The Writing Thread

That is a very common struggle. Personally what I do, and I've heard other writers say this as well, is I skip the opening paragraph altogether and save it for last. It's actually a lot easier for me to write from the middle or the conclusion and work from there. This, of course, is only if you're writing a story or essay with a definitive ending or final destination. If I wanted my character or characters to evolve organically, I may not want to focus on the ending so early on.

In my case, I'm writing something where it's important that I start with the opening since I'll be posting it on a historical site. Although I have a month before I plan on actually getting deep into it. So I do have time to start off with my next scene and then go back to the opening. I'm trying to get in the mind of my main character and imagine what he's doing. My problem is I know what this character is supposed to do- he's going to work as a bank clerk (in 1909) but I'm having trouble writing what he's doing and how his day is going. I have an idea. I'm struggling to write it out. I'll probably just skip straight to the family dinner if I keep having issues with this. I envy people who can easily write out their first chapter.
It's definitely easier to write the middle scenes and so on. I don't know why.
 
Does anyone else have problems starting off their stories? I'm writing a historical character's backstory and that's what I always get stuck on. The opening. Is there a way to fix that problem? It's always a frustrating thing for me when it comes to writing.
(That and having to write divorce in 1911, that's tedious and complicated.)
The best way to feed backstory to the audience is to feed it to them the most organic way you can- I find that dialogue is the best way to do this. (With the divorce part- maybe have him confide in a trusted coworker about it over lunch break? That’d be one way to establish he’s getting divorced without info dumping the reader. You could also show it in the dynamic between him and his wife when he comes home- does he resent her? Does she resent him? Are they both simply young people who got married too early and regret it?)

Maybe you can start the story with the character leaving work to go have dinner with the family. That way, you can establish his occupation to the audience.

Or you can also establish their occupation by having another character ask them about how their day at work went.

Or maybe it starts with them being late for work?

Possibilities are endless, just go with whichever feels right.

Remember that your readers won’t care to read too much about the job description, they’ll be able to figure out they’re a bank clerk if you can sum it up in a sentence or less.
 
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The best way to feed backstory to the audience is to feed it to them the most organic way you can- I find that dialogue is the best way to do this. (With the divorce part- maybe have him confide in a trusted coworker about it over lunch break? That’d be one way to establish he’s getting divorced without info dumping the reader. You could also show it in the dynamic between him and his wife when he comes home- does he resent her? Does she resent him? Are they both simply young people who got married too early and regret it?)

Maybe you can start the story with the character leaving work to go have dinner with the family. That way, you can establish his occupation to the audience.

Or you can also establish their occupation by having another character ask them about how their day at work went.

Or maybe it starts with them being late for work?

Possibilities are endless, just go with whichever feels right.

Remember that your readers won’t care to read too much about the job description, they’ll be able to figure out they’re a bank clerk if you can sum it up in a sentence or less.

That's a brilliant way to handle the divorce thing. The problem is that Edwardian divorce took ages to do and was harder than getting divorced these days so I'm probably better off having it mentioned in conversation after all that time has passed by. In this case, I can see my character mentioning it to an estranged brother in a bitter way after running into him. Something like "You don't have to worry about me being with so and so. She's left/divorced me, just like you all wanted."
'Thanks for the tips. I think I will have him leave for work to have dinner with the family.
 
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So question, two actually I guess. I've always been into writing, but recently I've gotten real serious about it after reading some of Murakamis work. So I want to get my writing up a notch, as I'm planning on posting my work online.

One: What is the deal with dialogue formatting? I sometimes see dialogue inside of a paragraph, and sometimes on a separate line. Is there a rule to follow here or what? I tried finding a pattern to it in some short stories I've read but they seem to just do whatever they feel like. I have books on the subject but they always focus on how to write dialogue creatively, never technically.

Two: I get that this is a real stupid question but what's your take on details? For example in my current piece, a short story, two characters are walking home together. How much details are too much on their surroundings and they themselves. I've read some expert advice on this, such as leaving the MC kind of open to make it easier for the reader to self-insert, but I never seem to find any decent advice on when I'm getting too much into detail. I get that this is largely a personal matter and the important aspect is for the text to flow, but I assume there has to be some pointers?
 
