Is anyone really free?

[Hikikomori-Yume]

This isn't /pol/, lad, you don't get to just play the "YOU A JEW" card and win the argument.

Stop infiltrating countries and trying to enslave/genocide everyone and then I might stop calling out the kikes

 

[KimCoppolaAficionado]

Stop infiltrating countries and trying to enslave/genocide everyone and then I might stop calling out the kikes

I'm American, of solid Germanic stock, you nitwit.

 

[1864897514651]

[redacted]

"Nigger" does not refer to black people. If it did, then other races of people should not be offended if it is used against them. This is obviously not the case. I have an essay already on what this word means, so I am not going to waste my time explaining to you that I obviously do not hate black people. What a ridiculous, libelous statement. If you are assuming I somehow hate black people because of my post here, then you are mentally retаrded.

You need to seriously develop reading comprehension. You are engaging in a ridiculous level of libel against me because you cannot comprehend what you read. At the very least, you need to block me and stop reading the things I post.

EDIT: Changed "slander" to "libel" at recommendation of @ProgKing of the North

 

[ProgKing of the North]

You need to seriously develop reading comprehension. You are engaging in a ridiculous level of slander against me because you cannot comprehend what you read. At the very least, you need to block me and stop reading the things I post.

I'm not slandering you, I'm libeling you. Learn the difference before you try to sue me, please and thank you.

Why would I stop reading your posts? They're hilarious

 

[quatchi55]

What with the name calling have to do if your free or in what ever freedom you feel in whatever mind state you have about others ??????

 

[Clop]

Of course I'm free. I'm white.

 

[Hikikomori-Yume]

I'm American, of solid Germanic stock, you nitwit.

even worse than a jew

 

[Unog]

Depends on what you consider freedom to be.

Also whether or not you're in international waters.

 

[JosephStalin]

No. We are under the constraint of our biological bodies, our histories, and our social standings.

Sartre avers that every person is radically free; even a man behind bars is radically free because he can picture himself not to be in jail. But even Sartre's notion of radical freedom is far from absolute; a person's "radical freedom" is limited by other people's equally "radical" freedom. Hence his notorious adage: Hell is other people.


I think the more pertinent questions are: do we need absolute freedom? What good is absolute freedom? If we don't need absolute freedom, then how much freedom is good enough?

And those constraints can comprise part of a person's cage.

Agree with Sartre's "Hell is other people". Looks like we are on the same track. Radical freedom can only come about through the mind.

I would ask the question, "What is absolute freedom?" Is it freedom to do all things? To think all things? To do as one pleases without constraint or consequences? If we can define absolute freedom, then we can look at what good absolute freedom does us, and if it is needed.

 

[Lemmingwise]

I believe every one of us exists in a cage, literal, figurative, or both. The cage can be of one's own making, or imposed due to circumstances beyond one's control, or both. Cages are of different sizes. Sometimes we never notice the presence of that cage until it makes itself known. Cages are anything from decrepit to luxurious.

In my opinion, the only place a person can be truly free is in their own minds. Cages confine the body, but not the mind. One is free to think as they please. One is not free to do as they please. One way or another, there are constraints limiting actions and/or there are consequences of actions. But there are no constraints hampering thoughts, and no consequences of merely thinking any particular thought. So think, and be free.

Thread theme:

Peter Gabriel - My Body is a cage

My Body is a cage by Peter Gabriel, available in 1080p HD Audio. Simply hauntingly beautiful. Disclaimer: I do not own any material in the making of either t...

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I find that the mind can be its own cage. I enjoy doing physical things where my mind is quiet, whether it's garden work or martial arts is the moment where I feel free from my mind; whereas the typical experience discussing ideas on this deep thought forum makes my mind feel free while actively using it.

One is actually free to do as they please; though you might be aware of expected consequences. But often these are not at all as you expect them. It's like the elephant that has been chained to a tree when he was small and has learned to stop testing his strength against it, even now that he is huge and could easily pull out the sapling.

Most often people remain in their cages out of fear, fear of discomfort, or lack of imaginatio n to even consider it.

In regards to thoughts about being free, I've been thinking about sexual liberation. Supposedly before people were stuck in a cage (marriage) and now people are free to their fuckfest. But looking at the people that go to orgies and such, they do not seem free people at all, and the same for example furries. Their choices in fact limit themselves as many people are socially repelled by what they do and how openly they talk about sex lives that disgust more than a fair share of people. Like a drug liberation is perhaps having open access to all drugs, but a heroine addict might live in some sense a free-er life if there is no access to heroine than the reverse.

Because if you were to value and persue freedom, you would probably also in some sense resist being a slave to whims and addictions.

