War Iran-United States Military Crisis of 2020 - US Baghdad embassy under siege, rocket fire in US Baghdad green zone, Ukrainian Airlines flight 752 crash, and more!

Christ Cried · Jan 8, 2020

Imagine going to your enemy and saying "hey I know you just ganked my best general, we look really fucking stupid right now. Can we please fire a bunch of rockets at your base sometime tomorrow just to save face?" Now imagine that during the course of accomplishing nothing, you shoot down a civilian plane. Iran is a fucking joke.

theshep · Jan 8, 2020

greengrilledcheese said:
Wouldn't that be mangled in the initial contact with the plane? Strange that it is just laying on the undisturbed ground around it. I would think that falling from thousands of feet would leave some damage to the fins and tear up the ground around it at a bare minimum.

Nah, not necessarily.

Examples in this article... http://lugansk-news.com/tag/tor-sam/

I'm still sceptical of the provenance of the image. It could really be from anywhere, I'll wait until there's more info.

Feline Supremacist · Jan 8, 2020

Кот Бегемот said:
I can not even hint at the powerlevel here because of family etc ... but just trust me, there was more than collision. As you can lookup, there were tests for new torpedoes that US was very interested in. There were some severe fuck ups that would serve no one to admit. We do know that "payout" was given for no reason to Russian federation and high ranking officials traveling shortly after. This is a case when truth would serve no one, only make ordinary people freak out.

Ok then. Reminds me of ongoing speculation regarding the Scorpion, which went down in 1968. Terrible way to go.

Leibowitz · Jan 8, 2020

Pocket Dragoon said:
Honestly, I figure the Kursk was an embarrassing own-goal, along the lines of the US Navy's recent mishaps with exceptionally exceptional collisions. Didn't the Russians have a couple more recent sub mishaps as well, not long after Kursk?

And if I recall, the Russians declined far more aid & assistance from the West in regards to technical & logistical support than they accepted. Not that I blame them though, on state-secret level, as well as a matter of pride. I'm sure the US Navy would've loved to have been able to blame their fuckups on mechanical faults, and not let slip the fact that Navy seamen were too busy watching hentai or blowing each other in their racks to stand watch.

Submarines seem surprisingly accident prone.

List of submarine incidents since 2000 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'd never heard of the incident where the San Francisco ran into a damn underwater mountain. And how poetic is it that we have a sub named after San Fran. That must be the gayest ship in the fleet.

Mr. Skeltal · Jan 8, 2020

mindlessobserver said:
View attachment 1088912

Those are some very suspicious looking holes on the tail fin debris.

Former jet engine mechanic, there's no way that engine debris from a screech failure (when the rotor blades interface with the stator case) could punch holes orthogonally into to the long axis of a 737 tail fin. When turbines catastrophically fail they tend to explode out along the plane of rotation, very rarely will debris deviate away from the plane of rotation unless detached from another portion of the plane after the initial compressor/fan/turbine failure.
If you've ever seen commercial or military aircraft powered by turbofan or turboprop engines then you've probably seen lines on the engine nacelles or fuselage that seem to have no indicating function.
These lines are present because during engine tests when the engine is installed in the aircraft, any rotor that undergoes screech will catastrophically fail and the debris will explode out of the aircraft from that indicator line in a plane of shrapnel and death.

Even accounting for relative airspeed, the shrapnel from a main engine failure would be going fast enough to tear through the rest of the aircraft in mostly straight lines away from the stricken engine, not magically curve like the Kennedy bullet to score a perpendicular potshot into the tail fin.

Dom Cruise · Jan 8, 2020

JosephStalin said:
The thing about this situation I find unbelievably disgusting is all the "Americans" who acted as apologists for Soleimani and their hatred of President Trump. Get the impression that these people revel in the thought of American men and women being killed by Iranian actions. The ONLY way Soleimani was going to stop what he was doing was to die. Fucker's dead now. President Trump is merely doing his job. Am sure if he had to do it over he'd still wax Soleimani.