I have never written before and just decided for the purposes of this thread to write the first couple paragraphs of what I thought would be a space opera type short story. I emphasise that I have never done anything like this before, did not plan the following, and have no idea what I am doing, where the story is going, or what I should do next. So any advice would be appreciated.

I was dancing the death dance when I found myself face to face with the ship master, Cmdr. James.

"My lord," he said, throwing himself to the ground and grinding his face into the sleek metal floor. "I beg your forgiveness for this cruel interruption. But it is an emergency -- we have detected a shipping convoy not ten hours flight away."

"A trap?" I asked.

"I cannot say, my lord."

I hastily washed my face of the ritual blood and pigments, quit my private quarters and made my way down the corridor toward the command centre. Along the way I encountered three crewmen who I had sentenced the earlier day for disciplinary infractinos. Their crimes being minor, it sufficed to suspend the three by ropes at various points along the main ship corridor. It was already apparent from the demeanor of pasing crewmembers that this punishment was instructive. Nonetheless, I ordered the first prisoner to be discharged back to her duties. She had been found guilty of insubordination, but the evidence against her amounted to little more than a rude stare and a cold mien, and so was sufficiently questionable that I implemented punishment merely to a avoid having her commander suffer a loss of authority.

The third prisoner met my eyes with an absent gaze. I was not offended and did not feel that his intention was to offend me. But it was not the face of a prisoner undergoing punishment, and I ordered that the skin around his wrists and waist, from which he was suspended, be flayed before he was returned to the ropes.

It occurred to me then that our encounter with the convoy might mean that I might leave the ship and not return for days or weeks. If that were to happen, who would order the prisoners to be taken down? I chuckled with bad humor. Keeping power as an admiral meant promoting - or grinding people into - subordinates who were craven, weak, suspicious, bitterly divided among themselves and terrified to exercise power. I had no illusions whatsoever about that. But if it were otherwise, I would not have survived a week in my position, let alone the thirty years that I have been charged with the command of the Empire's navy.
 
Usually I write shitty Sonic fanfiction in the survival horror genre, I'm considering sharing one of the chapters I'm working on with a friend. Hopefully it won't become the next Fallout: Equestria.
 
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One: What is the deal with dialogue formatting? I sometimes see dialogue inside of a paragraph, and sometimes on a separate line. Is there a rule to follow here or what? I tried finding a pattern to it in some short stories I've read but they seem to just do whatever they feel like. I have books on the subject but they always focus on how to write dialogue creatively, never technically.

You should always take a new sentence every time someone new speaks but there's no exact place within the sentence that it needs to be (say the start or end), so,

"This is speech," he said.

is equally as valid as

He said, "This is speech."

Or you can do both.

"This is speech," he said. "As is this".

But when you add a second character, it should always be,

"This is speech," he said.
She said, "And this is dialogue."

Note that commas should precede or follow dialogue tags (said, replied, shouted). However, if an action follows the speech, it should be accompanied by a period.

"This is speech," he said as he sat in the chair.
"And this..." She took the seat beside him before continuing. "...is dialogue."

If the speech is particularly long, like something you'd hear from John Galt, the speech should be separated into paragraphs based on subject and topic as you normally would.

The book I found best for a lot of this kind of stuff was 'Self-Editing for Fiction Writers' by Renni Browne and Dave King.

Two: I get that this is a real stupid question but what's your take on details? For example in my current piece, a short story, two characters are walking home together. How much details are too much on their surroundings and they themselves. I've read some expert advice on this, such as leaving the MC kind of open to make it easier for the reader to self-insert, but I never seem to find any decent advice on when I'm getting too much into detail. I get that this is largely a personal matter and the important aspect is for the text to flow, but I assume there has to be some pointers?

Enough to give context, but nothing irrelevant. So, if it's a winter's day you can mention the cold, or details about how they can see their breath when they talk, if it's still early maybe there's still some frost in the grass, you can mention whether they're wearing heavy clothing or shivering, because it builds the immediate world in which they're walking home. Diverging into a tangent about how this winter is colder than the last three winters and how climate change is ruining the world would be too much.

But it's not a hard and fast rule, because, as you say, it's largely personal preference, and there are a lot of authors who have had tremendous success despite their tendencies to over indulge in the details. Some readers love it, some readers will be put off, at the end of the day it's largely about how much you think is enough depending on what you're trying to convey with the story. Short stories do tend to need to be more concise that novels though, when you need to be a lot stricter about word count.
 
