Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

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Florida man news. Heres a table for those familiar with the counties:
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My uncle who is overweight with diabeetus and sleep apnea text me he caught a cold. Count me in as worried 😰

Of course it's in Broward Co.
 
The thing about all these reported cases of 'young Italians' in ICU without co-morbidities... is the fact that Italians smoke like chimneys. That's got to be a factor, otherwise we'd be seeing similar trends in other hot zones.

I think that it is a numbers game. Let's say that 1000 "young" Italians catch it, like you catch a cold. If an estimated .2 percent of people between 20 - 30 "catch" it like you do a common cold, we have 2 deaths per 1000. So among 10,000 sick young adults you have 20 fatalities and one would presume many more who survive it, after intensive care.


Anyway regardless of the true numbers of infected, the larger the population = more fatalities by percentages.
 
Yeah, China is definitely lying about their numbers
Screenshot_20200310-122003_Brave.jpg
 
Not even close. Just found out why the bond yield is less than 1%.

20% of the US Economy is based on health care. 60% of that figure comes from treatments that are only useful in the last 6 months of your life, like chemo and bypasses.

This virus mostly kills old people. Think about it - this virus just became the Silver Bullet. If we don't save all the Grans, they never get the life preserving treatment that employs so many.

Trump has to get this shit under control right now or a large part of the economy goes away forever and he's never forgiven by grieving loved ones. The options he has suck, he has to pick the least worst and there aren't enough hours in the day to think it over.
What's the source for that 60% figure, all I can find is roughly 13% including long-term care for the final year.
 
Eh? That's an x to doubt.

Most graves these days aren't dug by people. They're usually dug by excavators because it's faster. Regulations on workers being allowed down into holes is also another reason for it. It'd be arguably less productive to have humans doing it by hand. Even a small low power tractor with excavator attachment would be faster tgan a bunch o' guys with a shovel Then you've got regulations on grave depth and number of bodies. Handling of bodies. Unless it's gone full medieval bodies in the streets bring out your dead levels this is pointless.

I don't see them kitting out a bunch of prisoners with heavy equipment. You need training for that shit and, in Canada at least, a special license.
They've been digging and burying folks on Hart Island for a very long time. It's NYC's Potter's Field.
 
I asked my boss today to explain to me our company's overall plan for addressing this and protecting employees. We are a very very large company with many large assets and lots of responsibilities to the public and to our workers. Of course, given a company of this size it is pretty common for the chiefs to ignore most things that the ants say. When I asked about our preparedness, I also added the caveat that he please not minimize the issue, something he already did before when I asked about this in January... and February...

After yelling at me for accusing him of minimizing the issue, he then berated me for being such a jerk since I never brought this up to him before so how dare I point fingers. I've brought this up twice now. And I have also brought it up on other occasions with other bosses.

Then he told me that he was unable to get any work done yesterday because of the damn meeting that the bosses attended about this very issue. Why didn't I bother to look at the paperwork they just posted yesterday? Why the hell am I blaming them for lack of preparedness? He said I needed to get my head on straight and pay better attention. Then he stormed off.

Uh... I had my regular day off yesterday, dude. WTF happened in that meeting? And why wasn't that meeting a month ago?

*forgot to add, he also literally said the words "It's just a flu." But that totally isn't minimizing the situation.
Alright here's a fun little followup. I've finally been able to get access to the company's plan for WuFlu that was posted on my day off.

WuFlu - Company Preparedness.png


A couple things I would like to note. First and foremost is how very basic this all is. They have had months to prepare and control a billion dollars in assets and this was what they came up with. The other thing I would like to point out is that this release was dated "Thursday, March 4, 2020"... that is not a date on the calendar this year. They couldn't even get the date right. And when I contacted my supervisor he found a way to start yelling at me.

Maybe I'll go with cremation...
 
I love the way the article talks about 'facing a lockdown in 14 days'.

Yeah, in two weeks maybe the democratic government of the UK will get round to realizing things are so bad it has to implement a lockdown long after it should have been done for maximum effectiveness.
 
What's the source for that 60% figure, all I can find is roughly 13% including long-term care for the final year.

Looks like %50 of all medical care in the US is used by %5 of the population that are mostly the chronically ill.
You are correct in the %12 to %13 number for end of life care but his logic still kinda works.



