Weeb Wars / AnimeGate / #KickVic / #IStandWithVic / #vickicksback - General Discussion Thread

DBZA doesn't make money directly, which is the only thing that counts when it comes to copyright. Toei's problem is that they're stuck in the 19th century and don't understand what fair use parody is. This is extremely common of Japanese companies. They insist that they need to use DRM protection in games, they don't understand that piracy is 99% composed of people who never would have bought their game to begin with, and they very much don't understand fanmade works. There's a misunderstanding where people believe Japan is ahead of the game because it allows doujinshi, but in reality that's a closely regulated business that mostly exists because the companies feel looking the other way will be less trouble for them than trying to stomp it out, not because they actually realize it's good for their business. That's why every once in a while you'll hear about them attacking doujin, or going after scanlation sites that only cater to countries their manga isn't released in yet.

Japan is rabid about its copyright, and doesn't understand fair use or 'this loss leader increases fan support' at all.



Wow this is wordy.

Natewantstobattle accused someone of raping his girlfriend I think in 2017, this wasn't just 'unable to be proven', it was actually proven to be a lie, and he had to back off. Nate's not really that important though, so the scandal never really blew up and most people missed it.

Toei is limited in how much control they actually have over DBZ casting. It's not completely impossible to get someone on TFS voicing someone in DBZ. The two rules they'd need to follow for that is that the VA in question couldn't voice someone they have in DBZA, and they can't use a recognizable voice they used in DBZA. Basically Lani can't use his Vegeta voice, Taka can't use his Nappa voice, neither can voice those characters, but they could theoretically voice Hit in their speaking voice. As for why they haven't, that's likely because Sabat's pet project gets lower priority with roles than the insiders he's known for decades.

Also, let me clear something up - Toei has no control over DBZA. No matter how many times they throw a temper tantrum and yank down DBZA videos, they actually cannot remove them so long as they only release videos that include clips that Funimation has the license to. (So up to he latest Super episode posted on their website) Youtube is broken, so Toei can flex on them and yank their videos, but they actually have no right to do so. Funimation has complete control of the distribution of Dragon ball content in America and whatever other territories Funimation owns the licenses to. That's why TFS' relationship with Funimation is so important. Although Toei can flex on Funimation and say "those people can't do that segment" or "Vic has to voice Broly" they're legally unable to say "That dragon ball content can't be on youtube".

If Toei yanks the rights from Funimation, the rights will then move to whatever other company they give the rights to - and if TFS is smart they'll delist all their videos until that happens, so Toei can't strike them, and hope for the new company to be sympathetic to them (and I doubt very much that "you must destroy DBZA" will be a part of a new contract, because if Toei wanted that to be a dealbreaker it already would be with Funimation).

It's not just DB content creators. Broly is insanely divisive in fandom and pretty much always has been. He was a stupid but mediocre character in his first movie that a select part of fandom went insane over because "HIS POWER IS MAXIMUM" and then due to that select part wanking him into oblivion he kept getting sequel movies that were progressively worse. If I recall correctly, half of TFS are actually Broly fans. I think maybe Kaiser or Takahata liked Broly? The other half, Lani included, hated him. It's nothing to do with Vic and everything to do with him being the distilled embodiment of the worst of Dragon ball Z. If you remember the webcomic 'Dragonball Multiverse' (which ended up weirdly similar to Super) that also got big for a while, they had the same schism in their fanbase over including Broly.

I very much doubt Vic becoming 'the Don', that was just a hypothetical I was using. However, I can pretty handily guarantee that Sabat will lose his power. Ty is incensed with Sabat in particular, and Vic is really not pleased with him, either. Much as I used to be a fan of Sabat, if Vic's lawsuit is successful I don't see this ending any other way than Sabat getting dragged through the streets and exposed. I suspect any settlement he gets - even if he tries - will be more painful than Ron's.

Say what you will about Pewdiepie, but that man is a genius at Youtube. You don't make it to #1 for five-to-seven years, and then only lose out to Youtube literally rigging a giant company to beat you and still survive for most of a year in that impossible battle without knowing exactly how to play Youtube. He's even survived multiple content shifts and controversies. One of either of those is usually enough to fell a youtuber. What I'm getting at is that just because Pewdiepie managed something doesn't necessarily mean it can easily be done by others. He's surprisingly shrewd.



