Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

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Chloroquine is very effective against COVID-19, but both chloroquine and quinine in therapeutic doses are ototoxic and have retinal toxicity. They can cause mild blindness and/or deafness. That’s why they’ve fallen into disfavor as a malaria treatment, even though they are still considered essential. Now, if you eat a fistful of pure chloroquine aquarium treatment, like that numbskull probably did, you’re going to die. You have to measure out like 500 to 600mg on a scale, taken as an initial loading dose, and then do like 300mg a day. If you just scoop it into your morning glass of milk like protein powder, you’re going to end up in the ER or dead. Use fucking sparingly.
 
My state is on a stay-at-home lockdown, although I'm still unclear as to how this is being enforced. I have a car inspection on Friday, and it hasn't been cancelled yet. Do I still go? I usually run for a few hours on Saturday, and exercise is definitely allowed, but I drive to get to the trail where I run Is that OK? I've heard that the cops will be enforcing this, but Is it a good use of police resources to stop people at random to interrogate them as to where they're going? Michael Bloomberg should start his campaign again and just say he's going to do stop and frisk during every flu season, and we'd probably get a couple hundred fawning profiles of how he's keeping America safe from disease.

If we could somehow all sit in our houses while getting paid and have everything delivered to us by drone this might work, but as long as there there are places that we can go, then people just congregate there. I can sit in my house avoiding everyone for 23 hours, but the hour I go to the supermarket is more crowded then ever. When I used to go to the supermarket early in the morning, it was just me and a few old people. Now the crowds are like a Sunday morning before the Superbowl with a blizzard on the way. I come in contact with more people now than I did before the quarantines started.

And even the people most affected aren't heroically staying in place. It's not like anyone is suggesting cutting off traffic from New York City, even though New Yorkers have no problems travelling all over New Jersey and New England trying to buy up food and shelter in their shore houses. When those people spread it to the rural areas, which don't have the medical facilities they do in the big cities, who's going to care about them?

Has any politician sworn off their salary until this whole thing is finished? Have any of them talked to us like we're adults instead of parents who are putting their kids in timeout because they were playing Nintendo instead of doing their homework? Are we staying in lockdown for two weeks? A month? Until a vaccine arrives, which may never happen? If people are infected, how do we keep them from breaking quarantine? Ankle bracelets? Guards at every sick person's door? Do we start shooting people if they don't stay in their houses?

Maybe I'm just completely misreading everything, but if the virus is everywhere and we can't enforce these lockdowns short of ripping up the Constitution and basically installing a military dictatorship, then why are we pretending that flatting the curve is even an option at this point? Even the people who enthusiastically support the lockdowns would probably feel differently if Netlfix stopped working and they weren't able to get their food from Doordash. So, realistically, what are the chances of any of this working?
 
Chloroquine is very effective against COVID-19, but both chloroquine and quinine in therapeutic doses are ototoxic and have retinal toxicity. They can cause mild blindness and/or deafness. That’s why they’ve fallen into disfavor as a malaria treatment, even though they are still considered essential. Now, if you eat a fistful of pure chloroquine aquarium treatment, like that numbskull probably did, you’re going to die. You have to measure out like 500 to 600mg on a scale, taken as an initial loading dose, and then do like 300mg a day. If you just scoop it into your morning glass of tard cum like protein powder, you’re going to end up in the ER or dead. Use fucking sparingly.
At the doses being used (200MG 2x a day) and for the length of time used (max 14 days) toxicity is very unlikely to be an issue. Even then many would likely prefer to risk it VS dying of drowning in their own lungs.
 
Well, actually, no. If you look at the figures we’re seeing from epidemiologists like Neil Ferguson, we’re looking at 2.2 million dead Americans if we do nothing. Compare and contrast with the 10k Americans dead from Swine Flu. Also, extrapolate globally. If we do nothing, 90 to 100 million will die. If we do everything right and isolate people, the death toll will be much lower, and the virus will look like it was nothing to be worried about.



Well, let's theorize about that. Let's assume the predicted 2.2 million of 330 million Americans die. Worldwide numbers are irrelevant, because American measures don't impact the rest of the world except for their international travel and exports. If we assume the US keeps up international travel blocks + stricter standards for exports, that deals with the international portion of the issue. As of 2014, about 2.5 million Americans died a year. Coronavirus deaths are going to have a pretty hefty overlap with the normal deaths, because the most sickly of the population are the most likely to die.

