Amazon's Invincible - thoughts?

An army of sub-40 Supermans is still enough to fuck up the whole galaxy. The issue is that they have far too many places to keep track of
A galaxy has billions of planets in it. They also need the numbers to maintain order, find new worlds across millions of lightyears and logistics to do it. Also as another dude said they keep finding threats capable of hurting them. And when they do they get angry because it kills their whole “were the most superior life in the universe” rhetoric. If Viltrumites ever had to fight the real Superman who is a good natured boyscout but stronger than they are I can just imagine them doing that handchop attack on their own necks in shame.
 
Looking like it was animated in PowerPoint aside, I really liked this episode because it was everything I wanted to see from the war.
Thragg is that guy, and I actually really like his character and his philosophy which in turn is the philosophy of Viltrum. It’s beyond might makes right, it’s that might is the highest form of truth and that leads to the dissent we saw from Thad with the old emperor. The main debate they had was about how the strong should act towards the weak.
My personal theory, having not read up on the lore, is that long long ago the Viltrumites were a relatively normal if warlike species but eventually got so advanced they could gene-edit themselves into what we see them as, and the new demigods took over because they are the strongest. Idk, it could be something really dumb for all I know.
The best scene, by far, was breaking the planet. That was absolutely fucking metal and even if that was where all five dollars of the animation budget went it was worth it. I mean, they broke a planet that’s fucking awesome. Not even to mention the reactions of everyone as the weight of the moment halts everything and they just look on in incomprehension. Peak.
My main complaint, as an autist, is again that the majority of the fighting is badly choreographed even though it was a little better than last time. I really liked when some Viltrumites actually fought like they were in space and came in from weird angles and clinched, some even went for joint holds the animation team watched at least one UFC fight this time. Thragg, of course, did nothing but farm aura and slime out some dudes negative diff, my main issue with him is that he looks like a chubby child because his face is too round but overall I love him.
Hopefully the rest of the season goes well enough, the real enemy of the show is Amazon despising the concept of animation itself.
 
Unless this is some epic AI fakeout, I have some very bad news
we all knew it was going to look like shit but this is a new low
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I just got caught up and I have some thoughts.

The Mark Vs. Conquest refight was a peak retarded shitshow. There are so many things that are just amazingly stupid about it. Mark, with his spindly pipe cleaner arms, not only manages to strangle Conquest, but he strangles him from the front at full arm length and somehow, Conquest can't get him to let go. Instead of simply grabbing Mark's arms and pulling his hands away from his throat, karate-chopping his forearms off, doing a front flip to change the angle so Mark loses his grip, or simply punching Mark in the face over and over really, really hard, he just zooms around and runs into mountains like Nappa Vs. Chiaotzu. Turns out, no amount of turning big rocks into little rocks has any effect on Mark's hand grip. He then decides to change his tactic and decides to eviscerate Mark and try to predict the future by playing with his innards. This also doesn't work, and Conquest's outlook is grim.

If Mark is going to strangle Conquest, it should've been from behind rather than up front. That way all the zipping around and smashing into big rocks would've made better sense, because Conquest can't reach or easily pull him off if he's in a nelson hold, but that would require a modicum of fight research from anybody involved in this show.

But do you wanna know what's especially dumb about this fight? Mark actually manages to asphyxiate Conquest to death. Why is that dumb? Because Viltrumites can live without breathing for months, in outer space, as demonstrated by Nolan during his exodus to kill himself by jumping into a black hole. The entire fight up until they make planet-fall occurs in space with everyone holding their breath. So Conquest can hold his breath in space just fine indefinitely but if someone's hands are wrapped around his neck his face goes purple?

Nolan can hold his breath in outer space for months but Conquest gets asphyxiated in two minutes. Make it make sense.

In all honesty, the fight should've been between Nolan and Conquest, that way not only do we get a real, worthwhile fight instead of a desperate decapitation maneuver that shouldn't work, but we would also get a nice fight comparison between Mark and Nolan with Conquest as the measuring stick.

But of course this had to be Mark's W.