I don't know what that means. I'm afraid I never got into Channel Awesome. The only CA person I kept track of at all was Spoony until he moved from the Jontron style of reviews to basically extra lazy let's play content.



Toei can't overcome copyright laws, but TFS doesn't have the money to fight them on it. That's why they need Daddy Funimation to protect them, and as we've determined from both this lawsuit and their publicly available history, that's really 'Daddy Sabat'. Though it's possible if Funimation retains the rights they may keep protecting DBZA even if Sabat get's screwed, so long as TFS doesn't stab Funimation in the back along the way. Chris Ayres likes TeamFourStar enough that he says LK's Frieza voice informed his own, and as mentioned everyone but Sean Schemmel is on record enjoying DBZA.



But OJ and Nicole were divorced when she was murdered. Assuming he did murder her, it was very clearly a crime of passion. This allegory is complete nonsense unless they're arguing that Vic is in danger of losing his mind and going on a murder spree.

Oh dear god! There is just so much wrong there. To start off regarding any thoughts of Toei not being able to do anything about TFS because DBZ is licensed to Funi in the States and Funi is in some way protecting them? Yeah, no! That’s actually the exact opposite of how such licensing works. Toei has the legal obligation as the root IP owner to protect the value of the license that Funi has contracted. Technically Funi isn’t supposed to go after TFS directly, the way such licenses work is they pass the complaint up and the owner takes action. Toei can be sued for failing to take action. Funi can neither complain nor prevent such action. And Toei is well within their rights to block any participants in unlicensed bootlegging of their IP from in any way being a participant in official offerings. This isn’t like the old days of WEP and Harmony Gold where full rights are signed away for a small lump sum. Where the American localizers could literally buy the IP because they were viewed as valueless.

Something else to keep in mind. We throw Toei around a lot, without ever realizing who or what Toei actually is. Japan doesn’t have particularly strong anti trust laws. Nor have they ever had laws demanding separation between children’s tv producers and toy manufacturers. These companies are a incestuous Byzantine web that for the most part leads back to one main player. Bandai. Or rather the corporate overlord Bandai Namco. Bandai Namco either outright owns (Sunrise) or has controlling interest in ( Toei, Tsubaraya). (An easy way to see which studios Bandai owns or controls is to look at the toy lines they produce year after year as opposed to short runs). Bandai is an IP controlling behemoth on par with Disney.
 
Bwahahaha lmao bye whore.
Not too keen on a guy born in 98 voicing him because it makes me feel old. Allegedly his acting in Heroes is very bland.

Anyway f!Byleth all the way.
This is what happens when you fuck up NDA's so Niosi and Cocksucker thot Vee can cry about it meanwhile Rena Strober remains pure
Niosi is 32 years old. Not sure if that'll make you feel worse or better. Unless you mean Zach Aguillar.
 
Natewantstobattle accused someone of raping his girlfriend I think in 2017, this wasn't just 'unable to be proven', it was actually proven to be a lie, and he had to back off. Nate's not really that important though, so the scandal never really blew up and most people missed it.

Wow, Funi really knows how to pick em don't they. Like I said, he's the one who did the Dub cover of the ToP OP.

It's not just DB content creators. Broly is insanely divisive in fandom and pretty much always has been.

I'm aware of that, I mean that a majority, if not all, of the DB content creators hate Broly. The reaction they had to the DBS movie (when it was announced that the 'mystery saiyan' on top of the mountain was broly but before it was announced that it was a reboot) was negative as alot of them stated that they hated broly. Also vic could've been the reason for someone. It's an option, it doesn't mean they all hate him or hate broly because of him.

If I recall correctly, half of TFS are actually Broly fans. I think maybe Kaiser or Takahata liked Broly? The other half, Lani included, hated him. It's nothing to do with Vic and everything to do with him being the distilled embodiment of the worst of Dragon ball Z.

I think kaiser posted something about broly being a shit character when it was revealed what the DBS movie was about. Not sure about taka

I very much doubt Vic becoming 'the Don', that was just a hypothetical I was using. However, I can pretty handily guarantee that Sabat will lose his power. Ty is incensed with Sabat in particular, and Vic is really not pleased with him, either. Much as I used to be a fan of Sabat, if Vic's lawsuit is successful I don't see this ending any other way than Sabat getting dragged through the streets and exposed. I suspect any settlement he gets - even if he tries - will be more painful than Ron's.

