Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

But just the ones on RottenTomatoes, while all the other sites have the audience reaction pretty much at the same level as the critics?



I hope they get Sutter Caned.
Not to mention there hasn't been a single change in the percentage on RT. Not even once. It has stayed at a perfect 86% since day 1. Not even a single shit below or above that. If it started low then rose to 90% or if at least shifted to 88% I'd be inclined to believe there's nothing suspicious going on. But even now critic score is at 55% and other review sites have their percentages and scores constantly changing, even if its only by a little.
 
yeah, that's why I was hesitant to make anakin too old when he would be found. having more qui-gon doesn't have to mean more anakin at the same time (even when the prequels were all about anakin's fall, imo it was stretched out way too long), but how much time did they even spend together? I don't know if qui-gon had such a big impact in the first place, back then my impression was more with him getting disillusioned and acting out of spite and rebel (being a stupid teen and all). it was a good setup for the "older brother" tho with obi suddenly having to take care of him
Qui-Gon and Anakin didn't really spend a lot of time together, but that's the point; under Qui-Gon's individualistic and slightly maverick guidance, Anakin could have matured into a truly great Jedi, the Chosen One that everyone hoped for, but then he died, and Obi-Wan, and his dogmatic reliance upon the direction of the High Council, proved to be a poor (albeit sincere and well-meaning) substitute.
 
Not exactly.

You guys are right in pointing out that it was impossible to set up a villain to "finish the 9 movies Skywalker saga" or even "wrap this trilogy". That was impossible to fix because Ryan killed the main villain in part2." Every new villain, like the son, and Palpatine, would seem like an asspull. There just was not set up for that.

But to have a villain to make this movie good; that wasn't impossible. Most self-contained movies manage to do it.

I think most people suggesting re-writes and ideas here are saying ROS could've been a good movie on its own, not that it could magically fix the lack of foresight TFA and TLJ had, which I agree simply couldn't be done.
The only villian left was Kylo, period. That's what RJ did: made the central focus between Rey and Kylo....

To make something coherant you needed to commit to that.

Probably resolving it with both coming to a truce. That is, finding balance between light and dark...

Course, ending on ambiguity and peaceful resolution, is not what the audience wants...

But wrapping up the Skywalker saga commenting on wars and the nature of good/evil: philosophically, it at least has something to say...

Personally, I wanted the Skywalkers to exit the story going back to humble beginnings. That's the end game of the heroes journey.

Killing them off just seems mean spirited to me(though I know why they did it). Especially, for your family centric fairy tale...
 
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The only villian left was Kylo, period. That's what RJ did: made the central focus between Rey and Kylo....


I agree that he was the only villain left. But, did he have the strength to pull off being the main villain? I don't think so.
Remember Kylo had been nothing but a whiny kid trying too hard to be Darth Vader, and Rey has had no problem defeating him, which is not bad for his role as a conflicted kid, but it isn't A-villain material.

Kylo was ok as a secondary antagonist, but not as the endgame villain of a trilogy or a saga of 9 movies. He is just not smart, powerful, or experienced enough.

If Kylo was believable as the main villain they would've gone that route, but he simply doesn't have that pull or presence that even Snoke had before being killed.
 
Why wouldn't he be famous, though? He was the rookie pilot who miraculously took down the Empie's greatest war-machine at the literal last minute.
Without looking it up, how many Medal of Honor recipients can you name? Who were the pilots of the Enola Gay? What's the name of the guy who shot Osama Bin Laden? Military heroism does not make one a celebrity or a legend. High command might bring a person public renown, but individual acts of heroism do not.

His only family was burned alive by Imperial troops.
We don't know if they were alive, but name one living person whose family was burned alive by the ATF at Waco, TX. Or the who was burned alive by the FBI in his cabin. Or the people in Philadelphia who were firebombed by the police. Or anyone whose family was burned alive by incendiary bombings in Japan.

Being burned alive by governments is very common. Normal people tut tut over it and move on with their lives. If the deceased are bad guys and there's no TV crew on site, people don't even notice.

