Trolling Ethics Debate Thread

[theshak]

A few years ago when Chris first came to my attention I found all his antics hysterical and the trolling he received even more so. It was hard not to laugh at how gullible he could be through his pure desperation for a girlfriend. Granted I do think some trolls went a tad too far but funny none the less. The thing is though when Bob passed away I began to think things might be taking a dark twist given Chris' inability to work and his family having nothing to do with him and Barb. He became more of a curiosity to me than a joke. Like a car accident you can't look away from.

When he went through his quiet period soon after that I thought he would become just another chapter in internet folklore. Honestly I slightly hoped that would be the case as while he did bring a lot of shit on himself he had been essentially tormented and harassed for several years. With Bobs death I thought he might be forced to grow up...boy was I wrong.

Ever since his house caught fire his mental deterioration has just snowballed and its got to the stage where he doesn't even need trolls, he trolls himself. The Sonic blue arm thing has driven him completely demented and his recent "activities" makes you wonder how low he can actually sink.

 

[Marvin]

I actually don't think I agree with this, but it still disturbs me. Perhaps because I am exactly one of these people. I have observed Chris, never weened, never trolled him, never done anything, since 2008 or so. The reason I can't agree with it is that I can't even compare clicking on websites about people who deliberately maintained an Internet presence for years and desperately tried to attract attention to even a relatively minor offense like being a looky-loo and slowing down traffic to look at an accident while passing it.

I'm not comparing observers and trolls in how severe their impacts are. I'm just saying they're both part of the issue.

Like, consider the posters on this forum. We're the people the weens are trying to impress. One more person posting here is one more person for the ween to curry favor with. It makes their potential audience bigger.

I don't blame anyone on here, of course. If Chris is acting like a jackass, people are going to talk about it. That's just natural.

But the end result is that there's a feedback loop: a troll tricks Chris to prove to everyone how epic they are, then everyone talks about how epic the troll was, and then another troll tricks Chris to prove to everyone how epic they are and on and on.

 

[qld]

I'm not comparing observers and trolls in how severe their impacts are. I'm just saying they're both part of the issue.

Like, consider the posters on this forum. We're the people the weens are trying to impress. One more person posting here is one more person for the ween to curry favor with. It makes their potential audience bigger.

I don't blame anyone on here, of course. If Chris is acting like a jackass, people are going to talk about it. That's just natural.

But the end result is that there's a feedback loop: a troll tricks Chris to prove to everyone how epic they are, then everyone talks about how epic the troll was, and then another troll tricks Chris to prove to everyone how epic they are and on and on.

And the ratings and trophies one can earn here encourages a race to collect said ratings and trophies. If you can be the first to post the new facebook update about sardines, that oughta be good for some positive ratings, right? So then you have people scrutinizing him, monitoring his online accounts, taking pictures of him in public (even when he's behaving), among other things. Even celebrities don't tolerate having their privacy violated to such an extent. Even Bob Dylan took issue with the guy that dug through his garbage (see: Keep the Fuck Outta My Goddam Garbage).

 

[Holdek]

I'm not comparing observers and trolls in how severe their impacts are. I'm just saying they're both part of the issue.

Like, consider the posters on this forum. We're the people the weens are trying to impress. One more person posting here is one more person for the ween to curry favor with. It makes their potential audience bigger.

I don't blame anyone on here, of course. If Chris is acting like a jackass, people are going to talk about it. That's just natural.

But the end result is that there's a feedback loop: a troll tricks Chris to prove to everyone how epic they are, then everyone talks about how epic the troll was, and then another troll tricks Chris to prove to everyone how epic they are and on and on.

Yeah, but isn't that kind analogous to someone trying to kill a celebrity or a political figure in order to become famous? In that case, anyone who reads the newspaper is part of the issue.

 

[Marvin]

And the ratings and trophies one can earn here encourages a race to collect said ratings and trophies. If you can be the first to post the new facebook update about sardines, that oughta be good for some positive ratings, right?

Definitely.

So then you have people scrutinizing him, monitoring his online accounts, taking pictures of him in public (even when he's behaving), among other things. Even celebrities don't tolerate having their privacy violated to such an extent. Even Bob Dylan took issue with the guy that dug through his garbage (see: Keep the Fuck Outta My Goddam Garbage).

Actually, I disagree. Except digging through garbage, that's precisely what celebrities deal with. Being recognized in public, watching their online accounts, etc. Chris is just a bizarre example of what'll make you a celebrity in the internet age.

