Disaster Spelunking with Children: a Thai recipe for disaster

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/07/asia/thai-cave-spirits-intl/index.html
https://archive.fo/57bES



tl;dr: a bunch of preteen children go diving in a cave in Thailand and are stuck. From what I've been told, they need to learn how to scuba dive and independently remove themselves from the network.

So we're doing this PRICE IS RIGHT style. Bet on how many children you think will survive! The adult is not counted, no one cares about him.

Latest: Rescue mission is underway.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...b0cb7e6f6c2fd7#block-5b419526e4b0cb7e6f6c2fd7
http://archive.is/hSeqL

• Thai authorities have confirmed that a rescue operation is under way.
• At 10am local time they sent 18 divers into the cave to bring out the boys – including 13 international divers and five Thai navy Seals. The former governor in charge of the rescue operation called the international divers “all-stars” and the Thai divers “five of our best”.
• Water levels have dropped significantly since Saturday, and officials say that they are now at “peak readiness”.
• Officials would not confirm if the boys would have to dive out of the caves, but said that water levels had dropped enough that much of the cave network was walkable.
• It might take up to two days for all the boys and their coach to come out. The boys will be brought out one by one.
• Officials said that they might stop and start the operation “depending on weather”.
• The first rescued boys could come at 9pm local time on Sunday.
• The children are said to be in high spirits and “ready to go”. The families have been informed about the plan and have also agreed.
• Earlier today all media and non-rescue personnel were cleared from the cave site area.
• The coordinator of the rescue efforts said rescuers were still in a “war with water and time” as monsoon rainclouds loomed over the north of the country early on Sunday.
• The 12 boys and their football coach have been trapped inside the cave for 15 days now, after they ventured into the caves on 23 June and got trapped by rising waters.
• They were discovered by British divers on Monday night after a nine-day round-the-clock search involving teams from all over the world.

---

Some notes:
- an thai ex-navy seal died putting up breathing stations underwater (or something)
- it's not just water they have to scuba through, it's fast and hard currents with very little vision as the water is murky as a mo-fo
- kids have already been down there for several days, at least 3 are getting so fatigued they don't think they'll make a scuba trip
- rough estimates say the kids will have to be underwater (with scuba gear) anywhere from 30-90 min. Could be longer with more skittish kids.
- from entrance to where the boys are is roughly 3 miles... there are technically 3 flooded areas but only one is completely fucked. so even if they get through the fucked one, they still have two more flooded tunnels to deal with and 3 miles of walking

They were saying they might have to stay there until monsoon season is done, which is next November.

This is the path they want them to take, but apparently there's some side/dead-end tunnels the boys might accidentally go into while underwater.

-Also read that they aren't telling the kid the ex navy guy died because they don't want the kids freaking out...which is probably smart.

I've seen it in four news sources so I'm counting it as good info....

HALF of the boys can't swim.....plus "To reach them, expert divers must carefully traverse jagged passageways, occasionally narrowing to the width of a person, forcing divers to remove their breathing tanks from their backs and enter like a pencil, taking extra care not to snag their wetsuit. The tunnels are pitch black. The water is muddy and cold. The whole journey can take up to six hours."

Rescue mission is a go

Article

 

[Johnny Bravo]

If he dies I hope they bring KFC to his grave. A promise is a promise!

 

[DICKPICSRUS]

Rescue mission is a go

Article

Thai rescue: Divers start mission to free boys trapped in cave
Tham Luang caves,Thailand (CNN) — The perilous mission to evacuate 12 boys and their 25-year-old coach trapped deep inside a flooded cave in northern Thailand is under way, Thai authorities announced Sunday.
"Our readiness is at the highest today. Today is D-day," said Chiang Rai's governor, Narongsak Osotthanakorn, adding that the families had been informed of the plan and given their support to the rescue effort.
At 10 a.m. local time, an international contingent of 13 specialist divers descended into the watery network of underground tunnels below the Mae Sai mountains, carrying with them the hopes of an entire nation.
The plight of the stricken boys, who have remained trapped inside the caves for 15 days, has transfixed Thailand, as rescue efforts have become ever more urgent.

