Snowflake Chloe Wilkinson / DissociaDID and Nanette Zuniga / Nan / TeamPinata

[leadhanded]

Nan is a fucking freak and that sneezing shit CREEPED ME OUT, especially with my hay-fever playing up at the moment I did not need to know that was a thing, I am definitely taking double dose of antihistamine from now on for sure.

Yeah, it's fucking disgusting, I've already decided to sew my nose shut so I don't have to worry about degenerates with sneeze fetishes anymore, rather die than enter their personal spank bank.

Do you guys think Nan uses their snot as lube when they masturbate? Like maybe they just blow their nose onto their cooch and have at it? Do you think they've made Chloe sneeze on them when they are getting dirty? Do you think they've used Chloe's snot as lube? Enjoy those visuals when you're trying to sleep tonight kiwis!

 

[Jewthulhu]

Thank you so much for this detailed breakdown. My question is really about the last study. It seems that studies like this specifically exclude DID and control patients who are suspected or diagnosed with HPD. Shouldn't this work be done for HPD, as well, since they are the ones faking symptoms like this? What about other dissociative disorders and trauma-based disorders which don't present as full fledged people that we feel aren't reconcilable? What kind of DID presentations were these?

It feels like it lacks depth considering the implications of what we see in the media with fabrications.

You typically want to limit the number of variables you're testing in a study like this. Scientific studies usually focus in on a very narrow question and try to answer it to the best of their abilities. Since this study simply wants to examine the resting-state cerebral activity of DID patients, they should only be testing DID patients and controls. A neurological studies of malingerers would be interesting, but it would be extremely hard to preserve quality of evidence in that case. Psychological malingering can be hard to spot, and it can be argued that presentation would be different when they know they're caught compared to when they're still getting away with it.

I will admit that I'd like to see a psychological assessment of subjects in studies like these. Mental disorders usually have a range of symptoms and severity, so just because someone is diagnosed with something doesn't always mean they will be psychologically congruent. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, just a simple scoring system for specific "traits" of the studied disorder that can be statistically controlled for when doing the data analysis portion.

 

[Cooking Mama]

RE: the TikToks, I couldn't get past the Gnarls Barkley one. Unreal how they make light of literally every aspect of the disorder they spew to take seriously.

See, I don’t mind when people who actually have a disorder/illness joke about it. I know people IRL who do that as a way to cope and because, sometimes, you just have to laugh at yourself or you might start crying. But, with these two it’s... just revolting. It sure must be nice to be able to make all this money by fooling your gullible teen audience and to be able to make fun of a disorder you most certainly do not have on top of it. Fucking incredible.

Do you guys think Nan uses their snot as lube when they masturbate? Like maybe they just blow their nose onto their cooch and have at it? Do you think they've made Chloe sneeze on them when they are getting dirty? Do you think they've used Chloe's snot as lube? Enjoy those visuals when you're trying to sleep tonight kiwis!

You son of a bitch.



How dare you put these evil thoughts into my head. I will never know peace! I’m fucking reporting this to the cyber police, you go too far!

 

[heavycream]

they should only be testing DID patients and controls

You can have more than one control group in a psychological study, in fact, that is advised. And typically one of those controls should be neurodivergent, not just typical. When you do a subtractive fMRI you need to take everything into account not just the specific condition, but the presence of abnormality in general (i.e. random vs fixed factor designs).

--

Putting aside the reams of false-memory research that explains how peoples' entire lives and self-concepts can be naively constructed in the therapist's office (see Elizabeth Loftus' work for starters), I mentioned the whole 'just because it's in the DSM doesn't make it valid' thing in a previous post but i'll go into more detail now.

The Diagnostic Statistical Manual (which, by the way, isn't used for diagnosis in the UK, just research) was originally devised by a group of psychiatrists quite literally just naming what they thought should be entries because they felt it was necessary to have a categorical means of separating people. Sure, there's a lot more that goes into the deliberations now but ultimately the categories of the DSM are subjective. People who say 'research supports the diagnoses in the DSM' are misled by the circularity of it all, since it is very difficult to get research funding or publication without proposing that you're going to study a categorical delineation already in the DSM.
For example, it's pretty much consensus that depression is a spectrum that extends from healthy individuals to those with the clinical disorder, yet you will not as easily be able to study 'depressive symptoms' than a named disorder like 'major depressive disorder'. The same goes for DID. Anyone who believes DID exists says so because it's in the DSM, and because of research designed to find a difference between a categorical DID group and a categorical 'non-DID' group.
Tides are shifting away from DSM type conceptualisation of mental illnesses, especially with accumulating research that employs modern data analysis techniques (e.g. comparison curve-fit indexing and other taxometric analysis algorithms) suggesting the way we classify disorders is completely unrepresentative of what's actually out there in the general population (See: Haslam, Holland & Kuppens, 2012).
Graph below shows how, from looking at the symptoms and justification for diagnosed patients, almost every kind of disorder doesn't meet the stringency to categorise people as has/doesn't have.

