US Cloudflare: "Terminating Service for 8Chan"


Terminating Service for 8Chan

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August 05, 2019 1:44AM


The mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio are horrific tragedies. In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as 8chan. Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a screed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart killing 20 people.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on 8chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand. The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on 8chan which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poway, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled “open letter” on 8chan. 8chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate.

8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

We do not take this decision lightly. Cloudflare is a network provider. In pursuit of our goal of helping build a better internet, we’ve considered it important to provide our security services broadly to make sure as many users as possible are secure, and thereby making cyberattacks less attractive — regardless of the content of those websites. Many of our customers run platforms of their own on top of our network. If our policies are more conservative than theirs it effectively undercuts their ability to run their services and set their own policies. We reluctantly tolerate content that we find reprehensible, but we draw the line at platforms that have demonstrated they directly inspire tragic events and are lawless by design. 8chan has crossed that line. It will therefore no longer be allowed to use our services.

What Will Happen Next

Unfortunately, we have seen this situation before and so we have a good sense of what will play out. Almost exactly two years ago we made the determination to kick another disgusting site off Cloudflare's network: the Daily Stormer. That caused a brief interruption in the site's operations but they quickly came back online using a Cloudflare competitor. That competitor at the time promoted as a feature the fact that they didn't respond to legal process. Today, the Daily Stormer is still available and still disgusting. They have bragged that they have more readers than ever. They are no longer Cloudflare's problem, but they remain the Internet's problem.

I have little doubt we'll see the same happen with 8chan. While removing 8chan from our network takes heat off of us, it does nothing to address why hateful sites fester online. It does nothing to address why mass shootings occur. It does nothing to address why portions of the population feel so disenchanted they turn to hate. In taking this action we've solved our own problem, but we haven't solved the Internet's.

In the two years since the Daily Stormer what we have done to try and solve the Internet’s deeper problem is engage with law enforcement and civil society organizations to try and find solutions. Among other things, that resulted in us cooperating around monitoring potential hate sites on our network and notifying law enforcement when there was content that contained an indication of potential violence. We will continue to work within the legal process to share information when we can to hopefully prevent horrific acts of violence. We believe this is our responsibility and, given Cloudflare's scale and reach, we are hopeful we will continue to make progress toward solving the deeper problem.

Rule of Law

We continue to feel incredibly uncomfortable about playing the role of content arbiter and do not plan to exercise it often. Some have wrongly speculated this is due to some conception of the United States' First Amendment. That is incorrect. First, we are a private company and not bound by the First Amendment. Second, the vast majority of our customers, and more than 50% of our revenue, comes from outside the United States where the First Amendment and similarly libertarian freedom of speech protections do not apply. The only relevance of the First Amendment in this case and others is that it allows us to choose who we do and do not do business with; it does not obligate us to do business with everyone.

Instead our concern has centered around another much more universal idea: the Rule of Law. The Rule of Law requires policies be transparent and consistent. While it has been articulated as a framework for how governments ensure their legitimacy, we have used it as a touchstone when we think about our own policies.

We have been successful because we have a very effective technological solution that provides security, performance, and reliability in an affordable and easy-to-use way. As a result of that, a huge portion of the Internet now sits behind our network. 10% of the top million, 17% of the top 100,000, and 19% of the top 10,000 Internet properties use us today. 10% of the Fortune 1,000 are paying Cloudflare customers.

Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it. Questions around content are real societal issues that need politically legitimate solutions. We will continue to engage with lawmakers around the world as they set the boundaries of what is acceptable in their countries through due process of law. And we will comply with those boundaries when and where they are set.

Europe, for example, has taken a lead in this area. As we've seen governments there attempt to address hate and terror content online, there is recognition that different obligations should be placed on companies that organize and promote content — like Facebook and YouTube — rather than those that are mere conduits for that content. Conduits, like Cloudflare, are not visible to users and therefore cannot be transparent and consistent about their policies.
The unresolved question is how should the law deal with platforms that ignore or actively thwart the Rule of Law? That's closer to the situation we have seen with the Daily Stormer and 8chan. They are lawless platforms. In cases like these, where platforms have been designed to be lawless and unmoderated, and where the platforms have demonstrated their ability to cause real harm, the law may need additional remedies. We and other technology companies need to work with policy makers in order to help them understand the problem and define these remedies. And, in some cases, it may mean moving enforcement mechanisms further down the technical stack.