Rescuers have what has been described as a dwindling window of opportunity, with forecasters predicting the return of heavy monsoon rains in the coming days, effectively sealing off the cave until October.
Race against time
At the site of the caves, volunteers assisting in the operation described the rescue attempt as a "now or never" scenario.
The boys and their coach are huddled together in a small chamber 4 kilometers (2.5 miles) inside the cave, surrounded by flood water and with a limited supply of oxygen.
To reach them, divers will need to successfully navigate a network of sprawling narrow tunnels, with officials close to the operation suggesting rescuers will use a "buddy" system, with each diver paired with a child. Extra oxygen tanks will also be positioned along the route.
Signs that a rescue operation was under way were evident in the hours leading up to the announcement as authorities installed a large green tarp around the cave entrance and removed media from outside of the camp to a separate location.
On the road leading to the tunnels, a near continuous convoy of trucks and military vehicles delivered troops and medical equipment, including a large cache of oxygen tanks. On Saturday evening, numerous international military advisers could be seen entering the site, followed later by four monks in orange robes.
At the entrance to the site, a newly placed, thin white decorative flag fluttered in the wind, a Buddhist sign to indicate positive energy.

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High risk
Hopes had been high that an alternative means of rescue would be discovered. For days, specialist teams have scoured mountains above the cave in search of a possible hidden entry point.
Divers have previously described conditions in the cave network as some of the most extreme they have ever faced.
The decision to remove the boys using divers would not have been taken lightly. On Friday, a former Thai Navy SEAL died while returning from an operation to deliver oxygen tanks to the cave where the boys are located.
Even if the divers are successful, it will be many hours before the fate of the boys and their rescuers will be known. Thai authorities say it takes around 11 hours for divers to complete the round trip.

Men from the Department of Disaster Prevention and Mitigation arrive to the cave entrance on July 6, in Chiang Rai, Thailand.
Finnish volunteer diver Mikko Paasi, a long-term resident of Thailand, said the death of the Thai Navy SEAL had changed the mood on the ground and made real for rescuers just how dangerous the mission had become.
"Definitely, you can feel it that it has an effect, but we're moving on. Everyone is a professional so we're trying to put it away and avoid it happening again," he said, adding: "Everybody is focusing on getting these boys out -- keeping them alive or getting them out."
Spirits high
In the hours preceding the rescue, a letter the boys had sent to their families was published on the Thai SEALs' Facebook page. The letter shows the boys in good spirits despite their ordeal.
In neat blue handwriting, 11-year-old Chanin Viboonrungruang, the youngest of the group, told his parents not to worry, and said he was looking forward to eating fried chicken.
His parents, who along with other families, have maintained a constant vigil at the site since the boys first became trapped.

Chanin Viboonrungruang, 11, is in his final year of Anubanmaesai primary school in Mae Sai.
On reading the letter Saturday evening, Chanin's father, Tanawut Viboonrungruang, said he felt a great sense of relief. "I had been worried about my son, that he would be exhausted, he would be tired," he said.
For families the wait for news of their boys' rescue has been excruciating.
"I was worried about him as there are obstacles to extract him out. Everyone knows that it is difficult to stay inside (the cave) but the officials are trying (to help him)," said Viboonrungruang.
"I hope he is still healthy and would come out soon. I want to send my support to him. I don't have a chance to talk with him," he said.
CNN's Jo Shelly, Kocha Olarn, Sandi Sidhu and journalist Lalinda Siripornmanut contributed to this report.
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[Johnny Bravo]

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

Thai Soccer Team Take My Energy

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ​

 

[mindlessobserver]

The issue is psychological. So long as they don't panic the escorts can get them out. If they do panic they die.

So yeah. Take a 12 year old kid underwater in a closed space with no light and make sure he does not panic.

 

[DICKPICSRUS]

They are trying to pump the water out

 

[Johnny Bravo]

It's fucked up but I hope at least one of them dies so everyone's not all "PRAISE JEEBUS IT'S A MIRACLE THANK YOU TO GOD AND NOBODY ELSE!"

They'll still do that even if only one makes it out. If nobody makes it out they'll say, "Well, I guess it was God's plan for them to drown in a dark cave."

 

[Nobunaga]

Nobodys talking about the real issue here
Does the operation have a tacticool name?

 

[Xetzyr]

Everyone involved in this rescue, including the kids themselves, has balls of steel.

 

[Johnny Bravo]

Nobodys talking about the real issue here
Does the operation have a tacticool name?

C.A.V.E.

Cool-Ass eVacuation Extravaganza

 

[Okkervils]

The issue is psychological. So long as they don't panic the escorts can get them out. If they do panic they die.

So yeah. Take a 12 year old kid underwater in a closed space with no light and make sure he does not panic.

Well, the coach is a (former?) monk and he's been trying to instill the value of meditation in them for 2 weeks. Who knows, man.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Well, the coach is a (former?) monk and he's been trying to instill the value of meditation in them for 2 weeks. Who knows, man.

