Thoughts about DSP's Psychology - Dr Fred Freud's Office

[actually]

Are you trolling?

Wait, did you not make $1-2 million being shit at video games and making poopoopee boobie jokes in 50-100 videos a day and then piss it away to such an extent that you had to file for bankruptcy?

 

[Iron Father]

DSP is about as far from normal as someone can be without violating the commonly adhered to boundaries of society. No normal person tells an old childhood story about not getting the toy he wants and rants into the camera "I TOLD YOU TO BUY THE FIGURE!"

He didn't know how to make cup fucking noodles. When he moved from his kahndo he left it full of random shit for others to deal with. He's had like 2 jahbs his entire life. He thinks window shopping = a tough day running errands.

He thinks eating out is cheaper than cooking at home lmfao. Anybody who thinks DSP has had a normal life is just exposing how exceptional and detached from reality they are themselves. Oof.

 

[Pepsi-Cola]

Tell me which of these criteria for narcissism personality disorder Phil doesn't meet by any reasonable measure or fuck off with the edgelording. From the Mayo Clinic itself:

I don't see how it's "edgelording" to point out that it's probably hyperbolic to say that phil suffers from psychopathy. Immediately you can see the implicit bias when a forum designed to make fun of Phil has a psychology thread on him and people immediately latch on to the 2 worst mental disorders possible. I'm sure if you look for the best anecdotal instances of behavior you could find, you could prove Phil has any number of mental health problems. Although, if we use occams razor it's probably just the fact that Phil is a fat 100% italien idiot with a penchant for greed.

If people don't like to get meta like that and you don't feel like it's pertinent to discussion that's fine, but I think it's something worth thinking about.

 

[Iron Father]

Still avoiding the question hahaha. Just moralfagging for no reason at this point.

 

[actually]

I don't see how it's "edgelording" to point out that it's probably hyperbolic to say that phil suffers from psychopathy.

I agree with this statement, but I don't think psychopathy and narcissism are automatically conjoined in a person. This site is not the mayo clinic, but it lists what's necessary according to the DSM 5 for someone to be considered a narcissitic sociopath (different from psychopath--this is just the first one I found so far):

"Antisocial personality disorder is "a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others, occurring since age 15 years," according to the DSM-5.

In addition, an individual must show at least three of the following:

• The repeated failure to follow social norms resulting in grounds for arrest
• Engaging in deceitfulness (lying, using aliases, not paying off debts)
• Impulsivity and not planning ahead; moving around constantly
• Irritability and aggressiveness (resulting in physical fights/assaults)
• Reckless disregard or concern for the safety of other people
• Chronic irresponsibility reflected by a continued failure to maintain a job, finish school or stay on top of financial commitments
• Lack of remorse about hurting others (indifferent or rationalizes)"

Phil meets some of them (I would argue deceitfulness for sure and arguably the irresponsibility given his bankruptcy). But he doesn't really meet any of the rest and thus it would be hard for me to agree he's a sociopath.

Here's the psychopathy checklist. I'm not going to score it because I recognize I have an implicit bias:

"Psychopathy is a spectrum disorder and can be diagnosed using the 20-item Hare Psychopathy Checklist, which features traits such as lack of empathy, pathological lying, and impulsivity, each scored on a three-point scale based on whether the item does not apply (0), applies to a certain extent (1), or fully applies (2) to the individual. The bar for clinical psychopathy is a score of 30 or higher; serial killer Ted Bundy scored 39.

• glibness/superficial charm
• grandiose sense of self-worth
• need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
• pathological lying
• conning/manipulative
• lack of remorse or guilt
• shallow affect (i.e., reduced emotional responses)
• callous/lack of empathy
• parasitic lifestyle
• poor behavioral controls
• promiscuous sexual behavior
• early behavioral problems
• lack of realistic, long-term goals
• impulsivity
• irresponsibility
• failure to accept responsibility for one's own actions
• many short-term marital relationships
• juvenile delinquency
• revocation of conditional release (from prison)
• criminal versatility (i.e., commits diverse types of crimes)"

A quick look suggests he would meet some of these, but I doubt he would get anywhere close to the 30 required to be a clinical psychopath.

I still argue, however, that he means literally every single checkpoint for a narcissist.

 

[Richard Harrow]

I'm sure if you look for the best anecdotal instances of behavior you could find, you could prove Phil has any number of mental health problems. Although, if we use occams razor it's probably just the fact that Phil is a fat 100% italien idiot with a penchant for greed.

Look, you make a good point in that most of us (if any) are not doctors nor are we certified in making such an assessment. However, in our defense I'd like to point out that we see blatant similarities between his behavior and the criteria for narcissism. We're simply making ballpark observations based on the correlation previously mentioned. It's for the sake of discussion and conversation all of which I find incredibly entertaining. If I powerleveled to 9999 then I'm sure we kiwis could do the same to me (and they'd probably be right about a majority of it). Just kick back and don't take it too seriously. No one here, as far as I can tell, is minimizing the seriousness of mental illness. We're just an inquisitive bunch.