Yeah, but isn't that kind analogous to someone trying to kill a celebrity or a political figure in order to become famous? In that case, anyone who reads the newspaper is part of the issue.

Oh, they are part of the issue. But again, I'm not assigning blame. It's just the nature of fame in general.

The difference is in how severe the action is. Killing someone's pretty severe. But just calling Chris isn't that severe. To the weens, they think: hey, if I call Chris and shout julay, he might flip out! and that'll be hilarious! And plus, he's got people pestering him all the time, one more call can't hurt, right?

Given their logic, the ween is making the right decision. The observers are making the right decision. But ultimately with those decisions, we end up with Chris.

 

[Relax Guy]

But the end result is that there's a feedback loop: a troll tricks Chris to prove to everyone how epic they are, then everyone talks about how epic the troll was, and then another troll tricks Chris to prove to everyone how epic they are and on and on.

A troll's responsibility for their own actions isn't diminished by the fact that there are people to impress, or people who want to see him get trolled.

 

[qld]

Yeah, but isn't that kind analogous to someone trying to kill a celebrity or a political figure in order to become famous? In that case, anyone who reads the newspaper is part of the issue.

I remember only one case of that, and it was John Hinckley, JR, Jodie Foster & Ronald Reagan. Hinckley wanted to impress Foster, he thought that being the assassin of a President (it was almost Carter, but he dragged his feet until the Reagan administration) would elevate him to her level of fame. To follow through, we all know Foster isn't going to be impressed with Hinckley because he's now on the front page of every paper. He got fame, but fame didn't get him what he desired. A normal person wouldn't conclude that assassinating the President would earn them the respect of someone they don't even know. If someone does believe that, society should have some duty to not feed the sickness.

Interestingly enough, Hinckley has been diagnosed with narcissistic and schizoid personality disorders and dysthymia as well as borderline and passive-aggressive features. Read the descriptions, and take what you already know about Chris, and the two sound similarly afflicted.

 

[Marvin]

A troll's responsibility for their own actions isn't diminished by the fact that there are people to impress, or people who want to see him get trolled.

Of course not.

Edit: To elaborate, it's like assassins. Hitmen are obviously still responsible for their murders, but considering their motivations (money) is helpful sometimes.

 

[Arctic]

This entire thread is pretty much pointless. No matter how much you police the community, there will always be a couple of people who are willing to go the extra mile and see how far they can get. Case in point: Dorian Thorn and his dick (or the lack thereoff).

 

[Friends of A-Log]

Definitely.

Actually, I disagree. Except digging through garbage, that's precisely what celebrities deal with. Being recognized in public, watching their online accounts, etc. Chris is just a bizarre example of what'll make you a celebrity in the internet age.

Oh, they are part of the issue. But again, I'm not assigning blame. It's just the nature of fame in general.

The difference is in how severe the action is. Killing someone's pretty severe. But just calling Chris isn't that severe. To the weens, they think: hey, if I call Chris and shout julay, he might flip out! and that'll be hilarious! And plus, he's got people pestering him all the time, one more call can't hurt, right?

Given their logic, the ween is making the right decision. The observers are making the right decision. But ultimately with those decisions, we end up with Chris.

Celebrities have an entire PR staff to assist them. Chris has Barb, Renee (or some other troll) and Anna.

 

[Marvin]

Celebrities have an entire PR staff to assist them. Chris has Barb, Renee (or some other troll) and Anna.

The bigger celebrities, anyway. Smaller celebrities might just have an agent.

 

[TheAutisticDriver]

By any account we are taking pleasure in the torment of another human being, that's the truth. So it's pretty terrible anyway you cut it.

Wether Chrissy would have turned out any different or if the trolls helped him is rather academic as any "normal"person would condem what we do as they would only see a group of people picking on a exceptional individual. And they're right IMHO

Personally I'm ok with what we do but again I don't try to justify my interest or actions I just laugh my ass off at Chrissys antics and let karma be karma.

Plus I'm a terrible person anyway.

It makes me laugh when some of the people try to gaslight it as "trolling for his benefit". In what world would any kind of trolling wether it be with good or bad intentions motivate someone to better themselves? I know people would disagree with you and I but come on? Really? It's like openly cheating on your wife and saying your trying to fix the marriage. You really have to do some logical gymnastics to see this as anything other then enjoying the many failings of CWC.

 

[jemas42]

Do motivations really matter? Chris has, through his own actions, no one in his life to take care of him and tell him when he's being an idiot, other than trolls. Remember when he got the piercing? His mother, Anna, Kengle, everyone who is supposed to be there for him, basically just ignored it, while the trolls are the one who convinced him to get it out. Does it matter that Renee and Catie were doing it for less than honorable reasons, so long as Chris took it out before it became a major problem?