Due to the already present 2.5m deaths per year figure we have, obviously America can handle 2.2 deaths in a year without issue. If we assume a significant portion don't overlap or are front-loaded into this year rather than later years, the question is then: can America handle 3m or even 4m deaths in a year without a problem? At worst, we almost double the number of deaths in a year, assuming that the worst case 2.2 million figure is what we get, and those killed by COVID19 do not intersect whatsoever with the 2.5 killed annually by other stuff.

Emotions aside, just cold hard facts: do you think the bumped up death rate would have a higher negative impact on America than a full-blown depression? Would it trigger a depression or worse itself? I personally think it would do less damage, even at worst case, than crashing the banks and economy and leaving people in a second Great Depression (while STILL dealing with the virus killing people).
 
Chloroquine is very effective against COVID-19, but both chloroquine and quinine in therapeutic doses are ototoxic and have retinal toxicity. They can cause mild blindness and/or deafness. That’s why they’ve fallen into disfavor as a malaria treatment, even though they are still considered essential. Now, if you eat a fistful of pure chloroquine aquarium treatment, like that numbskull probably did, you’re going to die. You have to measure out like 500 to 600mg on a scale, taken as an initial loading dose, and then do like 300mg a day. If you just scoop it into your morning glass of tard cum like protein powder, you’re going to end up in the ER or dead. Use fucking sparingly.
Everyone is mistaken about hidroxychloroquine, it's not the same molecule, it's a more neutered / safer molecule than the pure Chloroquine, the side effects are practically non existant if you take them for a week, people developing symptoms from it are taking it for YEARS and so the concentration in the blood becomes toxic because you can't get rid of it in a timely manner from your system, you really need a very long exposure to chloroquine and a yearly long treatment for paludism / malaria to start to develop these side effects, 5 days to 7 days of it and it gets to levels that are easily eliminated by the body, it's not like you would take it everyday for straight years. That's really uneducated / harmful disinfo about it. Especially when hidroxychloroquine is probably like dozen times less concentrated than chloroquine, the molecule has also been ridden of a lot of the toxicity in the process, just don't fucking take chloroquine as a replacement it's truely not the same shit you put in your system.
 
Everyone is mistaken about hidroxychloroquine, it's not the same molecule, it's a more neutered / safer molecule than the pure Chloroquine, the side effects are practically non existant if you take them for a week, people developing symptoms from it are taking it for YEARS and so the concentration in the blood becomes toxic because you can't get rid of it in a timely manner from your system, you really need a very long exposure to chloroquine and a yearly long treatment for paludism / malaria to start to develop these side effects, 5 days to 7 days of it and it gets to levels that are easily eliminated by the body, it's not like you would take it everyday for straight years. That's really uneducated / harmful disinfo about it.

No, you’re totally correct. Hydroxychloroquine is very safe. Chloroquine phosphate and quinine are quite a bit more toxic. There is no equivalency between those things. Trump being criticized for people self-dosing with chloroquine phosphate is ridiculous, because he was recommending hydroxychloroquine for a clinical setting. Self-dosing anything other than Tylenol and Mucinex for this is dumb. If someone gets to the point where they need antivirals and are coofing all over, they need to get intubated before they go full-blown ARDS and drop, especially if they live alone. Basically, they’ll find your decomposing body weeks later. If the pneumonia shows up, don’t hesitate. Go straight to the doc.
 
Outside China:

29103 confirmed / 13206 dead / 28181 recovered

254565 / 11389 / 25520 yesterday

Iran:

23049 confirmed / 1812 dead / 8376 recovered

21638 / 1685 / 7931 yesterday

USA:

43901 confirmed / 517 dead / missing

33276 / 417 / 178 yesterday

John Hopkins screwed around with numbers and columns this morning, breaking down deaths in the USA to cities if they could. The recovery column entry for USA recoveries was missing at that time and is still missing tonight. They might have added it to the Diamond Princess total as that jumped from 325 last night to 567. If so then US recovery would be 242 but who knows.
 
Well, let's theorize about that. Let's assume the predicted 2.2 million of 330 million Americans die. Worldwide numbers are irrelevant, because American measures don't impact the rest of the world except for their international travel and exports. If we assume the US keeps up international travel blocks + stricter standards for exports, that deals with the international portion of the issue. As of 2014, about 2.5 million Americans died a year. Coronavirus deaths are going to have a pretty hefty overlap with the normal deaths, because the most sickly of the population are the most likely to die.

