Diseased #Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[Sissy Galvez]

Ok, so what’s the conclusion? To unionize and force comic publishers and companies to pay healthcare and higher wages when the industry is on life support?

The logical conclusion would require self awareness, introspection, and critical thinking. But that won’t happen because these idiots lack all that. The industry can’t afford to pay these idiots more or provide benefits. Comics fans by and large hate many of the people working in comics now because of their politica twatter posts. The industry continues to double down by hiring shit awful people like Ta Nahesi-Coates, Eve Ewing, Zoe Quinn, Roxanne Gay, etc. to try and entice idiots who don’t have money and who don’t read comics. It’s clearly not working.

The kickstarters by EVS and Meyers prove there is a market for comics.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

Ok, so what’s the conclusion? To unionize and force comic publishers and companies to pay healthcare and higher wages when the industry is on life support?

To raise awareness is the conclusion

 

[Agent Wet]

To raise awareness is the conclusion

And then what ? They think companies are just going to say ok then and it will be sunshine and rainbows from here I know it been said alot here but in order for a union to even work you have to be hard to replace due to being that good in a job or cost alot to replace which they are neither companies will do nothing about it at best or just replace you at worst and I highly doubt they going to do any self reflection because that would require at some point to admit you are wrong and they are too head up there asses to admit the possibility of that.

 

[elkinbub]

Oh cool Jon Del Aroz is going on the Ralph Retort

What are the odds on how many minutes it will take before EVS barges in, takes over, and insists on equal air time?
I'm giving it five minutes. Ethan will be listening from the beginning but will then appear in the chat five minutes in, and shortly after we'll hear Ralph say "Ethan Van Sciver is messaging me. Should we let him on?"

Ok, so what’s the conclusion? To unionize and force comic publishers and companies to pay healthcare and higher wages when the industry is on life support?

The logical conclusion would require self awareness, introspection, and critical thinking. But that won’t happen because these idiots lack all that. The industry can’t afford to pay these idiots more or provide benefits. Comics fans by and large hate many of the people working in comics now because of their politica twatter posts. The industry continues to double down by hiring shit awful people like Ta Nahesi-Coates, Eve Ewing, Zoe Quinn, Roxanne Gay, etc. to try and entice idiots who don’t have money and who don’t read comics. It’s clearly not working.

The kickstarters by EVS and Meyers prove there is a market for comics.

Look at your last sentence there.
Really look at it.
Sometimes people live in little bubbles and get myopic.
I once had a philosophy professor who said "Children like to have fun. We know this from Aristotle."
Really, you know that children like to have fun because of some argument of Aristotle's?
You don't know that children like to have fun simply from observing actual children?

"We know that there is a market for comics because of EVS and Meyer."
Oh really.
Somehow you missed all the other massive million-plus selling comics worldwide.
But Cyberfrog and Jawbreakers barely printing five figures finally legitimizes comics as commercially viable.

"So what's the conclusion?"
Fuck these companies. Who cares if they're forced to unionize.
All these companies are full of terrible people and generally make worse and worse products.
Who cares if Marvel reforms. Who cares if they go out of business.
Who cares if by some weird luck or corporate backing they become more successful.
Who cares.

Expand your fucking tastes. Why are you only caring about buying contemporary American comics?
Back issues are cheaper and better.
Go read some old Astro City or Cerebus.
You can probably find those in dollar bins pretty easily.
If you're like Richard C. Meyer, who has yet to review the X-Tinction Agenda or Jack Kirby Fourth World collections that fans bought him two years ago, but who thinks that early '90s Image Comics were actually really great . . . well you can find Jim Lee and Travis Charest WildCATs comics in the bargain bins for 25 cents apiece. Go read them.

ComicArtistPro Secrets on Twitter

“$25 isn't a ridiculous price for a 48 page comic at all. And I'm not marketing to a small niche group of fans. I'm marketing to people who watch YouTube content. Many of the people who purchased CYBERFROG BLOODHONEY have never purchased a comic book before. It's limitless.🐸...

twitter.com

^This should be a kill shot, a self-own.
Ethan Van Sciver is fine with a model where you pay $25 for 48 pages and wait eleven months for delivery.
If you're fine with that, I can't help you.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

What are the odds on how many minutes it will take before EVS barges in, takes over, and insists on equal air time?
I'm giving it five minutes. Ethan will be listening from the beginning but will then appear in the chat five minutes in, and shortly after we'll hear Ralph say "Ethan Van Sciver is messaging me. Should we let him on?"


Look at your last sentence there.
Really look at it.
Sometimes people live in little bubbles and get myopic.
I once had a philosophy professor who said "Children like to have fun. We know this from Aristotle."
Really, you know that children like to have fun because of some argument of Aristotle's?
You don't know that children like to have fun simply from observing actual children?