Not to sound like a conspiracy nutcase, but the only people who still have a vested interest in upholding categorical distinctions are those who make money from selling treatments specifically marketed to a particular condition, or companies that make a profit from shilling certain diagnoses...
Hmm...

 

[comrade666]

Those tests are far from reliable.
It'd be so easy to get a diagnosis of DID even if you definitely don't have it.
I feel like something like DID can't be unconvered in a few hours, filling out forms.

To me it just seems like it's the current trendy diagnosis. Before it was BPD, before than Anorexia. Honestly every few years there seems to be some sort of mental illness that a bunch of people like to romanticise for whatever sick reason

The thing that has me suspicious about the diagnosis after having just filled in a few forms is how can they be sure there is a history of abuse or other repeated trauma in such a short space of time? Particularly if amnesia prevents the host from remembering trauma? Surely uncovering the trauma would take months of therapy at minimum and without trauma you can't diagnose DID. Why is Remy not investigating alternatives before jumping to the conclusion that it must be DID?

Take Chloe as an example. She doesn't even know if she has trauma but she assumes that she does based on her other 'symptoms'. Why was that enough for Remy to jump to DID? Why was there no work done to rule out another cause? Why was there no work done to establish whether there was any trauma? Likely because she couldn't afford to pay for that amount of work.

Listen, I can understand young teens playing this game for a bit of attention dying their hair blue and making cringy Tik Toks to emo music showing their Angry Alter or whatever, but then growing the fuck up and dying from embarrassment when they look back. These people are 20 and 30 the cringe I feel watching those videos and Tik Toks is NEXT level.

Those teenagers are their audience. Best case scenario they'll look back at cringe and worst case scenario they'll end up going into the mental health system and coming out with a diagnosis that closes a lot of doors for them for the rest of their lives. Being The Sunshine System is fun when you're fourteen but when you hit your twenties and you're still strapped in on the special bus your imaginary friends aren't going to save you.

Of course, all 22 of them are eager, willing and able (particularly the children who probably wouldn't know how to use a computer at their age) to participate in and upload to her Youtube channel, and don't just, you know, go completely apeshit when they find themselves at the business end of a camera at random.

They're very talented. In this Tik Tok she even manages to convince all of her 'persecutor' alters to do a lip-sync collaboration at five in the morning. All of them are happy to oblige.

See, I don’t mind when people who actually have a disorder/illness joke about it. I know people IRL who do that as a way to cope and because, sometimes, you just have to laugh at yourself or you might start crying. But, with these two it’s... just revolting. It sure must be nice to be able to make all this money by fooling your gullible teen audience and to be able to make fun of a disorder you most certainly do not have on top of it. Fucking incredible.

I'm all for gallows humour but as you say Chloe just doesn't hit the mark. She makes a caricature of the disorder. I also find it interesting that she's able to act out her dissociative state and emotional distress for Tik Toks. I remember in the video with her friend Anna she was acting surprised when Anna told her that she looks spaced out and has wide eyes when she dissociates. And yet she can perfectly replicate the expression for a Tik Tok. She's also more than happy to fake emotional distress. It makes me certain she's faking just about everything else.

In other news, she posted a Tik Tok last night that reveals what her childhood trauma was. Apparently, her parents didn't buy her a Bop It. Poor kid.

An hour later, she posted a Tik Tok as one of her 'persecutors'. A few hours later she reacted to it as Nin. She hints that she has a new 'persecutor' alter which lmao cool bring them in. This new persecutor was more than happy to record a Tik Tok making a fool of themselves and remembered to tag their role in the system, along with the name of the 'onyx system' they dueted with. This brand new alter is pretty savvy already.
I also wonder how she can tell the difference between her alters. How does she know this isn't Kyle, Jade, or Ruby? She shouldn't be able to tell because she isn't around when they 'front'.

