Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

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I am sad about Italy, WHERE THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSED TO GET MY IMPORTED FOOD PRODUCTS NOW
Yeah what about my limoncello torrone polenta and prosecco? Oh wait I know how to make limoncello polenta and torrone. but it'll suck not coming from nonas kitchen. Oh well Rome has to fall a second time I guess. Italys getting raped like an Italian who're by corona Chan.
 
Two new articles, i've italicized some interesting snippets.

New data from China buttress fears about high coronavirus fatality rate, WHO expert says
By HELEN BRANSWELL @HelenBranswell
FEBRUARY 25, 2020

One of the hopes of people watching China’s coronavirus outbreak was that the alarming picture of its lethality is probably exaggerated because a lot of mild cases are likely being missed.

But on Tuesday, a World Health Organization expert suggested that does not appear to be the case. Bruce Aylward, who led an international mission to China to learn about the virus and China’s response, said the specialists did not see evidence that a large number of mild cases of the novel disease called Covid-19 are evading detection.

“So I know everybody’s been out there saying, ‘Whoa, this thing is spreading everywhere and we just can’t see it, tip of the iceberg.’ But the data that we do have don’t support that,” Aylward said during a briefing for journalists at WHO’s Geneva headquarters.

Getting a handle on how many people have actually been infected is crucial to assessing how dangerous this virus is. During the early days of an explosive outbreak with a new pathogen, it is hugely challenging to look beyond the people streaming into hospitals for care to see whether there are many more at home with a mild cold or manageable flu-like illness.

If large numbers of mild or virtually symptom-free cases are evading detection, that would suggest that estimates of the proportion of people who might end up in ICUs or might die during a Covid-19 epidemic would be lower than what has been seen to date in China.

But if there aren’t large numbers of uncounted cases, the severity seen in China is what the rest of the world should expect as the virus moves to new locations, especially if it spreads to the degree seen in Hubei province, where the outbreak began.

“What [the data] support is that sure, there may be a few asymptomatic cases … but there’s probably not huge transmission beyond what you can actually see clinically,” Aylward said.

The claim was quickly challenged by an infectious diseases expert who serves on a committee that advises the WHO’s health emergencies program.

Gary Kobinger, director of the Infectious Disease Research Center at Laval University in Quebec, said it would be highly unusual for there not to be mild or symptom-free cases that are being missed. He pointed to the fact that outbreaks have popped up in countries far from China — including Iran and Italy — because people with mild infections were not detected and traveled to other places.

“There are mild cases that are undetected. This is why it’s spreading. Otherwise it would not be spreading because we would know where those cases are and they would be contained and that would be the end of it,” said Kobinger, who insisted that mild, undetected infections cannot be ruled out until people who haven’t been diagnosed with the illness can be tested for antibodies to the virus.

Those kinds of tests, called serology tests, are just becoming available in China, Aylward said.

“As long as we do not have good serology data, I think that it is completely speculative to say that there are no undetected cases,” Kobinger said.

Aylward pointed to an analysis from Guangdong province suggesting that, at least there, most of the infections were coming to the attention of health authorities.

When the virus started to spread in Guangdong — the province where the 2002-2003 SARS outbreak began — worried people flooded fever clinics to be tested. Of 320,000 tests performed, just under 0.5% were positive for the virus at the peak of transmission there, he said — which suggests that only 1 case out of 200 was being missed.

Transmission of the virus has subsided in Guangdong, and the number of positive tests at the fever clinics has declined; now only about 1 in 5,000 people tested at the fever clinics is positive for the virus, he said.

Aylward said that across China, about 80% of cases are mild, about 14% are severe, and about 6% become critically ill. The case fatality rate — the percentage of known infected people who die — is between 2% and 4% in Hubei province, and 0.7% in other parts of China, he said.


The lower rate outside of Hubei is likely due to the draconian social distancing measures China has put in place to try to slow spread of the virus. Other parts of China have not had the huge explosion of cases seen in Hubei, Aylward said.

A case fatality rate of between 2% to 4% rivals and even exceeds that of the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic, which is estimated to have killed upwards of 50 million people. Even a case fatality rate of 0.7% — which means 7 out of every 1,000 infected people would die — is sobering. It is seven times the fatality rate for seasonal flu, which is estimated to kill between 290,000 and 650,000 people a year globally.

Italy changes virus count methods at UN agency's urging
Italy is changing how it reports coronavirus cases and who will get tested in ways that could lower the country's caseload even as an outbreak centered in northern Italy spreads in Europe
By
FRANCES D'EMILIO and NICOLE WINFIELD Associated Press
February 27, 2020, 9:07 AM
2 min read

ROME -- With tourism tanking and panic rising, Italy is changing how it reports coronavirus cases and who will get tested in ways that could lower the country's caseload even as an outbreak centered in northern Italy spreads in Europe, officials said Thursday.