How We Spend $3,400,000,000,000
Why more than half of America's healthcare spending goes to five percent of patients
T.R. REIDJUNE 15, 2017
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ELAINA NATARIO / KATIE MARTIN / THE ATLANTIC
Last year, America’s total medical costs hit a new record of $3.4 trillion, according to the federal government. That’s about 18 percent of the country’s total GDP, meaning that one out of every six dollars we spent in 2016 went to health care. The national doctor bill dwarfs anything else we spend money on, including food, clothing, housing, or even our mighty military.


If that $3.4 trillion were spread equally throughout the population, the bill would come to some $10,350 for every man, woman and child in the country. But fortunately—for most of us, anyway—the cost of health care is not equally distributed. Rather, a small number of Americans run up most of the expense. The biggest medical costs are concentrated on a fairly small segment of the population—people with one or more chronic illnesses, plus victims of accidents or violent crime. The cost is so concentrated, in fact, that an estimated five percent of the population accounts for 50 percent of total medical costs.
For the purposes of this project, we’re calling these people The Platinum Patients—they’ve also been described as “super-utilizers” or “frequent fliers.”
This concentration of total cost on a small segment of the total population is reflected in another common aspect of medical spending: the concentration of treatment, and cost, in the end of a life span. For most people, the vast majority of all the health care they’ll ever get comes near the hour of death. Hundreds of billions of dollars each year are spent treating Americans who are in the last weeks, or days, of life.



The old Marx Brothers’ joke—“I wouldn’t dare go to the hospital—people die there all the time”—is essentially true. Many people die in the hospital—in many cases, just after they’ve incurred a hugely expensive round of surgery, treatment, and medication. About one-third of Americans undergo operations in the last month of life.
If these issues were subject to hard, cold economic theory, a health-care system would probably distribute spending differently. The large sums it costs to keep a sedated cancer patient with dementia alive in a hospital bed from age 94 to 95 could presumably be directed instead to provide, say, a kidney transplant for a 40-something victim of renal failure, or a young woman who is too depressed to care for her baby. That money could be used for pre-natal care for uninsured mothers, setting the stage for both mother and child to have a healthier and happier life. Or, those funds could be used to provide health insurance at reasonable cost to the 29 million Americans who have no health coverage today.

One famous, or perhaps notorious, advocate of limiting late-in-life medical spending is former Colorado Gov. Richard Lamm, who was given the nickname “Governor Gloom” in the 1980’s for his argument that the elderly have a “duty” to avoid costly care when the end is near. There’s only so much money available for medical care, Lamm noted, so it ought to be used in the most efficient way. In the face of bitter criticism, Lamm stuck to his guns. Just this spring he told the Denver Post: “When I look at the literature, and there are such things as $93,000 prostate operations at some stage of prostate cancer that might give two extra months of life, it is outrageous.”
The problem with these straightforward economic calculations is that they involve real human beings who have friends and relatives. That 94-year-old cancer patient, after all, may have loving children or grandchildren at the bedside; hardly anybody is willing to let Grandpa die just to save money for the overall health-care system.

The issue of allocating medical spending is most acute in the United States, because we spend far more on treatment and medication than any other country. All the other developed democracies on the planet guarantee health care for everybody (citizen or alien), and yet they spend, on average, about half as much per capita as the U.S.
But all over the world, health systems are struggling with the same concentration of cost that plagues the U.S.
The United Kingdom is a global leader in dealing with this concern, because the National Health Service provides care—with no medical bills –to 62 million Britons and another 12 million or so resident foreigners. Overall, the NHS works well; the Brits have longer life expectancy, lower infant mortality, and somewhat better health statistics than the U.S., at far less cost. But the British, system, too, is struggling with the enormous expense of treating the chronically ill and the aged.
So Britain created an organization to make rules for how its healthcare money is spent. It’s formally called the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence, but everyone knows it by its acronym: “NICE.” This outfit issues guidelines to the regional medical authorities on what should be covered, and what shouldn’t. Should a 94-year-old get a hip replacement? Should a terminal cancer patient be given a course of medication that costs $40,000 and extends life an average of four months? (In Britain, the answers are, generally, “No.”)