 

[Gramh]

The TikToks make me wonder honestly if their fans are paying attention to both that and Youtube, and how they can come up with a defensible position internally. The cognitive dissonance at work here would almost make for a more fascinating psychological study than any DID case.

 

[DissociaDONT]

In other news, she posted a Tik Tok last night that reveals what her childhood trauma was. Apparently, her parents didn't buy her a Bop It. Poor kid.

I can't tell if she's trying to be funny or genuinely feels this is indicative of an abusive childhood... which says a lot. God, that's obnoxious. Best case scenario, she's still minimizing traumatic childhoods.

I know you guys looked through her old tumblr. Did you happen upon the link to this in the process?

I feel like it's really indicative one of her more problematic personality traits I don't see talked about a lot. She has a martyr complex. That's a word I see her throw around a lot even now. "Martyr." She genuinely feels she's stepping up and helping people and being a voice for the voiceless. Which, obviously, is a real bad, guilt-trippy and self-aggrandizing way to go about mental health advocacy. Like going into a job interview and, with all sincerity, telling them that your biggest flaw is you work too hard.

 

[comrade666]

I can't tell if she's trying to be funny or genuinely feels this is indicative of an abusive childhood... which says a lot. God, that's obnoxious. Best case scenario, she's still minimizing traumatic childhoods.

I know you guys looked through her old tumblr. Did you happen upon the link to this in the process?

I feel like it's really indicative one of her more problematic personality traits I don't see talked about a lot. She has a martyr complex. That's a word I see her throw around a lot even now. "Martyr." She genuinely feels she's stepping up and helping people and being a voice for the voiceless. Which, obviously, is a real bad, guilt-trippy and self-aggrandizing way to go about mental health advocacy. Like going into a job interview and, with all sincerity, telling them that your biggest flaw is you work too hard.

What do you miss most from childhood?
Being happy and careless and free, being able to run away with my imagination, and not worrying about it. I was so happy.

Lmao sounds fucking horrible.

 

[leadhanded]

-how they can come up with a defensible position internally...

They probably don't have to, they just accept what's given at face value and write fanfiction of Riven and Nin yiffing in their free time. They think DID as Chloe portrays it is cute and quirky and has some "uwu sad angsty *~soft boy~* that needs love n hugs!!!" spliced in there also. More than likely they don't see at anything more than a cool personality trait or a cool character quirk. They don't even need cognitive dissonance because they don't understand what it is in the first place or at least what it's supposed to be.

 

[rot]

she made a tiktok as "Nin", doing a duet with her as "Nina" in the past, then later made a tiktok as "Nina" and "Chloe" again?? big oopsie

from that ask.fm:

What's your dream job?
over 1 year ago
I dream of being a Psychiatrist

hmmm....


Edit: of course, in the past she referred to herself as "I" instead of the cringey "we" she does now. Just something I noticed

 

[Rigor Meowtis]

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she made a tiktok as "Nin", doing a duet with her as "Nina" in the past, then later made a tiktok as "Nina" and "Chloe" again?? big oopsie

Can’t believe Nina was revived from the grave! How wonderful it must be for Chloe to have one of her old alters back.

I wonder how she’s going to explain this.

 

[rot]

Sorry, yet again, for double posting but:

this is quite a response to an anon like this for someone who claims they were sexually abused repeatedly in the past so badly it caused them to form DID

Wait, I thought hats were Kyle's thing, not Chloe's?

 

[Cooking Mama]

I'm all for gallows humour but as you say Chloe just doesn't hit the mark. She makes a caricature of the disorder. I also find it interesting that she's able to act out her dissociative state and emotional distress for Tik Toks. I remember in the video with her friend Anna she was acting surprised when Anna told her that she looks spaced out and has wide eyes when she dissociates. And yet she can perfectly replicate the expression for a Tik Tok. She's also more than happy to fake emotional distress. It makes me certain she's faking just about everything else.

