Legend of Zelda thread - Lorefags GTFO!

Lone Star said:
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That's an easy one.
Zelda games used to always be kind of a sister series to Mario Bros. They'd make the flagship title then do a little Zelda as a treat. OoT is maybe the most obvious example (being on a hacked up Mario 64 engine) but it was like that from the beginning. Link's Awakening is an exception because some guy just kind of did it without being asked but Game Boy development was usually nuts, and they threw in all that franchise cameo stuff anyway.

So obviously if you're japanese and do enough shrooms, Peach and Zelda are the same fucked-up evil whore pulling the strings and Luigi is her weird green genetic experiment to torture a version of Mario for eternity. Eventually he turns into Link, still with the "Courage" theme but now patched with a golden brain chip and everyone telling him he's the hero, while Mario slips out of sight to try and defuse things from behind the scenes.

Of course it's not totally consistent because the respective series directors have to get really drunk together to pass on the secret. Plus I made it up. But I believe it.
 
That Witch said:
If we're talking remakes, why not take one of the 2D games and remake it to 3D or something? That could be neat-- maybe the Oracle games.
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OoT was a better written LttP running in a heavily modded version of the 3D Mario engine. The Oracle games are kind of hard since they were made by Capcom after acquiring a license to the Zelda IP. It's the same reason wand of gamelon, faces of evil, Zelda's Adventure, and the minish cap won't ever get rereleases/remasters regardless of being the most beloved entries in the series.
 
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Gimmick Account said:
That's an easy one.
Zelda games used to always be kind of a sister series to Mario Bros. They'd make the flagship title then do a little Zelda as a treat. OoT is maybe the most obvious example (being on a hacked up Mario 64 engine) but it was like that from the beginning. Link's Awakening is an exception because some guy just kind of did it without being asked but Game Boy development was usually nuts, and they threw in all that franchise cameo stuff anyway.

So obviously if you're japanese and do enough shrooms, Peach and Zelda are the same fucked-up evil whore pulling the strings and Luigi is her weird green genetic experiment to torture a version of Mario for eternity. Eventually he turns into Link, still with the "Courage" theme but now patched with a golden brain chip and everyone telling him he's the hero, while Mario slips out of sight to try and defuse things from behind the scenes.

Of course it's not totally consistent because the respective series directors have to get really drunk together to pass on the secret. Plus I made it up. But I believe it.
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BUT THAT'S JUST A THEORY
 
macrodegenerate said:
OoT was a better written LttP running in a heavily modded version of the 3D Mario engine. The Oracle games are kind of hard since they were made by Capcom after acquiring a license to the Zelda IP. It's the same reason wand of gamelon, faces of evil, Zelda's Adventure, and the minish cap won't ever get rereleases/remasters regardless of being the most beloved entries in the series.
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Jack Garland said:
You'd have to be dumb or just disingenuous to call her "black/brown." Japan designs actual dark-skinned characters differently. Sonia is designed like every other light-skinned character, and has a tan as you pointed out. She's a "brown girl," which is not the same as being black or brown. Cia is the same thing, though I always assumed her skin turned darker after she was corrupted and split off Lana (since her "guardian of time" outfit gives her light skin).
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Japs view evil women as tanned, blonde, lipstick wearing and long nails, aka dirty skanky sluts
 
macrodegenerate said:
OoT was a better written LttP running in a heavily modded version of the 3D Mario engine. The Oracle games are kind of hard since they were made by Capcom after acquiring a license to the Zelda IP. It's the same reason wand of gamelon, faces of evil, Zelda's Adventure, and the minish cap won't ever get rereleases/remasters regardless of being the most beloved entries in the series.
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I feel like the b-b-but Capcom argument is the same as the b-b-but Rare argument against Nintendo ever bringing K. Rool back.

My personal schizo theory is that Nintendo themselves view Oracles and TMC as really "minor" Zelda games that nobody cares about, being completely tone deaf to what fans actually think about those games. I honestly believe that Nintendo has a (false) perception that Zelda fans and "the west" only care about ALttP, LA and the 3D games.
 
macrodegenerate said:
OoT was a better written LttP running in a heavily modded version of the 3D Mario engine.
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They have a similar story and the light/dark world duality, but OOT was a pretty radical departure from the gameplay established in LTTP and LA. Similarly, Super Mario 64 had the same old "The Princess is Kidnapped!" story, but again, they radically changed the gameplay with the jump to 3D. R&D4/EAD just had a habit of rehashing the same story over and over for every series for quite some time. Star Fox 64 having basically the same story as Star Fox is another good example.
 