I finally catch up to episode 8, and as it turns out the whole "purge the weak" nonsense was actually one great big act of decimation ordered by Grand Regent Thragg as punishment for allowing Emperor Argall get killed by Thaedus. For those who don't know, decimation is an Ancient Roman punishment that is meant to light a fire under everyone's asses to get their shit in gear. It also teaches the lesson that everyone is expendable and you could've been the one to get killed, so it's the opposite of a trust fall. I'm assuming this is supposed to somehow make better sense of the retarded self-purge eugenics shit that lead them to their kill or be killed culture. It actually kinda does make the whole thing a lot less retarded, I will admit.

Now that we're all finally done rounding up the JRPG party members, we get an actual DBZ style fight.

The lineup is:

Thaedus
Nolan
Battle Beast
Allen
Mark
Oliver
Space Racer
Zoe

Actually not really, we get a somewhat entertaining brawl but nothing actually in depth. Characters are constantly changing up opponents to race to each other's rescue. Especially between Zoe and Alan where Zoe is about to die to a Viltrumite's retaliation and Alan has to intervene. Zoe is loaded with darts containing the Scourge virus that she can shoot presumably at Thragg, seeing as how Thragg is both the main threat and the target of their decapitation maneuver. I'm noticing a pattern. Battle Beast has a jet pack and an oxygen mask.

They predictably get ambushed by Thragg's entourage when they try to sneak onto the planet by passing through the planet's ring of dead Viltrumites from the first Scourge virus pandemic. This was yet another stupid move on party Thaedus' part and they should've just tried to enter normally, because Thragg completely and utterly anticipated their infiltration attempt.

Everyone except for Space Racer roll up on Thragg, who is waiting for them in the planet's orbit. Thaedus get's ambushed by Thula from behind and she slashes him in the back with her ponytail knife. The hiding Viltrumites all reveal themselves from the ring of corpses. Thula and Thaedus brawl for a bit before switching up opponents with Battle Beast. Nolan goes for a haymaker on Thragg but Anissa intervenes and starts brawling with Nolan.

Zoe tries to shoot one of her Scourge darts at Thragg but another unnamed Viltrumite flies between them and takes the hit, Allen flies in and punches through the Viltrumite's gut and shoves his fist through the man's mouth. From a demonstrative perspective, this confirms that Allen is incapable of killing a Viltrumite one on one and can only go toe-to-toe at best in a losing fight.

Mark and Oliver are air-juggling the Viltrumite named Lucan, he tells them he should've killed them on Thraxa in a fit of rage.

Thaedus is now fighting Kregg, Kregg gets Thaedus in a bear hug and tears the slash Thula gave him further open, Thaedus headbutts Kregg and breaks his left forearm, remarking on how he's always been weak. I mean, the guy is in the top 50 of billions of Viltrumites and the right hand man of Thragg, I don't think he's that weak.

Mark is now fighting Lucan solo while Oliver predictably gets his ass kicked by an unnamed Viltrumite. Mark is also getting his ass kicked but less pathetically so. Nolan is getting tossed around by Anissa, but when she calls him soft he gets serious and punches her into deep space, chasing after. Battle Beast is still fighting with Thula, she manages to whip her ponytail knife at Battle Beast and scores a clean cut across his abdomen, Battle Beast then starts pounding his chest while demanding for more. Thaedus is getting ganged up on by three of Thragg's entourage and Nolan calls on Allen to bail him out. Zoe poisons another Viltrumite and blows him up with an explosive, though it doesn't look like it actually hurt him. Allen's rescue of Thaedus gets intercepted by a white-haird female Viltrumite.

Mark is now getting beat up by an unnamed male Viltrumite with a shaven head and mustache until Space Racer shoots the Viltrumite, saving Mark from getting his neck popped off like a cork. Kregg orders everyone to kill Space Racer before he can slay another Viltrumite, and it turns out he has a small army of eight Rognarrs leashed to his space motorcycle and he releases them all to free float in space to fight the Viltrumites. Thragg's entourage are getting straight-up butchered by the Rognarrs, they seem to be more powerful on average than the actual heroes.