It's a pretty existential horror. PADI (The diving certification organization) won't even let you start practicing for cave dives until you have mastered deep ocean diving with limited light and visibility. The human mind is not equipped for dealing with so many phobias at once. Darkness, isolation, underwater, tight quarters. The fact that there is no way up is immediately obvious to you in such situations. No matter how prepared you are that fear is going to be there. My own diving instructor commented that he has never cave dived because he did not want to die. As far as extreme sports go, this up there with free rock climbing.

To take kids who have been given rudimentary diving training on a cave dive with 1 confirmed kill already smacks of desperation.

 

[Okkervils]

It's a pretty existential horror. PADI (The diving certification organization) won't even let you start practicing for cave dives until you have mastered deep ocean diving with limited light and visibility. The human mind is not equipped for dealing with so many phobias at once. Darkness, isolation, underwater, tight quarters. The fact that there is no way up is immediately obvious to you in such situations. No matter how prepared you are that fear is going to be there. My own diving instructor commented that he has never cave dived because he did not want to die. As far as extreme sports go, this up there with free rock climbing.

To take kids who have been given rudimentary diving training on a cave dive with 1 confirmed kill already smacks of desperation.

Mm. I don't disagree, just trying to remain hopeful. I really don't understand the appeal of diving whatsoever, it sounds terrifying.

I feel a bit better after hearing that the majority of the cave is walkable, but who knows...

 

[waffle]

To take kids who have been given rudimentary diving training on a cave dive with 1 confirmed kill already smacks of desperation.

You're right, but I think 3/12 will make it. It's always been my thought that about a quarter of all people are basacially super survivors who will rise to pretty much any occasion and have a pretty good chance of making it through. Also, kids are scrappy as shit. One of the biggest limitations on people is "knowing" we can't do something, kids just plain old believe in them selves more.

 

[Secret Asshole]

It's a pretty existential horror. PADI (The diving certification organization) won't even let you start practicing for cave dives until you have mastered deep ocean diving with limited light and visibility. The human mind is not equipped for dealing with so many phobias at once. Darkness, isolation, underwater, tight quarters. The fact that there is no way up is immediately obvious to you in such situations. No matter how prepared you are that fear is going to be there. My own diving instructor commented that he has never cave dived because he did not want to die. As far as extreme sports go, this up there with free rock climbing.

To take kids who have been given rudimentary diving training on a cave dive with 1 confirmed kill already smacks of desperation.

Cave diving stories and death pretty much go hand in hand. The nitrogen and oxygen mixtures and shit get really tough with cave diving, which is why even deep ocean divers and experienced divers don't touch it. Because if you get that wrong, you will die, guaranteed. At least if you fuck up diving you can just go up. Not with cave diving where there are very confusing conditions.

People have gotten disoriented and drowned when safety was close to them, but they were simply not prepared for it. There are also stories of people getting lost in underwater caves and rescuers drowned along with them.

Cave diving is terrifying and you have to be fucking re.tarded to do it. They put skull and crossbone signs under water near these caves and stupid fucks still do it and drown.

Obviously when shit like this pops up you have to do it. But recreationally? Fuck no.

 

[Leo Bonhart]

article

I atleast hope the youngets survives so he can get some kfc.

I guarantee you the kid is dreaming of double-fried, Asian-style chicken... potentially with a sticky-sweet chilli sauce coating and not cow-sized, hormone-laden drumsticks whereupon 7 of the 13 secret spices are salt. Godspeed, teenaged Epicurean.

Edit: I was wrong. The boy explicitly stated that he wants KFC. May he soon be going where buckets of Colonel are flowing.

 

[repentance]

It's a pretty existential horror. PADI (The diving certification organization) won't even let you start practicing for cave dives until you have mastered deep ocean diving with limited light and visibility. The human mind is not equipped for dealing with so many phobias at once. Darkness, isolation, underwater, tight quarters. The fact that there is no way up is immediately obvious to you in such situations. No matter how prepared you are that fear is going to be there. My own diving instructor commented that he has never cave dived because he did not want to die. As far as extreme sports go, this up there with free rock climbing.

To take kids who have been given rudimentary diving training on a cave dive with 1 confirmed kill already smacks of desperation.

These kids have already had to deal with some of those horrors over the last two weeks. That they're even alive means they've developed some degree of mental toughness. I think a lot is going to depend on their ability to trust the divers in the same way they trusted their coach when he led them to higher ground - something which must have been a terrifying ordeal in itself.

I'd be shocked if none of them die, but I'd also be surprised if not one of them makes it.