Like I said, I can guarantee that even if Sabat loses power, it's not going to be much. Maybe he loses whatever deal he has with funimation but he won't lose much business because, as evidenced in recent times, companies would much rather be 'woke' than to side with logical things. Not to mention, I would think Sabat is smart enough to settle out of cour
 
Pretty sure TFS’s opinion on original Broly as a character was that he’s a cool concept and everything, but the backstory characterization of “he’s mad at Goku for crying as a baby” is what makes it stupid.

Hell, Vegeta in the Broly Abridged movie summed it up pretty well.

 
Pretty sure TFS’s opinion on Broly as a character was that he’s a cool concept and everything, but the backstory characterization of “he’s mad at Goku for crying as a baby” is what makes it stupid.

Hell, Vegeta in the Broly Abridged movie summed it up pretty well.

I prefer Super's Broly over regular Broly. Really shows what happens when you have actual characterization.
 
I feel some people on here are taking things a bit too seriously. And by that, I mean it seems like they want everyone even remotely or tangentially related to Funimation to burn down and be disgraced. It’s fine to want karmic retribution or whatever, but keep it in perspective.
I'd like to see Vic win this and move on with his gay pants, and for the major players in the conspiracy to lose all ability to every do anything like this again.

Although to be honest, I would't mind if they were all turned into a giant human Centipede.
 
Wasn't NatewantstoBattle dating Christina Vee in 2017.
Seems to be. They were also engaged for a while until they separated. I guess this explains why she was so bitchy about Vic's "crocodile tears".
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https://twitter.com/CristinaVee/status/949898850654826496?s=20

There's a link to a tweet on Wikipedia with their separation, but it looks like the tweet was deleted.
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Pretty sure TFS’s opinion on Broly as a character was that he’s a cool concept and everything, but the backstory characterization of “he’s mad at Goku for crying as a baby” is what makes it stupid.

Hell, Vegeta in the Broly Abridged movie summed it up pretty well.

I find it surprising in a nice way that people actually care about Vic being Broly. Broly barely had any lines in the 4 movies he's been in. Nothing really important. Personally I wanted Vic back as well but I hate when they change voices and was glad someone who was a legacy VA getting brought back. Glad they didn't bring Disturbed back though.

As for Broly (DBZ autism ahead): He is hands down the coolest saiyan. Goku going SS was built up by Vegeta as a prophecy; a super saiyan is born every 1000 years. Supposedly Goku was the legend. It's actually Broly, who is, so you see what the "real" SS is supposed to be when he takes on Goku and Vegeta.

He's essentially the best lore and a show of how badass the saiyans are supposed to be.
 
I very much doubt that 'the evil' was an English addition, because "The Saga of Tanya" is not as snappy as "The Saga of Tanya the Evil". For one, Tanya is treated as 'evil', because she's devilishly driven to succeed and survive at all times, making her something of a sadistic monster, and for another "The Saga of Tanya" tells you nothing. Why should I care about Tanya? What about Tanya needs to have a saga? What kind of story is this? "The Evil" quantifies what kind of person the main character is, and therefore gives you an expectation that can either be met or subverted about what kind of story it has when you go to read it.
 
I very much doubt that 'the evil' was an English addition, because "The Saga of Tanya" is not as snappy as "The Saga of Tanya the Evil". For one, Tanya is treated as 'evil', because she's devilishly driven to succeed and survive at all times, making her something of a sadistic monster, and for another "The Saga of Tanya" tells you nothing. Why should I care about Tanya? What about Tanya needs to have a saga? What kind of story is this? "The Evil" quantifies what kind of person the main character is, and therefore gives you an expectation that can either be met or subverted about what kind of story it has when you go to read it.
I know nothing of the show save for those faces she makes and her origins, so I can fully buy this.
 
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Oh dear god! There is just so much wrong there. To start off regarding any thoughts of Toei not being able to do anything about TFS because DBZ is licensed to Funi in the States and Funi is in some way protecting them? Yeah, no! That’s actually the exact opposite of how such licensing works. Toei has the legal obligation as the root IP owner to protect the value of the license that Funi has contracted. Technically Funi isn’t supposed to go after TFS directly, the way such licenses work is they pass the complaint up and the owner takes action. Toei can be sued for failing to take action. Funi can neither complain nor prevent such action. And Toei is well within their rights to block any participants in unlicensed bootlegging of their IP from in any way being a participant in official offerings. This isn’t like the old days of WEP and Harmony Gold where full rights are signed away for a small lump sum. Where the American localizers could literally buy the IP because they were viewed as valueless.