This frees up enough time for Nolan to try and take a haymaker shot at Thragg. Predictably, Thragg backs up mere inches out of the way to dodge Nolan, he circles around Nolan and gut punches him down to planet Viltrum. Here they have a discussion, Thragg offers to forgive Nolan if he gives up the war and rejoins the Viltrum empire and begins serving its interests again. Nolan responds that Thragg is basically untrustworthy and pro-genocide (based based based) while Thragg argues that Nolan is basically a hypocrite for throwing his lot in with the guy who genocided Viltrum (based based based)

Cut back to the fight in space, Lucan has just fought off one of the Rognarr and thrown it into deep space, he has a chunk of meat bitten out of his forearm and claims they were just a bullshit sideshow. Thaedus, in all his sanctimony, condescends to Lucan about how other species have value 'n sheeeiiiiit. Meanwhile in the background, Anissa is punting Mark like a football. Oliver is in a headlock with the white haired woman and breaks free by elbowing her in the ribs. She reaches out to grab him again and puts him in an arm hold. Space Racer strolls in and is about to shoot the white haired Viltrumite woman when three male Viltrumites roll up on him and break open the visor on his helmet. Oxygen escapes from his helmet and he appears to slump over and die. The Viltrumite who broke Space Racer's visor gets stuck with one of Zoe's poison darts and Allen blows his guts out with a mighty fisting to his backside. He throws the corpse at one of the remaining two and starts fighting the last one remaining. Zoe goes over to Space Racer and her suit starts rebuilding his visor so he can breathe again.

Cut back to Viltrum's surface inside the capital building and Nolan is still chatting with Thragg. Nolan argues that the Viltrum empire is basically kaput and offers to ensure peace if Thragg and his entourage stand down and stop fighting. Thragg tries to appeal to Nolan's Viltrumite pride and it becomes quickly apparent they will not see eye to eye, which is ironic because the both get close up to each other's face.

Thragg then says "the death of any Viltrumite leaves a void in me" before he winds up a punch so hard that it creates a vacuum so strong that it actually sucks Nolan inward toward Thragg before Thragg slams him back into orbit with an uppercut.

It has to be said at this point that this brawl is really reminiscent of the Z Fighters Vs Saibamen + Nappa fight. Just like in that fight, there's exactly eight characters on the good guy side. The Thaedus Corp are fighting weaker enemies while the top dog watches, in this case Thragg is Vegeta. Conquest is already too busy being dead to be Nappa.

Now I know that Invincible gets compared to Z a lot, but this is just uncanny.

Oliver is the group's Chiaotzu, but without the telekinesis gimmick that made Chiaotzu at least theoretically useful, so he is utterly useless as anything other than a distraction for exactly one Viltrumite at a time. It's really miraculous that he's lasted this long and it's probably only because he's being toyed with. Battle Beast is the group's Yamcha in that he gets a small highlight but is dispatched quickly and unceremoniously. Allen is Krillin in that he dispatches several of the weaker opponents on his own but is also the best buds of the group's most powerful member. Space Racer is like Tien in that he has a one-shot kill move that dispatches enemies instantly, only in Space Racer's case, it's a weapon and in Tien's case, it's a technique that draws on his life force to let him punch above his weight... oh, and they both have three eyes. Thaedus is Piccolo in that he's a former enemy but also the most powerful non-MC hero character. Zoe is Yajirobe in that her main job is to poison Viltrumites with the Scourge virus similar to how Yajirobe cut off Vegeta's tail, and like Yajirobe with the Senzu beans, she administers "medical" aid by repairing the oxygen mask for Space Racer. Nolan and Mark are Goku and Gohan for obvious reasons. Even the Rognarr are like the Saibamen, but for the good guys.

Oliver zips in and tries to throw a haymaker at Thragg with a "witty" one-liner of "Hey dickhead, a black hole called and it wants its suck back!" only for Thragg to catch Oliver's fist in his hand and crush it. After letting go, Oliver tries to flee and Thragg simply grabs him by his other arm and backhands Oliver in the mouth so hard that his jaw comes flying off. Oliver is now out of the fight.

This show even has its own version of ineffective ki blast volleys, throwing a haymaker.

Mark witnesses Oliver being pimped slapped and breaks free from being in a headlock by the white haired Viltrumite woman. I'm noticing she has a favorite technique. Mark flies over to rescue Oliver... somehow... and is intercepted by Thragg who grapples Mark and tosses him backward. Thragg then tells Mark that he did him a favor by squashing Oliver. Mark then proudly announces that he's the one who killed Conquest (Anissa noticed that) and that he'll kill Thragg too. Thragg invites him to try. Mark then flies in toward Thragg as fast as he can and throws the heaviest haymaker-- and it fails.

lol. lmao even.