 

[Pepsi-Cola]

No one here, as far as I can tell, is minimizing the seriousness of mental illness. We're just an inquisitive bunch.

I totally agree. My point is basically that Phil, while totally flawed, is probably just really stupid.

I think everyone can agree that playing video games for a living probably didn't help him grow as a human being at all.

 

[Iron Father]

I think everyone can agree that playing video games for a living probably didn't help him grow as a human being at all.

He was already a full grown adult by the time he started his "career" as a gamer.

 

[Dimetrodon]

He was already a full grown adult by the time he started his "career" as a gamer.

Pretty sure he meant that Phil didn't do anything to improve himself or try to develop a better understanding of the world. Fuck, he didn't even get better at the thing he does for a living.

 

[Iron Father]

Fuck, he didn't even get better at the thing he does for a living.

Begging?

 

[WiFi Assassination]

Warning for this post 1) I guess it's a little bit of vague powerleveling but we have people on here who are being treated as confirmed sources for the bankruptcy proceedings so take this for what ever you deem it being worth 2) I skimmed the thread and am more addressing really bad armchair psychiatry more than I'm diagnosing him (though I'm gonna throw that out there at the end anyway). It's nearly impossible to really understand and diagnose some of these pathologies without having interacted with someone with them.

It's just ethically shitty for a professional to diagnose someone with a psychopathology without seeing them in office which is why back in 2016 when a bunch of docs came out and said "B-B-B-BUT TRUMP HAS NPD!!!" it was really shitty despite being one of the most open and shut textbook cases possible. But touching the stove that is DSP's broke brain isn't an attempt use armchair psych to alter world events, he's just a dipshit pigroach so fuck it.

Disclaimer over.

He does not have anti-social personality disorder. Full stop. Period. I like to describe this as something you only see in serial killers and senators. It almost always starts as an adolescent disorder called Conduct Disorder and as far as we know Phil wasn't clubbing classmates with textbooks on a whim, killing animals, throwing bricks off overpasses, etc. You're taking generalized often pop-culture influenced concepts of "sociopath" and "psychopath" while square-pegging dumbshit stuff Phil does into the broad bullet points that are probably on some WebMD site you looked up and that's not how it works. In short: people with those kinds of disorders aren't massive pussies like Phil.

Other ones I saw mentioned that should be immediately thrown out are Histrionic, Autistic, ADHD, BPD, Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (genuinely lol'd at this one though).

He doesn't have delusional disorder. Again this is taking the dictionary definition of delusional, throwing it in a rock tumbler with something you saw in a movie and assuming that's what it is. You can look at subtypes and say grandiose delusional disorder or persecutory delusional disorder but those are debilitating psychoses not just dickhead personality traits. He's not renting an extra apartment because the shadow people have tracked him down and as much as pignosis is real, he doesn't believe he can reach out to his flock of millions of devotees through Twitch and guide them into the promised land but only at 4:44pm on July 14, 2046. Delusional Disorder is often seen comorbid with schizophrenia for a reason. See how you can get close if you don't really know what these are but know the words associated with them?

Aspergers? Eh, maybe? It's such a scale. It'd be extremely high functioning if there was a touch of the spergs.

Narcissistic is an interesting one. In office you can predict the course of a patient's visits to a T. It's kind of nuts. First few interactions as you are doing basic history collection they'll compliment the hell out of you and be your best friend. By about appointment 8, (and seriously you can call that shot +/- 2 most of the time) as you start to push back on them you're suddenly a complete piece of shit, the worst medical professional in the world, this is a waste of time, etc etc. But I think there's a more likely explanation.

Remember when Phil pulled his depressed card after that Youtube guy killed himself and everyone got pissed. That was the moment something clicked with me. He was so much happier a few years ago when he could walk around talking about himself and his girlfriend and just showing off his life and then continue getting paid for it. It's a cycle designed to fill an ego to its bursting point. And then it all came crashing down. It's insane how much PandaLee grounded him and it's notable how quickly (and seemingly unsuccessfully) he attempted to fill that void. He obviously hates streaming and spends more and more time just talking to his audience about his anxieties and hardships. Almost like he's using it as therapy.

OKAY FINALLY TO THE FUCKING POINT

DSP is a lonely, sad guy with a huge ego. Decent chance he's got Dysthymia, a pervasive depressive disorder that lasts longer but has less impactful effects. He really could use CBT and an SSRI but I don't think Phil would ever see a doctor for his brainworms and that's the other part. Being coddled as a kid and being decent at a fighting game (4th place at EVO!) and then getting paid just to exist while believing people genuinely cared about and loved him left him open for the fall and his ego was completely unprepared for it. He took body blow after body blow (and boy does he love to talk about it!) and what we're left with is this current shell of the ramen noodle DSP days.