In one widely-reported case, the NICE guidelines said that a pub waitress—a mother of three—who contracted breast cancer should not receive the drug Herceptin. After all, NICE noted, the medication costs about $36,000, and doesn’t usually help with that woman’s particular form of cancer. Since there is only a finite amount of money in the National Health Service budget, the agency said, it would be smarter to spend those thousands on a treating another patient with a better chance of recovery.
As pure economics, this made sense. As politics, it was a disaster. The waitress’s case became a national scandal. The tabloid headlines savaged the agency: “Not so NICE—Mum Left to Fight Cancer Without a Pill.”
For systems that are looking for smarter ways to allocate limited funds, health-care economists have created a pair of measures to determine which treatments or drugs are worth paying for. The “Quality-Adjusted Life Year,” or QALY (pronounced “quolly”) and the “Disability-Adjusted Life Year, or DALY (“dolly”), are supposed to steer health-care dollars in the direction that provides the greatest quality of life. These ratings would say, for example, that spending money to keep an aging, asthmatic Alzheimer’s patient on life support for 9 months is not as useful as spending the same money for 9 months of pre-natal care for a poor, uninsured mother-to-be.

Americans who are not health-care economists tend to resist the concept of QALYs and DALYs because they lead the system not to pay for one person’s health care in order to pay for another’s. This is considered “rationing” of health care, and rationing is generally condemned under a variety of names, most memorably as “death panels.”
In fact, though, every nation rations health care every day. No country—not even the richest oil sheikdoms—can afford to pay for every advanced surgical procedure and every costly drug that modern medicine knows how to provide. Accordingly, health-care systems are constantly making choices—rationing—about which treatments to pay for.
The United States, too, rations health care. Just ask any of the 29 million uninsured Americans who generally can’t see a doctor or pay for a prescription until they’re sick enough to go to the emergency room. But the U.S. does its rationing in a different way.
In other rich countries, there’s a basic floor of care that everybody gets, which means there’s a ceiling as well—the system simply won’t pay for certain drugs or procedures. In the U.S., millions of people have no floor except the emergency room, and others have no ceiling. With the right insurance plan, there’s almost no limit to what money can buy in American health care, regardless of the age or condition of the patient. And so we continue to spend huge sums on that small, generally elderly segment of the population with chronic illnesses, while millions have no health insurance.



One approach to this quandary that seems promising, both for the individual patient and for the health-care system overall, is the concept of “death with dignity,” as reflected in the Hospice movement. Hospice was initially a British idea that has spread to France, the U.S., and other advanced democracies. It’s a system that emphasizes caring, not curing, that replaces the all-out battle against death. In essence, the surgeries and the IV tubes and the breathing machines are replaced with a calm acceptance that one’s time is coming.
A patient in Hospice avoids the operating room and the hospital ward, spending the final weeks or days of life at home or in a quiet facility, often with a regimen of drugs to control the pain of disease. In the U.S., most of the people who commit to Hospice are elderly, but it’s a path that terminally ill patients sometimes choose in their 20’s or 30’s. For the ailing individual, and for friends and relatives, it provides a more tranquil opportunity to reflect and say goodbye than the hurly-burly and confusion of a major hospital. For a health-care system, it can be a massive money-saver.

Accordingly, the two big government health-insurance plans, Medicaid and Medicare, both provide payment for hospice services. One section of the Affordable Care Act (“ObamaCare”) says that physicians can now be paid for an office visit in which they discuss end-of-life options such as Hospice; this was the provision that Sarah Palin famously denounced as “death panels.”
Still, most people facing serious illness avoid Hospice and place their bet instead on the marvels of modern medicine. The physical result is often positive; doctors today can cure diseases that were considered terminal just a few years ago. However, the fiscal impact of these miracle cures is increasingly painful for national treasuries.
As other countries have found, there’s no simple solution to the problem of concentrated health-care costs. But one step that could clearly help in the U.S. would be a commitment, at long last, to provide health care for every American. All of the rich countries that guarantee health care for everybody have better health outcomes at much lower cost than the U.S. This is not a coincidence: a comprehensive system of universal care will always be cheaper and more effective than the haphazard, crazy-quilt network of overlapping and costly payment systems America is stuck with today.
And when everybody is covered, the health-care system can probably make fairer decisions about where the money should be spent. If America is going to pay $3.4 trillion for health care, after all, we ought to make sure that every American benefits from that colossal expenditure.
 
uh.. house rep DeLauro wearing her best today.
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looks like an emo senator palpatine.

What, where, why, how? And... WHAAAT. :thinking:

I can't say that if I needed a pack of toilet paper for my family and some selfish, panicking person had taken every last pack needlessly for themselves that I wouldn't also stop them. I mean, would you go back to your kids and tell them to use their left hand; or spend the week washing crap-covered towels because of that person's selfishness? I mean the only real difference I can see between how that woman is acting and myself is that I'd probably do it more elegantly in just lift a packet from her trolly as I went by before she knew what was happening and then I'd already have it. Or you could complain to the manager and ask him to intervene which I think most managers would.

