Culture The Bull Pit - Pitbull News Megathread - aka sperginity speds out agendaposting

https://www.cheknews.ca/pit-bull-attack-near-nanaimo-injures-two-children-and-one-woman-450395/

https://archive.ph/8jiC9

Two 8-month-old pit bulls that were loose in Nanaimo attacked several children, severely injuring at least one. Other people that came to aid the children were also injured.

The children were playing in a yard at the house of one of their friends. The dogs were from somewhere else in the neighborhood and had been cited for being at large previously.

One of the owners of the dogs came and got the dogs but did not stick around. The news interviewed the other owner, a Dangerhair that looked to be in her late 40s or early 50s. While she was devastated at what her dogs had done, she said to the reporter, "People are saying, look at this from the prospective of a parent, well, these dogs are my kids, too," and then she broke down crying.

It was later reported both dogs were euthanized, as there have been other incidents prior to this one, and due to the severity of the injuries the one particular child sustained.

To the dangerhair dog owner I would have to say, "If these dogs were your KIDS, you did a lousy job of raising them. Thank heavens you didn't spawn any of your own."

 

[Wigger Rights Advocate]

All dogs are required to be on a leash when outside of a fenced in area. In reality there are too many dogs and not enough people to go around doing enforcement. And too many idiots who just refuse to do the work to put in a fence.

I feel like the muzzle being mandatory would be a good idea but you're right I don't know if anyone would even enforce it. I wonder if I had a neighbor with a pitbull and they were acting recklessly, maybe I'd call the cops and they'd just tell me to mind my own business...

...when, if you think about it, not wanting a murder machine near me IS minding MY business

 

[Rootless Cosmopolitan]

There isn’t any ‘fixing them’ through breeding, because even the ones that have never attacked still share genetics with ones that have. The breed is notoriously unpredictable.

Iirc some couple bred docile pitbulls and no one wanted them because they didn’t have blocky heads/the overly muscled “pitbull look” anymore and were just normal dogs. I watched a YouTube video on this but it was like 6 years ago.

 

[Gurney Halleck]

Don't pitbulls have to be on a short leash and muzzled in public where you guys live? They have to in my country. They also need to be neutered and registered. AND the owner needs to have a clean criminal record

I feel like all of this heavily reduces the amount of pitbulls, since most people just won't bother getting one when they could get another dog much easier. Which is probably why I've only ever seen one pitbull irl (the owner was a Chinese lady, funnily enough)

Not only is breed specific legislation considered controversial in America because pit mommies have such an outsized influence when it comes to dog culture, but a lot of states outright prohibit breed specific legislation from being enacted (both red and blue, it's disgustingly bipartisan). And realistically, the only time any laws are going to be enforced is when the shitbull is actively attacking someone.

 

[Coldgrip]

I think the one on top might be a French Bulldog. Do they count as SMASHED and SLAMED?

 

[Getmeout]

There isn’t any ‘fixing them’ through breeding, because even the ones that have never attacked still share genetics with ones that have. The breed is notoriously unpredictable.

That is literally the point of fixing them through breeding.

It’s easy to selectively breed for appearance and general temperament. Propensity to unexpectedly ’snap’ and maul others to disfigurement and death, not so much.

Temperament is linked to "snapping", dogs react different ways to different environments due to their temperaments. Pitbull's breeded temperament inherently includes random outburts. It's why they're so great at killing.

Don't pitbulls have to be on a short leash and muzzled in public where you guys live? They have to in my country. They also need to be neutered and registered. AND the owner needs to have a clean criminal record

Not in my country, but that's great! That's going to make it that the ones who own them are actually equipped to. A bit off topic but I've noticed that to be a good pitbull owner, you have to be a bit of a bitch. You have to be willing to yell "STOP." at your pit for the smallest slight, it's kinda awkward watching the guy I know go "STOP IT! DOWN!" everytime she stares at someone for a bit, but I get why it's necessary.

Iirc some couple bred docile pitbulls and no one wanted them because they didn’t have blocky heads/the overly muscled “pitbull look” anymore and were just normal dogs. I watched a YouTube video on this but it was like 6 years ago.

