US Cloudflare: "Terminating Service for 8Chan"

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Terminating Service for 8Chan

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August 05, 2019 1:44AM


The mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio are horrific tragedies. In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as 8chan. Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a screed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart killing 20 people.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on 8chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand. The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on 8chan which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poway, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled “open letter” on 8chan. 8chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate.

8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

We do not take this decision lightly. Cloudflare is a network provider. In pursuit of our goal of helping build a better internet, we’ve considered it important to provide our security services broadly to make sure as many users as possible are secure, and thereby making cyberattacks less attractive — regardless of the content of those websites. Many of our customers run platforms of their own on top of our network. If our policies are more conservative than theirs it effectively undercuts their ability to run their services and set their own policies. We reluctantly tolerate content that we find reprehensible, but we draw the line at platforms that have demonstrated they directly inspire tragic events and are lawless by design. 8chan has crossed that line. It will therefore no longer be allowed to use our services.

What Will Happen Next

Unfortunately, we have seen this situation before and so we have a good sense of what will play out. Almost exactly two years ago we made the determination to kick another disgusting site off Cloudflare's network: the Daily Stormer. That caused a brief interruption in the site's operations but they quickly came back online using a Cloudflare competitor. That competitor at the time promoted as a feature the fact that they didn't respond to legal process. Today, the Daily Stormer is still available and still disgusting. They have bragged that they have more readers than ever. They are no longer Cloudflare's problem, but they remain the Internet's problem.

I have little doubt we'll see the same happen with 8chan. While removing 8chan from our network takes heat off of us, it does nothing to address why hateful sites fester online. It does nothing to address why mass shootings occur. It does nothing to address why portions of the population feel so disenchanted they turn to hate. In taking this action we've solved our own problem, but we haven't solved the Internet's.

In the two years since the Daily Stormer what we have done to try and solve the Internet’s deeper problem is engage with law enforcement and civil society organizations to try and find solutions. Among other things, that resulted in us cooperating around monitoring potential hate sites on our network and notifying law enforcement when there was content that contained an indication of potential violence. We will continue to work within the legal process to share information when we can to hopefully prevent horrific acts of violence. We believe this is our responsibility and, given Cloudflare's scale and reach, we are hopeful we will continue to make progress toward solving the deeper problem.

Rule of Law

We continue to feel incredibly uncomfortable about playing the role of content arbiter and do not plan to exercise it often. Some have wrongly speculated this is due to some conception of the United States' First Amendment. That is incorrect. First, we are a private company and not bound by the First Amendment. Second, the vast majority of our customers, and more than 50% of our revenue, comes from outside the United States where the First Amendment and similarly libertarian freedom of speech protections do not apply. The only relevance of the First Amendment in this case and others is that it allows us to choose who we do and do not do business with; it does not obligate us to do business with everyone.

Instead our concern has centered around another much more universal idea: the Rule of Law. The Rule of Law requires policies be transparent and consistent. While it has been articulated as a framework for how governments ensure their legitimacy, we have used it as a touchstone when we think about our own policies.

We have been successful because we have a very effective technological solution that provides security, performance, and reliability in an affordable and easy-to-use way. As a result of that, a huge portion of the Internet now sits behind our network. 10% of the top million, 17% of the top 100,000, and 19% of the top 10,000 Internet properties use us today. 10% of the Fortune 1,000 are paying Cloudflare customers.

Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it. Questions around content are real societal issues that need politically legitimate solutions. We will continue to engage with lawmakers around the world as they set the boundaries of what is acceptable in their countries through due process of law. And we will comply with those boundaries when and where they are set.

Europe, for example, has taken a lead in this area. As we've seen governments there attempt to address hate and terror content online, there is recognition that different obligations should be placed on companies that organize and promote content — like Facebook and YouTube — rather than those that are mere conduits for that content. Conduits, like Cloudflare, are not visible to users and therefore cannot be transparent and consistent about their policies.
The unresolved question is how should the law deal with platforms that ignore or actively thwart the Rule of Law? That's closer to the situation we have seen with the Daily Stormer and 8chan. They are lawless platforms. In cases like these, where platforms have been designed to be lawless and unmoderated, and where the platforms have demonstrated their ability to cause real harm, the law may need additional remedies. We and other technology companies need to work with policy makers in order to help them understand the problem and define these remedies. And, in some cases, it may mean moving enforcement mechanisms further down the technical stack.