Something else to keep in mind. We throw Toei around a lot, without ever realizing who or what Toei actually is. Japan doesn’t have particularly strong anti trust laws. Nor have they ever had laws demanding separation between children’s tv producers and toy manufacturers. These companies are a incestuous Byzantine web that for the most part leads back to one main player. Bandai. Or rather the corporate overlord Bandai Namco. Bandai Namco either outright owns (Sunrise) or has controlling interest in ( Toei, Tsubaraya). (An easy way to see which studios Bandai owns or controls is to look at the toy lines they produce year after year as opposed to short runs). Bandai is an IP controlling behemoth on par with Disney.

Clearly things aren't operating the way you believe, because otherwise Funimation would be unable to shield DBZA. In fact I believe TFS themselves have stated that the reason Funimation can protect them is because Funimation is the one with the rights to distribution, so while Toei can rattle its sabers and yank the videos off of YT (because YT is bad), they can't enforce or pursue it if Funimation says no.

However it's supposed to work, it's demonstrably working in the manner that allows Funimation to say "No, DBZA is allowed because we say so."

Does Toei have any controls on the games? Taka has used his Nappa voice for Xenoverse as a Time Patroller voice for Male characters

As mentioned, Toei doesn't have control over the games. Funimation does.

Pretty sure TFS’s opinion on original Broly as a character was that he’s a cool concept and everything, but the backstory characterization of “he’s mad at Goku for crying as a baby” is what makes it stupid.

Hell, Vegeta in the Broly Abridged movie summed it up pretty well.


Their official stance on it is that Broly is a cool concept that's stupidly executed in the first movie and then every part of him that was good and interesting is trampled into literal mush in his returns. I believe their general feeling about Super Broly is that he's Broly done much better. But then he's only had one movie so far, so we'll have to see how it goes. The Vegeta rambling is, I believe, Lani's take on Broly summarized into an amusing sentence.
 
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DBZA doesn't make money directly, which is the only thing that counts when it comes to copyright. Toei's problem is that they're stuck in the 19th century and don't understand what fair use parody is. This is extremely common of Japanese companies. They insist that they need to use DRM protection in games, they don't understand that piracy is 99% composed of people who never would have bought their game to begin with, and they very much don't understand fanmade works. There's a misunderstanding where people believe Japan is ahead of the game because it allows doujinshi, but in reality that's a closely regulated business that mostly exists because the companies feel looking the other way will be less trouble for them than trying to stomp it out, not because they actually realize it's good for their business. That's why every once in a while you'll hear about them attacking doujin, or going after scanlation sites that only cater to countries their manga isn't released in yet.

Japan is rabid about its copyright, and doesn't understand fair use or 'this loss leader increases fan support' at all.
Monetary gain is not the only factor as to whether a work is fair use. If TFS tried to argue that they are making videos for educational non-profit purposes, they could use that, if that were actually possible. TFS has a patreon for their work and sell merchandise several of which uses Toei's characters.

Toei is notch below Nintendo when it comes to protecting their copyright. Your entire tangent accusing Japanese video game companies about things perpetrated by video game companies all over the world tells me that you are fairly lost.

Toei is limited in how much control they actually have over DBZ casting. It's not completely impossible to get someone on TFS voicing someone in DBZ. The two rules they'd need to follow for that is that the VA in question couldn't voice someone they have in DBZA, and they can't use a recognizable voice they used in DBZA. Basically Lani can't use his Vegeta voice, Taka can't use his Nappa voice, neither can voice those characters, but they could theoretically voice Hit in their speaking voice. As for why they haven't, that's likely because Sabat's pet project gets lower priority with roles than the insiders he's known for decades.