You come out of this thinking the Democrats/leftists/MSM are a bigger enemy of and threat to our country than ANY foreign power. Seriously, the Dems never miss a chance to fuck themselves and increase the divisions in our country.

They are, if it isn't clear by now that they exist to destroy America from the inside I don't know what to tell you.

Granola Grenadine · Jan 8, 2020

WutangLee said:
Anybody as confused and scratching their head as to why the farleft has been defending Iran fanatically? They're quick to pin Russia in being under their bed, but Iran gets a free pass on upholding and defending Assad, and trying to kill Americans? Well in this case Iraqis and Ukranians..............and other Iranians.

ORANGE MAN BAD!!!!11

...No, really, that's pretty much the gist of it.

who dare wins? · Jan 8, 2020

Mr. Skeltal said:
Former jet engine mechanic, there's no way that engine debris from a screech failure (when the rotor blades interface with the stator case) could punch holes orthogonally into to the long axis of a 737 tail fin. When turbines catastrophically fail they tend to explode out along the plane of rotation, very rarely will debris deviate away from the plane of rotation unless detached from another portion of the plane after the initial compressor/fan/turbine failure.
If you've ever seen commercial or military aircraft powered by turbofan or turboprop engines then you've probably seen lines on the engine nacelles or fuselage that seem to have no indicating function.
These lines are present because during engine tests when the engine is installed in the aircraft, any rotor that undergoes screech will catastrophically fail and the debris will explode out of the aircraft from that indicator line in a plane of shrapnel and death.

Even accounting for relative airspeed, the shrapnel from a main engine failure would be going fast enough to tear through the rest of the aircraft in mostly straight lines away from the stricken engine, not magically curve like the Kennedy bullet to score a perpendicular potshot into the tail fin.

Considering this and how I saw some other photo of what I think it was the front of the plane, and when compared to other debris fond planes shot down it looks almost fucking identical, depends what missiles were used on the jet.

Spiteful Crow · Jan 8, 2020

JosephStalin said:
The thing about this situation I find unbelievably disgusting is all the "Americans" who acted as apologists for Soleimani and their hatred of President Trump. Get the impression that these people revel in the thought of American men and women being killed by Iranian actions. The ONLY way Soleimani was going to stop what he was doing was to die. Fucker's dead now. President Trump is merely doing his job. Am sure if he had to do it over he'd still wax Soleimani.

You come out of this thinking the Democrats/leftists/MSM are a bigger enemy of and threat to our country than ANY foreign power. Seriously, the Dems never miss a chance to fuck themselves and increase the divisions in our country.

I was expecting far worse from the squad than what I got, and instead I was greeted with wild speculation about war crimes and WW3 by purported level headed members of the Democratic leadership. I wasn't terribly surprised to see Ilhan Omar chirping about stupid shit but knowing that senior leaders are apparently so out of their wits that they feel the need to defend a vicious killer like Soleimani is simply unforgivable.

The depth of this Trump derangement continues to make me glad that there are other options come election day. I just don't see myself voting for very many incumbents when the entire establishment strategy is built on absurd lies.

Trump is a fucking lunatic but at least he's the people's lunatic. That's more than many senior Democrats can say.

Dom Cruise · Jan 8, 2020

Spiteful Crow said:
I was expecting far worse from the squad than what I got, and instead I was greeted with wild speculation about war crimes and WW3 by purported level headed members of the Democratic leadership. I wasn't terribly surprised to see Ilhan Omar chirping about stupid shit but knowing that senior leaders are apparently so out of their wits that they feel the need to defend a vicious killer like Soleimani is simply unforgivable.

The depth of this Trump derangement continues to make me glad that there are other options come election day. I just don't see myself voting for very many incumbents when the entire establishment strategy is built on absurd lies.

Trump is a fucking lunatic but at least he's the people's lunatic. That's more than many senior Democrats can say.

There's literally nothing that they won't take the opposite stance of Trump on.