"We know that there is a market for comics because of EVS and Meyer."
Oh really.
Somehow you missed all the other massive million-plus selling comics worldwide.
But Cyberfrog and Jawbreakers barely printing five figures finally legitimizes comics as commercially viable.

"So what's the conclusion?"
Fuck these companies. Who cares if they're forced to unionize.
All these companies are full of terrible people and generally make worse and worse products.
Who cares if Marvel reforms. Who cares if they go out of business.
Who cares if by some weird luck or corporate backing they become more successful.
Who cares.

Expand your fucking tastes. Why are you only caring about buying contemporary American comics?
Back issues are cheaper and better.
Go read some old Astro City or Cerebus.
You can probably find those in dollar bins pretty easily.
If you're like Richard C. Meyer, who has yet to review the X-Tinction Agenda or Jack Kirby Fourth World collections that fans bought him two years ago, but who thinks that early '90s Image Comics were actually really great . . . well you can find Jim Lee and Travis Charest WildCATs comics in the bargain bins for 25 cents apiece. Go read them.


View attachment 964140

ComicArtistPro Secrets on Twitter

“$25 isn't a ridiculous price for a 48 page comic at all. And I'm not marketing to a small niche group of fans. I'm marketing to people who watch YouTube content. Many of the people who purchased CYBERFROG BLOODHONEY have never purchased a comic book before. It's limitless.🐸...

twitter.com

^This should be a kill shot, a self-own.
Ethan Van Sciver is fine with a model where you pay $25 for 48 pages and wait eleven months for delivery.
If you're fine with that, I can't help you.

That does sound like something Ethan (Ralph) And Ethan (Van Sciver) will do

 

[damian]

Rob is at it again:

 

[kaien]

Possibly unnecessary background: in the middle '90s Marvel hired Rob Liefeld and his studio to take over producing Captain America and the Avengers for 12 issues as part of the Heroes Reborn stunt event. The results were such shit that Marvel kicked them off the project halfway through. His Fighting American book was made out of the recycled Captain America pages he'd already drawn that Marvel deemed too crap to publish.

Rob, Marvel could have saved you from further embarrassing yourself, but you couldn't take the hint.

 

[CheezzyMach]

If Rob's not just blowing smoke out his ass he better have an iron clad case or the Mouse will assrape his bank account.

 

[Son of Sparda 84]

 

[Next Task]

Non-binaries dominate concept artists? Guess we know just how useless they are, then.

The thing is, I believe artists, writers et al should get royalties for their work. The amount of fuckery DC and Marvel have performed over the years - e.g. DC being especially notorious over Batman - to shut out the creators of characters that have earned them billions is amazing. I'm very much in favour of the creatives getting a financial stake in their creations.

But I'd say a large majority of people who answered this survey aren't valuable enough creatively to have the slightest bit of leverage - and their ongoing work on existing characters could be seen as deprecating the brands that they're working for. And when your talent level is low, and you're working in an industry where you're introducing nothing new that's valuable and the higher-ups can pick and choose which elements of the stories they can actually make profitable by putting it on screens...

So, sure, they're working hard for not enough money. They're undoubtedly getting taken advantage of - but they're also not producing particularly profitable work. And any sympathy I'd feel for them being crushed under the corporate boot is undercut by the fact that many of them are actively trying to repel sections of their audience for being 'not the right sort of people'.

And with what we know about the people represented in this survey, the people left in comics who are of value, who are creating stories that sell, have an incentive to not support their attempts to unionise. Because not only will it likely bring down the quality of their own work, but the companies will have reason to nudge out even the better performers for an unfireable dangerhair who they have to put somewhere.

tl;dr: Comics aren't dead, but the current model is definitely dying. And the people who are hastening that death are acting like they should be rewarded for their contributions. In theory, they should. But in practice, that's not going to work, and they'll just get hosed in the next downsizing, screaming to the unemployment line about how it's all about their identity rather than that they produce nothing of actual value.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

Rob is at it again:
View attachment 964342

Rob, I bet Todd can at least draw feet.

And we've all seen that infamous side-shot of Liefeld's Captain America. Rob, you're a nice guy but you failed anatomy class.

 

[Yosha]

fuck, i don't know what to do. I am deciding between buying a 48 page comic that i'll have to wait at least a year for or buying 3 volumes and 600+ pages of a manga series. Oh and all 3 volumes will cost me 30$ or less...... decisions decisions...

 

[AriZona_LaD]

Twitter poll results just before Ethan retweets.

Michael Lynch on Twitter

“If you backed Cyberfrog Blood Honey, will you be backing any future books from Ethan Van Sciver? Please retweet.”

twitter.com

Twitter

archived 9 Oct 2019 19:47:19 UTC

archive.fo

I'll add the final results when It's over. It is already radically shifting.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

View attachment 965235
Twitter poll results just before Ethan retweets.