Red Squadron's original CO, a grizzled old Clone Wars vet, comes up and tells him that he knew his father.
So? Lots of military aviators know each other. That doesn't make their kids famous.

He's an honest-to-God Jedi in a faction that calls itself the "Alliance to Restore the Republic" and where officers dismiss their subordinates with the benediction "may the Force be with us." Luke is, quite honestly, a tailor-made subject for morale-building and it would be passing strange if his face wasn't plastered over every Rebel propaganda holo and poster in the galaxy.
I can make my own argument from incredulity. It would be passing strange if the Alliance (and later Republic) made a target out of their only Jedi by publishing his image and facts about his life all over the galaxy. The fact of his Jedi studies would not be of interest to the vast majority of the galaxy, which considered the Jedi an ancient religion based on superstition, but it would certainly draw attention from Imperial quarters. His identity, and especially his Force sensitivity, would be a closely-guarded secret.

If anyone from the OT was known to civilians, it would have been Leia. Imperial Senator, royalty of a lost planet, figurehead of the genocided Alderaanians. That's the kind of person you use in propaganda.
 
Yuck.(:_(

"Indeed." - Count Dooku, Genndy Wars

THE MASTER CALLS - 05 -

We cross the threshold of the citadel entrance and find ourselves standing in a large main hall of what seems to be a palace cut out from the ice itself from times past. My fellow Knights and I sense the Dark Side guiding us, Bogan whispering to us, leading us ever forward. We make our way slowly, cautiously, aware that the wound in the Force's presence ebb and flow closer and closer as we approach.

Ushar surveys along with Kuruk, while Ap'lek and Trudgen alternate between serving as rearguard and looking about upwards, against any surprise attacks from towering interior, cracks of light barely illuminating our way, lightning silently flashing from the outside and the constant rumble of distant thunder, soft in its resonance, but consistent in reminding us of the instability of Exogol.

"How long has this... Storm raged, I wonder." Trudgen states aloud, before Kuruk answers, looking down his disruptor rifle's sights and surveying at a corner on the far right wall, before lowering it and moving with Ap'lek again. "Its are definitely not recent, if anything. The rate and manner in which this particular storm is assailing us lends to the fact it might have appeared in the last few years."

Another whisper in the Force and we stagger slightly, unprepared for the wound's effects affecting us again. This time it is as if Master Ren is with us in the moment, standing beside me in the middle of our formation, when just like a fleeting glimpse, it was gone again. "Did you-?!" Ap'lek began, and I gave a curt nod. "Yes. I saw him among us, with us. Master Ren." I motioned beyond the hall to large doors in front of us, made of reflective metal that shone against the ice and frozen over. We stood in front of the strange doors, before looking at one another.

"Phrik." Ushar stated, running his gloved finger across the script etched on the doors. "And these runes... These are nothing like I've ever seen." Before I can ask any of our number to focus within Bogan to call upon the answer, a familiar voice graces us, as he walks among our number from behind us. "I thought I would have taught you better to read in the extinct scripts during the decade I taught you and your Master, my Knights." We spun round, weapons ready - only to be greeted by the Force ghost of Lord Snoke. We fell to one knee as he stood in the middle of our gathering, mere steps from the Phrik double-doors.

"Supreme Prophet...!" I started, not being able to comprehend how he was with us, but at the same time I dared not raise my gaze up to our deceased former leader. "My Lord..." The others managed, all barely grasping at who stood before us. "We sensed your death in the Force, my Lord. How is this..."

"-possible? Did you all forget what I taught you already? That Bogan itself is a pathway to many abilities..." We all felt ourselves awash with realization within us, remembering what had happened when we were affected by the wound in the Force. We drew upon Lord Snoke's teachings, and found ourselves again in Bogan. "When Kylo Ren struck me down, I became more powerful than anyone could have possibly imagined. Now, come my loyal Knights. You have served well, but your mission is not yet complete. It lies beyond these doors."