If Trump said cannibalism was bad the Democrats would be all for it.

theshep · Jan 8, 2020

Mr. Skeltal said:
Former jet engine mechanic, there's no way that engine debris from a screech failure (when the rotor blades interface with the stator case) could punch holes orthogonally into to the long axis of a 737 tail fin. When turbines catastrophically fail they tend to explode out along the plane of rotation, very rarely will debris deviate away from the plane of rotation unless detached from another portion of the plane after the initial compressor/fan/turbine failure.
If you've ever seen commercial or military aircraft powered by turbofan or turboprop engines then you've probably seen lines on the engine nacelles or fuselage that seem to have no indicating function.
These lines are present because during engine tests when the engine is installed in the aircraft, any rotor that undergoes screech will catastrophically fail and the debris will explode out of the aircraft from that indicator line in a plane of shrapnel and death.

Even accounting for relative airspeed, the shrapnel from a main engine failure would be going fast enough to tear through the rest of the aircraft in mostly straight lines away from the stricken engine, not magically curve like the Kennedy bullet to score a perpendicular potshot into the tail fin.

Yeah, I agree. What do you reckon about the image below? To me, it looks like the top section of one of the wings, with flap section closest to the photographer.

There's no conceivable way (in my mind) that an uncontained engine failure would cause that type of damage on the top of a wing, penetrating from below sure, but from the top?

Mr. Skeltal · Jan 8, 2020

theshep said:
Yeah, I agree. What do you reckon about the image below? To me, it looks like the top section of one of the wings, with flap section closest to the photographer.

There's no conceivable way (in my mind) that an uncontained engine failure would cause that type of damage on the top of a wing, penetrating from below sure, but from the top?

View attachment 1089398

The holes appear to be penetrating into the wing from above, perhaps above and aft. That section of wing appears to be the more distal part where the main ailerons are located. Not consistent with catastrophic turbine failure when said engine is mounted below and forward of the wing's leading edge, nearer to the flaps.

Edit: That piece of wreckage could also be one of the stabilizers on the tail of the aircraft, which almost certainly couldn't be struck by high speed engine ejecta. If this is a piece of tail wreckage then this would be the starboard stabilizer, going off of the orientation of presumed trim tabs and general shape. If the starboard stabilizer, then this may indicate an air burst detonation of the SAM in addition to the damage seen on the starboard side of the tail fin.
Unless you're flying a DC-10, no major airliner will experience damage on the tail flight control surfaces if one of the engines explodes.

I am just a guy speculating on the internet, by no means is my assessment accurate

Edit 2: Grammar

Pocket Dragoon · Jan 8, 2020

greengrilledcheese said:
Wouldn't that be mangled in the initial contact with the plane? Strange that it is just laying on the undisturbed ground around it. I would think that falling from thousands of feet would leave some damage to the fins and tear up the ground around it at a bare minimum.

SAMs don't normally detonate on impact, nor in a manner that most people imagine.

Depending on the model, they burst in a fashion that throws out a very specific pattern of shrapnel. Usually the only thing left of a missile after a target intercept is the tail & motor section, and which happens more often than not.

On active ranges where missile testing & practice shots occur, pieces like that are commonplace.

Кот Бегемот said:
I can not even hint at the powerlevel here because of family etc ... but just trust me, there was more than collision (*in regards to Kursk). As you can lookup, there were tests for new torpedoes that US was very interested in. There were some severe fuck ups that would serve no one to admit. We do know that "payout" was given for no reason to Russian federation and high ranking officials traveling shortly after. This is a case when truth would serve no one, only make ordinary people freak out.

Those same supercavitating torpedos are something that Iran has been very interested in, as they can be launched from their small attack boats or shore installations.

The things are scary as fuck, when you think about it; as they are essentially underwater guided missiles.

The Great Chandler · Jan 8, 2020

Granola Grenadine said:
ORANGE MAN BAD!!!!11

...No, really, that's pretty much the gist of it.

