Weeb Wars / AnimeGate / #KickVic / #IStandWithVic / #vickicksback - General Discussion Thread

As devil's advocate, she's saying her brother never directly hurt anyone. So while yes, child porn necessarily hurts the kids being abused, I think she's sticking to the used hard drive story. In other words, child porn is harmful, but the brother didn't indulge in it/download it, thus he's not the one who hurt anyone. That begs the question whether the flimsy excuse is real or not.
When discussing Sarah's disgusting brother, I think it may be helpful to emphasize that it doesn't matter how the porn came to be on his laptop. Already there because it bought it used, downloaded from the dark web, planted there by the Pedo Fairy - doesn't matter. He did not come to the attention of law enforcement because he was hapless enough to purchase a used hard drive with kiddie porn. He was arrested because he fucking seeded the child porn onto a file sharing site.

So say he really did just buy a porn infested hard drive by accident. You can believe that to be the truth and he'd still be guilty of distributing child pornography. Even if he never downloaded a single image, when he found the images he promptly uploaded them for others to see because that's evidently what innocent people do when they find unwanted artifacts of child abuse on their computer.

Sarah might also want to look into the Amy, Vicky and Andy Child Pornography Victim Assistance Act of 2018. The federal government definitely does not think that simply viewing or possessing child porn filmed by someone else is a victimless crime. They actually have cleared the way for victims the Feds have identified to be able to sue those who view the criminal record of their rapes and torture. That means that if Sarah's degenerate brother is ever charged by the federal government with possession and distribution of child porn, every known victim in the videos he had on his hard drive can take him to court and sue him for damages.

There are some reasons why this act may actually be harming some victims because they have to be notified every time the Feds find their films or images on someone's computer, ensuring they never get a chance to recover because they are reminded almost weekly that someone else has viewed their images. But for any flaws found in this act, it was created because unequivocally watching the documentation of some adult raping a child has the potential to revictimize the child in the film.

I wish I could not believe anyone would be so driven by identity politics as defined by anime voice actors and Twiter culture that they would actually believe an unwanted hug by a fey Christian dude is sexual assault but possession and distribution of child porn is a victimless crime. This isn't stupidity at work as her peers comfort her. They have made the decision to willfully redefine what it means to be a victim, essentially mocking children who survived the worst that could happen by telling them that the undocumented and unverifiable stories of some dude maybe being overly affectionate to his fans far outweigh the verifiable and continuing harms done to victims of child porn. These people are loathsome degenerates.
 
Good.

I expect the people who didn't abandon G+S are currently main-lining its replacement, Relics and Rarities?
I'll look more into that specific show next month, but the reason it hasn't completely collapsed is that they are still streaming (hosting) CR in its usual timeslot. Many people subbed to G+S for multiple months purely for CR and if they cut that the community would have been an enormous shitshow. To make you happier, after the split from G+S, CR started a animated kickstarter and is at ~9million with trending for ~12m at the end.
Seeing Shane's wife and the age difference kinda makes the story of "Vic preying on underage fans" a bit funny to me. Would be even funnier if he met her at a con he was working at lol
20y age difference and paraphrasing Shane: we did stuff 20y ago that wouldn't be considered kosher today... ?
 
I'll look more into that specific show next month, but the reason it hasn't completely collapsed is that they are still streaming (hosting) CR in its usual timeslot. Many people subbed to G+S for multiple months purely for CR and if they cut that the community would have been an enormous shitshow. To make you happier after the split from G+S, CR started a animated kickstarter and is at ~9million with trending for ~12m at the end.

as much as I hate celebrity game shows, a campaign of D&D no matter the rule set is entertaining to watch as much as it is to play.

Storylines, man, storylines. I don't know a single screenwriter who didn't become a DM just because of how entertaining it is to homebrew a storyline using a module and playing it all the way to The Apocalypse Stone.

Some of the best anime/high fantasy is basically a D&D campaign. I tolerate it for that reason alone.
 
When discussing Sarah's disgusting brother, I think it may be helpful to emphasize that it doesn't matter how the porn came to be on his laptop. Already there because it bought it used, downloaded from the dark web, planted there by the Pedo Fairy - doesn't matter. He did not come to the attention of law enforcement because he was hapless enough to purchase a used hard drive with kiddie porn. He was arrested because he fucking seeded the child porn onto a file sharing site.

