Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[Ghostse]

I missed the quote, but then I got lost among the hundreds of new posts in this mess, heh.

RE: Palpatine's blood triumphing over the Skywalkers, reminds me of the terrible plot Sansa had in Game of Thrones, when she was meant to "avenge" her family:

- Marry Ramsay, the man whose family butchered the Starks and destroyed Winterfell
- Gets raped by him, eventually, she would have gotten pregnant.
- Keeps getting raped until she births a boy
- Boy becomes Ramsay's heir, named Bolton, rather than Stark.
- Sansa likely gets murdered after the spare heir is born.
- Stark line dies with her and is replaced forever by the Boltons.

AVENGED!

Well see, Sansa planned to get her revenge by going full deadfish when they're in the sack. Take that Ramsay, you're getting underwhelming sex on the level of just going at it with a warm jar of mayo! A life time* of passionless mechanical sex with a biological fleshlight will teach you!

*By "a lifetime" I mean her lifetime, the one that lasts until she's murdered exactly as you describe in step 5.
also don't fuck up this comedy post by pointing out that he'd be knee-deep in royal sidepieces

 

[It's HK-47]

1. I didn't know that the Huffington Post employed Mr. Potato Head.
2. Wonder Woman is the highest-grossing superhero origin movie in history. I'm sure that's the patriarchy's fault.

 

[IcyHotStuntaz]

Listening to Doomcock and Gary, I get the impression that Carrie Fisher's lines were used like some kind of soundboard. Anyone else get that impression?

I haven't read any 'behind the scenes' crap... so this is just my thoughts from seeing the movie the other night... I felt Fisher's performance was cobbled together from TFA/TLJ leftovers, CGI face and a voice artist / impersonator... Considering all that on paper sounds like a disaster, it was one part of Ep9 that I couldn't really fault... They made the best of a bad situation with how they handled Leia / Fisher's death.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

View attachment 1063938

1. I didn't know that the Huffington Post employed Mr. Potato Head.
2. Wonder Woman is the highest-grossing superhero origin movie in history. I'm sure that's the patriarchy's fault.

I'm pretty sure if Rey were a man (AKA a generic male anime MC that's OP), people would still have the same hate for Rey save for the autists who unironically did get triggered that Rey was a woman.

 

[Ghostse]

I pretty much agree with this right here... The prequel trilogy was more internally consistent story wise, even if Lucas seemed obsessed with retconning shit in the special editions and still not having things line up perfectly with the OT. The PT clearly enjoyed a thru story thread / plot outline that was clearly missing for Disney and the complete lack of storytelling coherence they delivered.

My knock with the prequels is more about execution. There was a story he wanted to tell, he just did it with a bunch of horrible dialogue and dull presentation. Last time I watched AOTC, which was only a year or so ago with my kids, I was amazed at how fucking pedestrian it was whenever actors had to speak... episodes of Dallas or Falcon Crest from 1986 had more dynamic performances and camera work.

Even before TFA, I had come around around on the prequels once the shock & pain had receded. They aren't bad, they just aren't GOOD. And Anakin is a whiny bitch.

The dialogue is fucking attrocious, especially between Padme and Anakin. I will not defend it and will attack anyone who tries. Even if you use the old "movie serial" excuse, the shit is fucking awful and lacks even the earnest spectacle of a Flash Gordon short. Well, except for ol' Palps. Sheev Thundercock had all the best lines (even the tale of Darth Plagus the Wise) and delivered them PERFECTLY. He was a Republic Serial villian, and Lucas should have confined himself to writing the villains.

But I get the pacing, I see what Lucas was trying (and failing) to do, and to show us. I think he was a fucking retard for doing that on a numbered star wars film, but I see what he was going for, which was intended to be a slower paced story of intrigue and corruption. The space battles were window dressing.

Lucas just really needed someone to tardwrangle him, to translate his autistic screeds into human language.
I think I've told the story of during ANH Peter Cushing refusing to give Tarkin's page long speech about the insignificance of the rebel threat and the invulnerability of the Death Star, cutting it down to just "Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?".

