Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[Zarkov]

I can't believe how off their rockers those people are. Kylo is obviously meant to be an ANTIFA manbaby. Silly journalists.

 

[Xerxes IX]

What about Kylo is remotely man-childish? Is it because he reminds them too much of Trump for being white or some shit like that?

If anything, Kylo actually seems more relatable than Darth Vader in my eyes.

I would love to see what these guys would have thought of prequels Anakin if this is their reaction to Kylo (Besides that article about him creeping on Padme). You even see him recruited to the side of the not by coincidence Hitler-like Palpatine right on screen.

 

[PsychoNerd054]

Here's the entire article written by The Mary Sue, fitting title:

[Note: This article contains spoilers for Star Wars: The Force Awakens and Star Wars: The Last Jedi]
Fan reactions to Star Wars: The Last Jedi are … shall we say, divided, but most viewers seem to agree that Kylo Ren makes for an excellent, easy-to-hate villain. Adam Driver’s performance as the “new Vader” of the trilogy is remarkably compelling, and the screenwriters also give him all the most devastating and callous kills in the new trilogy. He’s a well-written, well-performed villain. But I think there’s another reason the character is resonating: Kylo Ren, in his petty and dangerous fascist rage, is a villain that we can all recognize in 2017.

He’s an alt-right manbaby.

Dominated by his own fear and childish needs, without any coherent ideology except for his own hate and lust for power, Kylo is as petty and immature as he is dangerous. And no matter how badly the people in his life want to save him, his only way out is to grow the hell up. And that’s something no one else can do for him.

Kylo is incredibly powerful, but he is also incredibly childish. When the Rebels escape him in The Force Awakens, he throws a ludicrous temper tantrum with his lightsaber. In The Last Jedi, Luke goads him by appearing via projection, and the Resistance goads him with the Millennium Falcon, because they all know his personal, childish desire to destroy those things will distract him from the First Order’s strategic goals. Even Snoke calls him “a child in a mask,” mocking the pretensions of his pseudo-Vader mask and voice modulator. He is a boy’s unintentional parody of the imaginary, long-lost manhood he wants to emulate. Like the “alpha males” of the MRA movement, he makes himself ridiculous by emulating something that never existed as he imagines it did.

However, the new trilogy never pretends that this childishness makes his rage any less dangerous, or any more forgivable. His furies are petty, but they kill people. Like the alt-righters who marched in Charlottesville wearing those ugly white polos, Kylo is ridiculous – but he is also monstrous. In having him kill Han Solo and out-Snoke Snoke, both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi present Kylo as someone who isn’t seduced by the Dark Side, but actively courting it.

Of course, when we say Kylo is childish, we don’t just mean the pettiness and immaturity, the lashing out and the silly costume. We also mean that he is scared and desperate. He has been genuinely failed by the men in power, and so he has no real role models. His mentor, Luke, failed him and tried to murder him. His father, Han Solo, we don’t know much about. But seriously, do we imagine that the smuggler was a great, stable dad? Doubtful. The men Kylo thought he was supposed to emulate turn out to be nothing special, fallible and frail like the rest of us.

And so Kylo turns to the First Order, an ideology that tells him his rage and pain are the valid and just reactions to a sick world that needs to be burned clean.

He has allied himself to an old and established evil, but he thinks he’s invented something new and powerful. His first line in the new trilogy, “Look how old you’ve become,” demonstrates his contempt for the old world order that he believes he is above. And yet he has tied himself tightly to that order, enforcing the old-school fascism of the Empire while convincing himself that, even though the First Order employs the same hierarchy, methods, and goals, it’s a totally new and different version of that thing. Just like the alt-right tries to repackage fascism and white supremacy with a new label, Kylo believes that he is creating a newer, superior vision of empire.