What you're all confusing with delusional disorder or NPD is ego defense.

Defence mechanism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

See some familiar words? Delusional, denial, reshaping reality, primitive paranoia, retreat into fantasy, projection. These are the things you were correctly seeing but just weren't aware of the level of incapacitation a full blown psychiatric disorder inflicts on someone.

Take a look at levels one and two and then level four to see how Phil vs. actual humans use ego defense. He doesn't have a full blown disorder because he's fully capable of having a normal day-to-day life, he just doesn't want to cause he's a lazy asshole with an over-valued sense of self worth and probably some minor depression. The people in the thread who were saying "he's just a dick" are more correct than anyone trying to smash him into the DSM, but these ARE reasons to see a doctor and go to therapy. He needs to talk to someone professional that isn't just his echo chamber (cue manual lean in ban) and he needs to learn some coping mechanisms especially as his own actions publicly drag him further and further down.

Hey Kiwifarms your bill's in the fuckin mail hope you got insurance

 

[Anime Waifu NFT collector]

How can you say that he is capable of having a normal day to day life when he was hated by everyone that ever came into contact with him(co-workers,everyone in the FGC,etc),he got fired from EVERY JOB he ever had,cant do the simplests of tasks,has no friends(and the only friend he ever had was Rambo) and he is half a millon dollars in debt. You two clearly dont know anything about Phil.

Kiwis:- "Phil is a narcissist,he ticks every box".
You:- "Nu uhh ,he is just an asshole"
Kiwis:-"But he ticks everybox..."
You:-"Nu uhh,you just dont like him because he is bad at games and he is just an asshole".

Also of course a narcissist is going to have defense mechanisms,the whole point of being a narcissist is that you did nothing wrong ever,it doesnt exclude narcissism.

 

[actually]

Take a look at levels one and two and then level four to see how Phil vs. actual humans use ego defense. He doesn't have a full blown disorder because he's fully capable of having a normal day-to-day life, he just doesn't want to cause he's a lazy asshole with an over-valued sense of self worth and probably some minor depression. The people in the thread who were saying "he's just a dick" are more correct than anyone trying to smash him into the DSM, but these ARE reasons to see a doctor and go to therapy. He needs to talk to someone professional that isn't just his echo chamber (cue manual lean in ban) and he needs to learn some coping mechanisms especially as his own actions publicly drag him further and further down.

Can you elaborate more on why someone who ticks every single box on the NPD checklist shouldn't be considered at least a strong candidate for it? I'm not trying to just argue with you on this--I truly don't understand why that would be discounted. I see the argument for the ego defense, but wouldn't that go hand-in-hand with someone who is a narcissist? I mean, Phil doesn't just lie to protect his ego, he's made grandiose claims about stuff like the FGC purposefully setting him up to fail at tournaments because they were jealous of his EVO 4th place.

 

[DarkestSydePhil]

Ah fuck, wrong place. Any way to delete my comment?

 

[SkippyLongbottom]

I'd be more inclined to listen if you dudes didn't include condescending remarks on harmless assessments like how we are armchairs and we don't know much about the subject. We're shootin the shit and not even trying to appear as professionals.

Bit of a fun thread ruined by a bunch of tourists coming in with long paragraph that is introduced is "Nah uh he's not this or that he's this but I'm no professional and he requires a professional" then proceed to do the same shit we have been doing all thread.

 

[WiFi Assassination]

Can you elaborate more on why someone who ticks every single box on the NPD checklist shouldn't be considered at least a strong candidate for it? I'm not trying to just argue with you on this--I truly don't understand why that would be discounted. I see the argument for the ego defense, but wouldn't that go hand-in-hand with someone who is a narcissist? I mean, Phil doesn't just lie to protect his ego, he's made grandiose claims about stuff like the FGC purposefully setting him up to fail at tournaments because they were jealous of his EVO 4th place.

Tl;dr: Honestly, it's kind of tough to describe unless you've seen NPD in the wild.

Being a liar guy doesn't make you have NPD. The weird dude in college who you'd occasionally smoke weed with who talked about how he could have been in the UFC if he didn't fuck up his knee doing cool BMX tricks doesn't have NPD. In bad faith you can maneuver Phil into most of those boxes at like a 2. NPD's volume goes to 11. You also have to remember when it comes down to his begging and twitch entitlement, he genuinely is doing that as part of his "job" to earn a living and not out of an uncontrollable urge - we have evidence of his life outside of the paypigs. Every bit beggar Twitch streamer doesn't have NPD.