So say he really did just buy a porn infested hard drive by accident. You can believe that to be the truth and he'd still be guilty of distributing child pornography. Even if he never downloaded a single image, when he found the images he promptly uploaded them for others to see because that's evidently what innocent people do when they find unwanted artifacts of child abuse on their computer.

Sarah might also want to look into the Amy, Vicky and Andy Child Pornography Victim Assistance Act of 2018. The federal government definitely does not think that simply viewing or possessing child porn filmed by someone else is a victimless crime. They actually have cleared the way for victims the Feds have identified to be able to sue those who view the criminal record of their rapes and torture. That means that if Sarah's degenerate brother is ever charged by the federal government with possession and distribution of child porn, every known victim in the videos he had on his hard drive can take him to court and sue him for damages.

There are some reasons why this act may actually be harming some victims because they have to be notified every time the Feds find their films or images on someone's computer, ensuring they never get a chance to recover because they are reminded almost weekly that someone else has viewed their images. But for any flaws found in this act, it was created because unequivocally watching the documentation of some adult raping a child has the potential to revictimize the child in the film.

I wish I could not believe anyone would be so driven by identity politics as defined by anime voice actors and Twiter culture that they would actually believe an unwanted hug by a fey Christian dude is sexual assault but possession and distribution of child porn is a victimless crime. This isn't stupidity at work as her peers comfort her. They have made the decision to willfully redefine what it means to be a victim, essentially mocking children who survived the worst that could happen by telling them that the undocumented and unverifiable stories of some dude maybe being overly affectionate to his fans far outweigh the verifiable and continuing harms done to victims of child porn. These people are loathsome degenerates.
Preaching to the choir, my dude.

But again, the (devil's advocate) argument I'm making isn't that Sarah is saying CP is a victimless crime. It is. I know it, you know it, I hope (hope hope hope) she knows it. Her argument is that her brother is just some unfortunate dumbass who magically had kiddy vids on his computer, and somehow accidentally shared it, thus making some bystander to this.

I'm personally mashing X to doubt, but it that's the story she wants to stick with I'll assume that's what she honestly believes, and not that she thinks CP isn't abuse because her brother didn't personally do it.

If anything I'm more annoyed by the double standard of guilty until proven innocent for Vic, but once it's a family member it's flipped.
 
"Hurting humans." These people are terminally fragile... or so they would like you to believe. Who's hurting... Monica? Because from where I am sitting, she looks like she's hurting entirely from self-inflicted wounds (which she is continuing to self-inflict even up to this point in time). That applies as well to her boy-toy, who seems to be literally be incapable of logging off twitter and not posting about this situation. I hope his lawyer fires him for being too stupid to live.

What smart lawyer would do that when he can just drag it out, knowing Ron is too dumb to settle, and get maximum pay before crashing and burning?

Is he wrong about MRAs though?

MGTOW are the virgins, nothing's wrong with MRA.

When people pick up those pitchforks, they're going to go after their "brave leaders" like Gaddafi was reportedly killed by his own people for how corrupt he was.

Hoist by their own petards. :story:

Who the heck told you the people hated Gaddafi? Only the """rebels""" hated Gaddafi, who then went on to utterly ruin their country the moment they were handed the reins. He was - and is, in retrospect - beloved by his people. He'd ride down the street in an top-down car because he was in so little threat to his life until a certain someone got a hair up her pantsuit and decided to murder him to make her mark on the world.

Lynzee Loveridge / Lynzee Michelle / Lynzee Lamb / Lynzee Groves / octopodpie / rinjichan / ANN_Lynzee

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Dox:

Full name: Lynzee Michelle Loveridge, née Lamb
DOB: April 1, 1987
10310 NE 43rd Ave
Vancouver, WA 98686
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Emails: lynzee@animenewsnetwork.com, rinjichan@yahoo.com
Skype: lynzee.lamb