The blocky heads and muscles are to make them better fighters, so ya, breeding that out of them would severly nerf them. Said pitbull I know is kinda flabby and small, I feel like that contributes to her always losing squabbles.

Honestly the blocky heads aren't good for breathing either, so either way they should be bred out.

I've personally only met one bad pitbull owner. He kept the pit on a veeeeeery long leash. I smiled and asked to pet it, but as I approached I noticed it's tail go between it's legs and it started shaking before barking and jumping and frothing at the mouth. The owner just smiled at me and was like "Go on, pet him, he doesn't bite.". I stepped back and he was like "No, don't worry, lemme--" he then LOOSENS THE LEASH FURTHER and the pit bolts at me as I run off.

 

[SITHRAK!]

That is literally the point of fixing them through breeding.

How do you select for individuals that don’t bite? Wait until they’re dead and have never bitten anyone? Because any pitbull can potentially go on a mauling rampage at any time.

You can only breed for known and observable traits. You can’t breed for unobservable traits. If you have a proposal to get around that, I’m all ears.

Temperament is linked to "snapping", dogs react different ways to different environments due to their temperaments. Pitbull's breeded temperament inherently includes random outburts. It's why they're so great at killing.

My point still stands. Even placid and socialized pitbulls have been known to suddenly and unexpectedly go on mauling rampages. Pitbull violence doesn’t present phenotypically and therefore cannot be isolated from the breeding pool. Maybe after twenty or thirty generations of selective breeding you might be able to achieve a reduced chance of pitbull aggression, but is it worth the effort?

I've noticed that to be a good pitbull owner, you have to be a bit of a bitch. You have to be willing to yell "STOP." at your pit for the smallest slight, it's kinda awkward watching the guy I know go "STOP IT! DOWN!"

Ever wonder why pitbulls aren’t showing up as emergency rescue animals, guide dogs, sniffer dogs, service dogs and the like? It’s because training alone is not sufficient to guarantee they won’t go berserk and attack people or other animals. Professional dog trainers prefer to work with breeds that have stable and predictable temperaments.

Your argument hearks back to the idiotic “blame the deed, not the breed” and “it’s not the dog, it’s the owner” arguments that the PIDF rolls out every time we see footage of a pibble owner futilely trying to drag their murdermutt off a person or another animal. Training is not a guarantee that they’ll never go berserk, nor is it a guarantee that they will cease attacking on command.

 

[AnOminous]

Don't pitbulls have to be on a short leash and muzzled in public where you guys live? They have to in my country. They also need to be neutered and registered. AND the owner needs to have a clean criminal record

Nobody obeys any of that shit. They just let their vile murderous shitdogs run completely rampant all day long, one second away from mauling and murdering a child at any time. This is why you should just shoot a shit bull at any opportunity.

 

[Getmeout]

How do you select for individuals that don’t bite? Wait until they’re dead and have never bitten anyone? Because any pitbull can potentially go on a mauling rampage at any time.

There's already efforts to breed the bad out of pitbulls, you could look into how they operate. Iirc it's that they choose the ones who have gone long enough not attacking anyone, and breed them with even gentler dogs. Ergo, why eventually, they're bred to just look less strong. But don't quote me, search it up, bro.

You can only breed for known and observable traits. You can’t breed for unobservable traits. If you have a proposal to get around that, I’m all ears.

Well I'm not a breeder, but I'd presume basic addiction works here. Even if those unobservable traits are there, if you breed in enough docile genes, that cancels out the unobservable trait. It's like there being a dirty hole, you can't see in the hole cause it's so deep, but if you spritz enough Clorox in it, eventually it's definitely gonna get clean. Even if you can't see it.

My point still stands. Even placid and socialized pitbulls have been known to suddenly and unexpectedly go on mauling rampages. Pitbull violence doesn’t present phenotypically and therefore cannot be isolated from the breeding pool.

How do you think they got it in the gene pool in the first place?

Ever wonder why pitbulls aren’t showing up as emergency rescue animals, guide dogs, sniffer dogs, service dogs and the like?

Cause they're not for that. I wouldn't use a pug as a service dog, it can barely even see for itself, why would I trust it to see for me? It's not for that either. Certain dogs just aren't cut out for certain jobs.