Our Obligation

Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. At some level firing 8chan as a customer is easy. They are uniquely lawless and that lawlessness has contributed to multiple horrific tragedies. Enough is enough.

What's hard is defining the policy that we can enforce transparently and consistently going forward. We, and other technology companies like us that enable the great parts of the Internet, have an obligation to help propose solutions to deal with the parts we're not proud of. That's our obligation and we're committed to it.

Unfortunately the action we take today won’t fix hate online. It will almost certainly not even remove 8chan from the Internet. But it is the right thing to do. Hate online is a real issue. Here are some organizations that have active work to help address it:
Our whole Cloudflare team’s thoughts are with the families grieving in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio this evening.
 
I think where you lost a lot of people here was with that bit where you were suggesting you'd help the plaintiffs sue Jim Watkins.
That and WNYC is the limousine liberal's Never Trumper's squawk box as the focus on Gamer Gate and Q shows. Also, nice revisionism there, very Stalinesque. 8chan became popular only because of Gamer Gate. If it wasn't for the Zoe Post and subsequent fallout on 4chan you'd still be in Brooklyn posting on Wizardchan.

But, whatever. Best of luck to you in your future endeavors.
 
well, technically "8kun" is a different name. Also, sounds like he wasn't acting in good faith. He met with Tom Ridel of NT Tech to talk about all this. Meanwhile as to be expected he was covertly recording the whole thing. There was an offer to change the name but he refused to sign the paper so changing to 8kun seems like more than they had to do. Besides, I just don't buy that @copypaste was going to give in no matter what happened.

He was talking about how "other imageboards are fine" then starts talking about how Mark Mann paid the Halle shooter x amount of BTC? Now there are these rumors that a Jewish guy basically commissioned a synagogue shooting. Sheesh, and apparently according to the videos where they're hangjng out years back and he's talking about how much he loves /pol/ and would never take it down they seem to be friends. Then Fred makes sure to screencap IRC chats and private messages with Mark.

I initially was understanding. I mean, fuck, nobody wants an outrage mob after them. Disassociating yourself is one thing, but he's made it clear this is personal. Also keeps changing his reason for wanting to shut it down. It's domestic terrorists, then no actually I don't think the Nazis will be back he says, but the Qboomers are tooooo dangerous. Who was it, not @L33TGUY this time but some sixxis or something account. That account shared a montage video where he's hanging with Mark. This guy was sperging out about how DANGEROUS Q boomers are.

As someone pointed out apparently like 1 out of 5 kids under 12 will be groomed online and over half of them will be exploited on a Zuckerberg owned platform (FB, IG, WhatsApp). I was reading the article and there are around 900 (reported and convicted) cases in a year at FB alone and that's only a little over 1/3 of the reported cases. So we're talking dozens per week, an average of about 2 or 3 kids per day being groomed online and over half from Zuckerberg. 2-3 cases per day eventually get convicted, but no way of telling how many more there are.

So what do we do? Should we bring Mark Zuckerberg in to Congress to talk about his work "radicalizing pedophiles?" Fred says Jim was entirely incompetent, and maybe that's so but he at least got rid of the pedo boards that Fred considered a service to the "disadvantaged minority" that are pedos lol. So yeah, 4 domestic terrorist, 4 mass shootings, that is definitely a tragedy. Why are we ignoring the fact that way more kids are getting exploited online than adults, teens or kids getting shot by wignats?

The sixxis like many of the anti-Q folks seems as obsessed as the Q boomers themselves. None of them seem to have any answer (apart from maybe "whataboutism") for why a couple hundred victims is worth than thousands of kids' innocence stolen. Hashtag priorities I guess?