More questions now, and my Brothers shared them in our confused and frustrated silence. The fact we were sent to this blasted husk of a world, leaving our Lord undefended and losing the First Order, the Empire's inheritors, to be usurped by a self-serving power-hungry warlord and losing our Master to the Ashla, which in turn cost us Lord Snoke. We were without a purpose, simply moving forward on this last mission because it is what was given. I found myself speaking up.

"Lord Snoke. What is this place...? We were dispatched here because you ordered us to close a wound in the Force, but we believe it to be so much more. If it is what we think it is, we could step into it, use it..." Snoke appeared surprised and amused that I was speaking, listening intently. "...and how would you use it, Vicrul?" I raised a clenched hand at Snoke. "Make it so that our enemies would be undone before they even had a chance to strike... Rewrite the mistakes of the past. We could find a way to prevent Master Ren from being retaken by Ashla, and preserve the First Order after the loss of both Starkiller Base and the Supremacy."

Lord Snoke simply shook his head, and beckoned us to the Phrik doors themselves. He declared that it was pointless to mull over what has happened, because they weee unavoidable and inevitable... In this time. "They have already happened... All of them, what could be, should be or will be... Has already happened. You could not manipulate the doorway insomuch as you cannot hold back the torrent of an ocean yourself."

Now we were more confused, but Lord Snoke told us to walk through the doors and see for ourselves, and that we would understand. He pointed to the first two scriptures of writing on the distant top of the doors.

"Rakatan and Massassi." Lord Snoke began, running his ghostly fingers across both texts.

"The Rakatan word - Daritha is Immortal, while the Massassi one used is Darr Ta, or Dark One. Both are forerunners of the title Darth."

There was that feeling of being washed over by a tide of cold darkness, liquid dread that started to build as Lord Snoke read the writing, because the next few scriptures were in High Galactic, while the last one was in basic script.

"The Brotherhood of Darkness.
The Nightsisters.
The Sorcerers of Tund.
The Sith.
The Prophets of the Dark Side
."

Lord Snoke paused, almost deliberately, because we were seeing a double door made out of indestructible metal, impervious to lightsaber scoring from a bygone age, having been etched and wrought millenia before we even existed, or any of the groups present on the doors at the time of its installation did.

"Knights of Ren."

The Phrik double-doors opened, cracking away the ice that encased them and slowly retracted then inward. Lord Snoke led us into a spacious antechamber, which housed a pink crystal in the distance amid the walls of cut blue ice. It was jarring, to move between freezing blue-ish black tints into an area with pulsing pink illumination, given the time we spent tracking in near-darkness.

Inside, were the six priestesses which we knew when Lord Snoke was still the Supreme Prophet of the Prophets of the Dark Side. Their bodies strewn about the floor, their golden ritual masks still concealing their faces, the masks' foreheads emblazoned with the old Sith symbol from the time of the Brotherhood of Darkness. There was death here, and it was recent. It didn't make sense with the age of the doors, the sheer time that it took to ice over, and it seemed that the priestesses of the Prophets of the Dark Side seemed to have been present here little over a few days prior, dead in half that time.

Something wasn't right. But things only served to become far more stranger...

Lord Snoke's shimmering outline began to waver, as if part of a faulty transmission. But the wound in the Force took hold again, and it seemed like Kylo Ren was among us one moment again, before flashing to another moment when we were all Jedi, standing where we stood, our lightsabers at the ready against Lord Snoke and the crystal, before returning to what we were- Knights of Ren in the present.

"That wasn't... It couldn't have been-" Trudgen began, before Kuruk drew his disruptor rifle and looked about, trying to blink away what we saw and felt. "That was us- we are trying to destroy or attack you at one point. But how could we still be Jedi while serving you, Lord?" Kuruk exclaimed. Lord Snoke stretched his arm out towards the towering pink crystal, seemingly growing out of the ice which the entire keep was carved and cut out around it to keep it hidden from prying eyes and hands.

"As I said earlier, my Knights... Whatever has happened has already happened. No way of changing the past.." Snoke began, and then we saw it.