But "typical animal"? Shame on you if you'd just stand there and take that sort of behaviour from the hoarder woman.

It's not that complicated, just smear a little liquid soap on your taint and run it under the tub tap for 30 seconds.
 
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Yesterday watched the news conference at the White House. Imagine a number of you did, as well.

Going to key on the number of WuFlu test kits available and in process. These are not small numbers. You don't just pull X million kits out of your ass. Very little of what's happened has been improvised.

Believe preparation for this has been happening since at least December.

Here's a rough, mostly top-level scenario/time line. We'll likely get the exact times/dates whenever a book comes out.

December - intelligence community gets word of developing WuFlu, concern in Beijing. Report is produced and sent up the chain of command. The President is advised, reads the report, and forms a multi-agency task force to deal with the consequences of the WuFlu. Some participants - Department of Defense, Intelligence Community, Health and Human Services, CDC, Commerce Department, Department of Labor, Department of Transportation, State Department. These people spent most of their Christmas holiday season developing a basic plan to deal with an outbreak here. Also believe the President very quietly met with the Vice-President, the Speaker of the House, and the Senate and House majority and minority leaders. At times like this politics tend to get shunted aside, least among the "adults". The people meeting have a lot of experience in dealing with major national events, and the virus is no respecter of a person's politics. The President wasn't sweating the impeachment anyway.

January - Government procurement and contracting people contact the companies best situated to make the test kits. While the Government procurement/contracting process is usually considered to be pretty slow, depending on the situation things can move very, very quickly. My guess - indefinite quantity (IDQ) contracts for test kits were let. You do this when you aren't exactly sure how many of something you'll need. But you also will specify minimum and projected maximum numbers of items to be provided within the time frame of the contract. The minimum assures the contractor of getting a certain amount of business to pay for the materials, facilities, and labor needed. Most likely there's a clause increasing the maximum needed, on presenting X amount of notice to the contractor. Another guess - contract goes until September 30, end of the fiscal year. And if you are purchasing from more than one contractor this leaves Congress no room to complain about a sole-source contract. Procurement and contracting can sound boring until you realize that's how you get the stuff that may save your ass. Inter-agency task force steps up activities as reports come in from China. Military identifying bases and facilities to house cruise ship/other travelers under quarantine. Initial support/supply requirements being coordinated within the military, then with CDC and anyone else. First orders go out for needed supplies. Depending on what's purchased, contracting can happen in various ways. For food, as an example, the military already has contracts with suppliers nationwide. All that's needed to do is to let the supplier know what's needed, how much, where, and when. Pricing has already been done in the initial contract, and supplier is paid when food is delivered. Likely also the same for medicines/medical supplies. President, VP, Speaker, majority/minority leaders kept updated of major developments/milestones.

February - likely dimensions of outbreak in the USA are estimated. Task force, which is very big by now, does estimates of likely numbers of sick and deceased, which geographical areas may be hit hardest, which industries may be hit hardest. Plans developed to mitigate impact upon the American people, medically, materially, and financially. Someone smart pointed out the plight of the hourly worker and on the basis of this the plan of providing Federally paid sick leave came about. All other preparations keep ramping up. Keep in mind that there are going to be hitches and glitches in any plan, set of plans, and the implementation of these plans. Nothing will go perfectly. Anyone expecting perfection in an operation like this is retarded. Mistakes get made, fixed, lessons learned, plans adjusted to accommodate new information received. Upper echelons probably briefed daily on progress in the various areas. White House and governors start seriously talking. First people to be quarantined show up, sent to military bases waiting for them. Likely first wave of test kits show up and are distributed, more to come.

March - preparations and actions continue. Press conference held, outlining various actions taken/in progress/planned, as well as who has been participating. More kits coming in, more preparations made, etc. All this time the intelligence community has been doing their utmost to get all the info possible on the spread of the virus, worldwide. Some countries, such as the UK, Canada, Aus, NZ, Japan, Italy, Korea, Germany, Israel, France have been contributing information from the get-go and get info from us in return. Could well be some coordination of relief efforts. Wouldn't be surprised if Vietnam, India, maybe Russia are also cooperating, Iran, too, if they are smart. They are in this, too. China - don't know. Not sure CCP statistics can be believed or trusted, and will let it go at that.

Some will ask where the money is coming from for all this. Doesn't matter. What needs to be spent will be spent and will worry about paying it off later, just like families do in emergencies.

This is what I believe has been going on, and is presently going on, at the top level.
 
I love the way the article talks about 'facing a lockdown in 14 days'.