Her husband's name is Matthew Brenton Loveridge. Here is his twitter (archive).
What a....lovely couple??
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They have two sons, Erik and Felix, although the older one is from Lynzee's first marriage.
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Back in the day, she was trying really hard to be a model, which is just embarrassing for everyone involved.
Anyway, this goofy bitch has a looooong internet history, I don't have even close to enough time to unpack some of this shit. Especially the old wordpress account when she was going through her divorce and posting lots of really bad poetry. Oh, and in case you couldn't tell from her carefully crafted aesthetic, she's also one of those chicks who likes to call herself a witch and is into tarot cards and crystals and all that dumb shit. Have fun with all this.
https://twitter.com/ANN_Lynzee (archive)
https://www.facebook.com/lynzee.loveridge.9 (archive)
https://www.instagram.com/octopodpie
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/1L5GM6EV0334Z?ref_=wl_share (archive)
https://twitter.com/octopodpie
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvVX_VK3LO4OwUwIZTy-vaQ
http://en.gravatar.com/rinjichan (archive)
https://immodestamerican.wordpress.com/ (archive)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWcWb4yHbt9HF5vzEYH7azg
https://www.twitch.tv/octopodpie
https://www.deviantart.com/octopodpie (archive)
https://www.etsy.com/people/octopodpie (archive)
https://www.pinterest.com/octopodpie/
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/MyAnime/?user=octopodpie (archive)
https://www.dndbeyond.com/members/Octopodpie (archive)
https://myanimelist.net/profile/octopodpie (archive)
https://octopodpie.livejournal.com (archive)
https://myspace.com/rinjichan
https://live.sk-knower.com/octopodpie
https://rinjichan.wordpress.com/ (archive)
https://www.modelmayhem.com/310299 (archive)
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rinjichan/library/ (archive)
http://otakubooty.com/op.asp?i=7728 (archive)
https://rinjichan-anime.livejournal.com/ (archive)
http://fubar.com/rinjichan (archive)
https://www.amazon.com/wishlist/1Y7DTEK1W96HV (archive)
https://www.threadless.com/@rinjichan/activity (archive)
https://www.wowprogress.com/character/us/runetotem/Rinjichan (archive)
https://cosplay.com/member/337954 (archive)
https://www.animefeminist.com/persp...-magic-depression-in-the-ancient-magus-bride/ (archive)
https://www.linkedin.com/in/lynzee-lamb-b8788b66
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Weird. I had a cousin that lived right down the street from her for a while.

Figures she'd be from Vancouver.

Considering some of the insanity we've witnessed the past few weeks, I wouldn't entirely rule this theory out.




I really need to install that app. Watching that put a much needed smile on my face.

The creator of the app is nice to begin with. The idea of holding informal and 'personal' voice acting panels without needing to pay for con attendance and compress it down to 30 min/1hr wait is great. Even more than just giving Vic an outlet to spend time with his fans while cons are stiffing him, it's a great idea for any actor.

Maybe not Monica anymore.

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(This edit didn't take long. Editors, Photoshop is nice, but alot of industry trained people use GIMP2 -- It's free open source and works 10000% better for pro-consumers, once you know how to use it.

How'd I do?)

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GIMP is absolutely better than PS for photoshopping images, despite the name. You can use most Photoshop tutorials with it as well, as long as you understand the different quirks of its tools.

Baseless? Jim Crow? have you seen the crime statistics?

Saying that you should automatically believe any accusation against a black person because they have high crime rates is the same as saying you should automatically believe any rape accusation because they have high conviction rates for sex related crimes. Rates don't matter, everyone gets due process.

Could be contract-related (Nancy Cartwright can't do Bart's voice outside of the studio, for example) for some folks. I know Mike Pollock will not say "SnooPING AS usual, I see" as Eggman because one: he wasn't the one who said it as well as it being the wrong character, and two: he learned of its memetic roots and wasn't thrilled with the idea he was being "tricked" into saying "penis"--probably also got called in about it, I'm trying to remember which event came first.

So I think it depends on the cast (and if their contracts will allow it) and the request. For another example, as far as I know, Chris Sabat has not gotten in trouble for doing TFS quotes in his characters' voices despite him not being the one to originally say the lines, and Toei's hateboner for TFS.

Toei has a raging hateboner for TFS, but Funimation shields them from the brunt of that mostly due to Sabat's influence over it. Thus, it's no surprise Sabat would do it and get away with it. As long as he says it in English there's not much say they get over it.

Secondary trait -- They get into a culture to corrupt and monetize it.

Take Twitch for example. -- It didn't become a explicit Thottery Barn where TwitchThots admit to never being there for gaming and only to thirst-trap gamers until after Twitch Plays Pokemon.