Imagine someone with talent and balls telling Lucas where he can shove his treatise on sand, and delivering a line or two that accomplishes the feeling Lucas was trying to convey with his incredible cringe.

 

[remiem]

I missed the quote, but then I got lost among the hundreds of new posts in this mess, heh.

RE: Palpatine's blood triumphing over the Skywalkers, reminds me of the terrible plot Sansa had in Game of Thrones, when she was meant to "avenge" her family:

- Marry Ramsay, the man whose family butchered the Starks and destroyed Winterfell
- Gets raped by him, eventually, she would have gotten pregnant.
- Keeps getting raped until she births a boy
- Boy becomes Ramsay's heir, named Bolton, rather than Stark.
- Sansa likely gets murdered after the spare heir is born.
- Stark line dies with her and is replaced forever by the Boltons.

AVENGED!

Sansa's storyline was literally just DnD doing their rape n' death boner over how much they loved Ramsay for whatever reason, I never got why they liked him so much except that they wanted to use him to up the -shock and horror- he long overstayed his welcome. It never really went anywhere except to throw in that incredibly cringe 'I heard you got broke in rough' line later AND that's because that storyline was ganked from a book character who wasn't a Stark at all- Jeyne Poole/Fake Arya. It didn't make sense because it was never meant to be Sansa's story, Jeyne's story in the books is all about how the common person suffers and no one cares when they find out she is common. Not to mention they seemed afraid to let Sansa actually grow so she was one step forward, three steps back the entire series until the end.

I think anyone looking at how nasty Palpatine was, corrupted by the dark side, would know he probably couldn't father children without siring some monstrous creature. Otherwise why wouldn't he have done it earlier? with the intent of creating his own perfect 'apprentice/heir' which he was persistently attempting to do through other means; Maul, Dooku & Vader. Rey being a Palpatine is classic fan-fiction / role play trope - oh I will make the (relation) of this incredibly important main character whose incredibly important to the over-arcing lore and will hand wave about the impossibility and lore breaking doing so does. It's like when Fan-fiction writers add new Skywalker kids to Padme and Anakin's relationship because they wanna be cool and badass, but it just falls flat as their story is so strongly cemented.

 

[Creep3r]

Apparently we're Mos Eisley.



If we are Mos Eisley, I call Kabe.

Gosh what an honor...

 

[TheMysteriousAHole]

It wasn't fans, it was a fan: specifically DarthMane2, if memory serves. His request wasn't at all unreasonable either, since Dark Horse was then going all-out on the Clone Wars content and it had been established that the Mandalorians were belligerents in that conflict since literally before Dark Horse even existed as a company. Unfortunately, Randy apparently is/was one of those people who seemingly can't help but turn into a raging 'sperg whenever Boba Fett or anything tangentially related to him comes up in discussion, so, as you say, he responded to the poor guy's request by dropping an unexplained pile of dead Mandos in the background of one panel in the flagship Republic title.

I think John Ostrander may have felt badly about the incident, as he later worked in a mention in Republic #65 that a Mandalorian force had been driven off of the planet New Holstice by Aayla Secura's 30,000-strong 327th Star Corps at the cost of 40% of the Republic troops (the same loss ratio as the British Light Brigade infamously suffered at the Battle of Balaclava), but I don't think any living Mandalorians actually appeared in a Dark Horse-published Clone Wars title for almost a decade after that, with this seeming embargo on exploiting one of the very oldest pieces of Clone Wars lore only lifting in 2013, as a late tie-in with Dave Filoni's animated series:

Appreciate the correction and the fleshed-out info. As good as my memory is at times, I can't deny that I don't remember as much as I used to. Doesn't help that their forums are no longer available. As for Randy's antics, I guess I got a soft spot for the guy which makes me cut him some slack. Yeah, he did have his little issues with certain continuity/canon things at times. Like his ideas regarding the Great Jedi Purge. I also felt he was coming at this from the opinion that they shouldn't be beholden to old concepts if they didn't fit into the larger 'canon' picture.

On the other hand, his rules regarding writing Star Wars was IMHO good (from what we saw of them). Especially 'DON'T VISIT TATOOINE UNLESS YOU HAVE SOME REALLY GOOD GODDAMN REASON' or to paraphrase.