Italian authorities plan from now on to distinguish between people who test positive for the virus and patients showing symptoms of COVID-19, the illness the virus causes, since the majority of the people in Italy with confirmed infections aren’t actually sick.


As of Thursday, Italy reported 528 cases and 12 confirmed deaths from the virus, the most of any country outside Asia. All the patients who died were elderly, sick with other ailments or both.

At the urging of the World Health Organization, Italy also is distinguishing between positive virus tests reported at a regional level and results confirmed by its National Institute of Health. The U.N. health agency insisted that only nationally certified cases are considered official.

“The cases that emerge from the regions are still considered suspect and unconfirmed,” Walter Ricciardi, a WHO adviser to the Italian government, said. "You will see that in the next few days, there will be outbreaks in other countries, too. But the other countries are much more rigorous” in their reporting methods.

Italy’s civil protection chief Angelo Borrelli said the Thursday count of 528 cases came from regional reports. Only 282 cases were certified by the national health institute, but that was all the test results it analyzed, Borrelli said.

Official certification therefore wasn’t expected to significantly alter the overall numbers in Italy once they were all counted, Borrelli said.

Out of the 528 cases, 159 infected people have required hospital treatment and 37 were in intensive care, while the vast majority isolated themselves at home in self-quarantine, Borrelli said.

The government is seeking to calm fears about the outbreak, which has seen countries issue travel advisories warning their citizens to avoid visiting hard-hit Lombardy and Veneto regions, which have seen the most cases.

The Italian government has lashed out at what it called alarmist and inaccurate reporting about the degree of contagion and level of panic, and insisted Italy is a safe country and ready to receive visitors.

---

Aren't the claims in the first story contradicted by the claims in the second, or am I missing something? Help me out here.
Who gives a fuck about China at this point? I'm far more concerned with how deadly it seems to be in Iran and how 20 year olds are dying of it there.
 
Yeah what about my limoncello torrone polenta and prosecco? Oh wait I know how to make limoncello polenta and torrone. but it'll suck not coming from nonas kitchen. Oh well some has to fall a second time I guess.
What about my Pecorino Romano! I can't live without it, I can substitute Serrano for prosciutto but Pecorino is essential.
 
Who gives a fuck about China at this point? I'm far more concerned with how deadly it seems to be in Iran and how 20 year olds are dying of it there.
This young people are getting hit the hardest; could it be lack of access or genetic disposition? It's not like Irans gomna have detailed reports.
 
Who gives a fuck about China at this point? I'm far more concerned with how deadly it seems to be in Iran and how 20 year olds are dying of it there.
Iran's handling if the disease is like a repeat of the Iraqi information minister telling us there are no tanks in Baghdad as they roll by in the background. It's got to be the only country where half their government already has it.
 
So? If the Virus has mutated there that still means it is going to slam into the US harder; Are we seriously going to ignore the fact US Citizens will hide having the virus to make it to work and have to not pay 3000$ fucking bucks to confirm they don't have it?

What are you talking about? Where did it say it mutated? Twenty year olds died in China, too. They have a shitty socialized health system that is always understaffed, just like China. I don't know where you are getting the idea that it has mutated.
 
I wonder what theme parks like Disneyland are going to do. Disneyland is very popular after the winter and that's when all the tourists go out or fly to California to go there. That many people crowding the park at once and waiting for long amounts of time in lines as they stand back to back is going to make the whole thing messy and spread infection. That's what happened when Measles spread in Disneyland.
 
I wonder what theme parks like Disneyland are going to do. Disneyland is very popular after the winter and that's when all the tourists go out or fly to California to go there. That many people crowding the park at once and waiting for long amounts of time in lines as they stand back to back is going to make the whole thing messy and spread infection. That's what happened when Measles spread in Disneyland.
While unlikely, it would be fucking hilarious if Corona-chan’s kiss of death just straight up wipes out a quarter of Disney’s revenue by tanking park attendance.
 
I wonder what theme parks like Disneyland are going to do. Disneyland is very popular after the winter and that's when all the tourists go out or fly to California to go there. That many people crowding the park at once and waiting for long amounts of time in lines as they stand back to back is going to make the whole thing messy and spread infection. That's what happened when Measles spread in Disneyland.
Probably Disney would try and make a few bucks out of it selling Mickey mouse faces masks and hand sanitizer buts that's if it gets to that. way things are heading it's going to spiral quickly.
 