TPP was the cultural event that convinced Bezos to purchase the company and ramp up production -- and because TwitchThots are supplied and sustained by paypigs, they're encouraged to give grants to help female streamers jumpstart a streaming career and keep them unbanned by being lenient.

No, i'm not joking -- They're that sexist to give female streamers and female streamers only a stipend.


Welcome to gaming in 2019 on Twitch -- You can't have a personality unless you're averaging 300+ viewers, 40 subs a stream, and $10K every fiscal quarter.

Man. If it didn't require the streamer to be in high school or college (for some reason...) I'd sign up to start streaming right now. Sexism of low expectations ain't nothing next to some sweet free cash.
 
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New Unlocked stream from Vic.


The genuine excitement he shows to people makes my heart melt. Anyone feel he looked a little gaunt here though?

LMAO she needs "safety" during a panel that people are going to be watching her on? Like Todd is just going to attack her in front of a group of people literally watching them host a panel??
Its really odd how she seems to be so scared of her safety for ridiculous reasons when its convenient in taking out the enemy

Yes, Todd is just going to pin her down and rape her in front of a whole panel room full of guests and the attendees will just clap and holler and cheer him on.

Rial only gets scared of her safety when 1) Awkward questions are going to get asked or 2) She's not the biggest name in the room. (Haberkorn has a much larger official fan club).

Real fucking odd, innit?


Because he is a stupid beaten-down cuckold who has no control over anything and cannot even influence his deranged cunt of a fiancee to act remotely sensible and quit piling on new causes of action to bankrupt her forever.

Or he's using her impending suing into poverty to control her. She's going to be totally bankrupted by this and her stupidity. Meaning she'd have to rely on Ron that whole amount more. He's probably doing quiet cartwheels to that whenever she's out at a con. She'll be a broken ruin but she'll finally be all his.

I mean, these people are clearly psychotic enough that this will be in their playbook somewhere.
 
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Horton is a dumbass. This Vic stuff didn't start happening six months ago.

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Indefensible is thinking you know how the law works despite not being a lawyer.

Indefensible is believing baseless accusations blindly, like in the Jim Crow era.

And, you said yourself you've done stuff that probably isn't acceptable today. Is that indefensible?
Indefensible is how someone has not put a burning stake through his asshole and took it out of his mouth, hanging him like a motherfucking pig he is. The only difference is people would eat that pork meat and pray to Lord for the life of the pig meanwhile this asshole....people won't even piss in his mouth if he asked for water while suffering.

P.S - Was super angry after watching the latest Vic stream and seeing how kind is and how motherfucking assholes these bitches are. Lord Ty i hope you have you have this faggot's name in the lawsuit because this bitch ain't having no money or brain to defend himself.
 
Preaching to the choir, my dude.

But again, the (devil's advocate) argument I'm making isn't that Sarah is saying CP is a victimless crime. It is. I know it, you know it, I hope (hope hope hope) she knows it. Her argument is that her brother is just some unfortunate dumbass who magically had kiddy vids on his computer, and somehow accidentally shared it, thus making some bystander to this.

I'm personally mashing X to doubt, but it that's the story she wants to stick with I'll assume that's what she honestly believes, and not that she thinks CP isn't abuse because her brother didn't personally do it.

If anything I'm more annoyed by the double standard of guilty until proven innocent for Vic, but once it's a family member it's flipped.
Sorry if it looked like I was countering you. Got where you are coming from and where you're going. My two cents was focusing on a way of wresting control of the talking points away from them should they persist with the "bad used hard drive plus he didn't directly harm anyone" narrative. In the Twitter threads, those who sympathize are emphasizing the used hard drive to the point that they can be completely shut down when reminded that the piece of shit uploaded to file sharing sites all those images he totally didn't download in the first place. Their hypocrisy likely won't be able to be countered because they will absolutely continue with the meme of innocent until proven guilty for me but not for thee because woke points are more important to them. But they maybe can be made to shut up and maybe even feel a bit of shame if you ask them why he shared the files after supposedly finding them on his computer.

But even as I type this I realize it is a godless endeavor. Anyone willingness to preserve the presumption of innocence for Sarah's brother while denying it for Vic are not going to be able to engage in anything close to intellectual consistency or moral decision-making.
 