You should always take a new sentence every time someone new speaks but there's no exact place within the sentence that it needs to be (say the start or end), so,

"This is speech," he said.

is equally as valid as

He said, "This is speech."

Or you can do both.

"This is speech," he said. "As is this".

But when you add a second character, it should always be,

"This is speech," he said.
She said, "And this is dialogue."

Note that commas should precede or follow dialogue tags (said, replied, shouted). However, if an action follows the speech, it should be accompanied by a period.

"This is speech," he said as he sat in the chair.
"And this..." She took the seat beside him before continuing. "...is dialogue."

If the speech is particularly long, like something you'd hear from John Galt, the speech should be separated into paragraphs based on subject and topic as you normally would.

The book I found best for a lot of this kind of stuff was 'Self-Editing for Fiction Writers' by Renni Browne and Dave King.



Enough to give context, but nothing irrelevant. So, if it's a winter's day you can mention the cold, or details about how they can see their breath when they talk, if it's still early maybe there's still some frost in the grass, you can mention whether they're wearing heavy clothing or shivering, because it builds the immediate world in which they're walking home. Diverging into a tangent about how this winter is colder than the last three winters and how climate change is ruining the world would be too much.

But it's not a hard and fast rule, because, as you say, it's largely personal preference, and there are a lot of authors who have had tremendous success despite their tendencies to over indulge in the details. Some readers love it, some readers will be put off, at the end of the day it's largely about how much you think is enough depending on what you're trying to convey with the story. Short stories do tend to need to be more concise that novels though, when you need to be a lot stricter about word count.
Holy crap, thanks a lot. This was a lot easier to get than my current books on the subject made it out to be.

I'll keep the book you recommended in mind, I've heard tons of of authors quote it as one of their main sources for guidance/advice so it seems really good.
 
I'll keep the book you recommended in mind, I've heard tons of of authors quote it as one of their main sources for guidance/advice so it seems really good.

It is, and the authors have quite a light-hearted, jokey approach to the subject, so it's an easy read as well.
 
What's a good thing to do if you get stuck on a scene? I'm writing a chapter where my main character (in 1909) is being set to marry a well off young woman and they're meeting and talking for the first time. I was doing alright until they were introduced and I got stuck on the conversation. It's quite frustrating.

If I can't come up with anything right now I'll probably just skip to the next scene and then go backward.
 
as far as actual prose is concerned, i write fairly rarely. when i do it's always just a one-off thing based on spur-of-the-moment inspiration.

Everything burns. White hot pain darkens the edges of his vision and makes his mind go blank. Flames sear his skin, smoke singes his throat and lungs. Yet still he runs, undeterred by the flames, driven by fear into the cool evening air. It does nothing to ease the pain, the sudden change in temperature giving him a bit of a shock that almost causes him to fall to his knees.

Despite still burning, he looks back, taking in the sight of the building that's been set ablaze. Fire dances out the windows, black smoke curls lazily into the sky. The sight makes his heart drum loud in his ears, terror trapping him in place, pain blocking rational thought--before he can react, a rush of air from an explosion within the building slams into him like a battering ram and knocks him off his feet into the river behind him.

He's not burning anymore but the pain doesn't subside. Everything is dark, cold... the river water stings his eyes, holding his breath makes his chest ache. Further and further down he sinks, into a black void; it's almost peaceful, and for a moment he's calmer than he should be. Death can have him if it's going to take him now. Then something comes into view at the corner of his vision, floating towards him agonizingly slow, looming in the dark barely illuminated by the inferno above.

A corpse, half-decayed, pale and rotting, skin sloughing off in ragged chunks. He knows who it is without seeing its face; there's a familiarity to it that shatters the calm from a moment ago. Panic grips him, makes him kick his legs, try to swim. The movement sends a shock of agony through him. He can't move. He can't get away. The corpse is reaching for him, a hand that's almost bone grips his ankle and he tries to gasp, to scream--

His eyes snap open, the room spins but his gaze is fixed on the ceiling till the dizziness and nausea pass. Deep breaths, it was just a dream. The same dream, not every night but often enough. His heart continues to race for minutes afterwards like a thunderous drum in his chest. He can't stop his hands shaking, so he grips his arms tightly enough to leave bruises.