 

[IcyHotStuntaz]

Even before TFA, I had come around around on the prequels once the shock & pain had receded.

The dialogue is fucking attrocious, especially between Padme and Anakin. I will not defend it and will attack anyone who tries. Even if you use the old "movie serial" excuse, the shit is fucking awful and lacks even the earnest spectacle of a Flash Gordon short. Well, except for ol' Palps. Sheev Thundercock had all the best lines (even the tale of Darth Plagus the Wise) and delivered them PERFECTLY. He was a Republic Serial villian, and Lucas should have confined himself to writing the villains.

But I get the pacing, I see what Lucas was trying (and failing) to do, and to show us. I think he was a fucking exceptional individual for doing that on a numbered star wars film, but I see what he was going for, which was intended to be a slower paced story of intrigue and corruption. The space battles were window dressing.

Lucas just really needed someone to tardwrangle him, to translate his autistic screeds into human language.
I think I've told the story of during ANH Peter Cushing refusing to give Tarkin's page long speech about the insignificance of the rebel threat and the invulnerability of the Death Star, cutting it down to just "Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?".

Imagine someone with talent and balls telling Lucas where he can shove his treatise on sand.

Oh yea, there are many stories of Lucas being reigned in during the production of the original trilogy... either by actors or studio brass or his producers. He was a good concept guy, can't take anything away from him in that regard, he captured lightning in a bottle fucking twice.. once with Star Wars and once with Indiana Jones. The guy spun up some great visions... but screenwriting and directing weren't his strong suit... which was proven beyond any doubt once he had complete carte blanche on the PT.

EDIT: McDiaramid is without question the only actor who came out of the prequels unscathed. He was borderline flawless throughout... I mean these were movies that made Samuel L Jackson look tired and uninterested... so that's saying something. Palps chewed all the scenery... physical, digital, he gave no fucks... and it was glorious.

 

[Shield Breaker]

Oh yea, there are many stories of Lucas being reigned in during the production of the original trilogy... either by actors or studio brass or his producers. He was a good concept guy, can't take anything away from him in that regard, he captured lightning in a bottle fucking twice.. once with Star Wars and once with Indiana Jones. The guy spun up some great visions... but screenwriting and directing weren't his strong suit... which was proven beyond any doubt once he had complete carte blanche on the PT.

I think that it is also an issue of success. People like Lucas, Stephen King, etc. buy into their own hype and stop asking themselves "does this really work?" as often.

 

[Ghostse]

Oh yea, there are many stories of Lucas being reigned in during the production of the original trilogy... either by actors or studio brass or his producers. He was a good concept guy, can't take anything away from him in that regard, he captured lightning in a bottle fucking twice.. once with Star Wars and once with Indiana Jones. The guy spun up some great visions... but screenwriting and directing weren't his strong suit... which was proven beyond any doubt once he had complete carte blanche on the PT.

He's great at concept and broad strokes. He's got the right sort of charisma of getting great work out people and finding what he wants to enhance and direct visually, without being the sort of overbearing abusive father like Jobs was. I don't think (cast & brass reigning him in asside) he captured lightning in a bottle. He truly got it, he knew what to do and what to deliver, he just had to be shown the way, and how to translate his idea into something humans will get.

Watching him go through concepts for the PT on the behind the scenes is amazing, he really has an eye and understanding of what works and why, and a solid vision. He understands cinematography extremely well, but as you said, does not get directing.

 

[Toast Sandwich]

I haven't read any 'behind the scenes' crap... so this is just my thoughts from seeing the movie the other night... I felt Fisher's performance was cobbled together from TFA/TLJ leftovers, CGI face and a voice artist / impersonator... Considering all that on paper sounds like a disaster, it was one part of Ep9 that I couldn't really fault... They made the best of a bad situation with how they handled Leia / Fisher's death.

I don't have the same warm feelings so many people have for Fisher, but even to me the parading around of a virtual corpse doesn't feel like making "the best of a bad situation".