Never Scored said:
They have a similar story and the light/dark world duality, but OOT was a pretty radical departure from the gameplay established in LTTP and LA. Similarly, Super Mario 64 had the same old "The Princess is Kidnapped!" story, but again, they radically changed the gameplay with the jump to 3D. R&D4/EAD just had a habit of rehashing the same story over and over for every series for quite some time. Star Fox 64 having basically the same story as Star Fox is another good example.
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Nintendo is a company that focus on reshaping the gameplay formula into something that is fun but really struggles when it comes to the story, or rather key story points.
Its not that they cannot write a different story, but they often struggle at replacing characters and villains alike, with Zelda and Mario being the worst offenders of this:
The last mainline Mario game where Bowser wasn't the main antagonist were either the first 2 Marioland entries or SMB2 usa.
And Ganon too (or some weird incarnation of him) appears as the final boss in most Zelda games, to the point where the narrative has reached the post-irony and its subverted with shit like echoes of wisdom.
 
Sleazy Car Salesman said:
Without gatekeeping this shit will continue to happen.
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Gatekeeping to keep out trannies and retards is based.
Gatekeeping from some false position as a "community leader" is retarded.

The first prevents the second. Gotta gatekeep to keep out the people who will give the "fan base" a bad reputation. It's specifically done to keep grifters like this "Bea" tranny out.
 
Gatekeeping to keep people out of Zelda communities can be problematic. Luckily I gave the guard some mask his son wanted and he opened the gate to Kakariko Village, so I was able to get into the community. But yeah, totally gay and a pain in the ass to gatekeep like that.
 
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Strangolapreti said:
Nintendo is a company that focus on reshaping the gameplay formula into something that is fun but really struggles when it comes to the story, or rather key story points.
Its not that they cannot write a different story, but they often struggle at replacing characters and villains alike, with Zelda and Mario being the worst offenders of this:
The last mainline Mario game where Bowser wasn't the main antagonist were either the first 2 Marioland entries or SMB2 usa.
And Ganon too (or some weird incarnation of him) appears as the final boss in most Zelda games, to the point where the narrative has reached the post-irony and its subverted with shit like echoes of wisdom.
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I think it's fine if games like that have little story. At the end of the day, it's the gameplay that's the key part of the game, and some games that are really old have even thinner or nonexistent plots.

That said, an occasional change of pace might be good, especially to help prevent stagnation.
 
Never Scored said:
Gatekeeping to keep people out of Zelda communities can be problematic. Luckily I gave the guard some mask his son wanted and he opened the gate to Kakariko Village, so I was able to get into the community. But yeah, totally gay and a pain in the ass to gatekeep like that.
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Simply clip into any community you want.
 
Nico Nico Nikola said:
That said, an occasional change of pace might be good, especially to help prevent stagnation.
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Zelda used to do it, as you would get a title without Ganon in sight after every entry featuring it: Zelda 2 had Ganon appear if you game over, but otherwise he's absent, then you get fan favourite titles like Link's awakening and Majora's masks, Minish cap and Panthom's hourglass are also there.
Mario has its spin-off titles to cover it, but I'd argue that was never enough and nintendo REALLY fucking needs to put say "so long gay bowser" and put him and his army on vacation for a a couple titles at minimum.
 
I somehow always forget how little Ganondorf himself actually appears in the franchise. Not counting non-canon stuff, Tears of the Kingdom is only his fourth appearance since Ocarina of Time. Dude went on a long-ass hiatus after Twilight Princess. Hell, Ganon took a long vacation after that too, his only real appearance until Breath of the Wild being A Link Between Worlds where he was just fusion material for the game's actual villain.
 