It’s because training alone is not sufficient to guarantee they won’t go berserk and attack people or other animals. Professional dog trainers prefer to work with breeds that have stable and predictable temperaments.

I don't remember when I said training alone will keep a pitbull down, iirc, didn't I mention how if you're going to own one, you have to make sure it's weak and even then have someone who realistically could kill it with their bare hands on stand by? I don't subscribe to the idea that dogs are "Fur babies", any dog, not just pitbulls. They're wolves, they're impaired wolves. You're not it's "mom", you're it's master. Act like it.

Your argument

We're arguing????

and “it’s not the dog, it’s the owner” arguments that the PIDF rolls out every time we see footage of a pibble owner futilely trying to drag their murdermutt off a person or another animal.

If you attempting to drag your dog away from anything can best be described as "futiley" you shouldn't be owning a pitbull. Or tbh, any dog.

 

[Falcos_Commisar]

Recent example, courtesy of r/BanPitbulls

Spoiler: Retarded Owner

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Spoiler: NSFL

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Holy fuck literally looks like a Walking Dead or Cabin fever zombie

 

[Getmeout]

I expect the dog hate forums to grow in the future. If pitnutters truly cared about their dogs, they'd do as every other breed advocates do when their breed becomes faddish and overbred and put in shelters: tell people to not get pits if they aren't a good fit, and to stop recklessly breeding their dogs because of all the humane issues it creates.

I will say this: The woman mentioned upthread with the 6 pits, for all her strangeness, is saying for owners to stop breeding their dogs because of overpopulation in the shelters. I'm hoping that other pit owners start listening to her, and they might listen to her more because she shows her dogs in the pictures and they'll be able to see that she isn't a 'pit hater.'

I looooove pitbulls, and I agree with this. "I love pitbulls, they're so cute" and "They're bred to kill and are as close to owning a wolf as you can get" are not mutually exclusive sentences, they just make you look a bit insane, and yes I am a bit insane.

Breeding for them just has to cease now, there's already too many of them, all pitbulls should be neutered and I'd say 90% of pitbull owners shouldn't own a pitbull. I don't think they need to be eradicated, but they should be made "endangered", make it to where a few exist and it's rare to get one. And even if you do get one, you have to follow a bunch of discouraging protocol, that'll make lazy owners fuck off.

To me, owning a pitbull is like owning a cheetah. I don't think cheetahs should all be tortured and killed, but if someone tells me "I'm a single cheetah mommy, did you know they're actually nanny cats? I always let my five year olds play with them" I'd be horrified.

 

[SITHRAK!]

But don't quote me, search it up, bro.

Burden of proof’s on you, sorry.

Even if those unobservable traits are there, if you breed in enough docile genes, that cancels out the unobservable trait

And how do you prove that the unobservable trait has been eliminated? Pro tip: you can’t.

Well I'm not a breeder

Clearly. I’m a former farm boy who bred chickens as a hobby and has relatives in working dog and show cat breeding, and was lucky enough to study genetics in both high school and college, so I’m not just spitballing here.

Cause they're not for that

And why are they not for that? If the breed was predictable and could be reliably trained to not be suddenly and irrationally hyperviolent, wouldn’t trainers be able to place them in such roles?

How do you think they got it in the gene pool in the first place?

Breeders observed the tenacity of the bulldog and the aggression of the terrier and crossed the breeds to create a fighting dog with these qualities. It’s because they could observe the presence of these behaviors that they selected these breeds to cross.

However, pitbull aggression and ‘fighting style’ is hardwired into genetics, so the best you can say is “animal A does not yet exhibit behavioral traits X, Y and Z” and pray that it doesn’t maul someone after you’ve allowed it to spit out 20-30 pups and they have gone on to have pups of their own.

Absence of biting history is not proof that the animal is disinclined to biting, just that it hasn’t done it yet. Breeding for a gentler temperament is pointless when that temperament is not proof that the dog will not bite.

Your point about crossbreeding with more docile breeds is well taken, and has the best chance of fixing the breed’s issues. The problem is that the offspring are no longer actually pitbulls, and so the issue of pittie psychosis hasn’t really been fixed at all, just diluted.