I'm pretty sure if Rey were a man (AKA a generic male anime MC that's OP), people would still have the same hate for Rey save for the autists who unironically did get triggered that Rey was a woman.

I'd go further and say that a male Rey, let's call him "Roy", would be cut a lot less slack. The worst case would be if when after Roy's arch enemy "Kyla" had already killed COUNTLESS numbers of Roy's comrades, Roy for some insane reason feels it appropriate to attempt to "change" Kyla, effectively letting her off the hook for all her bad deeds. Even within the story itself it would be expected that other male characters (who witnessed the deaths of those same comrades at Kyla's hand) would see Roy as a traitor for this act alone.

For some reason Rey avoids this problem altogether. Even the audience largely manages to ignore the massive lapse in accountability.

 

[Dom Cruise]

Even before TFA, I had come around around on the prequels once the shock & pain had receded. They aren't bad, they just aren't GOOD. And Anakin is a whiny bitch.

The dialogue is fucking attrocious, especially between Padme and Anakin. I will not defend it and will attack anyone who tries. Even if you use the old "movie serial" excuse, the shit is fucking awful and lacks even the earnest spectacle of a Flash Gordon short. Well, except for ol' Palps. Sheev Thundercock had all the best lines (even the tale of Darth Plagus the Wise) and delivered them PERFECTLY. He was a Republic Serial villian, and Lucas should have confined himself to writing the villains.

But I get the pacing, I see what Lucas was trying (and failing) to do, and to show us. I think he was a fucking exceptional individual for doing that on a numbered star wars film, but I see what he was going for, which was intended to be a slower paced story of intrigue and corruption. The space battles were window dressing.

Lucas just really needed someone to tardwrangle him, to translate his autistic screeds into human language.
I think I've told the story of during ANH Peter Cushing refusing to give Tarkin's page long speech about the insignificance of the rebel threat and the invulnerability of the Death Star, cutting it down to just "Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?".

Imagine someone with talent and balls telling Lucas where he can shove his treatise on sand, and delivering a line or two that accomplishes the feeling Lucas was trying to convey with his incredible cringe.

Here's what it alllllllll comes down to, this applies to the Prequels, the Sequels and not just Star Wars but everything.

Character, character, character, it all comes down to the characters, not special effects or world building or action scenes, but compelling characters that you simply like spending time with.

That's the secret of the success of the original trilogy, we enjoyed spending time with Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie and the Droids and that's the main problem with the Prequels, Anakin just wasn't a very fun character to spend time with, he was whiny, morose and bitter, Obi Wan had some charm but it wasn't enough, we had to like actually spending time with the Protagonist.

Same deal with the Sequels, Finn is ok, maybe Poe too if you're generous, but it all revolves around the cold fish of Rey, who is neither sexy, cute or charming.

Any big franchise you look at, whether it's Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Ghostbusters or Back To The Future all had characters that audiences simply enjoyed spending time with, that's what it all comes down to.

 

[IcyHotStuntaz]

I think that it is also an issue of success. People like Lucas, Stephen King, etc. buy into their own hype and stop asking themselves "does this really work?" as often.

That's definitely part of it... I also think most creative people don't keep their fastball forever. Writers and musicians spring to mind most often... your favorite band probably had a solid ten year stretch where they released their best work... before the well started running dry, the rotator cuff was wore out, the new ideas started sounding more and more like retreads of past success... happens to the best of them. Also with Lucas, I think enough time passed where he was basically enjoying semi-retirement as the figurehead of a special effects company... and most of the creative people who felt comfortable challenging him had long since moved on to other things.

 

[Love Machine]

Its amazing how thicc this guy was while also having a helmet half the size of mando.

 

[IcyHotStuntaz]

I don't have the same warm feelings so many people have for Fisher, but even to me the parading around of a virtual corpse doesn't feel like making "the best of a bad situation".

Meh... using a famous guy that died decades earlier to sell vacuum cleaners? That's parading around a virtual corpse....

Cobbling together a few short scenes from leftovers / using reverse shots of stand-ins isn't unheard of in these types of situations... the show must go on and all that and she signed up for the movie. It's not the producers fault that her coke addled heart exploded. Now something like CGI Tarkin in Rogue One was a lot more creepy as Cushing had been dead for 30 years and didn't sign up for the movie... just hire a guy that kinda looks like him and move along.