------

As for being free only inside your own mind, it sounds both lonely and solipsistic. I don't generally consider other people barriers to my freedom and in fact can not fathom freedom without relationships with other people. What value do thoughts have, unless they translate into real world changes?

Like if you figure out a better map of how people interact or you learn how to make a fire, or perhaps improve on it by thinking about the details; sure then you have something practically improved.

But what value do those ideas have that never intersect into the real world? Is that freedom or just brain candy?

 

[Positron]

As for being free only inside your own mind, it sounds both lonely and solipsistic. I don't generally consider other people barriers to my freedom and in fact can not fathom freedom without relationships with other people. What value do thoughts have, unless they translate into real world changes?

That's why Heaven is also other people. To put it in a slightly mercenary way, they are part of your project in this world.

 

[mr.moon1488]

The question is unanswerable, because the definition of freedom is entirely dependent on the opinions of the person evaluating it. I could be the only man alive, but not consider myself free. Aren't there always consequences for certain actions? Should I chose not to eat, will I not be punished with death? In my opinion, all men are their own oppressors to at least some extent. If you do not fear the consequences of your own actions, then you can do almost anything.

 

[Lemmingwise]

The question is unanswerable, because the definition of freedom is entirely dependent on the opinions of the person evaluating it. I could be the only man alive, but not consider myself free. Aren't there always consequences for certain actions? Should I chose not to eat, will I not be punished with death? In my opinion, all men are their own oppressors to at least some extent. If you do not fear the consequences of your own actions, then you can do almost anything.

We are all free to face the consequences.

 

[The Crow]

Stop infiltrating countries and trying to enslave/genocide everyone and then I might stop calling out the kikes

jewish people are superior to whites bc they're more intelligent, cunning, and better businessmen

 

[Red Hood]

Your mother gives it away for free, does that count?

 

[Lemmingwise]

isn't /pol/, lad, you don't get to just play the "YOU A JEW" card and win the argument

You can't win them by saying "da jooos" either, so you guys are still tied.

Not that anyone is keeping score.

 

[JosephStalin]

The question is unanswerable, because the definition of freedom is entirely dependent on the opinions of the person evaluating it. I could be the only man alive, but not consider myself free. Aren't there always consequences for certain actions? Should I chose not to eat, will I not be punished with death? In my opinion, all men are their own oppressors to at least some extent.

I hear you. Some real food for thought there.

Re "If you do not fear the consequences of your own actions, then you can do almost anything.", you are absolutely right - at least you can attempt almost anything.

 

[SugarSnot]

Not even your own mind is truly free. Human interaction is literally built around being able to control each others thoughts and has been so specialized that this can be done long distance. Every word you read or hear is literally a thought someone other than you has implanted in your brain and you can neither unthink it or unread it consciously.

You can not decide what you believe in either. You are either in a state of being convinced or you are not. Sure, you can make a conscious effort to hold onto your beliefs or make an attempt to be open minded; hell you may even live your life according to a belief you wish was true, but true belief comes from a state of being convinced one way or the other.

 

[Mewtwo_Rain]

I don't even think our own minds are truly free. Even in thought process you probably consider actions or plans you'd like to carry out but you are constrained either by lack of will, or realizing the consequences of those actions you consider doing or carrying out or even the limitations of your mind. Some of us are also burdened by our past, trauma, or you may purposely block your mind for many reasons.

You can create a fortitude of your will, that you try to impose or build up or contain, but I don't think that can ever be a "freedom" of itself. Even when we make "free" choices our mind still balances the risk vs. reward of those actions and then either denies us those choices depending on the consequences or limits them.

Honestly, not the same exact thing but I used to debate a psychologist who believed the most natural people or in a sense "free people" were those who were insane. Although it sounds like a joke because many of them are out of control, but he used to argue because they had no restraint and often wouldn't' gauge the risk vs. reward maybe they were indeed the most free people (or as far as one can be within certain limitations) on Earth. They often do what they want without consideration of the consequences, no care for learning from repeat behavior in many cases.

In a sense I wonder if that is the true form of absolute freedom: Chaos? (Or maybe just insanity itself.)

 

[LinuxVoid]

1. Being made of flesh and bone does not negate free will.
2. Show me where my instincts tell me to enjoy television.

Being made of flesh and bone completely negates free will as those are physical objects set on a evolutionary path which we have no control over. There is nothing about you that has even a semblance of independence from flesh and blood, unless you commit suicide that is.
Your instincts tell you to gather information, the easiest way to do so is to watch tv, as you do not have to concentrate and the info is being fed to you in the easiest way possible. Basically television is a great way to waste time, the biggest enemy of human beings.