But perhaps the most damning and crucial part of Kylo’s characterization is that the good guys really, really want to believe in Kylo, even though they shouldn’t. Just as we see scores and score of sympathetic portraits of Trump voters, and unconscionably gentle write-ups of alt-right bigots from outlets like Mother Jones and The New York Times, we also see Rey desperately trying to believe that if she just reaches out, if she can just understand the pain and anger that motivate Kylo, then she can convince him to make the right decision.

But the angry, proto-fascist man-boys won’t change. They will repeatedly make the worst and cruellest decisions – not because they have to, but because they want to. Kylo doesn’t have to kill his father; he wants to. When Rey reaches out, we know it’s futile, even if she doesn’t.

Because that same anger and pain that makes her empathize with him is what makes him dangerous. Kylo isn’t actually that into fascism; he’s into power. He wants to destroy his past far more than he wants to enforce a New World Order. He wants to feel powerful and strong far more than he wants to govern.

What the First Order gives Kylo is a promise that he is “something truly special,” that because of his bloodline he is destined for greatness, if only he can get the clunky, stupid world out of his way. As Laurie Penny wrote, the wounded man-children of the new far-right are “hurting other people deliberately, in order to up-cycle their uncomfortable emotions, reselling the pain they can’t bear to look at as a noble political crusade.” The fact that their emotions drive them to fascism makes them more dangerous, not less.

After all, you can argue with fascist ideology. But you can’t argue away fascist feelings. You can only fight them.

 

[Muttnik]

The movies place a heavy amount of focus on the conflict going on within Kylo and the fact that even he himself is not sure if what he is doing is right or not. That's pretty easy to feel for. If anything, the movies so far have been primarily concerned with Kylo above all others having the biggest character arc because there's a need to see him be better than what he's become. It's nice to have a character that can play both the tantruming emo and the complex character in need of redeeming because it certainly adds some much-needed flavor to an otherwise lacking series of sequels.

.............but LOL nope. He's clearly Drumpf incarnate.

 

[Android raptor]

Yeah Kylo's a goofy edgelord that doesn't really know what he wants or believes, if anything he'd totally be a snarlgender wolf/demonkin whatever with Columbine headmates who pitches a fit because his mom won't call him dark/darkself and ascribes to whatever political ideology is most trendy and edgy at the time.

If anyone would be alt-right it's Hux.

EDIT: according to the novels Snoke had also been grooming and manipulating Kylo for literally his entire life in ways that a few people have compared to the kinda shit a child molester does. So not only are they completely misunderstanding him as a character, they're also insulting a child abuse victim which is something you think TMS wouldn't find kosher.

 

[Mola Ram]

The ability to see meaningful political allegory in this clownshit flick about space wizards and intergalactic Nazis says waaaaaaay more about the writer than the movie.

 

[Android raptor]

The ability to see meaningful political allegory in this clownshit flick about space wizards and intergalactic Nazis says waaaaaaay more about the writer than the movie.

Especially since the writer gets many of the details about said movie blatently wrong (since when did Kylo want to kill Han? I thought it was pretty obvious he didnt want to do it at all).

As I've mentioned I really hope Kylo gets a redemption arc not just because I like him, but because the SJW salt would be amazing because how dare they redeem a white cis male literal Hitler.

 

[SuperSheep]

What about Kylo is remotely man-childish? Is it because he reminds them too much of Trump for being white or some shit like that?

Eh, hacking up panels and rooms because shit went down does give off an aura of temper-tantrum throwing crybaby.
Hell, the body language the two Stormtroopers show suggests this isn't an uncommon occurrence.

 

[Hodor]

That hasn't cratered the transformers movies and I don't think it'll do jack shit to Nu Star Wars.

the last knight actually really underpreformed, especially in the Chinese market.

maybe we shouldn't be naming things 'The Last [x]'.

 

[Android raptor]

I've also noticed that even a lot of the fanboys that hated Kylo in TFA like him now after TLJ, and not in a "love to hate" way, as in they find him sympathetic and compelling. The main group that seems to just hate him and find him completely unsympathetic now are SJWs, because they refuse to empathize with a white dude.