More in Depth: The checkboxes exist but they're not enough for a diagnosis. A good example is with bipolar disorder. Take two people who have all of the same symptoms except one maxed out their credit cards because they knew they could invent the world's largest toaster. That person has Bipolar I and the person who hasn't had it have a major negative impact on their life has Bipolar II. Now take that same first person who we said had Bipolar I and suppose they had only been showing these signs for 8 days. That's not enough to diagnose them with Bipolar. They're having a Brief Psychotic Episode. All that exact same stuff but without a depressive episode: you have Schizoaffective disorder, friend. The subtleties matter and you can't just paint in broad strokes in a field where you're slinging Haloperidol and Lithium.

Plus, it's clear that a personality disorder isn't ruining his life, his shitty decisions are ruining his life and there's a difference. By definition a personality disorder has to have appeared as a child (they don't just spring up) and it has to have a noticeable, disabling detriment to his life. The fact that he held a job, a long-term non-abusive relationship for as long as he did, and had close friends at one point is probably enough to discount it alone. The fact that we get a manual lean in and ban cause he's capable of brushing it off (or bottling it up, more likely) when someone says something about Khet and not an outburst of aggression would lower it on my differential as well. Phil has, on rare occasions, actually admitted to being a fuck up or been self-deprecating. This is a sign he is capable of feeling shame and is covering it up vs. complete inability to think of yourself as anything but a golden god. Him being a relatively meek and quiet individual in a lot of those travelogues with PandaLee is not the personality of a narcissist.

Another way to put it might be to say that yes he does all of the things that check the concept of a "narcissist" off, but he utilizes them on defense instead of on offense. Again this goes back to him at one point having had friends, business associates, and long-term relationships. He didn't get dumped by Machinima or whatever sponsor because he's an insufferable prick, he's just an insufferable, excuse making prick about it every time it comes up and he has to look like there was nothing he could do to bury his insecuritiy.

Now I suppose all of this comes with an asterisk: despite how much khantent there is and how many hours of Phil there is to study, we're still engaging in a parasocial interaction - we don't actually know the Pigroach and we don't see what he doesn't want us to see (except, ya know, his nut face). Could he have it? Maybe after the stream he marches up to Khet and Jasper and throws a gin bottle and demands they tell him how great the stream was today, and in a clinical environment it would be far easier to rule in or count out. But from a distance, for me, when I see and hear Phil's hoofprints I think horsies not zebras - the hyperfragile manchild is an exponentially more common diagnosis than a bonafide PD.

I'd be more inclined to listen if you dudes didn't include condescending remarks on harmless assessments like how we are armchairs and we don't know much about the subject. We're shootin the shit and not even trying to appear as professionals.

Bit of a fun thread ruined by a bunch of tourists coming in with long paragraph that is introduced is "Nah uh he's not this or that he's this but I'm no professional and he requires a professional" then proceed to do the same shit we have been doing all thread.

Some people were genuinely interested in Phil's finances and people with actual knowledge offered it. Didn't stop people from just farting out "lol he's going to jail." Both are fun. I mean if you want to just slop around in your own shit I'm not stopping you.

 

[actually]

Genuinely interesting read. Thanks!

 

[Pepsi-Cola]

You two clearly dont know anything about Phil.

I'm obviously not a historian on the guys life or anything but I think you're forgetting that irl narcissists and sociopaths usually end up in jail before they're 25. There's a reason that 70% of men in prison exhibit traits of narcissism or sociopathy. That's not to say that some don't find a way to live a normal life but they're usually the exception to the rule and have to find work in very specific careers (such as the military).

 

[dingobaby]

You guys do know that narcissism as a personality trait and NPD are different, right?

edit: late, sorry

 

[Dizzyuntildeath]

I don't mean to stir the pot or anything, but I do not believe he has NPD.
Why not? Because when you get right down to it. In moments of duress, panic, confrontation, or drunken sadness, the facade crumbles just enough to show that he, on some level, does not believe in his rhetoric. A true narcissist doesn't back down; they genuinely believe what they tell people about themselves. Narcissists are actually quite confrontational and intense as people go. Phil does a few things that is counter to what a narcissist does.
He has a limited amount of self awareness: he admits his spending is part of the reason he's in the shit. He blames the troll for the loss of income, but acknowledges that his spending got him there.
He 'forgives' people: this one is harder to show because he has no in person relations, but he unbans people who grovel and beg. Narcissists do not do this. If you spurn one, you don't come back from that.
He understands that other people have different mindsets from him: narcissists, for the most part, don't understand that people process the world differently from them. This one is actually pretty difficult to conceptualize, because I am assuming most people on here are functional, maladaptive people are usually locked in a specific mindset, essentially a prisoner of their own mind, which is why it can be so hard to reach them, and the truly mentally ill do not respond to lines of treatment and are often kept on forms of sedation and segregation.
Edit: words

use CBT and an SSRI

Can you imagine the absolute shitshow of him on an uptake inhibitor with his drinking? He'd go off the fucking deep end.