The kinds of wannabe tough guys and “I can fix him” pittie moms who are fans of the breed are the first to use the ‘maybe it was the other breed’ arguments when a pittie cross mauls someone. Cross mixes are also notorious for higher-than-usual rates and severity of attacks than the non-pit breed they’re crossed with.

My opinion is that the breed in its current form is not redeemable. Not by breeding, not by training. YMMV.

We're arguing????

Aren’t we? You’re proposing a scientific impossibility then telling me I’m wrong when I point it out.

I looooove pitbulls

I fucking knew it. You’re in the wrong thread, motherfucker

 

[Getmeout]

And why are they not for that? If the breed was predictable and could be reliably trained to not be suddenly and irrationally hyperviolent, wouldn’t trainers be able to place them in such roles?

It's almost like the breed isn't predictable and can't be reliably trained to not suddenly be irrationally hyperviolent. It's almost like I never said this wasn't the case.

Your point about crossbreeding with more docile breeds is well taken, and has the best chance of fixing the breed’s issues. The problem is that the offspring are no longer actually pitbulls

Who cares tbh? We made up all these names, tomorrow we could start calling borzois pitbulls if we wanted to. Redefining a pitbull to be a mixed breed ain't bad, as long as it's still close enough to a pitbull. Even if it's not idrc.

My opinion is that the breed in its current form is not redeemable. Not by breeding, not by training. YMMV.

Coo'.

My opinion is that it's there's something about bringing a wolf in your home and then going "What the fuck!? The wolves are KILLING PEOPLE!? MY wolf never kills anyone!" that makes me think. Pitbull hate is partially a small symptom of the mass delusion that's been going on for centuries that dogs are "supposed" to be cute and cuddly. I'm not discounting the deaths, rather I'm validating them. Yes, pitbulls are dangerous, and these pitbull owners delude themselves that they're not because we've deluded ourselves that dogs as a whole aren't animals. They're "babies".

The phrase "family dog" never should've been.

Aren’t we? You’re proposing a scientific impossibility then telling me I’m wrong when I point it out.

I'm not telling you anything bro, this is a discussion forum for voicing your thoughts, I'm voicing my thoughts. Idgaf if you hate pitbulls, you replied to me. I didn't come here to debate, cause nothing in this thread affects me.

I fucking knew it. You’re in the wrong thread, motherfucker

Bro thinks he caught me, bro thinks I didn't already say that, bro thinks I'm scared of a thread that hates a dog breed I like, bro thinks I'd care if he successfully petitioned for all pitbulls to be shot 87 times in the chest as if I see a dog's life as equal to a human's like every retarded dog owner.

 

[Accept Only Substitutes]

To me, owning a pitbull is like owning a cheetah. I don't think cheetahs should all be tortured and killed, but if someone tells me "I'm a single cheetah mommy, did you know they're actually nanny cats? I always let my five year olds play with them" I'd be horrified.

Imma do a well, actually here wrt cheetahs. There are no verified human deaths via wild cheetahs and only 14 reported attacks on humans via captive cheetahs with only one death.

Cheetahs are the tamest of the big cats, and as long as they have enough land to run on, you can actually have one as a pet without too much worry. (Standard disclaimer applies of course, they’re still a powerful wild animal) There’s photos and stories of people falling asleep on the ground in a cheetah enclosure and waking up with a big cuddly cat next to them. Cheetahs are anxious (in captivity especially) so some zoos raise the cubs along with a golden retriever puppy and the two animals end up being best friends.

Cheetahs are pretty cool, mostly chill little doods.

Your point is still correct, I just like to sperg about cats.

 

[Paper Machete]

What would be the point of fixing pit bulls? You have so many other dog breeds that are already proven and just work as dogs are intended to.

I think some people just want to try to grasp for magic solution where everyone gets to have their cake and eat it too. But pit bulls are clearly a problem breed end of story. Ethical breeders wouldn't bother "fixing" them because ethical breeders wouldn't be drawn to them in any way shape or form. Most breeders start doing what they do because they fall in love with a particular breed/type of dog and want to contribute to its continued existence.