In the many-faceted faces of the uneven, jagged surfaces of this strange, oversized jewel. Shapes and silhouettes that coalesced into people that we knew from historical records, before shifting with what the Crystal displayed, other worlds and other beings, each becoming more fantastical than the last.

But with each shift and change, the more unfamiliar and strange they became. A time when Ben Solo did not exist, and the Knights of Ren never came to be. When the Prophets of the Dark Side declined from it's founding under Darth Millenial, and no Lord Snoke to steward the order. Another time where Darth Vader was redeemed and wore stark white armor, rejoining his twins, the General Leia Organa and the former Master Skywalker they were familiar with in their world.

Ushar spoke at the shifting possibilities that were present before us. "This... Is the wound in the Force? You ordered us to close us, Lord. But how would we do this even? This is not a window into the past..." Ap'lek spoke now, his polearm axe at the ready. "It's a window into the future. A window into possible futures." Ap'lek started, before I found myself completing the sentence. "What would you have us do, Lord Snoke?" The shimmering outline of Lord Snoke began to pulse with iridescence as he smiled, regarding the dead priestesses which lay about us with his outstretched arms.

"The priestesses gave up their life essence to stabilize my incorporeal form after your ingrate Master Kylo Ren struck me down. But I was prepared, ready to conquer death like the Jedi of old who believed in feeble things like selflessness and compassion." Lord Snoke explained that The First Order would attempt to retake this Galaxy from the Republic, and he would preside over a Galaxy of perpetual conflict, strengthening the Dark Side, making us stronger beyond anything or anyone imaginable.

"Ever since the discovery of this strange crystal at the edge of the Galaxy with Darth Sidious and the other adherents of Bogan, they all feared in tapping into its power, even among themselves." Lord Snoke then explained that after his 'death', Kylo Ren would have visions of Exogol and expose the power of this place to Skywalker, who would come and try to retake this planet and reverse the effects of the crystal tearing it apart.

We looked at each other, both the possibility of other versions of ourselves existing already too much to even understand, much less comprehend the ramifications of what Lord Snoke desired. He desired to become a God through Bogan, and we, his Apostles. We were taught to follow Master Ren, trained by Lord Snoke as his personal vanguard, loyal to the Dark Side itself.

Lord Snoke embodied the Dark Side, at least that's what he wanted us to believe. But this... It's far too much, and far too vast for any one being alone. "Do you so swear, Reclaimers of Bogan, Knights of Ren?" Snoke questioned, feeling his psychic command to kneel before him, the would-be God of the Dark Side. "Swear to serve as you have vowed before your Supreme Prophet, against Skywalker and the traitor Solo?!"

"Lord Snoke is insane." I heard Ap'lek in a distant corner of my head, trying to shield our conversation from Snoke's pervasive view of our minds.

"Worse, he is weak." Kuruk interjected, and I could feel his disgust. "He gorged on those priestesses' lifeforces because he was desperate not to die after being bisected by the Master."

"...and now he wants to destroy the crystal because Skywalker and Master Ren know of it. He would not risk the planet we stand on now if he had a further plan than perpetual war in the Galaxy." Ushar reflected on our situation, seeing as we did not possess a backup flock of women willing to give their souls for us.

"...notwithstanding what the Crystal is. If Snoke wants us to destroy it so as not to fall into the hands of the Ashla, it could have far-reaching consequences. The Galaxy- reality- could be undone." Trudgen stated, a second time he observed a radical thought.

I considered options in the span of seconds which seemed like the gulf of parsecs. What I planned would be insane, but it might be enough to save us from Snoke's madness.

"I so swear..." I began, going down on one knee once more, as my fellow Brothers Ren followed suit.

"We so swear, having heard your call, your last command, Supreme Prophet Snoke." Each of us readied our weapons as we assumed stances from our kneeling vows, in a way we could spring the trap which hinged on Snoke himself.

"Excellent, my Knights! Now, as for the crystal... Destroy it, before Skywalker and Solo can arrive...!"