I knew a former friend who believes that Iran is the most democratic country in the Middle East and that everything else is Western propaganda. Of course, he's from California.

Jarolleon · Jan 8, 2020

Dom Cruise said:
They are, if it isn't clear by now that they exist to destroy America from the inside I don't know what to tell you.

They even defeated America in Vietnam, despite the US having a ludicrous amount of manpower thanks to the boomers coming of age.

ForTheHoard · Jan 8, 2020

LetThemEatCake said:
The Iranians are starting to explain too much. Sign of a liar.

Ukrainian plane crashes in Iran killing 176

There were many Iranian and Canadian citizens on board the Ukraine International Airlines' Boeing 737.

www.bbc.co.uk

Anyway, it's bullshit that a plane would instantly explode in midair if hit by a missile. Korean Air 902 was hit by a Soviet missile in 1978 when it wandered into Soviet airspace by accident. It that case the missile took off part of one of the wings and thr debris penetrated the fusilage. It suffered decompression and still flew on at least 40 minutes before made it down to land on a frozen lake in one piece, albeit with a couple of dead passengers from the decompression. It depends what part of the plane got hit and how high you are whether the whole thing falls apart instantly. Korean Air 007 didn't break up instantly either, even at 31,000ft.

Now that all the threads got merged and everything is out of context, I'm gonna say fuck 19 pages and just respond. Anti air weapons don't really use explosions to damage the aircraft, like you might see in the movies. A guided missile knows it's distance from the target, will explode a certain distance away, then shower the aircraft in shrapnel in the hopes of destroying an engine, severing major electrical functions, or rupturing the hydraulic flight control systems. Most aircraft have at least 1 back up hydraulic system, and due to the controlled descent, at least one of those systems remained intact. I don't know nearly as much about the comm equipment, but someone mentioned that radio contact had been lost. If that's true, it could have been damaged. The fire ball you see while the aircraft is still flying is a wing mounted engine. That is really common when shrapnel hits the engine. Most aircraft of this size use their hollow wings as the fuel tank, so the giant explosion when the bird hits the ground is the wing coming apart and dumping it's fuel on the burning engine.

Here's a generic example. Mind you that this is a Russian missile, and there's a lot of documentation saying that most of Iran's missiles are based on soviet design, but even the Russians say that Iran doesn't have the manufacturing capacities to make them correctly.

Edit: I want to add that this example shows an aircraft getting hit at high altitude, meaning you would expect projectiles to enter the aircraft from the belly and exit through the top. Most of the images of damage I've seen posted shows the entry holes being on top of the wing and on the vertical stabilator (upper tail). If the aircraft in question had JUST taken off, the tail section and the top of the wings would be exposed to the ground, making it possible for an AA weapon to do the damage we're seeing in the pictures (upper fuselage, vert stab, top of the wings). If the images posted aren't mirrored, I'd wager a guess that the projectile exploded on the upper aft/starboard section of the plane. Makes a lot of sense if the plane is ascending and the missile was fired from either behind the aircraft or along the side as it passed by.

Pocket Dragoon · Jan 8, 2020

ForTheHoard said:
Now that all the threads got merged and everything is out of context, I'm gonna say fuck 19 pages and just respond. Anti air weapons don't really use explosions to damage the aircraft, like you might see in the movies. A guided missile knows it's distance from the target, will explode a certain distance away, then shower the aircraft in shrapnel in the hopes of destroying an engine, severing major electrical functions, or rupturing the hydraulic flight control systems. Most aircraft have at least 1 back up hydraulic system, and due to the controlled descent, at least one of those systems remained intact. I don't know nearly as much about the comm equipment, but someone mentioned that radio contact had been lost. If that's true, it could have been damaged. The fire ball you see while the aircraft is still flying is a wing mounted engine. That is really common when shrapnel hits the engine. Most aircraft of this size use their hollow wings as the fuel tank, so the giant explosion when the bird hits the ground is the wing coming apart and dumping it's fuel on the burning engine.

