Containment What If?

pencil said:
CWC only has the copyright because neither Sega nor Nintendo has bothered to challenge it, since I’m sure neither plan to ever sell anything Sonichu-related. If they were to appeal to have CWC’s copyright revoked on the grounds that Sonichu is derivative of intellectual property they own and/or so similar to intellectual property they own that the average consumer would be confused, that trademark would be overturned in a heartbeat.
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No, derivative works are a thing in copyright law. The creator of a derivative work owns his work. Chris has a valid copyright on Sonichu.
 
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Marvin said:
No, derivative works are a thing in copyright law. The creator of a derivative work owns his work. Chris has a valid copyright on Sonichu.
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https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/what-are-derivative-works-under-copyright-law

Yes, if CWC was either the original copyright holder on the trademark for Sonic and Pikachu or got permission from the holders. The original copyright holder has the exclusive right to create derivative works, and Sonichu isn’t a parody so a fair use exception wouldn’t apply.
 
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pencil said:
https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/what-are-derivative-works-under-copyright-law

Yes, if CWC was either the original copyright holder on the trademark for Sonic and Pikachu or got permission from the holders. The original copyright holder has the exclusive right to create derivative works, and Sonichu isn’t a parody so a fair use exception wouldn’t apply.
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That article is factually incorrect in a few areas, and glosses over some important details.

The privileges copyright confers are best described as negative, not positive.

Having copyright on a work doesn't grant you the right to perform or sell it, it grants you the right to prevent other people from doing those things. You might be restricted from doing those things yourself for unrelated reasons, but you still have a valid copyright.

Copyright stays with the author. Sega cannot claim to have physically drawn the Sonichu comics. Only Chris can. As the author, he has copyright over those drawings.

Trademarks are unrelated to copyright.
 
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Marvin said:
That article is factually incorrect in a few areas, and glosses over some important details.

The privileges copyright confers are best described as negative, not positive.

Having copyright on a work doesn't grant you the right to perform or sell it, it grants you the right to prevent other people from doing those things. You might be restricted from doing those things yourself for unrelated reasons, but you still have a valid copyright.

Copyright stays with the author. Sega cannot claim to have physically drawn the Sonichu comics. Only Chris can. As the author, he has copyright over those drawings.

Trademarks are unrelated to copyright.
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Sega certainly doesn’t own Sonichu but wouldn’t CWC be prevented from profiting from Sonichu due to the fact that he doesn’t have the right to profit from a character that’s entirely derivative of others original creations?
 
pencil said:
Sega certainly doesn’t own Sonichu but wouldn’t CWC be prevented from profiting from Sonichu due to the fact that he doesn’t have the right to profit from a character that’s entirely derivative of others original creations?
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You've got some reading to do. Make sure to let Chris know what you find.

51ZBg7o9kQL._SX397_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
 
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pencil said:
Sega certainly doesn’t own Sonichu but wouldn’t CWC be prevented from profiting from Sonichu due to the fact that he doesn’t have the right to profit from a character that’s entirely derivative of others original creations?
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More or less, yeah.

Though that's what kicked off our conversation in the first place:
Marvin said:
Chris has a copyright on Sonichu. They'd have to actually pay him royalties to use Sonichu.
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Also, it's more helpful to think less about characters and more about works. You can't copyright a character like Sonichu, you copyright each work (like each issue of Sonichu) that Sonichu appeared in. If your work incorporates material from an existing work, the copyright holder can demand royalties or forbid you from publishing your work. But you still have copyright on what you created, even if it incorporates existing material.

This is important because people think that just because Sonichu rips off a bunch of stuff, that Chris doesn't own his own stupid scribbles. He definitely does own his scribbles. So if Chris got pissy at someone, he can demand they take down their fan art of Sonichu. Whether or not Chris can profit off of Sonichu himself is mostly irrelevant. (It factors in if Chris wanted to demand damages, but if he doesn't, he might still be able to at least get the fan art taken down.)

Of course, there's parody and other exceptions that might come up, both in Chris' favor and against.

And then there's trademarks, which are much more complicated.
 
Marvin said:
More or less, yeah.

Though that's what kicked off our conversation in the first place:

Also, it's more helpful to think less about characters and more about works. You can't copyright a character like Sonichu, you copyright each work (like each issue of Sonichu) that Sonichu appeared in. If your work incorporates material from an existing work, the copyright holder can demand royalties or forbid you from publishing your work. But you still have copyright on what you created, even if it incorporates existing material.

This is important because people think that just because Sonichu rips off a bunch of stuff, that Chris doesn't own his own stupid scribbles. He definitely does own his scribbles. So if Chris got pissy at someone, he can demand they take down their fan art of Sonichu. Whether or not Chris can profit off of Sonichu himself is mostly irrelevant. (It factors in if Chris wanted to demand damages, but if he doesn't, he might still be able to at least get the fan art taken down.)

Of course, there's parody and other exceptions that might come up, both in Chris' favor and against.

And then there's trademarks, which are much more complicated.
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OK, thanks for the explanation. Just what benefit does Chris have from his copyrights then? If he is unable to formally publish or profit off his work?

If someone were to take an issue of Sonichu, trace it and copy it, maybe making a few small changes (say, coloring Sonichu purple instead of yellow), they’d be in the same position as CWC? Have a copyright on their comic but be unable to formally publish it or profit off of it?
 
pencil said:
OK, thanks for the explanation. Just what benefit does Chris have from his copyrights then? If he is unable to formally publish or profit off his work?

If someone were to take an issue of Sonichu, trace it and copy it, maybe making a few small changes (say, coloring Sonichu purple instead of yellow), they’d be in the same position as CWC? Have a copyright on their comic but be unable to formally publish it or profit off of it?
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When it comes to fan art, there's a substantial gray market, as we've seen with Chris for the past few years.

Sega and Nintendo won't stoop as low as to sue a retard like Chris. But in the world of small fries, Chris' copyright could theoretically have some use to him.

He's just never bothered to file DMCAs or anything like that. He's pretty chill about fan art. (Probably because he likes it more than his own drawings.)
 
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Does anyone know what exactly Chris trademarked? I’ve searched the USPT office database and nothing comes up for Sonichu. Did he do a simple word trademark, or did he submit images of Sonichu and trademark it the way logos/designs are trademarked?
 
pencil said:
Does anyone know what exactly Chris trademarked? I’ve searched the USPT office database and nothing comes up for Sonichu. Did he do a simple word trademark, or did he submit images of Sonichu and trademark it the way logos/designs are trademarked?
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He didn't trademark anything. Just copyright. And he fucked up the registration papers, heh.
 
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