Yeah, in two weeks maybe the democratic government of the UK will get round to realizing things are so bad it has to implement a lockdown long after it should have been done for maximum effectiveness.
The United Kingdom has a government?
 
The National Guard has been deployed to New Rochelle where most of the coronavirus cases have been clustered around a Jewish community. The NG will be dispatched to "large gathering areas" (whatever that means) and will help with delivering food and cleaning public spaces. It will last for two weeks.
 
Florida man news. Heres a table for those familiar with the counties:
View attachment 1181531

My uncle who is overweight with diabeetus and sleep apnea text me he caught a cold. Count me in as worried 😰
Wait, I don't remember calling you.

Cpaps do a great job of amplifying your roommates farts, he has my pity
 
东南早报

【#泉州欣佳酒店# 坍塌现场救援直击 姐弟俩紧紧相拥】
今天早上8点29分、38分,鲤城区欣佳酒店坍塌救援现场,两名小孩分别被救出,是一对紧紧相拥的小姐弟。遗憾的是,两人均没有生命体征。


记者了解到,两人是姐弟,弟弟2岁左右,姐姐4岁左右,两人被发现时紧紧抱在一起。在救出小女孩的一刻,厦门市消防救援支队特勤一站副站长周建仁在现场放声大哭,在场其他战员也相继落泪。

据厦门支队的战员介绍,40多名厦门支队战员从3月10日凌晨3点多轮岗上阵,凌晨6点20分左右发现被困姐弟。发现时,4岁姐姐紧紧抱着2岁弟弟。经过2个多小时的攻坚,8点29分,弟弟被救出,8点38分姐姐被救出,遗憾的是两人均没有生命体征。在场的周建仁抑制不住悲伤情绪,放声痛哭,其他消防战员也都哭了。

“我们都有孩子,年纪也很小,看到这种场景,大家都忍不住了。”忍着悲痛的情绪,消防战员救援工作仍在继续,“我们不放弃任何救援机会,期待生命奇迹。”厦门消防救援支队战员说。#福建泉州一酒店发生楼体坍塌# #泉州坍塌酒店现场发现被困母子#
(记者:黄墩良 许小程 潘登 王柏峰 陈起拓 张九强 陈晓东 胡彦明 等现场报道) http://t.cn/A6zAJy1h[/cp]

新闻里骂的被消音了,消防队员边哭边骂:“我操,我操,你吗了个比
1583863128961.png

http://miaopai.com/show/PLUHxGUw ... kIKHI0B306Cpg__.htm

Anyone has the video? I checked, it's deleted due to "violation of rules". Yes, I did remove the dots and underscores. The shortened link has the video but there's no real audio.
So this is one of the rescuers breaking down in tears after pulling out 2 corpses of children. Sister 4yo and brother 2yo, they were hugging tightly when found. Of course, both long dead.

This is from the hotel that collapsed in Xiamen, due to whatever stupid reasons the officials no doubt will conjure up.

40 rescuers worked from 3am, 10th of March, the corpses were discovered at about 6:20. It took 2+ hours to get both of them out, which were gone. The firefighter named Zhou Jianren broke out in tears, so did the others.

"We all have kids, they are young, seeing something like this, we can't hold back". Firefighters continually work, "we will not give up any chances, we are waiting for a miracle of life", one of them says.

In the clip, the firefighters were swearing, which was bleeped out. "Fuck, fuck this, motherfucker".

Also, apparently the building collapsed due to illegal expansion. The supporting pillars can't hold the weight anymore, as the hotel has been altered and expanded several times illegally. So it's not bat nest (obvious chinanet joke) or some pillar getting knocked over apparently. In China, it's illegal to severely alter one's "property" without permission, I think this is the same in most places. I can't cut down a tree in backyard or build an underground lab without the council saying yes. Either way, plenty in China still disregard such rules and expand their buildings, leading to disasters like this. I still remember a case I saw in the news where some balcony collapsed and killed a couple pedestrians.

Lots of these huge abandoned projects in China are either because it was illegal to begin with, to which the government steps in to stop it, or the businesses involved ran dry of their budget (corruption, money laundering).

What a fucking disaster. On top of the virus, there's soulless slants who only cares about money.
 
Was 1969 as bad as this one?

If we kill off all the boomers, this question will never be answered.

The anecdotal stories I've heard over the years about LSD as a last ditch vs the flu are from that era.

Is this person real? She looks like Noel Fielding after a particularly hard weekend on the lash.

Wow, I thought that was a tranny.
 
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