 

[Okkervils]

Cave diving stories and death pretty much go hand in hand. The nitrogen and oxygen mixtures and shit get really tough with cave diving, which is why even deep ocean divers and experienced divers don't touch it.

I forgot all about that... Nitrogen narcosis. Yuri Lipski is a diver who died from it, got so confused by it he just kept diving deeper and deeper while panicking. Accidentally filmed his death. And this wasn't even cave diving.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/atlas_ob...ue_hole_of_dahab_on_the_red_sea_in_egypt.html

Edit: luckily, this phenomenon shouldn't be a concern in this case.

 

[RodgerDodger]

It's a pretty existential horror. PADI (The diving certification organization) won't even let you start practicing for cave dives until you have mastered deep ocean diving with limited light and visibility. The human mind is not equipped for dealing with so many phobias at once. Darkness, isolation, underwater, tight quarters. The fact that there is no way up is immediately obvious to you in such situations. No matter how prepared you are that fear is going to be there. My own diving instructor commented that he has never cave dived because he did not want to die. As far as extreme sports go, this up there with free rock climbing.

To take kids who have been given rudimentary diving training on a cave dive with 1 confirmed kill already smacks of desperation.

I was part of a joint Padi/Naui program to certify and train Emergency Services Divers. Police and Fire Search and Rescue teams. Before I was injured I was a PADI Divemaster for a Fire Rescue Team and held the full range of PADI certs. I am also a fully trained and certified expert in SCBA gear and Fire Search and Rescue and Collapse Rescue. Working blindly in the dark, manipulating breathing gear, moving through narrow confined spaces etc is second nature. I Cave Dove ONCE to complete that certification and swore to absolutely positively never fucking do that again. As did all of my fellows. Quite frankly a dozen trapped kids might be the only thing on earth that would get me to try it again, it is that insanely stupidly unforgivably dangerous. I think people who willing Cave dive for fun and recreation are suicidal madmen and deranged psychotics. I honestly don't even understand the purpose of cave divers. There is nothing to see or find in a water filled cave save the certain dread that you are going to die there. Wreck diving is dangerous. Cave diving is playing Russian roulette with 5 bullets. PADI has long considered scrubbing the training from their program and just saying Fuck No. (I think Naui might have, but I would have to check on that.)

Cave diving stories and death pretty much go hand in hand. The nitrogen and oxygen mixtures and shit get really tough with cave diving, which is why even deep ocean divers and experienced divers don't touch it. Because if you get that wrong, you will die, guaranteed. At least if you fuck up diving you can just go up. Not with cave diving where there are very confusing conditions.

People have gotten disoriented and drowned when safety was close to them, but they were simply not prepared for it. There are also stories of people getting lost in underwater caves and rescuers drowned along with them.

Cave diving is terrifying and you have to be fucking re.tarded to do it. They put skull and crossbone signs under water near these caves and stupid fucks still do it and drown.

Obviously when shit like this pops up you have to do it. But recreationally? Fuck no.

depth is a funny thing with Cave Diving. Most Cave Diving is actually fresh water or brackish water. There aren't a lot of open ocean salt water caves. Typically you find cave systems in Florida or some deep quarries and caves in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. They are spring fed and ongodly cold. One problem with Caves is it is very hard to keep honest track of your depth. And when you can, you cannot adjust it via ascent the way you can otherwise. Your time underwater is based on depth. The deeper you are the less time. The deeper you are the greater volume of air and therefore nitrogen you injest with each breath. The longer you stay the more nitrogen dissolves in your blood under pressure. This is actually less of a problem in caving as you are rarely that deep (unless you are exceptionally stupid.) But you can so easily become disoriented and lost. And once that happens you are dead. You are stuck in there until your air runs out.

Nitrogen Narcosis will not be a major issue in this rescue. It doesn't look like the water exceeds 20-30' deep at any point. So less that 2 atmosphere pressure. They can sit there all day with no nitrogen issues using simple air. They just have to worry about the air supply holding out for three hours each.

 

[Xetzyr]

If they're smart they'll give them a light dose of narcotics to keep them calm and feeling good.

...or at the very least a good stiff drink.

 

[Your Weird Fetish]

I forgot all about that... Nitrogen narcosis. Yuri Lipski is a diver who died from it, got so confused by it he just kept diving deeper and deeper while panicking. Accidentally filmed his death. And this wasn't even cave diving.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/atlas_ob...ue_hole_of_dahab_on_the_red_sea_in_egypt.html

Lipski is not the only diver to have died at the Blue Hole. On a cliff face on the path leading to the site are 14 memorial plaques dedicated to lost divers. There's Karl Marx, an Austrian who perished in 2008.