Our Obligation

Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. At some level firing 8chan as a customer is easy. They are uniquely lawless and that lawlessness has contributed to multiple horrific tragedies. Enough is enough.

What's hard is defining the policy that we can enforce transparently and consistently going forward. We, and other technology companies like us that enable the great parts of the Internet, have an obligation to help propose solutions to deal with the parts we're not proud of. That's our obligation and we're committed to it.

Unfortunately the action we take today won’t fix hate online. It will almost certainly not even remove 8chan from the Internet. But it is the right thing to do. Hate online is a real issue. Here are some organizations that have active work to help address it:
Our whole Cloudflare team’s thoughts are with the families grieving in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio this evening.
 
Which is what I said. Civil judgments from normal people, no. (Although you might be responding to before I added that parenthetical.)
Right, I did. I wasn't sure about civil judgments. But a judgment can still be enforced against him, just not his government check. He could move to exclude certain property and resources but that still requires him to respond.

I'd sue if he was doing this to me just to fuck with him.
 
Sure would be a shame if someone started sending that screenshot @Yotsubaaa put up of him saying "nah, CP stays up". Would be a fucking shame if that blew back in his face and he gets labeled as a paedo.

For someone who is living in the fucking Philippines, he sure seems hellbent on bringing attention to himself.

1572740434082.png


No prohibition on posting your manifesto or linking to your mass shooting, I see.
 
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  • Thunk-Provoking
Reactions: Dork Of Ages
Yep. It's all hands on deck! Our boy @L33TGUY noticed that 8kun's host is ducking their emails, so now he wants to 'speak to the manager'.
It's a shame he stopped showing up here to make an ass of himself. His stratospheric levels of autism made his l33t cartoon hacker schtick so amusing. Truly hard to believe he's older than 16.

Despite his verbosity and his attempts to suckle on Null's rectum, he just could not defend his positions, and ended up showering the forum in spergy spittle.
 
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Hotwheels seems happy to take the credit either way.
View attachment 994552
(https://archive.li/PBKzm)


Yep. It's all hands on deck! Our boy @L33TGUY noticed that 8kun's host is ducking their emails, so now he wants to 'speak to the manager'.
View attachment 994557
(https://archive.li/8ORDP)
Code:
CEO: NICK DVAS  https://twitter.com/dvas He’s Russian
CEO EMAIL: nick@dvas.ru (CC HIM!)
EMAIL: ABUSE@SERVERS.COM

Domain in question: 8KUN.NET
IP in question: 62.113.112.43 via your customer VDSINA.RU

Dear Sir or Madam,

Please note that we have already contacted your downstream customer in control of this IP https://vdsina.ru via adbuse@vdsina.ru but they do not respond to emails as you can see here:

4.2.1 The user you are trying to contact is receiving mail at a rate that
4.2.1 prevents additional messages from being delivered. Please resend your
4.2.1 message at a later time.

In 2019, three terrorist manifestos were uploaded to 8chan. The terrorists in Christchurch, New Zealand, Poway, California, and El Paso, Texas, used 8chan to upload their manifestos. Between all three attacks, over 70 people died. Here is an archive of the ChristChurch massacre with the original post by the shooter Brenton Tarrant:  https://archive.st/archive/2019/3/8ch.net/7s0s/8ch.net/pol/res/12916717.html

WaPo reported that 8chan is an incubator for mass shooters: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/08/04/three-mass-shootings-this-year-began-with-hateful-screed-chan-its-founder-calls-it-terrorist-refuge-plain-sight/

As a result, 8chan was removed from many major American networks. It was deplatformed by Tucows, CloudFlare and Epik in August; and from Zare (UK) as "8kun" in October.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2019/08/05/tucows-drops-8chan-domain-registration-after-el-paso-shooting/#294385f9ffbf
https://blog.cloudflare.com/terminating-service-for-8chan/

All competent observers agree that 8kun is no different than 8chan, and is a bad faith rebrand to try to evade bans.