Due to the already present 2.5m deaths per year figure we have, obviously America can handle 2.2 deaths in a year without issue. If we assume a significant portion don't overlap or are front-loaded into this year rather than later years, the question is then: can America handle 3m or even 4m deaths in a year without a problem? At worst, we almost double the number of deaths in a year, assuming that the worst case 2.2 million figure is what we get, and those killed by COVID19 do not intersect whatsoever with the 2.5 killed annually by other stiff.

Emotions aside, just cold hard facts: do you think the bumped up death rate would have a higher negative impact on America than a full-blown depression? Would it trigger a depression or worse itself? I personally think it would do less damage, even at worst case, than crashing the banks and economy and leaving people in a second Great Depression (while STILL dealing with the virus killing people).
Their concern is that 2.2 million number is calculated assuming 80% infection rate. If all that happens at once, the death rate will be much higher. If the fatality rate is higher then 1%, that number will be much higher.

At 1.23%, the current fatality rate in south korea, 80% of america would be 264,000,000 people, with 3,247,200 dead. If the healthcare system collapsed and the death rate climbed to 2%, the death toll would be 5,280,000. And the numbers go up from there.

Could america handle that many deaths? The american system, like all worldwide systems, relies on balance. Doubling the death rate would wildly unbalance the country both economically and culturally. The spanish flu killed roughly 0.64% of the american population over 3 years, and that created disruptions that were felt for years. Losing 1-2% of the population in a much shorter time period would be a catastrophic shock. We would survive, but not without consequences that would last for likely the rest of the decade. And until widespread testing is available, we have no way of knowing what the actual fatality rate will be. Assuming south korean numbers are correct, the disease would kill twice as many per capita then spanish flu did, and the effects would be unpleasant to say the least.

Look at shopping centers, there is a doubling of demand and all the shelves are bare for weeks. The same thing will occur if the death rate doubles for a year, crematories and cemeteries wont keep up, the economy wont keep up, and the waves from the impact will reverberate throughout society.
 
Outside China:

29103 confirmed / 13206 dead / 28181 recovered

254565 / 11389 / 25520 yesterday

Iran:

23049 confirmed / 1812 dead / 8376 recovered

21638 / 1685 / 7931 yesterday

USA:

43901 confirmed / 517 dead / missing

33276 / 417 / 178 yesterday

John Hopkins screwed around with numbers and columns this morning, breaking down deaths in the USA to cities if they could. The recovery column entry for USA recoveries was missing at that time and is still missing tonight. They might have added it to the Diamond Princess total as that jumped from 325 last night to 567. If so then US recovery would be 242 but who knows.
Infection2020 is showing 297 recovered.
 
Or, if you really MUST HAVE YOUR QUININE just buy some good tonic water, and mix yourself a delicious gin and tonic.

Or just have that shit straight. A lot easier than measuring weird substances, and has the plus side of not killing you.
It's really important to repeat and educate people that it's not because there is chloroquine in hidroxychloroquine that it means it's the same thing, that will lead to a lot of death if the message isn't clear with this, you know, most people don't really have a lot of watts in their lightbulbs, Trump should really adress that , keep it clean and simple but clearly differentiate the two, or, sorry to say, scared people being retards are going to self medicate.
 
Their concern is that 2.2 million number is calculated assuming 80% infection rate. If all that happens at once, the death rate will be much higher. If the fatality rate is higher then 1%, that number will be much higher.

At 1.23%, the current fatality rate in south korea, 80% of america would be 264,000,000 people, with 3,247,200 dead. If the healthcare system collapsed and the death rate climbed to 2%, the death toll would be 5,280,000. And the numbers go up from there.

Could america handle that many deaths? The american system, like all worldwide systems, relies on balance. Doubling the death rate would wildly unbalance the country both economically and culturally. The spanish flu killed roughly 0.64% of the american population over 3 years, and that created disruptions that were felt for years. Losing 1-2% of the population in a much shorter time period would be a catastrophic shock. We would survive, but not without consequences that would last for likely the rest of the decade. And until widespread testing is available, we have no way of knowing what the actual fatality rate will be. Assuming south korean numbers are correct, the disease would kill twice as many per capita then spanish flu did, and the effects would be unpleasant to say the least.

Look at shopping centers, there is a doubling of demand and all the shelves are bare for weeks. The same thing will occur if the death rate doubles for a year, crematories and cemeteries wont keep up, the economy wont keep up, and the waves from the impact will reverberate throughout society.