Michael Lynch on Twitter

“If you backed Cyberfrog Blood Honey, will you be backing any future books from Ethan Van Sciver? Please retweet.”

twitter.com

Twitter

archived 9 Oct 2019 19:47:19 UTC

archive.fo

Again it all depends on how (for me) @FROG shows he will be moving forward and doing better. I will say this experience has dulled my excitement for the next campaign....but I look forward to Ethan turning that around

 

[AriZona_LaD]

Again it all depends on how (for me) @FROG shows he will be moving forward and doing better. I will say this experience has dulled my excitement for the next campaign....but I look forward to Ethan turning that around

I hope Ethan turns it around. I'm more interested in Ethan growing his business from just a YouTube channel Twitter and Indiegogo to maybe an Instagram and an Amazon online store. It is always better to branch out farther then Youtube because algorithm changes screw creators hard and its unpredictable.

In terms of the books value, 20 dollars for 50 pages seems steep. Marvel and DC have books that are better value right now. I don't really care about how @FROG behaves and whether I agree or disagree. I buy books from lots of guys I disagree with. The book should speak for itself and right now I don't think it's worth that many of my dollars. I'll go back to Manga like everyone else.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

I hope Ethan turns it around. I'm more interested in Ethan growing his business from just a YouTube channel Twitter and Indiegogo to maybe an Instagram and an Amazon online store. It is always better to branch out farther then Youtube because algorithm changes screw creators hard and its unpredictable.

I agree: likewise I think what Mitch is doing is the right idea. A more Hybrid business model. Because none of these Indi joints will fully push back into the cultural zeitgeist without a broader supply network that shops will allow for

 

[AnOminous]

View attachment 965235
Twitter poll results just before Ethan retweets.

Michael Lynch on Twitter

“If you backed Cyberfrog Blood Honey, will you be backing any future books from Ethan Van Sciver? Please retweet.”

twitter.com

Twitter

archived 9 Oct 2019 19:47:19 UTC

archive.fo

I'll add the final results when It's over. It is already radically shifting.

Too bad he simultaneously showed how it's possible for crowdfunding to be incredibly successful while also showing why it's shit and once artists get the money they shit themselves and do nothing. EVS at least actually finally delivered but he spent months publicly chimping out and acting like a dick in public, spending hours and hours every day on livestreams while people were waiting for what they paid for.

 

[Gee Willows Wilson!]

View attachment 964544

Joe, honey... This is New York City Comic Con... of course these two pictures look packed. But the sales are sales.

The shops dying, that's real. How many stories do you hear of people like me who went from $100+ pulls to occasionally picking on an issue here and there? Comics industry is DYING, not DEAD. Yes, you can get a fuck tonne of people coming to NYCCC when most of the venue is about exclusive toys, movies, anime/manga and TV... How many people were there to hear about Zoe Quinn's Addams Family run? You're a moron and disingenuous.

Too bad he simultaneously showed how it's possible for crowdfunding to be incredibly successful while also showing why it's shit and once artists get the money they shit themselves and do nothing. EVS at least actually finally delivered but he spent months publicly chimping out and acting like a dick in public, spending hours and hours every day on livestreams while people were waiting for what they paid for.

But also commenting on how a two hour drawn and quartered show is distracting comic creators who should be working on their books... Almost everyone has been late with their projects. He should just be happy they haven't been as late as Hawaii Dick or Leifeld or a lot of other scummy shits like Kwanzer putting his crowdfunded book on shelves before the people who gave him money up front.

 

[AnOminous]

But also commenting on how a two hour drawn and quartered show is distracting comic creators who should be working on their books... Almost everyone has been late with their projects. He should just be happy they haven't been as late as Hawaii Dick or Leifeld or a lot of other scummy shits like Kwanzer putting his crowdfunded book on shelves before the people who gave him money up front.

Wasn't Meyer on time despite having his publisher literally fuck him over thanks to Mark Waid?

 

[7proxy]

Too bad he simultaneously showed how it's possible for crowdfunding to be incredibly successful while also showing why it's shit and once artists get the money they shit themselves and do nothing.

I agree for the most part but to be fair, a lot of this is just growing pains. Look at Ya Boi Zack and how much he improved since his first Jawbreakers – Lost Souls campaign. I'm pretty sure he was months late on the one Waid torpedoed but he's got this shit on lock now.

Those that are the most late are artists who decided to take on the roles of writer/editor/publisher all at once. I hope that CG can evolve into something more cohesive and more structured instead of everyone self-publishing their stuff. Mitch Breitweiser got the right idea with creating Allegiance but he did so at the cost of his own Red Rooster comic. Somebody's got to bite the bullet and choose one: draw comics or publish comics.

I wonder why we don't hear more about Peter Simeti. Maybe I haven't followed the scene closely enough but he seems to have the publishing and distribution thing down (when he's not getting SWAT'ed) so if he created a more "prestige" imprint for CG's big hitters it could be their path to a more streamlined process.