 

[General Juicer]

I think that people (un)intentionally overestimate the effect trolling has had on Chris's degradation because they feel that it's the only thing that they as outsiders can control, however limited the control really is. It's natural for people to want to imagine that they have more control over a situation than they really do have and if you have any sympathy for the dude Chris's downward spiral can be frustrating. So rather than just accepting that Chris is headed for perdition and there's nothing that anyone can really do, way too much stock is placed on the effect trolling has on his life.

The sad and salient fact of the matter is that if someone compiled a top 15 list of things that are contributing to Chris's continual downward spiral, trolling would maybe rank #14 or #15. I'm serious. Just for autism's sake, here's an unordered list of things that are no doubt causing him more stress than people going through his garbage and inventing fake sweethearts:

Spoiler

• Poor health and lack of exercise.
• Lack of effectiveness of meds.
• Lack of any face-to-face human contact.
• Terminal debt that restricts his purchases. This is something that all adults have to put up with, but no doubt Chris blows it out of proportion.
• Gender identity issues.
• A sense of victimization from legitimate authority figures like store managers and Mary Lee Walsh.
• Huge amounts of unstructure free time, leading to boredom.
• Unwanted realization of mortality after his father's death. Again, its something all adults have to put up with but if you're living on the margins like Chris does then this is the loss of an emotional pillar you're not getting over anytime soon.
• Having his sense of control constantly thwarted by events like blue arms, getting his apology letters ignored/thrown out, etc.
• Related to the above two points, frustration at the world around him constantly changing without consulting him. A lot of adults a lot more well-adjusted than Chris struggle with the angst of being knocked out of his comfort zone, but because his world is so dull and static from day-to-day even small changes cause huge aftershocks for him.
• Being constantly surrounded by his mom's hoarding.
• Having no progress on getting his Crystal or finding a romantic partner.
• Putting up with his crazy-ass mother.
• The realization that his Sonichu franchise isn't going anywhere and won't bring him the fame and fortune he thinks that he deserves. Once again the frustration of the death of youthful dreams is something that all adults have to put up with. But, you know, Chris is Chris.

Don't get me wrong, trolling isn't a harmless thing to do, especially the more fucked-up ones like BlueSpike and the fake gal-pals revelation. My fascination with Sonichu and more indirectly the Chris phenomenon is something I won't cop to in polite company. But the melodrama this board and this thread has had over trolls is bathetic and comical. It's like when examining all of the factors that led someone to commit suicide (divorce, parents going into dementia, stalled career, access to guns, lack of medication) people start clucking their tongues about what horrible people the office pranksters and lunch pilferers were, driving that poor man into his grave.

 

[Tragi-Chan]

I think that people (un)intentionally overestimate the effect trolling has had on Chris's degradation because they feel that it's the only thing that they as outsiders can control, however limited the control really is. It's natural for people to want to imagine that they have more control over a situation than they really do have and if you have any sympathy for the dude Chris's downward spiral can be frustrating. So rather than just accepting that Chris is headed for perdition and there's nothing that anyone can really do, way too much stock is placed on the effect trolling has on his life.

The sad and salient fact of the matter is that if someone compiled a top 15 list of things that are contributing to Chris's continual downward spiral, trolling would maybe rank #14 or #15. I'm serious. Just for autism's sake, here's an unordered list of things that are no doubt causing him more stress than people going through his garbage and inventing fake sweethearts:

Spoiler

• Poor health and lack of exercise.
• Lack of effectiveness of meds.
• Lack of any face-to-face human contact.
• Terminal debt that restricts his purchases. This is something that all adults have to put up with, but no doubt Chris blows it out of proportion.
• Gender identity issues.
• A sense of victimization from legitimate authority figures like store managers and Mary Lee Walsh.
• Huge amounts of unordered free time, leading to boredom.
• Realization of mortality coming about from his father's death. Again, something all adults have to put up with but if you're living on the margins like Chris is this is the loss of an emotional anchor you're not getting over.
• Having his sense of control constantly thwarted by shit like blue arms, getting his apology letters ignored/thrown out, etc.
• Related to the two points above, frustration at the world around him constantly changing without consulting him. A lot of adults a lot more well-adjusted than Chris struggle with the angst of being knocked out of his comfort zone, but because his world is so dull and static from day-to-day even small changes cause huge aftershocks for him.
• Being constantly surrounded by his mom's hoarding.
• Having no progress on getting his Crystal or finding a romantic partner.
• Putting up with his crazy-ass mother.
• The realization that his Sonichu franchise isn't going anywhere and won't bring him the fame and fortune he thinks that he deserves. Once again it's something that all adults have to put up with: the frustration of the death of youthful dreams. But, you know, Chris is Chris.