We tensed. Ushar and Kuruk readied for their thermal detonators and disruptor rifle, while Trudgen and Ap'lek's hands shivered as they held their weapons out. We were to use our Lightsabers as last-resort weapons, just like the Master taught us in our new role as Snoke's chosen.

The Reclaimers of Bogan.

The Knights of Ren.

This would be the moment that we truly served the Dark Side.

@Adamska
@GeneralFriendliness
@The Decimator
@Kiwi Lime Pie
@Starscreams Cape
 
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I agree that he was the only villain left. But, did he have the strength to pull off being the main villain? I don't think so.
Remember Kylo had been nothing but a whiny kid trying too hard to be Darth Vader, and Rey has had no problem defeating him, which is not bad for his role as a conflicted kid, but it isn't A-villain material.

Kylo was ok as a secondary antagonist, but not as the endgame villain of a trilogy or a saga of 9 movies. He is just not smart, powerful, or experienced enough.

If Kylo was believable as the main villain they would've gone that route, but he simply doesn't have that pull or presence that even Snoke had before being killed.
Kylo could work as a main villain if he had growth in the second movie and could prove to be a threat by giving Rey a hard time but we know that will never happen because Rey could never get hurt in a Star Wars movie.
 
Is it dumb of me to think Rise of Skywalker could be a legit contender for the Razzies?

Had the razors nominate Daisy for each film, she’d win by a landslide vote.
 
I agree that he was the only villain left. But, did he have the strength to pull off being the main villain? I don't think so.
Remember Kylo had been nothing but a whiny kid trying too hard to be Darth Vader, and Rey has had no problem defeating him, which is not bad for his role as a conflicted kid, but it isn't A-villain material.

Kylo was ok as a secondary antagonist, but not as the endgame villain of a trilogy or a saga of 9 movies. He is just not smart, powerful, or experienced enough.

If Kylo was believable as the main villain they would've gone that route, but he simply doesn't have that pull or presence that even Snoke had before being killed.
Depends...

If Kylo's journey was from whiny bitch to the big bad guy....

His end game, he beats Rey, defeats the resistance and then....

It ends up being exactly what he doesn't want...

But thats a ballsy, ambigious ending. That's type of shit RJ was setting up.

It was never going to happen though...

Only issue is what's Rey's journey then? The only thing I can come up with:

Rey/Kylo come to the same conclusion: this force shit is for idiots...
 
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Is it dumb of me to think Rise of Skywalker could be a legit contender for the Razzies?

Had the razors nominate Daisy for each film, she’d win by a landslide vote.
It depends if Disney would admit fault but if true, it's not the first time a Star Wars film was nominated for the razzies.
 
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Kylo could work as a main villain if he had growth in the second movie and could prove to be a threat by giving Rey a hard time but we know that will never happen because Rey could never get hurt in a Star Wars movie.
If Kylo's journey was from whiny bitch to the big bad guy....

I couldn't agree more. If TLJ had made Kylo credible, he could've been the main villain. The Last Jedi made it clear he only had the upper hand because the first order outnumbered the resistance, but, individually, he didn't feel like a treat at all. And in fact, Rey could've easily defeated him.

I would've loved a badass Kylo as a villain, but the set up just wasn't there. Say, Darth Vader was just Palpatine's apprentice, and he did have that pull in the OT.
 
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I couldn't agree more. If TLJ had made Kylo credible, he could've been the main villain. The Last Jedi made it clear he only had the upper hand because The first order outnumbered the resistance, but, individually, he didn't feel like a treat at all. And in fact, Rey could've easily defeated him.

I would've loved a badass Kylo as a villain, but the set up just wasn't there.
Yeah and it doesn't help the concept of a weak villain becoming more competent/strong isn't much of a stretch as many stories have main villains who started off weak and incompetent, and this would've been perfect for Star Wars given it contrasts many of the previous villains who started off as competent.
 
So where does Star Wars go from here. With the miscarriage of the sequel trilogy and a second sequel trilogy planned since before TFA will the backlash that the last two movies generated possibly put those plans on hold, or will Disney continue milking the dead horse until the franchise no longer is profitable
 
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