Plagued Nice Guys

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trashbat said:
what often gets lost in translation is that many emotional needs women find satisfied by platonic relationships, men only have fulfilled in romantic ones. this shit only sounds dumb because nobody knows how to talk about it
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You're not wrong, but I don't think that applies here. People with bad mindsets around friendships probably don't make great friends with either gender.

The problem is the "nice guy" here hasn't entered into an actual relationship in his mind, he has entered into a transaction.

"Listen to all of my problems and keep me company" in a normal, healthy relationship (friendship or otherwise) generally falls into the "being an actual friend" category. If it's how you spend a majority of your time with a specific friend and it is not how you want to spend your time with that friend, you are the one who needs to fix or end the friendship.

The nice guy doesn't see it that way because "listen to all of my problems ..." to him, is him doing his part in the transaction. Once he does his part, he expects her to do hers (which is bang him).

He's getting mad, because in his eyes, it's just a larger scale equivalent of "the snack machine took my dollar and didn't give me my doritos".
 
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trashbat said:
most men are uncomfortable with casual affection and emotional openness. you could tell me that's not the case for literally all men, and you'd be right, but also exceptional because that's obviously not what's being said
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Literally NOBODY on this planet, male, female or any number of the 70-odd gender options in the year of our lawd, is comfortable with casual affection or emotional openness.

Even in friendships that did not involve the Nice Guy Orbit dynamic, a give and take applies where the unloading party is expected to make up for the emotional labour.

I have seen men do this all the time with other men. They unload on someone, then next time they gotta buy said someone a meal or drink. Just because it is a woman does not mean the meal or drink is magically converted to sex.

This just seems to be that weird extension of "oh no we can't be friends with the girls, girls are stupid and have girl germs!!!"
 
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Popoto said:
Literally NOBODY on this planet, male, female or any number of the 70-odd gender options in the year of our lawd, is comfortable with casual affection or emotional openness.

Even in friendships that did not involve the Nice Guy Orbit dynamic, a give and take applies where the unloading party is expected to make up for the emotional labour.

I have seen men do this all the time with other men. They unload on someone, then next time they gotta buy said someone a meal or drink. Just because it is a woman does not mean the meal or drink is magically converted to sex.

This just seems to be that weird extension of "oh no we can't be friends with the girls, girls are stupid and have girl germs!!!"
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What type of interactions are expected in a friendship or romatic relationship and if there is or not an assumption that you need to 'pay' in some kind for 'emotional labor' depends a lot in your upbringing, your country's culture, your personality, social circle and many other factors all mixed together, since this is a site with a wide variety of users background and Incels are probably too (yeah, they may be more likely to come from single mother households but what about bullying in school? Country's culture? Any other random stuff that may have marked them? I don't think we would be able to pinpoint an absolute explanation for this type of behaviour.

I can personally say that I have not seen the type of behaviour you are speaking of in my male friends, I'm also not from the USA (or probably any other country you may be), the assumption I have seen is that 'emotional labor' (I wouldn't call it that but I get why you did) is repayed with emotional labor from the other party at some other time. This doesn't mean what you say doesn't happen but humans interactions and the rules they follow are basically infinitely variable depending on a lot of stuff.
 
iforgotmypassword said:
What type of interactions are expected in a friendship or romatic relationship and if there is or not an assumption that you need to 'pay' in some kind for 'emotional labor' depends a lot in your upbringing, your country's culture, your personality, social circle and many other factors all mixed together, since this is a site with a wide variety of users background and Incels are probably too (yeah, they may be more likely to come from single mother households but what about bullying in school? Country's culture? Any other random stuff that may have marked them? I don't think we would be able to pinpoint an absolute explanation for this type of behaviour.

I can personally say that I have not seen the type of behaviour you are speaking of in my male friends, I'm also not from the USA (or probably any other country you may be), the assumption I have seen is that 'emotional labor' (I wouldn't call it that but I get why you did) is repayed with emotional labor from the other party at some other time. This doesn't mean what you say doesn't happen but humans interactions and the rules they follow are basically infinitely variable depending on a lot of stuff.
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Wow that's a lot of words for "where I come from, we don't buy each other drinks as part of emotional unloading/bonding".

For decades now, we have a special class of people to emotionally unload to, and we pay a lot of money for their time. They are called therapists.

Yes, different cultures are quite resistant to therapy, and many believe therapy does not work or is a waste of money when, as you say, you can emotionally unload on your close enough friend for the price of a bong/drink/meal/reciprocal emotional labor by listening to their shit when the time comes.

Different cultures may have different ideas on how to reciprocate, I am not quibbling about that.

My main point is, none of the accepted reciprocal acts include sex because transactional sexual intercourse is the universal definition of prostitution.
 
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If you can only speak using overly-complicated language, it's pretty much an indicator that there's something wrong with your social skills, which to most people is a subconscious warning sign to avoid you, because if you fuck up something as simple as talking, what else are you going to get wrong, the bit about not digging through people's trash to learn more about them?
 
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DrJonesHat said:
If you can only speak using overly-complicated language, it's pretty much an indicator that there's something wrong with your social skills, which to most people is a subconscious warning sign to avoid you, because if you fuck up something as simple as talking, what else are you going to get wrong, the bit about not digging through people's trash to learn more about them?
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It's not that they can't; it's that they have a fixed idea in their minds of what's best, and refuse to admit that they might be mistaken in it or that it might be subjective. They're impressed with people who talk like they masturbate with a thesaurus, so they assume the rest of us are as well. But you're not wrong that it can indicate someone who's apt to ignore valid boundaries, because arrogant and empathy-impaired people don't understand "no."

Monsieur Guillotine said:
This is what happens when you believe that women only like jerks, but the only jerk you can think of to emulate is a twirly-mustached goon from some movie nobody's seen but you.
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It's what happens when you watch Titanic and miss the part where Rose's engagement was arranged and imposed on her.
 
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Vorhtbame said:
They're impressed with people who talk like they masturbate with a thesaurus, so they assume the rest of us are as well.
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People like this usually also misuse the fancy words they use, so they fail to impress people who couldn't give a shit less about their vocabulary, and embarrass themselves in front of people who actually know what those words they're using mean.
 
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