Thragg tanks it so effortlessly that he has stepped up from being Vegeta and has become Broly.

Nolan is passing through the planet's ring of corpses and is struggling to slow himself to a stop. Once he does, he sees that the fighting is still going, Allen is beating up a Viltrumite pretty hard, Zoe is being chased by a Viltrumite and that Viltrumite is being chased by a Rognarr. Thaedus and Mark are both getting clobbered and between all that, there's Oliver floating in space unconscious. He can see that this shit isn't working and getting increasingly dire so he shifts his focus over to the planet itself and comes up with an idea.

The white haired female Viltrumite fights off one of the Rognarr, Allen sees this and directs Zoe to shoot her last dart at her. The woman sees the dart coming and dodges, she thing bee lines for Zoe and Zoe has to fire a charged up plasma shot at her, the woman dodges again, only barely and it grazes her side on her abdomen. Before she can reach Zoe, Allen drops down from above and punts the woman away. Allen then gets tackled from above by Lucan and another Viltrumite who's missing an arm and a leg. Thaedus sees this and decides to throw the Viltrumite he's got in a headlock at the two Viltumites pile driving Allen to ricochet them off. Lucan throws the Viltrumite pelted at him off and flies back to continue fighting Allen. Meanwhile Allen just clocked the one-armed, one-legged Viltumite in the mouth with a right hook. Lucan flies in from behind and Allen turns to him just in time for them to lock hands.

Then I hear a weird voice, is that Battle Beast? Oh right, he's here too. He rolls up on Kregg talking a big game about worthy opponents 'n sheeiit, he takes a swing at Kregg and Kregg catches his mace with his good arm and knees him in the gut where he got slashed by Thula and Battle Beast vomits up some blood which splatters all over Kregg's face. I've noticed Kregg likes to attack existing wounds.

Oh no an actual fight is happening? Better cut back to Mark getting smacked around by Thragg. No wait, Battle Beast headbutts Kregg and throws him before zooming off to find someone else to fight. Oh and it just so happens he's about to take on Thragg? "Finally" he says, as if reading my mind. Thragg turns to the audience and simply says "No." He punches Battle Beast in the face, crushes his jet pack and hurls him into outer space.
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On the other hand, I'd like to congratulate our team's Yamcha! Congrats Battle Beast, you were not the first KO on the battle field!


You win *le gasp* nothing!

So now we're getting to the end of the fight, Nolan calls everyone to him as he knocks opponents off of his allies. Everyone gathers together in a group (except Oliver and Battle Beast lol). They're all now flying toward the surface of the planet. Nolan instructs Space Racer to go up front and to fire a beam at the planet. Anissa and some other Viltrumite tackle Zoe and Allen so they're out of the formation. When Thragg sees Space Racer point his gun at the planet, he realizes what they're planning and flies in to stop it... and nothing happens. He zips by the other Viltrumites giving chase but he neither intercepts Space Racer nor does he stop Nolan, Mark or Thaedus. The death beam from Space Racer's gun plunges into the planet's crust from one side to the other, and the three traitor Viltrumites destroy the molten core of their home planet, causing it to break apart into asteroids immediately.

I have to say, the part where the planet is erupting into a ball of fire and slowly exploding is easily the best part of this episode, and the best part of the last three seasons in fact. I felt like I was watching an actual quality show for a moment.

The fight is pretty much over and the remaining Viltrumites are stunned that their planet is just gone, except for Kregg who is visually pissed. Thaedus pats himself on the back like the faggot that he is and tells everyone it's a good thing they no longer have a place to call home. Naturally, Thragg is pissed and ambushes Thaedus, decapitating him in a heartbeat, avenging Emperor Argall. Thragg wins, lol. This is the second best part of the episode.

Thragg then tackles into Nolan with the intent of killing him next, he decides he's going to take longer killing Nolan and grind him down slowly, Mark chases after the two and they take turns fighting Thragg. Thragg is punching Nolan in the head, going on about how he made such a generous offer and Nolan spat in his face. Nolan kicks him off and flees, only for Thragg to come back and punt Nolan down and around like a football. Mark finally catches up and body tackles Thragg off of Nolan, Thragg elbows Mark in the face and uppercuts him in the jaw. Thragg then flies back over to Nolan to punch him in the face, then punch him in the face again, and he just peppers Nolan's face with punches.

