Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

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There are a lot of very dumb conspiracy theorists on this forum. The fact that this is primarily confined to China is a very good sign and that the death rate isn’t so high.

There's no real point in speculation, but I guess it's fun for people. We don't have a whole lot of reliable data on 2019-nCoV yet.

The most relevant info for me were the clinical findings. 2019-nCoV doesn't seem to share SARS' propensity for causing cytokine storms. That's good, since cytokine storms are what kill healthy young people.

Unfortunately it has a high R_0 and still kills old or immunocompromised people. That's bad, since an outbreak could easily turn a long-term care facility into a cemetery. That's who I'm mostly worried about at this point.
 
The ignorance displayed on this forum thread over the consuming of bats and other animals is alarming. And as to the origin of this virus, wild guesses based on nothing.
I’ve seen you shilling for the Chinese and their government time and time again in this thread and it may sound a bit paranoid but I have to ask: with your new account creation date and obsession with this thread are you a legitimate CCP shill or just a troll?
 
The ignorance displayed on this forum thread over the consuming of bats and other animals is alarming. And as to the origin of this virus, wild guesses based on nothing.
Is this a troll? It has to be a troll.

There's ample evidence that bats harbor more serious diseases contractible to humans than other animals. See Bats as ‘special’ reservoirs for emerging zoonotic pathogens (Brook 2015), and Host and viral traits predict zoonotic spillover from mammals (Olival et al. 2017).

The reason bats are vectors for such severe disease is likely related to how their bodies and cells function in order to accomodate flight.
ironically that last paper came out of Wuhan lol
 
Whaaaaaaaaat, wild speculation on the internet?

People see something, they discuss it and speculate. And most of the speculation is from articles, social media, and unverifiable information. Unless you're President Pooh Bear in China, you have very little idea what the details of the situation actually are.
Virologists have weighed in on it with some fairly decent educated guesses on it - and given the consensus the origin of the virus is within a reasonable range of "certain enough". I think what a lot of people are making a leap to is in relation to how the virus got off the (probable) bat and into the human pool. There are millions of bats with many viruses that wouldn't and won't do much to anyone. Somehow ONE BAT out of MILLIONS - a single bat - hit the virus jackpot with a single virus with a single mutation. It happens all the time, but this time the virus survived and the numbers grew in this one bat (sometimes the genetic mutation doesn't favor survival and the virus is unsuccessful at "reproduction".)

How that virus then entered the human chain is what is unknown and may never be known. Bat Soup, bat fries and bat tacos are not a likely vector. After all, we use Bat guano as a soil additive here and elsewhere. Billions of bats have been eaten in the last 50 years and no 2019-nCoV.

A more probable vector is that a bat was flying around, minding its own business and did a shit. It probably landed on some harmless food like a steak, fish or other meat for sale and was taken home by someone. They took the meat, washed it, cooked it and it was harmless. It might have even been a bat - but the viruses within were killed when it was cooked...what got them is the following...

But their hands that touched the unseen bat poop on the flesh of the meat was their undoing. How many of us at home prepare food and we know with certainty "its OK to grab that knife, I'll throw it is the dishwasher later" after touching some uncooked meat? You're already done, the virus has already gotten on to your body. If you've got a cut, bingo, if you brush the hair away from your eye, there it is. Its got a home.

I guess what I am saying is that Bat Soup has been eaten billions of times. We can look for more reasonable explanations - as is usually the case with a virus.

But regardless, know with certainty that at the time I write this, dozens of bats in China at this exact moment have a mutated virus on them as deadly as 2019-nCoV or far worse, but their mutated viruses will never enter the human population and go extinct, while some just might. The same goes for birds. Right now there is a mutated bird flu virus that can devastate the Earths population on one of the billions of birds, but it likely will never be given the vector to jump to us. Then again it just might today fly over your kids football field and do a shit, and as your kids play, they pick it up off the ground before the UV light kills the virus.

Even with no bats being eaten in china, it will not stop the virus. In Australia bats are everywhere, and if they one day started producing viruses with lethal combinations, Sydney in Australia would be a ghost town in a week. a virus always needs to get lucky. And congrats to them, they sometimes do.
 
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Virologists have weighed in on it with some fairly decent educated guesses on it - and given the consensus the origin of the virus is within a reasonable range of "certain enough". I think what a lot of people are making a leap to is in relation to how the virus got off the (probable) bat and into the human pool. There are millions of bats with many viruses that wouldn't and won't do much to anyone. Somehow ONE BAT out of MILLIONS - a single bat - hit the virus jackpot with a single virus with a single mutation. It happens all the time, but this time the virus survived and the numbers grew in this one bat (sometimes the genetic mutation doesn't favor survival and the virus is unsuccessful at "reproduction".)

