Waypoint and the Waypoint Forums - NeoGAF's Autistic Inbred Cousin and Shitty Game Site

[AnOminous]

There's really no reason to not send copies to journalists and websites, though.

There is if they're Jason Schreier or Patrick Klepek or Waypoint or anything remotely Gawker-related. Why would you give anything to outright enemies to keep them in business?

 

[Judge Dredd]

That said, the tighter a company is with review copies - the more likely the game is bad. Fallout 76 had nearly 0 review copies out in the wild before launch, as an example.

That used to be the case. Now that isn't really true.

Doom 2016 was a game that didn't give out review copies and people like that. The press refused to acknowledge that Kingdom Come Deliverance even existed. Resident Evil 2 Remake, game journalists complained that they couldn't go shopping and show off their gay haircut. I've not heard much about Borderlands 3, but I do know Kotaku was salty and bashed the game repeatedly for not giving them review copies.

In contrast, look at how many AAA games gave out review copies and got shilled by the press despite being shit. Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3 spring to mind, but I'm sure there are newer examples.

I know it's not always true. Good games sometimes have review copies, some bad games don't give review copies. But holding back review copies isn't a guarantee that the game is shit and the publisher is trying to keep a lid on it.

There is if they're Jason Schreier or Patrick Klepek or Waypoint or anything remotely Gawker-related. Why would you give anything to outright enemies to keep them in business?

If they're going to smear you anyway, might as well make an extra sale.

 

[AnOminous]

I've not heard much about Borderlands 3, but I do know Kotaku was salty and bashed the game repeatedly for not giving them review copies.

Games journalists are viewed as absolute garbage even by the purveyors of wokeshit like Borderlands.

 

[FireGod365]

What are some people online that don't work for Waypoint but are "Waypoint adjacent?"

 

[Tanner Glass]

Doom 2016 was a game that didn't give out review copies and people like that. The press refused to acknowledge that Kingdom Come Deliverance even existed. Resident Evil 2 Remake, game journalists complained that they couldn't go shopping and show off their gay haircut. I've not heard much about Borderlands 3, but I do know Kotaku was salty and bashed the game repeatedly for not giving them review copies.

In contrast, look at how many AAA games gave out review copies and got shilled by the press despite being shit. Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3 spring to mind, but I'm sure there are newer examples.

I know it's not always true. Good games sometimes have review copies, some bad games don't give review copies. But holding back review copies isn't a guarantee that the game is shit and the publisher is trying to keep a lid on it.


If they're going to smear you anyway, might as well make an extra sale.

Doom 2016 actually did have review copies, though - but just for the Multiplayer (which sucks and was bad). People (journalists included) played what was available to them (the multiplayer beta) and suggested that what they played was infact bad and unfun, which it was.

Then they shipped Doom 2016 which was super successful, but only on the back of it's really good single player and then Bethesda went on to use that to justify their stance of "we aren't going to send out review copies for games" - which they used to sneak out Fallout 76; a literal pile of shit disguised as a video game. It wasn't until they were shit on for years, on top of the absolute savaging they got for Fallout 76, that they were forced to reverse course.

There is no 100% rule of thumb, but if a game is close to release the company isn't showing it off/making it even partially accessible - they're hiding something. In 2019, however, they're never hiding anything good.

 

[ChevroletBlackboard]

Bethesda also stopped doing review copies because of their lack of skill at quality control meaning all of their Day 1 reviews usually included the stipulation "wait at a least a month for the game to be patched we had a lot of rough glitches."

 

[Judge Dredd]

What are some people online that don't work for Waypoint but are "Waypoint adjacent?"

The Giant Bomb staff. Alex Navarro who was patient zero for Patrick infecting them with social justice. Giant Bomb as a whole is (or was, I've not checked in a while) dying a slow death due to insufferable diversity hires and the original staff becoming jaded old men with a social justice addiction.

Doom 2016 actually did have review copies, though - but just for the Multiplayer (which sucks and was bad). People (journalists included) played what was available to them (the multiplayer beta) and suggested that what they played was infact bad and unfun, which it was.

You mean the multiplayer Beta? Yes, it was bad.

But I think a greater justification was the way Polygon played the game like a drunk with only 1 hand.

And complained in their written review that having to replay levels to get any collectibles they missed was a bad thing.

It could be argued that it was done out for revenge due to the lack of review copies, but once you add in all the other games that did well despite the wailing of games press and games that the press shit on just for clicks (Resident Evil 2 Remake, Kingdom Come Deliverance, Senran Kagura, A Hat In Time, Cuphead, Ion Fury, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some), I think there's too much history to give journalists the benefit of the doubt.

I think they don't go far enough. I'd love for EA, Ubisoft, and other AAA companies to deny them entry to preview events. Someone from Kotaku turns up, tell them that CP distributors are not welcome. Polygon or Waypoint show up, tell them that this is an event for the games press, not political bloggers.

I think a publisher denying them review copies means that they have their finger on the pulse of the games industry enough to know that the press aren't worth bothering with.