It's almost like.... shades of TWA-800, amirite??

:tomgirl:

Iwasamwillbe · Jan 8, 2020

So ultimately, the US ended up completely BTFOing Iran without having to do much at all. Or, alternatively, Iran BTFO'd itself without much US intervention.

Iran has clearly shown itself to be a non-threat to any great power, even in the Middle East, in a straight-up military conflict, let alone war. Their global standing must be in tatters now.

Sho'nuff · Jan 8, 2020

Pocket Dragoon said:
Honestly, I figure the Kursk was an embarrassing own-goal, along the lines of the US Navy's recent mishaps with exceptionally exceptional collisions. Didn't the Russians have a couple more recent sub mishaps as well, not long after Kursk?

And if I recall, the Russians declined far more aid & assistance from the West in regards to technical & logistical support than they accepted. Not that I blame them though, on state-secret level, as well as a matter of pride. I'm sure the US Navy would've loved to have been able to blame their fuckups on mechanical faults, and not let slip the fact that Navy seamen were too busy watching hentai or blowing each other in their racks to stand watch.

Kursk sank due to a torpedo exploding before being launched, it was a known issue for the type of torpedoes they used for training.

The incidents in the Asia sea area were due to a really fucking stupid "modern" piloting equipment that the Navy replaced the traditional wheel on all of its Destroyer class ships. The system made little sense and the navy personnel that were using them had minimal (less than an hour) of training on the equipment. Cant remember the specifics around the first collision, but the second collisions, the captain decided to use 2 navy personnel to control the ship in heavy fog. The main station let's you split controls so one person can steer while a second can handle propulsion, during the set up they accidentally transferred rudder control to a 3rd entirely different station, so neither of the 2 piloting stations could control the ship, and I believe the propulsion control was changed correctly, but the screen layout didn't have the controls visible and no one could get the controls to show up on the screen.

So yeah, those poor bastards got royally fucked by the Navy, both in terms of not being trained at all on a new piece of equipment, but then after the incidents the navy fucked them and ruined their careers.

Sho'nuff · Jan 8, 2020

Iwasamwillbe said:
So ultimately, the US ended up completely BTFOing Iran without having to do much at all. Or, alternatively, Iran BTFO'd itself without much US intervention.

Iran has clearly shown itself to be a non-threat to any great power, even in the Middle East, in a straight-up military conflict, let alone war. Their global standing must be in tatters now.

I think Iran assumed it was going to gain international support, but no one outside of the Shia faith gives a fuck about Soleimani. They probably felt really lonely when no other country said a damn thing about our strike on Soleimani and threw a temper tantrum with some missiles.

They've also managed to make Trump look like the most rational person in the world.

War Iran-United States Military Crisis of 2020 - US Baghdad embassy under siege, rocket fire in US Baghdad green zone, Ukrainian Airlines flight 752 crash, and more!

Christ Cried

All of my posts are in Minecraft

theshep

Feline Supremacist

Leibowitz

Bless me Father, I ate a lizard.

List of submarine incidents since 2000 - Wikipedia

Mr. Skeltal

Bone Poet

Dom Cruise

Granola Grenadine

Rejected Burger King Kids Club character

who dare wins?

does Geneva convention apply to weebs an furfags?

Spiteful Crow

第六天の魔王

Dom Cruise

theshep

Mr. Skeltal

Bone Poet

Pocket Dragoon

Инициатива трахает инициатора

The Great Chandler

"Pickleless girls don't marry virgin boys"

Jarolleon

ForTheHoard

Discount code "COPE" for 10% off

Ukrainian plane crashes in Iran killing 176

Pocket Dragoon

Инициатива трахает инициатора

Iwasamwillbe

Austro-Bohemian-Flemish-Cretan-Japanese Mischling

Sho'nuff

Choppin' your pizzeria.

Sho'nuff

Choppin' your pizzeria.