Cut back to Allen, who is currently looking for Oliver, and he encounters what remains of Thragg's entourage, specifically Lucan, Kregg and an unnamed Viltrumite with dark skin and white hair and mustache. Space Racer flies by and Allen calls out to him, only for him to be intercepted by two more Viltrumites. The two black Viltrumites attack Allen, Kregg hangs back. Lucan does a summersault cannonball double ax handle. Allen blocks it, grabs Lucan and spins him around for a throw, the unnamed Viltrumite swings in from underneath to do a dive bomb summersault kick that whiffs shit and he takes a punch to the gut from Allen for his trouble. Lucan pile drives into Allen, he then stops short of a meteorite, letting Allen smash through it. On the other side, Kregg is waiting to punch him in the back of the head. The unnamed black man uppercuts Allen, sending him upward where Lucan is waiting to drop another double ax handle on Allen. Allen does a roll and spins out of it, only for the other black man to uppercut him again and get him into a choke hold. As Allen is struggling to break free, Lucan comes in to take some cheap body shots until Allen catches one of Lucan's punches and headbutts him off. Lucan comes back in to throw a haymaker (lolfail) and Allen ducks down so Lucan can punch the other black man in the face instead. Now Allen is free and knees Lucan in the gut, but before Lucan can fly off, he grabs Lucan by the arm and knees him in the gut again and swings him 360 degrees for a throw. Kregg is setting up to ambush Allen from behind but Zoe has Allen's back for once and tackles Kregg away from their location. The unnamed black man that helped Lucan gang up on Allen shows up to tackle Zoe, but he's intercepted by Space Racer and shot to death. Allen, Space Racer and Zoe decide to make a break for it since they're at a disadvantage. The Viltrumite with the missing arm and leg (now both on the same side instead of opposite sides like before) shows up and chases after Space Racer, grabbing onto his motorcycle with his one hand, Space Racer shoots him dead in the head, Kregg rages as he can only stand by and watch.

Cut back to Nolan and Mark Vs. Thragg. Thragg punches Mark in the throat causing him to gag, Nolan sweeps in for yet another haymaker... *sigh* and Thragg break's Nolan's forearm. He then throws Nolan and bee lines for Mark. Mark recovers just before Thragg can get him and they give chase. Thragg catches Mark and grabs him by his hair, he then grips him by his mouth and goes on a rant about how he could've been a Viltrumite (lol) but now Mark's gotta die. Nolan shows up the make the last rescue by punting Thragg away from Mark with *le gasp* the first successful haymaker this entire episode! Whoa!

Mark asks Nolan how they can possibly beat Thragg, Nolan turns to Mark and before he can give his answer, Thragg has already returned and has impaled Nolan through the gut with his hand. Mark is stunned by what just happened and when Thragg pulls Nolan off of his arm, Mark flies in to start ineffectually punching Thragg in the face. Thragg simply remarks "What a waste" and grabs Mark by the throat and headbutts him. Thragg then places his thumbs over Mark's eyes and starts crushing them with his thumbs as blood starts pooling out onto his face. At first Mark tries pulling Thragg's arms off but he gives up as he's blinded.

As he's about to splat Mark's head between his hands, he looks up at planet Viltrum's remains and thinks twice about killing off Mark and Nolan. What remains of his entourage, which are Kregg, Lucan, Thula, Anissa and the unnamed white haired woman, find Thragg about to kill Mark and Kregg encourages him to polish off Mark and Nolan for blowing up their planet. Thragg tells him to shut up and that they're down to too few people already.

So instead of taking Mark and Nolan with them to wherever they go to next, Thragg and his posse decide to leave them to drift in space and most likely die in the frigid cold of space. Oh but wait, Allen and his space buddies come back to retrieve Nolan, Mark and Oliver. Mark wakes up in a space hospital and finds Nolan overlooking Oliver who is floating in a healing chamber science tube. They then all have a meeting in Allen's new office, since now that Thaedus is dead the council needs a new leader and it might as well be him. They have a brief discussion on the whereabouts of Thragg and his group, Allen states they have no idea where they are or where they're located now. Mark then comes upon a terrible epiphany, the Viltrumites have gone to Earth.