But of course, that assumes worst case scenario, with 80% infection rate and 1% death rate. At this point, I highly doubt we would experience 80% infection rate even if we dropped all of the quarantine nonsense right now, because we've already identified 40k+ cases. But there still remains the question: what will do worse? A possible high death rate that will impact our healthcare facilities, or a total economic collapse that will impact all of our facilities? Which death rate will be higher, and which will have a negative impact longer?

Of course ideally choosing a middle option that mitigates both effects are best, but it's not useless to consider both versions of worst case scenario and decide which is worse.
 
Every page of this bill is just wild. What does $2m for domestic abuse hotline have to do with anything? There's nothing wrong with funding violence hotlines, but exactly what does that have to do with the coronavirus?
Why can't, Trump veto or seize full power in times of need / survival and just sign what he proposed first, i know we are in democracy but Dems are really fucking around and making it a carnival when it's really coming to gambling with people's live now, i don't think he would be seen as impopular if he got the paper through in the form / shape it was before they edited it up for their personal gains or just to fuck around, to the contrary.

Can't he invoke state of national emergency or something that gives him the right to push that help through ? Come on...
 
Why can't, Trump veto or seize full power in times of need / survival and just sign what he proposed first, i know we are in democracy but Dems are really fucking around and making it a carnival when it's really coming to gambling with people's live now, i don't think he would be seen as impopular if he got the paper through in the form / shape it was before they edited it up for their personal gains or just to fuck around, to the contrary.

Can't he invoke state of national emergency or something that gives him the right to push that help through ? Come on...
The dems would find a judge to overrule his declaration 1 hour later. If not they would kill him and I’m not joking with that statement with how the dems are acting right now.
 
You keep Ralph out of this, he isnt welding peoples doors shut like CA, IL, OH, NY, and PA are

NJ is the one having the cops enforce quarantine rules (good luck with that in Newark, Trenton, and Camden, but I digress), not NY. Based on Cuomo's news conference today, between the lowering hospitalization rates, improved testing, and the now public announcement about immunity if you already had it, they were talking about getting ready to get shit moving again with in the next few weeks.

Had NYC closed the schools earlier maybe we wouldn't have seen as big an outbreak there, but between the incoming vents, pop-up hospitals, and capacity increases to existing facilities and the lower rate of hospitalizions NY may have just dodged a major bullet. And as long as he doesn't Go Woke again, King Andrew is a lock for a another term as Gov in 22' and likely top contender for the Presidential election on the Dems ticket in 24' (assuming the party doesn't implode before then).
 
https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronaviru...cal_care_doctor_working_in_a_uk_high/fla4cux/

I'm not sure if it was posted before, because this thread is fast. I think it's interesting to read it from the front line.
I question why this is more reliable then previous reports from "doctors" on the internet.After all, remember the doctors posting how horrible mechanical ventilators are to be in? Like, yeah, no shit, there is a reason people are usually put into a coma for such a procedure, did you pay ANY attention during orientation for this equipment in medical school?

"many units are full". There are 200 hospitalizations, according to one of his own comments 11 hours ago. So your system is running out of units at 200 patients? "The last time we talked, there were around 20 patients admitted to critical care for COVID nationally. A week after that post, that number was over 200 confirmed (with at least as many suspected cases) across the country. In London, the number has been doubling every few days. " And not all do those 200 patients are on ventilators, many will be on oxygen begin watched by medical personnel. How many units are full, and how many are there? No specifics given.

"the virus causes an unusually large proportion of patients to require invasive ventilatory support "

OK, we know that more people need hospitalized then normal. How many is "an unusually large proportion"? You have 200 hospitalized, if normally 2 need a ventilator and you currently have 6 on a ventilator, that would be an unusually large amount. We need context here.

"early large scale testing, and social distancing measures, are effective at stopping exponential growth "

Wait hang on.

I thought units were running out, and the cases in london were doubling every few days? So how would you know that social distancing was effective? Furthermore, "we do not have sufficient testing capability for even hospital patients, who sometimes wait days for a test result. There are not enough tests for anyone in the community, or any healthcare workers who might have symptoms. " so how would you know if large scale testing would be effective, if you dont have it and have never had it in your country? You have no idea how many people are currently sick, you have no idea how many serious cases are turning critical. For all you know 25% of the country could be infected already and only 200 beds are currently in use, or it could be 4% of the population. You dont have testing, you have no idea whether social distancing is effective.

This reads like a young doctor frustrated at going through their first pandemic. We've heard the same from overwhelmed young doctors in various countries, and the only country currently in active collapse is italy.
 
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