I missed it on first pass, but really I'm amused at that comic that just so greatly summarizes gatekeepers and elitist crybabies. "Boo-hoo-hoo, people are experiencing this hobby in a way I don't like, they're not real fans! Ewwie gross girls and insufficiently nerdy casual guys are here, they must wanna SEX IT and not actually PLAY it! Literally everyone else in the final scene is happy but we're mad and picking up our toys to go home because only we're important! We're literally just hipsters who get mad and hate things when they get too 'mainstream' so we're not special because we play it anymore!"

I can't believe anyone actually buys into that. Just play the game/your hobby the way you want to, the same way you always have, stop being mad because other people aren't playing by the rules you want them too. Sheesh. You'd be far less miserable and not make angry MS paint comics about how the girls and alphas steal all your things. It reminds me of the idiots who ranted angrily about how all these 'new girls' ruined Doctor Who because they liked the young Doctors, and the only REAL fans watched it on PBS, because when it was on PBS and no one saw it, it was 'their' show and 'their' Doctor, and these stupid casuals have RUINED! EVERYTHING!!

Dumb.
 
But even as I type this I realize it is a godless endeavor. Anyone willingness to preserve the presumption of innocence for Sarah's brother while denying it for Vic are not going to be able to engage in anything close to intellectual consistency or moral decision-making.

I'm not saying they should just throw him in prison without a trial, just that the number of people caught with CP and their only excuse is that lame-ass bullshit, and who weren't guilty, is about zero.
 
So how often do guests drop out of Cons? Reason I am asking is the way Shannon McCordick was chimping out about ethics just because Nick got his hands on a blank con contract. Like I am wondering if he was afraid Nicks stream would empower Con Owners with the knowledge of being able to enforce their contracts while at the same time the guest lose power because they can't cancel on a whim now. I just found it odd that he was just going nuts and was curious if it was common and Mcordick was afraid of the knowledge Nick was dropping.
 
I missed it on first pass, but really I'm amused at that comic that just so greatly summarizes gatekeepers and elitist crybabies. "Boo-hoo-hoo, people are experiencing this hobby in a way I don't like, they're not real fans! Ewwie gross girls and insufficiently nerdy casual guys are here, they must wanna SEX IT and not actually PLAY it! Literally everyone else in the final scene is happy but we're mad and picking up our toys to go home because only we're important! We're literally just hipsters who get mad and hate things when they get too 'mainstream' so we're not special because we play it anymore!"

I can't believe anyone actually buys into that. Just play the game/your hobby the way you want to, the same way you always have, stop being mad because other people aren't playing by the rules you want them too. Sheesh. You'd be far less miserable and not make angry MS paint comics about how the girls and alphas steal all your things. It reminds me of the idiots who ranted angrily about how all these 'new girls' ruined Doctor Who because they liked the young Doctors, and the only REAL fans watched it on PBS, because when it was on PBS and no one saw it, it was 'their' show and 'their' Doctor, and these stupid casuals have RUINED! EVERYTHING!!

Dumb.
I take it you've never joined a community inevitably ruined by attention seekers?
I don't think it's an issue of "play the way you want". There are rules in most games. In my experience, the issue is that people like this don't actually care about the hobby itself, and they tend to ruin it for the people who do, because they cause issues and discourage people who are actually invested from participating. Though the comic portrays it that way (4chan of course), it's not just a gender thing either... I've met a lot of serious female players in my hobbies, and a lot of male attention seekers, and vice versa.
 
I take it you've never joined a community inevitably ruined by attention seekers?
I don't think it's an issue of "play the way you want". There are rules in most games. In my experience, the issue is that people like this don't actually care about the hobby itself, and they tend to ruin it for the people who do, because they cause issues and discourage people who are actually invested from participating. Though the comic portrays it that way (4chan of course), it's not just a gender thing either... I've met a lot of serious female players in my hobbies, and a lot of male attention seekers, and vice versa.