Don't get me wrong, trolling isn't a harmless thing to do, especially the more fucked-up ones like BlueSpike and the fake gal-pals revelation. My fascination with Sonichu and more indirectly the Chris phenomenon is something I won't cop to in polite company. But the melodrama this board and this thread has had over trolls is bathetic and comical. It's like when examining all of the factors that led someone to commit suicide (divorce, parents going into dementia, stalled career, access to guns, lack of medication) people start clucking their tongues about what horrible people the office pranksters and lunch pilferers were, driving that poor man into his grave.

I would say that the lack of face-to-face human contact is partly down to Chris' increasing and frankly quite understandable paranoia over everyone he meets being a troll, but apart from that I largely agree with this point. Chris was lazy, arrogant, immature, stupid and socially awkward long before the trolling started, and those are the biggest factors in his current situation. All that would be different without the trolls is that it might have taken longer for him to get to this stage, but basically it was always coming.

 

[Smokedaddy]

My take on it: Don't. Just don't.

Pointing and laughing is what these forums are for. Point and laugh all you like. If he wants to come in here and stir the pot, that's fine and he'll get the double-pronged dicking he asks for, but left to his own devices his own spontaneous cow lolling is sufficient and more extreme than anything any of us can come up with or provoke. It's funnier that way. No external pot-stirring is needed, wanted, nor (although it is a blurry line) allowed. Thumping your duck on the table doesn't prove anything to me about how witty you are, and after all I'm the one you want to impress.

 

[Thetan]

Chris didn't even get a fair shake in his pepper spray incident, because most people that go crazy and chimp out in public wouldn't be recognized by some random customer before the assault. But that tumblr user recognized Chris, and knew that even if Chris was minding his own business and not causing a scene, there is an audience ready to devour footage of Chris. Any footage. Sure, GameStop probably had surveillance, but there's always the chance the cameras are down, the angle is bad, it's grainy or there is no audio. But Chris didn't get the same chance other random wackos would've had.

Chris publicly admitted the events captured on the video in a public Facebook post. This really isn't a "benefit of the doubt" type situation.

Do motivations really matter? Chris has, through his own actions, no one in his life to take care of him and tell him when he's being an idiot, other than trolls. Remember when he got the piercing? His mother, Anna, Kengle, everyone who is supposed to be there for him, basically just ignored it, while the trolls are the one who convinced him to get it out. Does it matter that Renee and Catie were doing it for less than honorable reasons, so long as Chris took it out before it became a major problem?

I've always been of the opinion that there were certain situations where trolling was actually beneficial to Chris. For example, when Chris was waging war on Clyde and Alec, it kept him sufficiently distracted that it kept him from getting into actual trouble (vandalizing private property, for example). I'm not suggesting that this legitimizes trolling: what I'm saying is that maybe trolling is the lesser of the two evils, at least in certain situations.

I'd much rather see Chris make videos ranting about Sanic and his blarms. This would benefit the community by giving us something to amuse ourselves with and benefit Chris by providing him with a more benign outlet for his rage and frustration.

 

[Marvin]

I've always been of the opinion that there were certain situations where trolling was actually beneficial to Chris. For example, when Chris was waging war on Clyde and Alec, it kept him sufficiently distracted that it kept him from getting into actual trouble (vandalizing private property, for example). I'm not suggesting that this legitimizes trolling: what I'm saying is that maybe trolling is the lesser of the two evils, at least in certain situations.

I'd much rather see Chris make videos ranting about Sanic and his [literally too autistic to type blue arms]. This would benefit the community by giving us something to amuse ourselves with and benefit Chris by providing him with a more benign outlet for his rage and frustration.

Barb won't babysit Chris, so Chris either finds troll babysitters online or finds the police IRL to babysit him.

 

[Le Bateleur]

I'm sure there are any number of online distractions for Chris that don't involve him performing for our amusement, though.

 

[Thetan]

I'm sure there are any number of online distractions for Chris that don't involve him performing for our amusement, though.

The sad reality is that anywhere Chris goes, he's going to attract unwanted attention. People are either going to laugh at him or call him out on his BS (or both). He's made trouble in the various online gaming communities without any prompting from trolls.

At this point, anything is a better outlet for him than his little vigilante kick.