https://www.cnet.com/news/controversial-site-8chan-tries-to-return-under-8kun-name/
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/zmj8y4/inside-the-war-to-kill-off-8chan-and-crush-qanon

Here is a live shot of 8KUN on your customer’s server showing how it looks identical to 8ch.net but with a new logo: https://i.imgur.com/IO286XB.png - Compare to 8ch: https://i.imgur.com/abX8tuY.jpg

8chan was known to host and promote content that is in violation of your acceptable use policy, this includes regular images and video of murder, including the 51 victims of the Christchurch massacre. Most notably 8chan violates on a daily basis your “Offensive Content” ban:

- Threats of physical harm, excessively violent material that incites violence, threatens violence, or contains harassing content or hate speech;
- Material that is defamatory or violates a person's privacy;
- Material that promotes terrorism or any kind of ethnic, social or religious discord;

Last week Alibaba refused to do business with 8chan: https://twitter.com/luica/status/1185723871229550592

Since then, 8chan's owner, Jim Watkins, and his son, Ron Watkins, have become more and more desperate to find a host. Chinese hosting companies Alibaba and Tencent both said "no" to 8chan under the name "8kun" as well.

They are now setup to use your network as their host to engage primarily in discussions that are in direct violation of your acceptable use policy: https://www.servers.com/legal/policies#5_acceptable_use_policy

I hope that you will not allow them to do this to you, as allowing them services has already indirectly caused real people to lose their lives around the world. 8chan is a breeding ground for extremism, and is reaching a public safety threat not far from that posed by ISIS or other terrorist groups. We urge you to stand against the type of “free speech” Jim Watkins and 8chan/8kun are offering. I hope you also consider carefully that members of the US congress have indicated they may pass a law that changes how Section 230 would apply to hate speech and to make tech companies liable. This legislation is coming. You have an opportunity to be on the right side of history with this issue. We hope you’ll take it.

If I do not get a response from you within 24 hours I will promptly contact your upstream provider to seek assistance.

Thank you for reading,
[CODE]
CEO: NICK DVAS  https://twitter.com/dvas He’s Russian
CEO EMAIL: nick@dvas.ru (CC HIM!)
EMAIL: ABUSE@SERVERS.COM

Domain in question: 8KUN.NET
IP in question: 62.113.112.43 via your customer VDSINA.RU

Dear Sir or Madam,

Please note that we have already contacted your downstream customer in control of this IP https://vdsina.ru via adbuse@vdsina.ru but they do not respond to emails as you can see here:

4.2.1 The user you are trying to contact is receiving mail at a rate that
4.2.1 prevents additional messages from being delivered. Please resend your
4.2.1 message at a later time.

In 2019, three terrorist manifestos were uploaded to 8chan. The terrorists in Christchurch, New Zealand, Poway, California, and El Paso, Texas, used 8chan to upload their manifestos. Between all three attacks, over 70 people died. Here is an archive of the ChristChurch massacre with the original post by the shooter Brenton Tarrant:  https://archive.st/archive/2019/3/8ch.net/7s0s/8ch.net/pol/res/12916717.html

WaPo reported that 8chan is an incubator for mass shooters: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/08/04/three-mass-shootings-this-year-began-with-hateful-screed-chan-its-founder-calls-it-terrorist-refuge-plain-sight/

As a result, 8chan was removed from many major American networks. It was deplatformed by Tucows, CloudFlare and Epik in August; and from Zare (UK) as "8kun" in October.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2019/08/05/tucows-drops-8chan-domain-registration-after-el-paso-shooting/#294385f9ffbf
https://blog.cloudflare.com/terminating-service-for-8chan/

All competent observers agree that 8kun is no different than 8chan, and is a bad faith rebrand to try to evade bans.

https://www.cnet.com/news/controversial-site-8chan-tries-to-return-under-8kun-name/
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/zmj8y4/inside-the-war-to-kill-off-8chan-and-crush-qanon

Here is a live shot of 8KUN on your customer’s server showing how it looks identical to 8ch.net but with a new logo: https://i.imgur.com/IO286XB.png - Compare to 8ch: https://i.imgur.com/abX8tuY.jpg