To be fair, she could just be “reenacting” from what she’s seen of her switching on camera in one of her vids. But, it’s so on point that it does make you wonder... I’m sure she’ll play it off as reenacting or she actually did do a switch and the other alter was in on the joke because lol we’re all friends here and have so much fun

An hour later, she posted a Tik Tok as one of her 'persecutors'. A few hours later she reacted to it as Nin.

girl, what reaction? She looked completely unimpressed, widened her eyes a bit, and then looked away from the camera like she was utterly embarrassed. I would be to if I were her.

this is quite a response to an anon like this for someone who claims they were sexually abused repeatedly in the past so badly it caused them to form DID

wow, much abuse. So trigger. Many trauma.

So, how long do you guys think it’ll take before there’s a tea spill video and half her fans stop watching her and the other half goes completely rabid with defending her? You know, I was thinking this earlier, but as a “mental health advocate” who promotes “mental wellness” and “safe spaces” and all that and talks about how she was abused, I haven’t once seen her tell her fans to stop attacking Trisha or that one doctor who made a video on her.

kinda makes you think

also, to the new farmers: edit your post, do not double post. People are going to get on you about that if you keep doing it. If you don’t know how, it’s the three white dots on the bottom of your post next to the report button. There you can also delete your posts as well.

 

[heterotic]

See, I don’t mind when people who actually have a disorder/illness joke about it. I know people IRL who do that as a way to cope and because, sometimes, you just have to laugh at yourself or you might start crying. But, with these two it’s... just revolting.

The issue for me is that it's 1) on a public platform - I have friends who joke about their depression and anxiety in group situations where it can't do any harm and come off as mocking. 2) they both vehemently express that no one should be mocking or sensationalizing the disorder or symptoms - THEY BOTH DO IT ALL THE TIME.

You can have more than one control group in a psychological study, in fact, that is advised. And typically one of those controls should be neurodivergent, not just typical. When you do a subtractive fMRI you need to take everything into account not just the specific condition, but the presence of abnormality in general (i.e. random vs fixed factor designs).

That's kind of what I was thinking. Thanks for validating that.

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Roleplaying as alters? Almost like they are all roleplaying? HMMMM

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this is quite a response to an anon like this for someone who claims they were sexually abused repeatedly in the past so badly it caused them to form DID

This is so disgusting.

The thing that has me suspicious about the diagnosis after having just filled in a few forms is how can they be sure there is a history of abuse or other repeated trauma in such a short space of time? Particularly if amnesia prevents the host from remembering trauma? Surely uncovering the trauma would take months of therapy at minimum and without trauma you can't diagnose DID. Why is Remy not investigating alternatives before jumping to the conclusion that it must be DID?

Take Chloe as an example. She doesn't even know if she has trauma but she assumes that she does based on her other 'symptoms'. Why was that enough for Remy to jump to DID? Why was there no work done to rule out another cause? Why was there no work done to establish whether there was any trauma? Likely because she couldn't afford to pay for that amount of work.

Exactly. Find reputable physicians talking about dissociative disorders. They say that the first step after noting any dissociative symptoms, and even notating seemingly shifting identity states, is to look for signs and evidence of sustained childhood trauma.

In other news, she posted a Tik Tok last night that reveals what her childhood trauma was. Apparently, her parents didn't buy her a Bop It. Poor kid.
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Imagine not understanding that this is to gauge how old you were in the 90's. She was born in 1998 for christ's sake.

Bop-It: Released in 1996 and one of the most popular Christmas toys that year, for children aged 8 and up. Chloe wasn't born yet. In 2000, Bop It was re-released, with its popularity peaking in the summer of 2003 with Bop It Extreme. Chloe was 4 years old.

Kenan & Kel: Was on Nickelodeon from 1996-2000, geared toward 8-11 year olds. Was in syndication from 2001-2004. Chloe was ages not born-6 while it was on television.

Fresh Prince of Bel-Air was on from 1990-1996, recommended for ages 14+. Was in syndication in the UK on BBC2 from 1997-2004. Chloe was ages not born-6 while it was on television.

Furby: Released in 1998, for children 6+, peaked in popularity in 1999. Sales were discontinued in 2000. In 2005, when robotic toys were quite popular for kids, Furby was re-released as "Emoto-Tronic". They were not a very popular toy that year, and Christmas that year was dominated overwhelmingly by Playstation and X-Box sales. Chloe was an infant when Furbies were a part of pop culture.

Bad Boys: Released in 1995, rated R (17+). Chloe wasn't born.