 

[OwO What's This?]

The major problem I have with the film is mostly from a structural standpoint as it is rather bullshit that Holdo gives Po Dameron a dressing down about going to give a dressing down about reckless actions then to go recklessly hyperdrive the ship into the fleet. Why didn't she do that in the first place and save the vast majority of the fleet?

I'm not sure I see what's so reckless about that, the ship was supposed to go down to save everyone else anyway. I think the reason it wasn't considered as an option in the first place was because they weren't initially supposed to be distracted blowing up the 30 getaway ships. Therefore, they didn't notice what she was up to until it was too late.

That said, if lightspeed jumping a ship can have that sort of effect, I don't understand why it's not done more often, that's the big plot hole in my book. We established that ship was out of the dreadnought's range for a lot of the time (or whatever ship that was called) so it would've been far more safe to establish a frontline and prepare a ship for lightspeed jump like shooting a torpedo out, rather than doing that bombing run where everyone died.

Maybe it's because the rebel mothership was so huge that it had a really powerful lightdrive that could do that kind of damage and one wouldn't normally sacrifice a ship that big and important, I don't know.

Why didn't she tell a hotheaded commander like Po Dameron the plan?

Well first of all, he was demoted so the chain of command probably didn't make him eligible for that information. I imagine the reason everyone isn't told that is because of spies that would tell the... First Order?... what the plan is.

which by the way the smuggler shouldn't even know about because Finn and Rose weren't aware of the plan.

My best guess is that this was the result of a scene cut from the theatrical release (the movie was already running long) where Finn and Rose were talking to Po about what he was doing to stall and give them more time, and the smuggler was listening in.

The humor of the movie works against it with most points of humor going to undermine the emotional levity of the scene.

I see this criticism a lot and it never really rang true with me. I've always felt like finding humor in morose situations is part of what makes people human and to not have that just makes them feel more like robots. I mean, granted, some of the humor was childish, but this movie needs to appeal to kids somehow.

Not to mention, what is the point of blowing up the bridge with Leia? To show she can be Super Leia to never mention it again? The fact she is bed ridden in most of the film makes that whole scene pointless and takes away from the fact that most major players in the resistance have just died.

Po was prepared to kill anyone coming through that door, but he'd never fire on Leia.

Why should we really care how Kylo Ren turned to the dark side when all is explained that Snoke got to him, where the hell did this guy come from? How was this man able to turn Ben Solo to the darkside while he was in the Jedi Academy? Where the hell did the rest of jedi that Kylo Ren captured went to?

Are those details really that important? Does the series have to tell you every little thing?

Not to mention it is rather comical the way that Snoke died in the film going into a grand speech about how he cannot be betrayed and he sees everything but he couldn't see the lightsaber being turned on him.

The RLM people said it best, this was kind of like a reversal of our expectations of having something reversed, and I quite liked it. You didn't know if they would actually go through with the obvious thing or if they were just going to do another twist. But the ACTUAL twist was that Kylo didn't actually turn to the light side and instead he just wants to tear everything down. That caught me off-guard, admittedly.

I am sorry, I am glad you can like this film, but so many problems as a legit film has undermined alot of my enjoyment of it so like I said, go enjoy the movie along with half of the internet, I will continue to dislike it or perhaps one day be meh with it.

I mean, granted, I like it; it's my favorite of the movies made after the original trilogy, but the original trilogy still blows it away. I think I'd like it way more if Po, a character we are supposed to emphatize with, didn't keep constantly keep getting everyone killed and then being forgiven for it. Either his plans shouldn't have been so fucking disastrous or he should've been summarily executed.

I think it was a 7/10, worth seeing but I'd never consider it one of my favorite movies. Bear in mind, that's pretty high praise coming from me because I haven't really liked most movies made in the past 10 years. I'd rather watch this than 2009's Star Trek.

 

[SuperSheep]

the last knight actually really underpreformed, especially in the Chinese market.

maybe we shouldn't be naming things 'The Last [x]'.

