Vinesauce

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Sort of newbie here. Only watched Vinesauce for about 2 years. After reading the entire thread I haven't really seen much written about Potato (aka Darren). I've only watched a handful of streams and I don't know his background. How come he wasn't part of the Vinesauce is Hope stream?
If everyone else on the team have skeletons in their closet, surely he does too. I don't know why but something about him just irks me.
 
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Sort of newbie here. Only watched Vinesauce for about 2 years. After reading the entire thread I haven't really seen much written about Potato (aka Darren). I've only watched a handful of streams and I don't know his background. How come he wasn't part of the Vinesauce is Hope stream?
If everyone else on the team have skeletons in their closet, surely he does too. I don't know why but something about him just irks me.
for lack of a better description, Darren has that real shitposter feel to him, I'm guessing that's why it's really hard to learn anything about him.
 
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Sort of newbie here. Only watched Vinesauce for about 2 years. After reading the entire thread I haven't really seen much written about Potato (aka Darren). I've only watched a handful of streams and I don't know his background. How come he wasn't part of the Vinesauce is Hope stream?
While I've heard he didn't want to be involved in it, I don't blame anyone for bowing out of the charity stream considering how it keeps getting bigger each year.
You have more stream prep work, more social media promotion, more volunteers, that whole thing with the ARG game that got a little messy and caused some stress with people trying to manage it, the art contest stuff etc. With Variety is Hope, it just adds extra work on top of that for those that choose to also be involved.

Im not saying it's a bad thing to attract more attention and help raise money for pediatric cancer, there's just a lot of energy and time that goes into it now.
 
While I've heard he didn't want to be involved in it, I don't blame anyone for bowing out of the charity stream considering how it keeps getting bigger each year.
You have more stream prep work, more social media promotion, more volunteers, that whole thing with the ARG game that got a little messy and caused some stress with people trying to manage it, the art contest stuff etc. With Variety is Hope, it just adds extra work on top of that for those that choose to also be involved.

Im not saying it's a bad thing to attract more attention and help raise money for pediatric cancer, there's just a lot of energy and time that goes into it now.

Agreed. It's incredibly time consuming to set up and run those charity streams, and that's not to mention the issues with the incentives themselves. Rev did that 24 hour Boat-o-Cross stream a few years back, and I can only imagine how fucking exhausting that must've been. Joel and Vinny routinely promise incentives that they never do (often facecam streams for Joel and pretty much anything involving anime for Vinny) simply because those are the things fans will pay to see, and they get bombarded with complaints because of their flakiness.

And honestly, as nicely as it can be said, Darren isn't exactly rolling in viewers, anyway. If memory serves, Darren is the least followed Vinesauce member on Twitch, and I'm willing to bet his general social media following is about the same. If anyone has a valid justification for not participating in the charity streams, it's him - it would be a wonder if he had enough viewers to contribute a sizable portion, anyway. I wouldn't read very much into his exclusion; it just seems to me that the amount he could potentially contribute is so negligible, it's not worth it for him or the charity as a whole to put all that planning and effort in, anyway.
 
Joel has a habit of promising streams and then not streaming. What's up with that? Vinny is much more responsible and keeps his word.

Vinny actually adheres to some degree of a "schedule" - you always know he's going to stream on Sundays, and then most other days he tends to stream in the evening, so it's a safe bet that you'll catch him on those days. Joel, however, streams whenever the hell he wants, which I both admire and hate. He has no schedule, except that he usually streams really late on EST, which means his commitments are less locked-in. It's way easier for him to flake on a stream if he so desires. It's kind of annoying, but that's the freedom he's earned by taking up a career as a streamer, so I can't blame him.
 
I think he makes some promises and loses interest in them. Some are just flat unlikely to happen, like the grilling stream.

A good analogy of Vinny and Joel:

Vinny is the lawful-neutral college graduate with a 3.8-4.0 gpa who never misses class and takes things seriously. While not perfect, he adheres to a tight schedule and plans/announces breaks in advance. He gets upset when he streams past 4am because it messes up his rigorous schedule. The status quo controls him, however, and places a burden on his back.

Joel is chaotic-neutral and is the kind of person probably dropped out of high school and showed up when he felt like it. He occasionally has moments of brilliance but gets easily side-tracked and discouraged. He can't mess up a schedule because he doesn't have one, but he expresses regret when he does. Basically a C+ student who is capable of being A+ if he just applied himself.
 