 

[Cyril Sneer]

The dialogue is fucking attrocious, especially between Padme and Anakin. I will not defend it and will attack anyone who tries. Even if you use the old "movie serial" excuse, the shit is fucking awful and lacks even the earnest spectacle of a Flash Gordon short.

Come at me, bro.

I mean, yeah, the dialogue between Anakin and Padme in AOTC is nails-on-chalkboard cringe, but it kind of makes sense that their interactions would be weirdly stilted like that, because they're both grown-up child soldiers of sorts, having spent most of their formative years far removed from any kind of normal life, and instead being trained as a warrior for the Force, on the one hand, and a political warrior for Naboo and its associated bloc of systems on the other. That said, their lines are still far, far more awkward than they should have been, like, passing beyond the realm of awkward, socially-stunted kids-in-grownup bodies and into the realm of aliens trying to mimic human behaviour.

Well, except for ol' Palps. Sheev Thundercock had all the best lines (even the tale of Darth Plagus the Wise) and delivered them PERFECTLY. He was a Republic Serial villian, and Lucas should have confined himself to writing the villains.

To be fair, Qui-Gon's lines in TPM are either pretty good or at least not-cringey, and Liam Neeson even manages to almost make the whole spiel about medichlorians seem believable.

Lucas just really needed someone to tardwrangle him, to translate his autistic screeds into human language.
I think I've told the story of during ANH Peter Cushing refusing to give Tarkin's page long speech about the insignificance of the rebel threat and the invulnerability of the Death Star, cutting it down to just "Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?".

Imagine someone with talent and balls telling Lucas where he can shove his treatise on sand.

Harrison Ford apparently used to do that a lot WRT the lines Lucas had written up for Han Solo.

Appreciate the correction and the fleshed-out info. As good as my memory is at times, I can't deny that I don't remember as much as I used to.

Kih'parjai , ner vod. Thanks for jogging mine.

Doesn't help that their forums are no longer available.

The whole thing actually spilled over into the neighboring Jedi Council Forums, where both Randy and DarthMane2 had accounts (DarthMane2 is apparently one of the elder moderators there now). They still retain discussion-threads going all the way back to the early 2000s, so with a little bit of digging, you might be able to track down more details on the incident.

As for Randy's antics, I guess I got a soft spot for the guy which makes me cut him some slack. Yeah, he did have his little issues with certain continuity/canon things at times. Like his ideas regarding the Great Jedi Purge. I also felt he was coming at this from the opinion that they shouldn't be beholden to old concepts if they didn't fit into the larger 'canon' picture.

On the other hand, his rules regarding writing Star Wars was IMHO good (from what we saw of them). Especially 'DON'T VISIT TATOOINE UNLESS YOU HAVE SOME REALLY GOOD GODDAMN REASON' or to paraphrase.

To be fair to Randy, as much as he seemed to hate Boba Fett, to the point of having him frozen in carbonite and then apparently dropped into Bespin's core in one of the Infinities "What-If?" books, he was still willing to take a joke at his own expense (as when Boba Fett showed up at his office in a later editorial cartoon to complain about being so-used, and then carbon-froze Randy himself in retaliation).

I'm still just a little frustrated about the whole thing, because it was such a missed opportunity to have this sprawling, galaxy-spanning account of the Clone Wars in the Republic books (to date, I think, still the largest body of work covering that period of SW continuity) and to never show the Mandalorians in action, especially since, as I mentioned previously, "Mandalorians fought against the Jedi in the Clone Wars" was one of the very first details that SW fans ever heard about it, beyond the involvement of Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader.

 

[Poe-Shen Zcela]

God damn. Whatever grievances I might have had with Boyega in the past, he's pretty based atm.
I also like how Oscar Isaacs and Boyega share banter and how Isaacs laughs at Boyega pointing out that jetpacks were in use since the clone wars... and all the while, Daisy Ridley sits there, like a cardboard cutout.