Lone Star said:
I somehow always forget how little Ganondorf himself actually appears in the franchise. Not counting non-canon stuff, Tears of the Kingdom is only his fourth appearance since Ocarina of Time. Dude went on a long-ass hiatus after Twilight Princess. Hell, Ganon took a long vacation after that too, his only real appearance until Breath of the Wild being A Link Between Worlds where he was just fusion material for the game's actual villain.
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The people who say there's too much Ganon have only played the core games (that feature him), and are the same types that complained about the series needing to change. I think a lot of people felt burned by Ganondorf undercutting Zant (I liked the set-up), and view Demise as an obvious Ganon-proxy. The game has a lot of cool, really varied villains alongside Ganon. It's surprising to me that all these years later, we've still only had one other recurring bad guy (Vaati).
 
Jack Garland said:
The people who say there's too much Ganon have only played the core games (that feature him), and are the same types that complained about the series needing to change. I think a lot of people felt burned by Ganondorf undercutting Zant (I liked the set-up), and view Demise as an obvious Ganon-proxy. The game has a lot of cool, really varied villains alongside Ganon. It's surprising to me that all these years later, we've still only had one other recurring bad guy (Vaati).
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Ganon is usually kept as the final boss but scarcely appears during the game he's featured in, more likely being a presence manipulating shit behind the stage.
Its kind of a bullshit take to think "People wrong if they say Zelda has too much Ganon" because Its not the case, he has been present in nearly every games and Nintendo should try cutting him from games more and more.
I can even back it up by providing a comprehensive list of Ganon appearances across mainline games.
  1. Zelda: Ganon is mentioned at the start and serves as the final boss.
  2. Zelda 2: Ganon appears in the game over screen.
  3. ALTTP: Agahnim was Ganon all along.
  4. Link awakening: Ganon is the second last form the final boss takes, he also turns into Agahmim before.
  5. OoT: Where he has the most appearances, and drives the plot around.
  6. Oracle games: his planned resurrection drives the whole plot of both games, also he's the final boss.
  7. Wind waker: Final boss and main villain, probably the best incarnation of the character too.
  8. He wasn't in Four sword, but the game was mulitplayer only AND came with ALTTP, so it never mattered.
  9. Final boss of Four sword adventure.
  10. Twilight princess: it undercuts Zant.
  11. Skyward sword: Demise is the origin point of Ganon.
  12. Spirit track: Mallard may not be Ganon, but he shares its colour scheme and title, also the form he assumes at the end is a mishmash of multiple versions and traits of past Ganon/Ganondorfs.
  13. Link between worlds: Yuga absorbs Ganon and takes his appearance.
  14. BotW: Main baddy and final boss.
  15. TotK: Also main baddy and final boss.
  16. Echoes of wisdom: Game starts with Ganon and Link fighting and its portrayed as if its standard shit (because it is).
This leaves only Majora's mask, Minish cap, Phantom hourglass (ignore the intro cutscene that explains you Wind waker) and Triforce heroes (which was shit) as titles where Ganon is completely absent, you could still stretch it to exclude Link awakening and even Four swords, but it would still make it 13/20 titles where Ganon or a Ganon lookalike is a major plot point in a mainline Zelda game.
And regard stuff I consider non-mainline:
  • All 3 CD-I games featuers Ganon as the main baddy.
  • The animated series has Ganon as the main baddy.
  • Playable Ganondorf in Hyrule warriors and smash bros.
  • Ganon is the main villain in Light of courage.
Leaving only Tingle's game and the crossbow practice as the only non-mainline games where Ganon is completely absent.
 
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Jack Garland said:
are the same types that complained about the series needing to change.
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Do you feel a shakeup in the main 3D series was unwarranted? I think a lot of long time fans had checked out by Skyward Sword because even though they were very different thematically, there was a lot of repetition in terms of dungeon design, puzzles and the overall structure of the game between OOT, Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. How many times is shooting an eye or lighting a torch to get a key to open a door so I can get a piece of something from the boss to open another something to move on to the second part of the game going to be interesting?

I miss the full dungeons when I play BOTW, but one of the things I really liked about it is how it introduced different types of puzzles. There were a lot that were much more physics based which there hadn't been a lot of in the series up to that point. If the next game is too similar to BOTW or TOTK, it's going to show they didn't learn their lesson, and they're probably going see a drop off after that, similar to the one between TP and SS.
 
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