So I have some thoughts.
  • Why didn't Cecil give Mark, Oliver and Nolan any of the sonic weapons they know to be a major weakness of Viltrumites? Stopping Thragg isn't just the Coalition of Planets' priority, it's Earth's priority too. Even the Immortal could've been useful if he had one.
  • Why wasn't Bulletproof brought along? He has all the same powers as Mark, he's stronger than Oliver and they're in a desperate situation where they need all the help they can get. They brought some 20 year old in an Iron Man suit but not an actual Super?
  • Why didn't they stop off at the Savage Planet to do any physical training? It's the one planet with stronger than average gravity, and both Mark and Oliver are tremendously underwhelming fighters.
  • Why don't the Viltrumites just use cloning technology to repopulate their people?
  • Why didn't they start breeding with the numbers they currently have? 50 is the actual minimum number of specimens in a species you need to avoid extinction without causing genetic disorders due to inbreeding. It wouldn't sustain them further down the line but they'd have way more people to work with and manage their empire than just 50 people.
  • Why did the Viltrumites bother with a eugenics purge if they're okay with outbreeding with inferior species like humans? Mark and Oliver are both half Viltrumite and they're incredibly weak by comparison of even average Viltrumites.
  • Why do the Viltrumites have a problem with outbreeding with some species but not others? How is Mark materially any more of a Viltrumite than Oliver? They're both half breeds and they're both embarrassingly weak.
I would also like to note, of all the characters in this show, I hate Thaedus the most. Even his name is stupid. Every time I type it I'm like "that can't be right, that's stupid" but that's really how it's spelled. This homo hippie motherfucker isn't just a Benedict Arnold, he's a La Malinche. This tree hugging faggot murdered his leader from behind with a dagger in the dead of night in an ambush. That itself might not be so bad, but when Thragg takes power, Thaedus decides to genocide his own entire species by infecting it with a lab made pathogen because "being a space imperiawist is wrong and huwtfuw to da poor awiens UwU" This would be like a human going into outer space and coming back to infect everybody on Earth with a Space Death plague to spite humanity over WW2 while espousing "nature is healing" rhetoric. There's a million things this nigger could've done before resorting to assassination and mass murder, but instead of changing hearts and minds, he makes a martyr of the guy whose philosophy he disagrees with, which causes Argall's disciple to ramp up all the same shit Argall believed in to new heights and stringent extremes. Thragg did nothing wrong. Thaedus did everything wrong.
 
I FOUGHT CONQUEST!
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I FOUGHT CONQUEST TWICE!
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I FOUGHT THRAGG!
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Bro, just go home at this point and get normal job. You are not that guy.
The best part about him "fighting" Thragg is that he at least TRIES to keep fighting back against Conquest while he's almost getting Red Rushed, meanwhile Thragg crushed his hand once and he immediately realized it was time to get the fuck outta there and go back to splattering the Victim Twins back home.
Battle Beast is the group's Yamcha in that he gets a small highlight but is dispatched quickly and unceremoniously.
The fans, the show's presentation of him, and the fact that
he eventually fights Thragg toe to toe
had me thinking this guy would be moving like Broly, but I don't think he has a single kill to his name right now.
Even the Immortal could've been useful if he had one.
It's weird because season 1 Immortal would unironically be a better candidate than almost half of the individual fighters here by virtue of not being a TOTAL glass cannon, (matter of fact, just give him or Nolan Tech Jacket's armor instead and this show is OVER) but now he canonically gets no-diffed by a mark that was explicitly weaker than main mark at the time who was probably weaker than Nolan, so he'd somehow be the first one dying.
 
You guys are nitpicking their powers and stuff, meanwhile I'm wondering why Nolan wrote secret messages to himself in his books for absolutely no reason

They even remind the audience: "ah yes as you know, I am aware of Viltrumite weaknesses because I read the books that I personally wrote with my own firsthand knowledge"
 
You guys are nitpicking their powers and stuff, meanwhile I'm wondering why Nolan wrote secret messages to himself in his books for absolutely no reason

They even remind the audience: "ah yes as you know, I am aware of Viltrumite weaknesses because I read the books that I personally wrote with my own firsthand knowledge"
Didn't he write those for Mark?
 
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