Another thing... if you are there Fred? I follow your Twitter. I see a lot of people sharing the picture of you with the fake 3-d printed Q and your made up story about "the security cameras not working. Or the screencap where you defend "child model" boards. Then there's the pictures of you with The Goldwater who you have said in some press sources may have contributed to radicalization of domestic terrorists by making them think Jim bought into their tin foil theories.

Why did you play a part in the radicalization of boomers by falsifying evidence? Also why did you take part in the radicalization of domestic terrorists by appearing in print or videos of The Goldwater multiple times as recently as last Summer. Also do you think the Natzees will be back as you've said in some cases or do you believe, as you've said elsewhere, that they've moved on to places like Telegram and won't be back? Also, if you have admitted to faking parts of the Al Jazeera documentary, admitted to lying about the 3-d printed Q, admitted in a Medium post that you lied about Null so why should anyone believe you about anything?

yeah, I'll admit, I looked up to you for years and even after you left 8chan and started railing against Q and Jim I completely understood because who wants journalists stalking you... but lil buddy, now you're the one reaching out to journalists. You're the one turning down some journalists if they don't have a large enough platform anyway. Don't get me wrong, you're certainly fooling some people. You can do that some of the time. Anyone can, but you sure won't fool everybody any of the time.

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Tomorrow morning, apparently.
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EDIT: PA-wheels is on it!
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Sure would be a shame if someone started sending that screenshot @Yotsubaaa put up of him saying "nah, CP stays up". Would be a fucking shame if that blew back in his face and he gets labeled as a paedo.
Horseshit, him going on a crusade is what is bringing attention to him. All he had to do with this autistic lawsuit was call the lawyer and say "not part of it for years" and that was that. He would absolutely not stop if Jim renamed it.
 
Well today is the day it seems?



edit:
Oh well
 

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8kun is up
They seem to have disclaimers most likely to avoid being blamed in case of any mass shooting
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Clearnet version is apparently up. Heres what the top boards are now, it should also be noted Lokinet is a zeronet fork meaning there could be a possibility of getting your personal info leaked
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And finally here are the new rules
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if it isn't accessible its most likely due to high traffic
 
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Well today is the day it seems?


Countdown to
I never thought I would be celebrating this loading, but the crippled pedo and his collaboration with the traditional enemies of the truth against the freedom to engage in political speech have made it so.
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At least now they're legally fireproof. Disclaimer: your crazy is not our fault.
 

I somehow doubt he is just going to go to sleep. I think that tweet is just a ruse to give cover while he works on DoSing the db or spamming it with cp/fedposts. No way someone that obsessed would sleep today.
 

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I somehow doubt he is just going to go to sleep and not work on DDoSing the db or spam it with cp/fedposts.
What an inbred feeb. How many of those shooter manifestos survived even 15 minutes? It took Facebook more than 30 minutes to take down the Tarrant Massacre video, and their funds and staff are bottomless. He sounds like a grifter trying to glom onto that sweet, sweet leftwoke cash flow.
 
It's not that I ever really liked Frederick that much; but it's still amazing and sad to see how quickly he threw the car into reverse and is so blatantly and poorly attempting to save his own skin. At the first sign of push back the dude throws all his friends under the bus and starts handing out information to fuck his former friends over and cause them problems. And he's not even doing it behind closed doors. He's parading it around so that everyone can see that he's not the bad guy. This guy has zero self-awareness.

He's just a piece of shit. Nobody is going respect him. They'll use him for as long as they can and then smash him to bits anyway. If he thinks that lawyer was playing nice by withholding legal action against him so long as he helps, Frederick is in for a rude awakening when the lawyer milks him dry.

And if he wasn't a cripple people probably wouldn't have let him get nearly as far as he did. He rode the pity train all the way to "success".
 
well, technically "8kun" is a different name. Also, sounds like he wasn't acting in good faith. He met with Tom Ridel of NT Tech to talk about all this.

He's desperately trying to maintain the illusion that he's actually reasonable and not just mindlessly seeking vengeance no matter what.

At the first sign of push back the dude throws all his friends under the bus and starts handing out information to fuck his former friends over and cause them problems. And he's not even doing it behind closed doors.

He was doing that way before anyone threatened to sue him.
 
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