Tupac Shakur's assassination: September 13, 1996. Chloe wasn't born. Rest in peace, there's a heaven for a G

Floppy Disks: In 1998, iMac was released without a floppy drive. Other personal computer manufacturer's like Dell, followed suit by making instead USB and CD Drives in place of floppy drives. CD-RW and Flash-drives had pretty much replaced floppy disks by 2002. Chloe was 4.

9/11: September 11, 2001. Chloe was 2.

Vanilla Ice: Had 2 hits. Ice Ice Baby released in 1990. Play That Funky Music released in 1991. Dated Madonna in 1991-1992. After 1993, was really only seen in tabloids and obscure reality tv, and some guest vocals in the late 90's. Again, Chloe wasn't born.

Also, how was this 90s edition check for CD players. He should have asked if you owned a WALKMAN.

 

[Lieileen]

I can't tell if she's trying to be funny or genuinely feels this is indicative of an abusive childhood... which says a lot. God, that's obnoxious. Best case scenario, she's still minimizing traumatic childhoods.

I know you guys looked through her old tumblr. Did you happen upon the link to this in the process?

I feel like it's really indicative one of her more problematic personality traits I don't see talked about a lot. She has a martyr complex. That's a word I see her throw around a lot even now. "Martyr." She genuinely feels she's stepping up and helping people and being a voice for the voiceless. Which, obviously, is a real bad, guilt-trippy and self-aggrandizing way to go about mental health advocacy. Like going into a job interview and, with all sincerity, telling them that your biggest flaw is you work too hard.

I was looking through the Asks last night before falling asleep. Between that and her tumblr, she looks like an angsty teen. She even mentions being happy as a child in one ask. She also gives her dad as one of the people she’d pick to spend every day with for the rest of her life

I’m currently trying to piece together what I can on her family and see if there actually is anything which might point to non-abuse trauma.

It’s a bit difficult to narrow down when you have such a non-descript English name but I think I have the right family. Will update on that.

 

[BScaller!]

this is quite a response to an anon like this for someone who claims they were sexually abused repeatedly in the past so badly it caused them to form DID

What is this from? Sorry I got a bit lost..this is absolutely sickening. Also good find on Nin posting Nina's reaction lol

 

[rot]

What is this from? Sorry I got a bit lost

her ask.fm account

 

[braginskayas]

The way these DID YouTubers portray the condition is like an episode of goddamn Sanders Sides. Maybe I'm just a fucking idiot but I really cannot grasp the idea of all the alters chilling in some kind of imaginary mind palace when they're not fronting as if that's an actual thing? I've seen a fair few videos of people describing their "inner worlds" and it always sounds like an imaginary game of Sims, or some kind of high fantasy RPG setting. A lot of supposed alters seem to have suspiciously fantasy-ish names and "appearances", too. Even if these people have legit dissociative disorders I refuse to believe that's an intrinsic part of the condition and not some form of maladaptive daydreaming or elaborate LARPing.

I mean, in general part of why DID in particular is such a controversial diagnosis is because some believe a lot of cases are therapist-induced, which checks out with the fact that Chloe/Nin was seemingly diagnosed by a quack. I take huge issue with the fact that (from what I gather reading this thread) she was diagnosed based on the assumption that she has repressed trauma memories, since the cause of her condition is unknown. Techniques used to help patients "recover" repressed trauma memories have been known to induce false memories of stuff which never actually happened and honestly, it would not surprise me if that was the case here.

 

[Gramh]

her ask.fm account

Wow looking through that is rough. Her fans seem to have been as thirsty then as they are now for Chloe.

 

[Shrryph1]

See, I don’t mind when people who actually have a disorder/illness joke about it. I know people IRL who do that as a way to cope and because, sometimes, you just have to laugh at yourself or you might start crying. But, with these two it’s... just revolting. It sure must be nice to be able to make all this money by fooling your gullible teen audience and to be able to make fun of a disorder you most certainly do not have on top of it. Fucking incredible.

This is sort of my MO. I have a chronic physical illness and my mental health really is just a mess. I joke about both because at a point you just have to throw up your hands and be, “Welp, this is what it is, it’s absurd and annoying but it’s the cards I’m playing.” That’s just life and gallows humor is part of observing our lot. Because when you take a step back, life is pretty absurd and inscrutable anyway. People get offended FOR me, which is even sillier. No one wants pity. And guess some people do. But then they go on to make YouTube channels and make money from their staged pity party.