He can still feel uncomfortable warmth all down his left side, a pain where his leg was that refuses to fade. Like the memories, like the dream, it haunts him. Hours before dawn, he’s left awake with nothing but silence and darkness, and the churning of his mind.

All thoughts of sleep abandon him. He'd rather be awake, anyway, in a place where the flames are just a memory.

not sure i still love this one but it's... good enough to show i guess. i'm not super confident in my writing.

i am doing things that could lead to more actual writing, though. namely: world building. currently i'm in the (very slow) process of developing a sci-fi setting. the most recent progress i've made is starting to figure out the world's main/largest religions. i do have a good amount of things written in a google doc at the moment but nothing really has names and it's all outlines based on certain story beats i want to hit. i might write things for this setting some day, though, when it's more properly fleshed out.
 
Sorry for necroing the thread, but I've got a few questions and this seems like the most appropriate place to post it.

Some backstory for context: So about 6-7 years ago I had begun writing a dark fantasy story and was really happy with where it was going and I managed to get what was at the time a good irl friend of mine to beta read it. Unfortunately for me - this person then proceeded to take what I'd written, reworded it slightly and claimed it completely as her own, which affected me very deeply considering she was someone I thought I could trust. She did receive comeuppance from doing it, but the incident left me completely unwilling to consider using beta readers again until now. I was wondering if anybody here has found themselves in this scenario and I was hoping to ask: how did you overcome the fear of it happening again? Or is it even worth investing in beta readers at all nowadays? Any answers will be greatly appreciated!
 
Sorry for necroing the thread, but I've got a few questions and this seems like the most appropriate place to post it.

Some backstory for context: So about 6-7 years ago I had begun writing a dark fantasy story and was really happy with where it was going and I managed to get what was at the time a good irl friend of mine to beta read it. Unfortunately for me - this person then proceeded to take what I'd written, reworded it slightly and claimed it completely as her own, which affected me very deeply considering she was someone I thought I could trust. She did receive comeuppance from doing it, but the incident left me completely unwilling to consider using beta readers again until now. I was wondering if anybody here has found themselves in this scenario and I was hoping to ask: how did you overcome the fear of it happening again? Or is it even worth investing in beta readers at all nowadays? Any answers will be greatly appreciated!
Make sure to keep all receipts of emails and messages you send out to Betas, and have at least five- so that if one decides to try to plagiarize you, the other four can at least verify that you were the original writer.
 
completely unwilling to consider using beta readers again until now
🤔
I volunteer to read your shit. I have a positive reference as a script editor / playtester from an Overwhelmingly Positive's sole writer.
(I volunteer to read any kiwi's shit, as long as it isn't SEO spam.)
 
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Nobody answered my question, smh.
LOL, kidding. I already got through my problem. Putting the notebook down and writing later helped.
 
🤔
I volunteer to read your shit. I have a positive reference as a script editor / playtester from an Overwhelmingly Positive's sole writer.
(I volunteer to read any kiwi's shit, as long as it isn't SEO spam.)

Thank you for your offer! I haven't actually written anything that would be ready for a beta reader's eyes (I have a first draft of a chapter right now but it's a mangled mess that would most likely give anybody's retinas third degree burns). I mostly asked the questions about beta readers because it's been something that's kinda held me back from writing properly for a few years now and I want to move past that as best I can.

I will, however, most definitely keep you in mind if I need peeps to look over something and tell me if it's trash or not!
 
Just going to post a short story I made in my spare time just for the sake of entertainment.

SOME SENTIMENTAL BLOKE BLUBBERS OVER AN ANT’S DEATH

One fine summer morning, an old man, dressed in nowt except a vest and shorts, went out to tend his nettle crops. “In just a month’s time, these’ll be ready to use for all kinds of mischief! Ah can put these in mi wife’s socks, shove a couple of leaves in mi daughter’s shampoo bottle, and feed t’stalks to t’ducks at Thrybergh Country Park!”, he rejoiced aloud to himself.