Having seen The Last Airbender, I can get behind this.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

the last knight actually really underpreformed, especially in the Chinese market.

maybe we shouldn't be naming things 'The Last [x]'.

Don’t you talk about The Last Starfighter like that!

 

[OwO What's This?]

Also, I listened to Sargon's review of this movie today. It was complete and utter faggotry and made me like him way less. Deconstructing every single scene of the movie to fit his political narrative was so fucking cringy I couldn't make it through the entire video.

When I was first hearing it I thought he was going to go 'lol just kidding gaiz people who do this are complete lolcows' at some point but he never did, I checked.

I never really understood the hate Sargon got on Kiwi Farms when I first started listening to him early in the year, but now that he's running out of good 'targets' to poke fun at, I'm starting to understand where everyone is coming from.

 

[Shokew]

Also, I listened to Sargon's review of this movie today. It was complete and utter faggotry and made me like him way less. Deconstructing every single scene of the movie to fit his political narrative was so fucking cringy I couldn't make it through the entire video.

When I was first hearing it I thought he was going to go 'lol just kidding gaiz people who do this are complete lolcows' at some point but he never did, I checked.

I never really understood the hate Sargon got on Kiwi Farms when I first started listening to him early in the year, but now that he's running out of good 'targets' to poke fun at, I'm starting to understand where everyone is coming from.

Unlike you, I sat through his (Sargon's) whole diatribe on TLJ... Unlike RLM, he can't review films for shit (FACT)... And shouldn't anymore, honestly.

And I'm ignoring the fact that he's done some unforgivable shit as of late, especially going by his hands in the whole (now dead/defunct) Kilroy thing.

 

[DeadwastePrime]

Also, I listened to Sargon's review of this movie today. It was complete and utter faggotry and made me like him way less. Deconstructing every single scene of the movie to fit his political narrative was so fucking cringy I couldn't make it through the entire video.

When I was first hearing it I thought he was going to go 'lol just kidding gaiz people who do this are complete lolcows' at some point but he never did, I checked.

I never really understood the hate Sargon got on Kiwi Farms when I first started listening to him early in the year, but now that he's running out of good 'targets' to poke fun at, I'm starting to understand where everyone is coming from.

Unlike you, I sat through his (Sargon's) whole diatribe on TLJ... Unlike RLM, he can't review films for shit (FACT)... And shouldn't anymore, honestly.

this is why i get my reviews from jeremy jahns

 

[Tranhuviya]

The atmosphere of today's Hollywood is is inamicable to what Star Wars was pre-Disney. That is: the work of a single auteur, a writer-director. It's all done by committee now, by focus-group now. And it's all gotta be big blockbusters with what we recognize! Lightsabers, big walkers, X-Wings, etc. I doubt they'll ever diverge from that formula.

Compare the major beats of the OT's plotlines with that of the ST. They line up almost exactly. I could go and on about shared visuals, but I'll save you the time and say it outright. Disney is just replicating the original trilogy, but worse.

 

[Y2K Baby]

The atmosphere of today's Hollywood is is inamicable to what Star Wars was pre-Disney. That is: the work of a single auteur, a writer-director. It's all done by committee now, by focus-group now. And it's all gotta be big blockbusters with what we recognize! Lightsabers, big walkers, X-Wings, etc. I doubt they'll ever diverge from that formula.

Compare the major beats of the OT's plotlines with that of the ST. They line up almost exactly. I could go and on about shared visuals, but I'll save you the time and say it outright. Disney is just replicating the original trilogy, but worse.

Funny how this talking-point is now equally regurgitated.

 

[Tranhuviya]

Funny how this talking-point is now equally regurgitated.

The ubiquity of an opinion doesn't make it any less true, though.

 

[Y2K Baby]

The ubiquity of an opinion doesn't make it any less true, though.

That validity of an opinion (lol) doesn't make it any less ironic.