Vinny actually adheres to some degree of a "schedule" - you always know he's going to stream on Sundays, and then most other days he tends to stream in the evening, so it's a safe bet that you'll catch him on those days. Joel, however, streams whenever the hell he wants, which I both admire and hate.


this is kinda like a rant. Vinny just happened to be smart enough to get other people to do the YouTube highlights and uploads; he only has to take care of streams and his music (also done with other people involved) which allows him to follow some sort of schedule. Joel is enough of a dumbass perfectionist to do his own highlights, edit and upload his full streams (which he has to, because copyrighted music in certain countries and stuff) and deal with not only one, but two music projects, so he is constantly tired.
So yeah, streaming whenever he feels like seems to be a wise decision and i can't blame him
 
A good analogy of Vinny and Joel:

Vinny is the lawful-neutral college graduate with a 3.8-4.0 gpa who never misses class and takes things seriously. While not perfect, he adheres to a tight schedule and plans/announces breaks in advance. He gets upset when he streams past 4am because it messes up his rigorous schedule. The status quo controls him, however, and places a burden on his back.

Joel is chaotic-neutral and is the kind of person probably dropped out of high school and showed up when he felt like it. He occasionally has moments of brilliance but gets easily side-tracked and discouraged. He can't mess up a schedule because he doesn't have one, but he expresses regret when he does. Basically a C+ student who is capable of being A+ if he just applied himself.
I think a good analogy for the two is that Vinny is a Joe Rogan type of guy and Joel is a Dick Show kind of guy. someone please make Joel and Dick Masterson crossover happen. I could have sworn that Dick said that he listens to metal at one point
 
AAA Software, the developers behind Data Mutations, wrote an article complaining about how streamers like Vinesauce playing their games aren't translating into more sales. (Archive)
The article is... something special.
Likewise, other game developers such as Nathalie Lawhead have shared their experiences with Vinesauce playing their games. (Archive)
The quoted tweet. (Archive)

Recap: Weird game makers are mad that their "pay what you want" games aren't making them money and instead are blaming streamers like Vinesauce
 
AAA Software, the developers behind Data Mutations, wrote an article complaining about how streamers like Vinesauce playing their games aren't translating into more sales. (Archive)
The article is... something special.
Likewise, other game developers such as Nathalie Lawhead have shared their experiences with Vinesauce playing their games. (Archive)
The quoted tweet. (Archive)

Recap: Weird game makers are mad that their "pay what you want" games aren't making them money and instead are blaming streamers like Vinesauce

From the article:

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I hate a few things about this:

1) Referring to Vinny as just "Vinesauce." I know that's the name he uses, but it's fucking weird - it takes two seconds worth of research to see that most people call him Vinny.

2) Referring to Vinny as a "let's player." He's literally never done anything except stream - I think it's a safe bet to say that 95% of all of his content originates from his streams.

3) Calling them "let's players." It just looks weird; most everyone I've seen, myself included, uses the term as a proper noun. So with capitals. Making it lowercase just makes no sense. (Not a Vinesauce-related complaint, but I digress.)

4) The fact that whoever wrote this apparently doesn't even know about the existence of Twitch and Vinny's pretty high status on it. Did they bother researching any of this information whatsoever?

I do agree that it would be nice if there were some kind of protections in place for indie devs whose games become the subject of popular videos, but going after Vinny as if he's the root of the problem seems weird to me. I know he's simply one example, but why attack him as a streamer and not the gigantic corporation backing his career? They're the ones who need to work at getting indie devs the notice and monetary compensation they deserve, not the damn streamers.
 
AAA Software, the developers behind Data Mutations, wrote an article complaining about how streamers like Vinesauce playing their games aren't translating into more sales. (Archive)
The article is... something special.
Likewise, other game developers such as Nathalie Lawhead have shared their experiences with Vinesauce playing their games. (Archive)
The quoted tweet. (Archive)

Recap: Weird game makers are mad that their "pay what you want" games aren't making them money and instead are blaming streamers like Vinesauce
Both Lawhead and her journo friend Liz Ryerson (who made a tweet calling out Vinesauce in response to the article) are some real special cases, I'll tell you what.

I dont recommend giving them or any of the folks agreeing with them any attention. Even if people are being civil in the discussion they are the types that will
turn words around to fuel the victim narrative. The person who wrote the article mentioned they were simply using Vinesauce as an example, but it's the worst
example they could've used. Also, using a Youtube money calculator without considering all the various ways a video can lose monetization and that Youtube
isn't a sustainable way to earn money, is stupidity.

As for the reactions to their games, they are completely ignorant to the process of how these games end up on sunday streams. They frame it as if Vinny just
seeks out these games to the mock them, instead of the reality that tons of stuff is sent to him often without context or where these things came from.
People do send suggestions with links, and some of those games aren't voluntary purchases. If he decides something is worth streaming, he isn't against buying it.

Anyways, all this goes to show that once again these people never leave their bubble and are completely out of touch with the things they write about.
 