It can't be ruined if you just enjoy the thing the way you want to and associate with people in it who think like you do. It's the rule of thumb that there is no fandom without toxicity in it, and if you like something you should probably avoid the fandom unless you know someone who can point you to parts of the fandom you'll actually enjoy. I'm not saying there aren't toxic elements in a given hobby and that they might not be something like 'I'm not involved in this because I like it, I'm involved because I want the poon.' I'm saying that I've never seen something actually ruined by those people existing in that hobby. Just people saying it's been ruined by them. I'd say the SJW-esque types are far more damaging, because not only will they go out of their way to make sure No One Gets To Have Fun, but if they're allowed to fester, they'll strike at the core material and try to rewrite it into their tumblr awful ways. Casuals and thots don't actually do anything inherently, They're just around enjoying the thing in their own weird little way, not hunting down people who do it differently or trying to wrest control of it from the makers so that they might destroy it.
 
there's a small, tiny part of me hoping this burns the american anime industry simply because japan refuses to play ball, then to spite it begins selling retail subbed anime in stores. it'd just be the best fuck you to the likes of funimation and crunchyroll and it'd spawn so, so much salt.
 
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It can't be ruined if you just enjoy the thing the way you want to and associate with people in it who think like you do. It's the rule of thumb that there is no fandom without toxicity in it, and if you like something you should probably avoid the fandom unless you know someone who can point you to parts of the fandom you'll actually enjoy. I'm not saying there aren't toxic elements in a given hobby and that they might not be something like 'I'm not involved in this because I like it, I'm involved because I want the poon.' I'm saying that I've never seen something actually ruined by those people existing in that hobby. Just people saying it's been ruined by them. I'd say the SJW-esque types are far more damaging, because not only will they go out of their way to make sure No One Gets To Have Fun, but if they're allowed to fester, they'll strike at the core material and try to rewrite it into their tumblr awful ways. Casuals and thots don't actually do anything inherently, They're just around enjoying the thing in their own weird little way, not hunting down people who do it differently or trying to wrest control of it from the makers so that they might destroy it.

Anime in 1995: Groups of fans sitting in darkened college Otaku Clubrooms watching animation that does things that no other form of animation has done before. Long, serialized stories; sex, extreme violence, bad language, stories centered around Japanese culture and history. Waiting on bated breath for months for that one series you're into to come out on fansub. Buying two official subbed episodes on a single VHS for 50.00 apiece. Realizing that animation can tell complex stories and isn't necessarily a medium for immature people.

Anime, 20 years later:


Still think Casuals and Thots don't ruin anything?
 
Anime in 1995: Groups of fans sitting in darkened college Otaku Clubrooms watching animation that does things that no other form of animation has done before. Long, serialized stories; sex, extreme violence, bad language, stories centered around Japanese culture and history. Waiting on bated breath for months for that one series you're into to come out on fansub. Buying two official subbed episodes on a single VHS for 50.00 apiece. Realizing that animation can tell complex stories and isn't necessarily a medium for immature people.

Anime, 20 years later:


Still think Casuals and Thots don't ruin anything?
Papa toei, please, i'm sorry, come fix this, please papa toei
 
So how often do guests drop out of Cons? Reason I am asking is the way Shannon McCordick was chimping out about ethics just because Nick got his hands on a blank con contract. Like I am wondering if he was afraid Nicks stream would empower Con Owners with the knowledge of being able to enforce their contracts while at the same time the guest lose power because they can't cancel on a whim now. I just found it odd that he was just going nuts and was curious if it was common and Mcordick was afraid of the knowledge Nick was dropping.
As Ty mentioned the anime community hasn't had much contact with lawyers before. Contracts have probably been breached before, but because people didn't trust lawyers or wanted to stay friendly with the breacher, they never enforced it.

And now we're here with a lawyer who is going over everything with a magnifying glass, and by all appearances is going to be holding these people into honoring these contracts.

If Shannon is wigging out, he ironically only has himself and the rest of kickvic to blame. They booted a man out of the community and left legal action as his only recourse, and that recourse is going to burn them. The genie's out of the bottle and it's not going back.
 
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As Ty mentioned the anime community hasn't had much contact with lawyers before. Contracts have probably been breached before, but because people didn't trust lawyers or wanted to stay friendly with the breacher, they never enforced it.

And now we're here with a lawyer who is going over everything with a magnifying glass, and by all appearances is going to be holding these people into honoring these contracts.

If Shannon is wigging out, he ironically only has himself and the rest of kickvic to blame. They booted a man out of the community and left legal action as his only recourse, and that recourse is going to burn them. The genie's out of the bottle and it's not going back.
It’s almost like drawing attention to yourself exposes who you really are? What mega brained fuck ups these people have shown themselves to be
 
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