The long-in-the-tooth bloke’s wife called out to him from the lounge. “AH LOVE THEE SO BLOODY MUCH!”, she yelled to him enthusiastically. Confused, the old man replied back: “Ah’ve never ‘eard thee say that in years!”. “Tha’re deaf as a doorknob, that’s why!”, his wife complained, before going silent. The geriatric geezer muttered angrily to himself about his wife daring to criticise him before going forth to reap the fruits of his labour from the back garden.

He hovered over his small patch of stinging plants, then leapt back in shock! Every single one of them had either been uprooted, eaten by pests or poisoned! The withered elder had never felt worse in his life, not even when 7 of all his other daughters had gone through divorces simultaneously as he was good mates with their (former) other halves. “Ah ‘aven’t got much luck today, ‘ave ah?”, he moaned to himself. To make matters worse, the crops had also been graffitied in rainbow spraypaint with the words: CODGER, FOGEY, and WRINKLY. The fact that he was attacked with discriminatory, ageist language made him even more furious - it confirmed his belief that there was no respect for the elderly these days.

But the worst thing of all was yet to be noticed by the green-fingered gardener of grim greenery. As he was anxiously thinking about the damage he had seen so far and how much of a pain in the bum it would be to fix it, he had no idea at all how upset he would be by what he would see next. Immediately after he finished worrying and consoled himself, he looked closer at one of the nettles and wailed with grief!

Among the half-eaten, half-rotted leaf’s spines, an ant laid there stiff and still! It had obviously tried to feed on the nettle for its morning meal and accidentally killed itself with the plant’s poison! That was the straw that broke the camel’s back! The not-very-sagacious senior dropped down onto his knees, and bawled his eyes out. Everyone within a ½ mile radius could hear him!

After almost an hour of the weeping wretch making a spectacle of himself in public, his wife went out to call him in for dinner. “Ah’ve got thy favourite food ready-‘ANG ON, WHAT’RE THA DOING KNELT ON T’LAWN?!”, she yelled.

He slowly lifted his head up, visibly shaking. He looked his wife in the eyes, tears streaming down his red face. “An ant ‘ere just bloody died, and it’s all mi fault… If ah ‘adn’t planted these nettles, this wouldn’t ‘ave ‘appened!”, he whined. His wife shook her head at him, and stretched her hand out. “Get back up on thy feet, tha silly great goose, we can watch them Only Fools and Horses DVDs together. That’ll cheer thi up!”, she offered.

His face immediately lit up, and with great enthusiasm he leapt onto his feet and went back inside with his wife, his hand in her hand, his feet walking alongside her feet in perfect alignment and rhythm, his head laid beside her head and hers beside his, to spend quality time together and let each other’s mundane worries melt away in their mutual presence and the hilarity of a classic comedy made a few decades ago.
 
Sorry for necroing the thread, but I've got a few questions and this seems like the most appropriate place to post it.

Some backstory for context: So about 6-7 years ago I had begun writing a dark fantasy story and was really happy with where it was going and I managed to get what was at the time a good irl friend of mine to beta read it. Unfortunately for me - this person then proceeded to take what I'd written, reworded it slightly and claimed it completely as her own, which affected me very deeply considering she was someone I thought I could trust. She did receive comeuppance from doing it, but the incident left me completely unwilling to consider using beta readers again until now. I was wondering if anybody here has found themselves in this scenario and I was hoping to ask: how did you overcome the fear of it happening again? Or is it even worth investing in beta readers at all nowadays? Any answers will be greatly appreciated!

I feel safe enough admiting to you that I overcame the fear of my content getting stolen only because I deliberately designed it in a way that will hopefully make it go viral and just started collecting emails of old versions, art instructions, prior copies of concept art I had a buddy do and I began using Skype to discuss the story with someone as it has an option to export a very large amount of the chat history into a file. Take screenshots. Catalogue everything. Save emails to files, especially emails containing prior versions of your work. That shit is virtually impossible to fake, and if the person who steals it is somehow capable of faking that info then, at that point, they're probably a better writer than you are and its time to cut your losses.

Its worth noting that I plan to self-publish though. I'm certain a publisher would hatchet-job my work in ways I am really not willing to put up with.
 
I'm having a major fucking issue with writing block. I have characters set, places, story, personalities, etc. But every time I try to type I just stare at the fucking screen.
Anyone have any advice?
 
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