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AAA Software, the developers behind Data Mutations, wrote an article complaining about how streamers like Vinesauce playing their games aren't translating into more sales. (Archive)
The article is... something special.
Likewise, other game developers such as Nathalie Lawhead have shared their experiences with Vinesauce playing their games. (Archive)
The quoted tweet. (Archive)

Recap: Weird game makers are mad that their "pay what you want" games aren't making them money and instead are blaming streamers like Vinesauce
So this is kinda interesting to me, specifically Nathalie Lawhead's perspective. Nathalie is saying that, she dislikes the culture that surrounds the type of games she and others make veering more into the "haha weird dev on drugs" type of response as opposed to a neutral or positive take. She likens Vinny's Sunday streams and the language around them (Sunday trash, Sunday garbage etc) and Vinny's response to the games he plays as a "toxic" environment. She's also pissed that Vinny playing the games doesn't actually create any kind of download increase or significant revenue spike, be it traffic, social, or monetary.

On one hand, I can see why she thinks this is a bad thing. Weird games can be really cool, they can ask seemingly mundane questions in really interesting ways because of how they have control of the context and the visual space in which they say it. Stuff like that is cool and important and I'm certainly not dissing it. However... Lawhead's site looks like this. Lawhead primarily makes games that evoke a "what the fuck" response just based on how they're framed, visualized and the content within them. You make an app that's only job is to scream at you at random, and you feel offended when people respond to that by saying "what the fuck?" come on Nathalie. Your site's CSS wobbles from side to side and is awash with garish colors. The first thing you see is gifs screaming at you in text. Your brand, your creative aesthetic is outlandish weird shit. You cannot expect most people to look at it as any kind of schlock shock humor or being weird for the sake of weird.

These games have a place, they have an audience, and they have people who will see a real significant impact from them. That is not the vast majority of people. You are not making games for a mass market or the average person. Your entire aesthetic echoes that sentiment. Expecting people who are casually watching your game be played by a personality they like, interacting with it via a chatroom that has its own culture about these types of games is kind of a stretch. Expecting random people coming to play your game on the show floor to treat it with respect instead of like a weird kooky funny game when the game is marketed, designed and explicitly made to look like this. Most people associate the nihilistic haha cartoon style with not giving a fuck, hence the nihilism. Nathalie even understands this and writes about it in the article she linked in her tweets.

The general consumer populace of games already doesn't have much of an appreciation for art games. This is an unfortunate reality to do with the market. Nathalie specifically is aware that she is carving a niche and that her games aren't likely to be well received by people outside of that niche. Blaming Vinny for that isn't going to get her anywhere unfortunately. If anything, it's going to fuck her rep up from the rabid Vinesauce fans that want to huff Vinny's nutsack until they die. You know, the real weird ones.

As both the posts above me point out, it seems like both these people are using Vinny as a scapegoat without even doing their due diligence or basic research (what a surprise) before making outlandish claims. For starters, nobody calls Vinny "Vinesauce" within the community. Even at the conventions he go to, he's usually listed as "Vinny (Vinesauce)" and the like.

This speaks to me as an attempt at a punching up scenario but it falls hopelessly flat and is likely to backfire, but more likely to be outright ignored. It speaks to the sheer ignorance of these people that they use a fucking "youtube revenue calculator" as if those things are anywhere near accurate. Anyone with even a small monetized channel will tell you that some clicks are considered "viable" and others aren't, likely because of adblockers etc etc. Without the proper metrics on the page, there's no reasonable way to assume a profit per video, it's just stupid.

I don't dislike Nathalie, I think Nathalie's games absolutely have a place in the world and there are people that will genuinely enjoy them for what they are. They're niche games, specifically designed to be niche in many ways. Being niche doesn't translate well to the general public. Nathalie knows this, and is probably airing frustration about the fact her games aren't doing anything magical to change it. But that's just the way it goes when your webpage is covered in garish colors, shakes from side to side and screams at you. That's your niche, you made it, it's not for everyone.

ETA: I'm not sure if I read correctly or not, but it seemed like Nathalie was saying that she'd gotten hatemail of some form after Vin streamed one of her games. If that's the case, I have to wonder what kind of moron thinks that's a good idea and why they acted on it. But to be fair, there are always crazies of some kind in any community. See above about the Vinesauce fans wanting to huff Vinny's scrote.
 
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okay, an example of an artsy but weird as all fuck game is Plug and Play. a ton on generic youtube guys played it, no one actually praised it but said how much of a mindfuck it is. their audiences found something appealing about it, went and downloaded it.
people are not that stupid to let their opinions be affected by a streamer/youtuber's opinion wether a game is good or bad (see the whole death stranding situation, as proof. vinny is like "eh", and everyone wanted him to love the game? idk). is interesting to see how this dev's mindset works. "my game isn't the problem, the vinesauce man's opinion is the problem"
 
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