" as if, if we were to bomb turkey and iran, that we would get somehow a christian middle east out of that. sure they backstabbed us in toldeo, and with the ottomans, and the lavon affair, and the uss liberty, and in iraq, and now in iran ... but for sure goy you can surely resurge eastern christendom on our doorstep we will toootally let that happen.
 
AssignedEva said:
Netanyahu has surrounded himself with pliable officials and supportive voices, including the defense minister and the leaders of the Mossad and the Internal Security Agency (Shin Bet).
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Strategic thinking pretty much went out the window when Bibi needs any war to delay the court cases against him.
 
Mm
MeltyTW said:
theyre already trying to set up the war in turkey btw. "make istanbul constantinople again" as if, if we were to bomb turkey and iran, that we would get somehow a christian middle east out of that. sure they backstabbed us in toldeo, and with the ottomans, and the lavon affair, and the uss liberty, and in iraq, and now in iran ... but for sure goy you can surely resurge eastern christendom on our doorstep we will toootally let that happen.
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I hope NATO goes Medieval on Israel.
 
Catch The Rainbow said:
The same ben-menashe who got caught lying about HW Bush attending a secret meeting that he couldn't have attended? You seethe about Jewish influence but then trust a lying Jew when it benefits you, zero principles.
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And the Israeli government got caught lying about him being a low level Persian translator, yet you expect us to believe the Israeli government's obvious lies about Iran's nuclear program.
 
Butterschmalz said:
There is war going on you fuckin bridge troll. Pack your shit. Let's go.
Don't worry about 4chan, accounts, downvoting, debates, early life,etc. That shit will solve itself. Let's fuckin go!
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Just kidding. Of course you re not going, neither am I. Because nobody cares. But I got a solid excuse. I ve been invited to that cute Israelis couples wedding:

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Catch The Rainbow said:
Israel didn't sign the NPT. Iran did. Do you understand or do I have to simplify this more
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Lmao, I had already pointed out previously that signing or not signing these international treaties make no difference. The reason Israel faced no consequences for their nuclear program is solely due to the Jewish infection spreading across the planet, which is why all treblinkans need to be removed from all positions of power permanently. Both India and Pakistan faced economic consequences due to their nuclear tests, despite the fact that they did not sign the NPT.

Can you come up with a competing theory for why some NPT non-signatories have faced consequences, while israel has not? Or will you just keep pretending international laws govern fairly across all countries?

Catch The Rainbow said:
Jews don't eat blood, have to be incredibly stupid to see a commandment saying Jews cant eat blood and think Jews eat blood
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Lmao, yea, Jews are definitely famous for following the rules of their holy books and not making up ridiculous loopholes to disobey the rules, right? A weird position to take for you, given you were a likely victim of metzitzah b'peh, you disgusting kike.

And again, Irans pre-2003 weapons program was already elucidated in the JCPOA. Whether a nuclear test occurred or didn't occur at a specific location pre-2003, is as I said, a total nothingburger.
 
TayTweets said:
You have another arab bf? Your poor wife :(

Unless they run away to another country, like someone in this thread. Why aren't you in the IDF back in Israel?
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I love how Jews go to scapegoat are the third worlders that were imported under their behest and interest.
 
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