Also, let me clear something up - Toei has no control over DBZA. No matter how many times they throw a temper tantrum and yank down DBZA videos, they actually cannot remove them so long as they only release videos that include clips that Funimation has the license to. (So up to he latest Super episode posted on their website) Youtube is broken, so Toei can flex on them and yank their videos, but they actually have no right to do so. Funimation has complete control of the distribution of Dragon ball content in America and whatever other territories Funimation owns the licenses to. That's why TFS' relationship with Funimation is so important. Although Toei can flex on Funimation and say "those people can't do that segment" or "Vic has to voice Broly" they're legally unable to say "That dragon ball content can't be on youtube".

If Toei yanks the rights from Funimation, the rights will then move to whatever other company they give the rights to - and if TFS is smart they'll delist all their videos until that happens, so Toei can't strike them, and hope for the new company to be sympathetic to them (and I doubt very much that "you must destroy DBZA" will be a part of a new contract, because if Toei wanted that to be a dealbreaker it already would be with Funimation).
The Nappa abridged voice has been blatantly used in video games and that's cause, as I already explained before, Toei has no involvement with the video games. In particular the dubbing process, which is done by Sabat's studio.

Toei is the original rights holder to the DBZ anime, not Funimation. They can strike down TFS videos all day cause they are using their footage. Funimation licensing DBZ doesn't magically make the footage theirs. Were Funimation not to have any fear of Toei then they would have kept the Cell Games segment during Buu Kai.

I get the feeling you're not very familiar with DBZA. It is not a "gag dub" where the sound is swapped out for a ha-ha funny track. It's not even like Dragonball Kai where the story is compressed, but remains the same. The visual component of DBZA is heavily edited to an extreme that things like MST3K never reach. George Lucas is dumb. He sued Weird Al for his parody song. He's not an indicator of how things normally work.

Anyone who watches Dragon ball Z Abridged instead of the original is a moron, because it isn't at all accurate. There's certain key moments that are accurate, but other points are wildly different. They've had to draw and animate entire scenes because their script went so far off from the original that there was no way to edit existing footage to work. DBZA is similar to AMVs. The footage is heavily edited. As long as they don't make money (they don't) and their intent isn't to create a substitute (it isn't) they're fine. Of course lawsuits are stupid expensive, so they'd still lose if Toei attacked them over it, but that's just because lawsuits are awful.

As mentioned previously, though, Toei actually can't attack DBZA legally so long as DBZ is locally licensed. The right to legal action goes to the license holder, because said holder has the sole discretion over how it's to be distributed.
I get the feeling you are larping as someone who thinks they know how laws actually work. The footage is not "heavily" edited. Your AMV example is perfect, as its also something that does not pass the fair use test. DBZA does not change the material into something unrecognizable. The "heart" of the original work is not changed enough to make an original work. Intention also is not a valid argument. Even if they never intended to compete with an original work, if the original rights holders fear that the market could be confused or have a competing product then the court might rule in their favor.

George Lucas is dumb. But Mel Brooks and Weird Al aren't. This is why both have asked permissions for their "parodies." In case you didn't know, most of Weird Al's songs aren't parodies as recognized by a court of law. Changing lyrics to a song to be about food does not pass the smell test. Basically "Eat it" or "Yoda" doesn't work but "Smells like Nirvana" would since the latter actively critiques specific aspects about the original song. Weird Al's videos would be easier to defend since they specifically mock aspects and techniques used in the original music videos.

I'd also like to know where you read that George Lucas sued Weird Al.

Clearly things aren't operating the way you believe, because otherwise Funimation would be unable to shield DBZA. In fact I believe TFS themselves have stated that the reason Funimation can protect them is because Funimation is the one with the rights to distribution, so while Toei can rattle its sabers and yank the videos off of YT (because YT is bad), they can't enforce or pursue it if Funimation says no.

However it's supposed to work, it's demonstrably working in the manner that allows Funimation to say "No, DBZA is allowed because we say so."
Toei passively takes down DBZA's videos. Meaning it's usually a bot or some other tool that takes them down. There's no Japanese guy subscribed to TFS waiting for an Abridged episode. Since Funimation is recognized by Youtube as a rights holder, they can help out TFS. But if the many false DMCAS filed out aren't enough an indication, let me spell it out for you. Youtube is not a court of law. Just cause Funimation can protect them on YT means jack shit.

As mentioned, Toei doesn't have control over the games. Funimation does.
Funimation only controls the localization process as I have stated several times at this point. TFS people sneak through because Bandai, the people with actual rights to the video games, do not give a shit.
 
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