Don't forget Isaacs' response to whether or not he'd want to do a Star Wars TV show for Disney+:



NOPE

Finished watching it from our generous Korean friends on the high seas. Many Bulgogi's were consumed in the watching of this shit show.

Care to drop a MEGA link?

I'd rather watch TRoS than ever watch The Phantom Menace ever again.

High praise I guess, but TPM gets a bad rap despite being very original as far as Star Wars movies are concerned. New planets, pod racing, great lightsaber fights, completely different galactic setting with the Trade Federation vs the Republic. Before TPM there wasn't any Star Wars content quite like it, with an almost completely new cast and setting, and while it lacked the sort of Buck Rogers esque adventure framing and pacing as the original Star Wars, it still had the benefit of an original score from John Williams and a healthy amount of action scenes against the otherwise dull political backdrop. Ani being a 10-year-old Gary Stu was annoying and there was no need for him to have made C3P0, but to the film's benefit, he's not the focus of most of it. He's not like John Connor in T2, in that the antagonist was chasing him for the whole movie. The Jedi just happened to find him, and he just happened to get into a cockpit and blow up a control ship at the end. Hamfisted Gary Stu writing, but it had the benefit of being kinda goofy and relatable for kids, and thankfully the movie doesn't revolve around him the same way that the sequels do for Rey.

But in general, I felt TFA nailed the SW universe vibe much better than the prequels did. From the get go, the prequels looked cheap. Nobody was fooled that this was anything but Lucas sitting in a greenscreen covered warehouse outside of San Francisco filming his actors read banal dialogue. They just felt lazy from the get-go. There were exceptions obviously, with TPM returning to Tunisia and such... but just way way way too many obvious digital matte paintings sucked the immersion dry pretty quickly. It just didn't really pass the smell test at the time and today looks dated as fuck. Lucas was more worried about advertising for ILM then he was in telling an engaging story or getting his actors to wake up. But I will give Lucas credit where it is deserved, the prequel trilogy slowly improved over time while Disney shit the bed and crashed with their 2nd entry.

The unfortunate consequence of Lucas' emphasis on digital film-making was that he did use a lot of practical sets and models for TPM, but the CG was so distinctive and all-encompassing that nobody would ever guess. I don't know if I'd say it looks dated now, but to use the most prominent example, Jar Jar still looks good today as he did in 2000, despite being a goofy unwanted character.

That was the best part of the entire movie!

Ya boi. I thought it got slow once they were walking on a tightrope, but that entire fight was an amazing spectacle. It's easy to overlook how much work went into that choreography alone:

 

[Cyril Sneer]

View attachment 1064007

Its amazing how thicc this guy was while also having a helmet half the size of mando.

I doubt that it's literally half the size, but the standard Mandalorian helmet is actually pretty big.

It's not the producers fault that her coke addled heart exploded.

It may have been, actually. Disney apparently put Fisher (who was, let's remember, a 5'2" sexagenarian woman with lifelong substance abuse problems) on a very intensive crash-course of weight-loss and physical conditioning to get into shape for TFA. It wouldn't surprise me if they pushed her just a little too hard to slim down.

Now something like CGI Tarkin in Rogue One was a lot more creepy as Cushing had been dead for 30 years and didn't sign up for the movie... just hire a guy that kinda looks like him and move along.

It blows my mind that they didn't just show up at Wayne Pygram's door with his Tarkin costume from ROTS. Talk about missed opportunities...

 

[Blimp]

On the sorta same subject, and because it's fresh in my mind, Shadows of the Empire isn't the worlds greatest SW game, but it's a charming game, and I'd rather have the hand-drawn cutscenes from emulating than the CG in the official PC release, ESPECIALLY 90's CG




Tie Fighter also had loads of imperial officers that were basically not-Tarkin's design-wise, and even those have a certain human spark to them, although some of that's probably because nobody's being superimposed over reality either



You could tell they knew it looked weird based on how many shadowy scenes he was part of, but even obscuring him and quick cuts won't change the fact he still clashes with the smoothskins. The younger guy we saw from behind in ROTS didn't piss anybody off, so was it just impossible to recreate Cushing with makeup and recasting?