 

[Getmeout]

Imma do a well, actually here wrt cheetahs. There are no verified human deaths via wild cheetahs and only 14 reported attacks on humans via captive cheetahs with only one death.

Cheetahs are the tamest of the big cats, and as long as they have enough land to run on, you can actually have one as a pet without too much worry. (Standard disclaimer applies of course, they’re still a powerful wild animal) There’s photos and stories of people falling asleep on the ground in a cheetah enclosure and waking up with a big cuddly cat next to them. Cheetahs are anxious (in captivity especially) so some zoos raise the cubs along with a golden retriever puppy and the two animals end up being best friends.

Cheetahs are pretty cool, mostly chill little doods.

Your point is still correct, I just like to sperg about cats.

Fun fact, that's ACTUALLY why I chose cheetahs.

It's not like owning a lion, where it will definitely kill you, a cheetah could theoretically not kill you like how a pitbull could theoretically not kill you. But still, you wouldn't trust a single mom owning one, or 90% of people.

What would be the point of fixing pit bulls?

Cuz I wanna.

I think some people just want to try to grasp for magic solution where everyone gets to have their cake and eat it too.

It'd be nice. But like I said idrc if all pitbulls get euthanized. I won't lobby for it, cause I'd prefer they don't, I also won't lobby against it. But if they do it literally doesn't affect me. It's just a dumb dog.

 

[SITHRAK!]

It's almost like I never said this wasn't the case.

And yet you’re in here defending pibbles while also saying they’re dangerous. Pick a lane.

We made up all these names, tomorrow we could start calling borzois pitbulls if we wanted to. Redefining a pitbull to be a mixed breed ain't bad, as long as it's still close enough to a pitbull.

Composition fallacy. We’re talking about genetics, not nomenclature. And you still are asserting that they could be selectively bred to eliminate mauling without saying how to get around the unobservability problem.

Pitbull hate is partially a small symptom of the mass delusion that's been going on for centuries that dogs are "supposed" to be cute and cuddly.

No, it’s a reaction to their hyperviolent and unpredictable nature and prolonged mauling attacks, exacerbated by a group of online lunatics bending over backwards to excuse the behavior.
But let’s take your post at face value. I think we might both agree that pitbulls are not suitable as pets. They’re also not suitable as working dogs, which leaves what? Fighting dogs? Yeah civilized societies left that shit behind decades ago. There are no reasons to own a pitbull, then.

I'm voicing my thoughts

You’re expressing points of view that are scientifically wrong, then going to bat for them when called out.

bro thinks I'm scared of a thread that hates a dog breed I like

It’s a pretty dumb thing thing to do, bro. Go make a pitbull lover’s thread instead of shitting up a thread that’s pretty clearly anti-pitbull. Neither of us is going to change the other’s mind, so why continue?

 

[Getmeout]

And yet you’re in here defending pibbles while also saying they’re dangerous. Pick a lane.

no.

But let’s take your post at face value. I think we might both agree that pitbulls are not suitable as pets.

By what we currently define as a pet, yes. That's what I meant when I said that pitbull hate is a symptom of the mass dog delusion period. We are now at a place where we believe pets can replace children, other dogs can pretend to be your kid and pretend to not want to rip your pampering cunt throat out, a pitbull can't. So by our psychosis induced definition of a pet, no, a pitbull cannot be a pet.

America made "dog parks", as long as that's the mindset we're still in, no one should own a fucking dog.

You’re expressing points of view that are scientifically wrong, then going to bat for them when called out.

It’s a pretty dumb thing thing to do, bro. Go make a pitbull lover’s thread instead of shitting up a thread that’s pretty clearly anti-pitbull. Neither of us is going to change the other’s mind, so why continue?

This isn't your safe space and you're not entitled to a metaphysical border on a forum, I wanted to reply to someone so I did. Then you chose to talk to me, I don't care to change your mind. You replied to me trying to change my mind.

 

[SITHRAK!]

This isn't your safe space

It’s not yours either, which is why I felt comfortable pointing out you don’t know shit about breeding or genetics. You have a great day.

 

[Getmeout]

You have a great day.

You too

 

[Paul Revere Pantry Raider]

Now kiss.