Who gives a fuck about China at this point? I'm far more concerned with how deadly it seems to be in Iran and how 20 year olds are dying of it there.

Iran is probably much worse off than China in it's ability to address this. As has been mentioned earlier in the thread Italy, South Korea and Japan will likely be the accurate data set.

I'm surprised there is no news of it ravaging Africa as of yet as most countries there probably have ziltch in the the way of response ability.
 
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Oh shit
 
Probably Disney would try and make a few bucks out of it selling Mickey mouse faces masks and hand sanitizer buts that's if it gets to that. way things are heading it's going to spiral quickly.

I can actually see them doing that. The crazy thing to me is that Disneyland tickets are ridiculously overpriced and those tourists tend to stay there for about a week, while staying in the Disneyland resort hotels. People are going to be spending a ton of money to get sick.

While unlikely, it would be fucking hilarious if Corona-chan’s kiss of death just straight up wipes out a quarter of Disney’s revenue by tanking park attendance.

It would be pretty funny considering how much they overcharge people.
 
Just returned from Costco. All looked normal, no sign of panic buying. Bought extra bottle of allergy medicine. Was on sale and I'll use it anyway. In this area, believe people are so used to earthquakes and massive wildfires that the WuFlu isn't that big a deal.

Plan to get a few extra things at the commissary Saturday.

Throwing out another reminder to RELAX. Keep things in perspective. Many more people die every year from the "regular" flu than from the WuFlu so far. If you are in reasonably good health (no immune system issues or respiratory problems) don't think there's that much to worry about. Keep an eye out for the elderly, pregnant women and babies, though. Cannot speak for every country but believe most countries' medical system and sanitary standards exceed China's.

In my opinion, if the CCP had used a lick of sense in managing the virus outbreak properly the virus would have been a couple paragraphs in the paper/on line. As things are, it's China's Chernobyl. This is on top of the long-running African Swine Flu, which has killed millions of pigs, and now an avian flu, killing poultry.

This has shown the world two very important things.

First, the Chinese are not only ten feet tall, but have feet of shit. Everything in China, and some very critical things indeed, are not what they should be for a country with pretensions to greatness. Problems I see are structural and endemic to a highly authoritarian system. China appears strong, but is brittle, and the CCP ossified.

Second, it was the dumbest fucking thing on record for the world to put so many production eggs and material sourcing eggs in the Chinese basket, even dumber than just-in-time inventory management. Repeat after me: The longer the supply chain, the more fragile it is. Got it? Fully expect the exodus from China by foreign manufacturers to continue. Expect wise companies to find second sources for critical materials. Also expect wise manufacturers to find or make room for 2-4 weeks' worth of materials/parts/subassemblies. Expect wise retailers of Chinese-made goods to at least look into expanding storage space for inventory. Any company for which this hasn't been a wakeup call is exceptional.
Agree with everything you say. What worries me the most is the health of my grandparents and the panic that might be caused by the virus being constantly in the news. We've had a few cases where non issues become panics and you've got people hoarding food out of fear
 
On Twitter some cleric there died but I haven't found any other sources yet.

And a female soccer player.

Was it really a woman or a 'woman'? Hard to tell with athletes in certain locales these days

As long as it doesn't affect my orange Fanta I'm good.

Coronachan loves orange fanta and encourages you to 'drink up!'

the irony is that boomers are the ones most at risk yet as far as i've seen it's not the boomers freaking out it's more gen Z and millennials freaking out about this while boomers just laugh and talk about bird and swine flu and how "nothing is going to happen i'ts just the flu"
"Boomers" have been through brainwashing cold war shit you wouldn't believe. I'm genx, and I remember nuclear disaster drills still happening in primary school. They were traumatized as children and don't want to think about it anymore. I pity them more than hate them.
 
This young people are getting hit the hardest; could it be lack of access or genetic disposition? It's not like Irans gomna have detailed reports.
We have no way of knowing yet and I wouldn't trust any Iranian data but it's possible young people are more likely to suffer from cytokine storms due to having a healthy immune system.
I'm surprised there is no news of it ravaging Africa as of yet as most countries there probably have ziltch in the the way of response ability.
Who would notice if it did?
 
First case in the Netherlands


5 cases in Sweden


3 more in Norway


14 more in Germany


Still no patient zero found in Austria

A 72-year-old Austrian is seriously ill, all tests for COVID-19 are positive.

The man had been in the hospital for ten days without a diagnosis. He had unprotected contact with staff and visitors and was in three different wards during his hospital stay.


 
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