But if I've not convinced you, that's ok. Though I'll make one prediction. Atlus, Devolver, and Xseed are going to stop sending review copies to journalists within the next year or 2, if they haven't already. The games press hate these companies for various reasons. They will realize that sooner or later and decide they aren't worth bothering with.

 

[Screw Danlon]

There's really no reason to not send copies to journalists and websites, though. I find that Youtubers/Streamers are willing to shill just as much as any journalist, sometimes even more so.

That said, the tighter a company is with review copies - the more likely the game is bad. Fallout 76 had nearly 0 review copies out in the wild before launch, as an example.

Who cares, though? The good thing about watching someone play 1-3 hours of a game is that it usually gives you enough time to see for yourself whether it’s good enough to keep your attention. (Remember how games reviewers used to say their job was to inform consumers so they could spend their money wisely?)

Frankly, I’ve bought more games due to watching people play and wanting to do something different than they did than i have off of every recommendation and review combined.

Beyond that, then, it’s just finding a voice you like or someone whose patter you find interesting. It’s just ironic frosting on a schaedenfreude cake that many of the “journalists” who fought for this stuff are the ones who are now being obsoleted by it.

 

[Tanner Glass]

Who cares, though? The good thing about watching someone play 1-3 hours of a game is that it usually gives you enough time to see for yourself whether it’s good enough to keep your attention. (Remember how games reviewers used to say their job was to inform consumers so they could spend their money wisely?)

Frankly, I’ve bought more games due to watching people play and wanting to do something different than they did than i have off of every recommendation and review combined.

Beyond that, then, it’s just finding a voice you like or someone whose patter you find interesting. It’s just ironic frosting on a schaedenfreude cake that many of the “journalists” who fought for this stuff are the ones who are now being obsoleted by it.

I really want to disagree, but considering what a pile of garbage most of the "journalists" are - I can't.

That said - there's a place for real actual journalists who give a shit - because without them it just becomes the realm of "influencers" and "streamers" who the corporate entities are able to exert a much higher degree of control over. There's a lot of shady shit around game companies "insider" programs (or streamer affiliate programs) which means streamers and the like are less likely to come out and say a game is bad than an actual reviewer would.

The Giant Bomb staff. Alex Navarro who was patient zero for Patrick infecting them with social justice. Giant Bomb as a whole is (or was, I've not checked in a while) dying a slow death due to insufferable diversity hires and the original staff becoming jaded old men with a social justice addiction.

Giantbomb's death wasn't slow - it pretty much died the instant Ryan Davis (one of the cofounders and likely the man who gave the least amount of fucks about what anyone thought about him) did.

But if I've not convinced you, that's ok. Though I'll make one prediction. Atlus, Devolver, and Xseed are going to stop sending review copies to journalists within the next year or 2, if they haven't already. The games press hate these companies for various reasons. They will realize that sooner or later and decide they aren't worth bothering with.

Even if game companies hate journalists, they still like their audience(s) and will still reach out for that reason alone. Using the aforementioned Giantbomb as an example - Atlus has been very good to GB over the years (including several in-house visits, sneak peeks, demos, etc) because Persona 4 found an extra foothold through GB's audience (via the Let's Play that Jeff and Vinny did). I don't see them stopping that anytime in the future, unless Atlus does something unbelievably ridiculous.

Although, considering all of the drama surrounding most video games sites - if they all fail due to profitability issues in the next few years, it ultimately won't matter. Waypoint already folded up, Kotaku is probably soon and so on. The only site I can see suriving long term is Giantbomb, just because they run pretty lean and have corporate backing - but I don't see it surviving without Gerstmann and who know how many more years of this he has in him.

 

[Judge Dredd]

That said - there's a place for real actual journalists who give a shit - because without them it just becomes the realm of "influencers" and "streamers" who the corporate entities are able to exert a much higher degree of control over. There's a lot of shady shit around game companies "insider" programs (or streamer affiliate programs) which means streamers and the like are less likely to come out and say a game is bad than an actual reviewer would.

I agree. The problem is the games press has decided that is actual journalists should be shunned and destroyed. Look at Narwitz. Did actual journalism, and was burned for it as other sites stole the story and ran it as their own, or simply refused to talk about it because Narwitz is not an approved source.

Giantbomb's death wasn't slow - it pretty much died the instant Ryan Davis (one of the cofounders and likely the man who gave the least amount of fucks about what anyone thought about him) did.

There was a number of things that led to their death imo. Being bought by CBS, hiring Patrick Klepeck, Vinny moving away, them going full social justice. I think Ryan's death was the biggest cause, but far from the only one.

Even if game companies hate journalists, they still like their audience(s) and will still reach out for that reason alone. Using the aforementioned Giantbomb as an example - Atlus has been very good to GB over the years (including several in-house visits, sneak peeks, demos, etc) because Persona 4 found an extra foothold through GB's audience (via the Let's Play that Jeff and Vinny did). I don't see them stopping that anytime in the future, unless Atlus does something unbelievably ridiculous.

Again, I agree. Especially with Atlus staying friends with Giant Bomb. It's other sites they might cut off.