How that virus then entered the human chain is what is unknown and may never be known. Bat Soup, bat fries and bat tacos are not a likely vector. After all, we use Bat guano as a soil additive here and elsewhere. Billions of bats have been eaten in the last 50 years and no 2019-nCoV.

A more probable vector is that a bat was flying around, minding its own business and did a shit. It probably landed on some harmless food like a steak, fish or other meat for sale and was taken home by someone. They took the meat, washed it, cooked it and it was harmless. It might have even been a bat - but the viruses within were killed when it was cooked...what got them is the following...

But their hands that touched the unseen bat poop on the flesh of the meat was their undoing. How many of us at home prepare food and we know with certainty "its OK to grab that knife, I'll throw it is the dishwasher later" after touching some uncooked meat? You're already done, the virus has already gotten on to your body. If you've got a cut, bingo, if you brush the hair away from your eye, there it is. Its got a home.

I guess what I am saying is that Bat Soup has been eaten billions of times. We can look for more reasonable explanations - as is usually the case with a virus.

But regardless, know with certainty that at the time I write this, dozens of bats in China at this exact moment have a mutated virus on them as deadly as 2019-nCoV or far worse, but their mutated viruses will never enter the human population and go extinct, while some just might. The same goes for birds. Right now there is a mutated bird flu virus that can devastate the Earths population on one of the billions of birds, but it likely will never be given the vector to jump to us. Then again it just might today fly over your kids football field and do a shit, and as your kids play, they pick it up off the ground before the UV light kills the virus.

Even with no bats being eaten in china, it will not stop the virus. In Australia bats are everywhere, and if they one day started producing viruses with lethal combinations, Sydney in Australia would be a ghost town in a week. a virus always needs to get lucky. And congrats to them, they sometimes do.


Still, eating bats is just idiotic based on common sense. Especially idiotic is to do it when you have anything else you could eat, which is the case in China.
 
Still, eating bats is just idiotic based on common sense. Especially idiotic is to do it when you have anything else you could eat, which is the case in China.

gwailo not understand that eating bat is good for healthy

The vector isn't really eating bats per se, it's the fact that you have wild animals confined in crowded markets with no sanitation standards. If there were no demand for bat meat, these markets wouldn't exist.
 
Still, eating bats is just idiotic based on common sense. Especially idiotic is to do it when you have anything else you could eat, which is the case in China.

IMO. The argument is silly because a lucky poop? from a bat just deciding to flap his ass over a human market?

The original cases were tracked back to a market iirc. It's far more likely that cross contamination occurred from someone handling a live or dead bat and touched meat, or bat blood and touching meat, or touching a terrified live bat who then shit themselves and they just wiped their hand off and went on selling at the market or a possible purchaser of that infected material handled it but didn't purchase and it was carried to whatever else they touched or they did buy and bought that meat home after handling it and never washed their hands on their way home, spreading it on everything they touched thereafter.

This person is trying to gaslight. A lucky poop? lmao, get out. If this was caused by anything 'naturally' it's the disgusting lack of hygiene and no sanitation standards in open wet markets and China's choice to eat animals that they have no reason to eat, not because of one magically convenient and coincidental bat. It's just like shark fins, status food with a greater opportunity to harm than any good could be gleaned from consumption.
 
Virologists have weighed in on it with some fairly decent educated guesses on it - and given the consensus the origin of the virus is within a reasonable range of "certain enough". I think what a lot of people are making a leap to is in relation to how the virus got off the (probable) bat and into the human pool. There are millions of bats with many viruses that wouldn't and won't do much to anyone. Somehow ONE BAT out of MILLIONS - a single bat - hit the virus jackpot with a single virus with a single mutation. It happens all the time, but this time the virus survived and the numbers grew in this one bat (sometimes the genetic mutation doesn't favor survival and the virus is unsuccessful at "reproduction".)

How that virus then entered the human chain is what is unknown and may never be known. Bat Soup, bat fries and bat tacos are not a likely vector. After all, we use Bat guano as a soil additive here and elsewhere. Billions of bats have been eaten in the last 50 years and no 2019-nCoV.

A more probable vector is that a bat was flying around, minding its own business and did a shit. It probably landed on some harmless food like a steak, fish or other meat for sale and was taken home by someone. They took the meat, washed it, cooked it and it was harmless. It might have even been a bat - but the viruses within were killed when it was cooked...what got them is the following...