8chan was known to host and promote content that is in violation of your acceptable use policy, this includes regular images and video of murder, including the 51 victims of the Christchurch massacre. Most notably 8chan violates on a daily basis your “Offensive Content” ban:

- Threats of physical harm, excessively violent material that incites violence, threatens violence, or contains harassing content or hate speech;
- Material that is defamatory or violates a person's privacy;
- Material that promotes terrorism or any kind of ethnic, social or religious discord;

Last week Alibaba refused to do business with 8chan: https://twitter.com/luica/status/1185723871229550592

Since then, 8chan's owner, Jim Watkins, and his son, Ron Watkins, have become more and more desperate to find a host. Chinese hosting companies Alibaba and Tencent both said "no" to 8chan under the name "8kun" as well.

They are now setup to use your network as their host to engage primarily in discussions that are in direct violation of your acceptable use policy: https://www.servers.com/legal/policies#5_acceptable_use_policy

I hope that you will not allow them to do this to you, as allowing them services has already indirectly caused real people to lose their lives around the world. 8chan is a breeding ground for extremism, and is reaching a public safety threat not far from that posed by ISIS or other terrorist groups. We urge you to stand against the type of “free speech” Jim Watkins and 8chan/8kun are offering. I hope you also consider carefully that members of the US congress have indicated they may pass a law that changes how Section 230 would apply to hate speech and to make tech companies liable. This legislation is coming. You have an opportunity to be on the right side of history with this issue. We hope you’ll take it.

If I do not get a response from you within 24 hours I will promptly contact your upstream provider to seek assistance.

Thank you for reading,
[YOUR NAME]

Hotwheels is turning into Vordrak.
 
That pedophile furry sure is gloating about there not being a /pol/ board, While I would understand if they did not bring the use of "/pol/" back as a board name this is a website where you can create your own boards and nothing is going to stop the creation of another /pol/.

How desperate are these people for a victory.
 
That pedophile furry sure is gloating about there not being a /pol/ board, While I would understand if they did not bring the use of "/pol/" back as a board name this is a website where you can create your own boards and nothing is going to stop the creation of another /pol/.

How desperate are these people for a victory.
I can certainly see it happening no doubt. The question's more "when" than "if".
 
I can certainly see it happening no doubt. The question's more "when" than "if".
I think "who" might be an interesting question as well. I'm not super familiar with the structure of 8chan, etc. Is it first come first served for board names? Does the person who registered the board get to pick local mods? That alone could massively shape the direction of the board, even if there are alternatives available.
 
I think "who" might be an interesting question as well. I'm not super familiar with the structure of 8chan, etc. Is it first come first served for board names? Does the person who registered the board get to pick local mods? That alone could massively shape the direction of the board, even if there are alternatives available.
I think that's basically a 'yes' to all of that.

There has been a process over the past couple weeks to allow original 'board owners' on 8chan to claim their boards on 8kun. Apparently there were secrets that were given to the BOs at the time they created them that they were meant to save for a situation like this. I guess we'll just have to wait and see whether the ownership of /leftypol/ comes down to an insane bumrush when they open board creation back up..

Note that it wasn't always a case of 'you create it, you own it forever'- I'm pretty sure they always used to let unmaintained boards be claimed by community members, but I hate imageboards so don't really know for sure.

He thinks so himself.

In fairness, that was back when the 'Daily Stormer' were pretending to be wicked neo-Nazis, rather than Tim Pool tier edgy Trump fans. Maybe Brennan is just reacting badly to the recent tone taken by tsadik Andrew Aurenheimer.
 
I don't think they will import the /pol/ database. It has to be full of edgelord stuff like Saint Tarrant memes and everything else jurno's would love to cap. With it gone Jim can at least make the case to the hosting providers that he has done something to stop the manifesto posters.
 
"Not everything is QAnon snipers, potato-boy"

I believe Jim and HW are still neighbors. This whole thing can lead to some REALLY awkward elevator-time.
Are they? There was a document released that I think allegedly showed where [Brennan] had been living, that I recall [Brennan] freaking out about. He blamed that Mark guy from /v/ for it. I believe [Brennan] claimed that he had moved after that.
 
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