I'm mainly thinking about the "leaks" to ResetEra and the organized hate mobs on Twitter. You don't need to go full Alex Jones to think it's their "verified journalists" are leaking info to ResetEra to stir up a "grassroots" hate mob that they can then report on it. Even if that's not happening, having the press shit on their games for not including the right pronouns or pandering to their Tumblr head-canon will piss them off eventually.

Devolver was loved by the press until they published Metal Wolf Chaos. They website "mech america great again" triggered them. I think Devolver picking up the game because of a YouTube video added extra sting to it. If you search Waypoint for "Devolver", you can see mostly positive articles until somewhere around 2017, then it's mostly negative, accusing their games of racism or complaining about their press conferences.

Xseed wouldn't censor anime titty games.

 

[ChevroletBlackboard]

What's this about Kotaku dying?

 

[Tanner Glass]

What's this about Kotaku dying?

Nothing expressly, although the entire video game journalism market is dying a horrible death. There have been a few collapses and near collapses through the year.

Kotaku in particular, though, was sold in a fire sale of Gawker Media when Hulk Hogan destroyed that company so it's unlikely that the new company (Univision) will be trying to breathe any new life into it and it will die a slow death eventually (See also - Verizon acquires Tumblr).

EDIT :

Looks like Christmas may have come early.

 

[Quixotic Man]

What's this about Kotaku dying?

Kotaku and the rest of former Gawker got acquired by some venture capital group. Site could only attract horrible annoying ads. Kotaku writers pen article decrying the ads. New buyers go "write about fucking video games" and removes the article. Staff refuses. Now it looks like the new buyers might have just cleaned house.

 

[AnOminous]

Kotaku and the rest of former Gawker got acquired by some venture capital group. Site could only attract horrible annoying ads. Kotaku writers pen article decrying the ads. New buyers go "write about fucking video games" and removes the article. Staff refuses. Now it looks like the new buyers might have just cleaned house.

The useless staff did more than that. They actually urged readers to harass their bosses to get rid of the ads.

Almost like goobergrapers used to harass advertisers to dump Gawker sites. Except this time the jerkoffs doing this to them are their own employees.

Apparently pink slips went around because they'd finally crossed the line.

 

[CheezzyMach]

Kotaku and the rest of former Gawker got acquired by some venture capital group. Site could only attract horrible annoying ads. Kotaku writers pen article decrying the ads. New buyers go "write about fucking video games" and removes the article. Staff refuses. Now it looks like the new buyers might have just cleaned house.

How I wish Disney would do this to the brands it owns.

 

[GloryBoy]

Some tweets from staff:

Jason Schreier on Twitter

“I don't know what's going to happen next, but to everyone who has read and supported our work at Kotaku over the years, thank you ❤️”

twitter.com

Gita Jackson, Mrs. Dr. Caspar Darling on Twitter

“kotaku forever”

twitter.com

GMG Union on Twitter

“Earlier today, @JimSpanfeller, CEO of G/O Media, fired our colleague and longtime Deadspin Deputy Editor Barry Petchesky. This will not stand. We will have updates soon.”

twitter.com

Barry Petchesky on Twitter

“Hi! I’ve just been fired from Deadspin for not sticking to sports.”

twitter.com

Honestly, how retarded can they be? Gawker and its associate sites have failed to turn a profit for the longest time, at best they've managed to make an insignificant net that, suffice it to say, has not pleased the higher-ups one bit. They're perfectly aware of this, of course. But that hasn't stopped them. Getting payed $85,000 a year to write amateur-ish clickbait in a fancy office in NYC was simply not enough for them. They just HAD to unionize and demand MORE money, MORE days off, BETTER severance, even though they were 100% aware that the company they were working for ISN'T MAKING ANY MONEY. And then on top of all of that, when a new company steps in and makes an attempt to turn the ship around, the moronic employees decide to just sink the whole damn thing instead.

"WhY aRe YoU MaKiNg Me WrItE aBoUt sPoRtS oN tHe SpOrTs WeBsItE i WaNt To WrIte AbOuT BlUmPf"
"WhY aM i NoT mAkInG $1,000,000/yr tHiS iS eXpLoItAtIoN wE nEeD tO tUrN kOtAku InTo a WoRkErS cO-oP"
"WhAt dO YoU mEaN 'yOu'Re FiReD' tHiS iSnT fAiR"

They can all go fuck themselves. Except for Jason Schreier. He can be insufferable with his politics pretty often, but he does pretty good work outside of that. His write-up on the entire Anthem/EA fiasco is worth a read, for instance.

 

[Haramburger]

They can all go fuck themselves. Except for Jason Schreier. He can be insufferable with his politics pretty often, but he does pretty good work outside of that. His write-up on the entire Anthem/EA fiasco is worth a read, for instance.

This is negated by his ignorant stand against Dragon Crown & its big titty sorceress as "lolicon."

He would also regulary make a horse's ass of himself in other ways:

 

[DecimatedFerret]

Waypoint gets a callout.

 

[AnOminous]

Waypoint gets a callout.

I'm honestly surprised anyone who would get an award from one of these things would call out shit like this.

 

[CrunkLord420]

So did we ever find out what the deal with Austin leaving VICE was? I assumed he was going to announce a new job or something shortly after leaving but it doesn't look like that.