But their hands that touched the unseen bat poop on the flesh of the meat was their undoing. How many of us at home prepare food and we know with certainty "its OK to grab that knife, I'll throw it is the dishwasher later" after touching some uncooked meat? You're already done, the virus has already gotten on to your body. If you've got a cut, bingo, if you brush the hair away from your eye, there it is. Its got a home.

I guess what I am saying is that Bat Soup has been eaten billions of times. We can look for more reasonable explanations - as is usually the case with a virus.

But regardless, know with certainty that at the time I write this, dozens of bats in China at this exact moment have a mutated virus on them as deadly as 2019-nCoV or far worse, but their mutated viruses will never enter the human population and go extinct, while some just might. The same goes for birds. Right now there is a mutated bird flu virus that can devastate the Earths population on one of the billions of birds, but it likely will never be given the vector to jump to us. Then again it just might today fly over your kids football field and do a shit, and as your kids play, they pick it up off the ground before the UV light kills the virus.

Even with no bats being eaten in china, it will not stop the virus. In Australia bats are everywhere, and if they one day started producing viruses with lethal combinations, Sydney in Australia would be a ghost town in a week. a virus always needs to get lucky. And congrats to them, they sometimes do.
You're greatly underestimating the ability of bats to carry viruses, and the ability of those viruses to spill over into humans. Bats can hold many viruses at once and still appear completely healthy. One of those viruses might target a cell structure in bats which is homologously seen in human cells (and we know for a fact that some of them do), and that reservoir is shared with other viruses infecting the same cell. Boom, now you have a new virus which is passable to humans, and it didn't require analogous reinvention through point mutations. Bats are very social animals that have close contact with each other, so I don't know why you're acting like viruses in bats are destined to stay in the same organism it first appeared and not spread among the population.

The exact details of the origin are unknown, but we know they're from bats. I think it's a weirder idea to try and come up with some scenario without evidence where the stars align in just the right way so that all of the bat-borne viruses we've seen in humans were contracted through completely indirect methods (esp because bats are hibernating in Asia rn, they aren't going to be pooping much... not to say it's impossible, but you're making up a backstory with zero evidence) rather than just accepting that regardless maybe people shouldn't be eating wild, fucking bats.
 
The ignorance displayed on this forum thread over the consuming of bats and other animals is alarming. And as to the origin of this virus, wild guesses based on nothing.

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"It's perfectly healthy, bro."
 
America has bats too. Do we have weird new bat diseases all the time? No. And it’s not from lack of contact, because every year there’s multiple cases of people needing post-exposure rabies prophylactic shots because they came in contact with bats.

Do major Chinese cities even have bats casually flying around like American cities do? I met Chinese students at my university who were fascinated by the squirrels and geese because you don’t see any wildlife at all on the streets of major Chinese cities. The bats they found that had a disease similar to the Wu Flu were in a cave in Yunnan, which is a long, long way from Wuhan, and also somewhere people might be going to catch game to sell to city slickers.
 
An outbreak of bird flu, H5N1, in Hubei province. So far 17000 chickens have been culled. This can be spread to humans but the chances of that are low, the main concern is poultry might get in on the fun.


Haven't they also had African swine flu? They culled a shit ton of pigs as well, so in the end they had to deal with pork shortages.
 
IMO. The argument is silly because a lucky poop? from a bat just deciding to flap his ass over a human market?

The original cases were tracked back to a market iirc. It's far more likely that cross contamination occurred from someone handling a live or dead bat and touched meat, or bat blood and touching meat, or touching a terrified live bat who then shit themselves and they just wiped their hand off and went on selling at the market or a possible purchaser of that infected material handled it but didn't purchase and it was carried to whatever else they touched or they did buy and bought that meat home after handling it and never washed their hands on their way home, spreading it on everything they touched thereafter.

This person is trying to gaslight. A lucky poop? lmao, get out. If this was caused by anything 'naturally' it's the disgusting lack of hygiene and no sanitation standards in open wet markets and China's choice to eat animals that they have no reason to eat, not because of one magically convenient and coincidental bat. It's just like shark fins, status food with a greater opportunity to harm than any good could be gleaned from consumption.
I agree with you. But again by handling a bat is not the same as eating bat soup. The same thing could happen with a pig. the point I was making is that people are pointing out the action of eating bats as a disgusting habit that caused this virus to spread; but the habit of eating or not eating bats doesn't prevent a virus like this from coming into existence. It's going to happen through bats, birds and swine. Whats important is how we deal with the outbreaks, because trying to prevent them from ever happening is futile.
 
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