- Joined
- Aug 20, 2014
You're right about one thing, really.
You're right about one thing, really.
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2019
To add to this, Future as a whole exists because Sugar read a book about child psychology while I’m 90% sure she mentioned that Steven going on a trip was based on what Zach Callison did after a bad breakup. And I’m probably missing more examples.
I do realize that many stories are written based on real life experiences and simple serendipity on the writer’s part, but as Panther pointed out, she comes off more of someone with ADHD
One of the best write ups on both OK KO and SU. And all this really is disappointing because as mentioned before, Ian really is a talented guy. Even Sugar showed a lot of promise with some of her earlier comics and short films. You have to wonder what the hell happened once they got their own shows.
Honestly, Lars turning into a space captain was one of the worst things examples of “character development” on the show, along with wasted potential and gratuitous anime references, further compounded Sugar’s off the fly writing style.
But the reference itself was nice and it’s good to know the crew are in touch with the classics.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2016
Is Ruby's VA that bad at acting/singing or is it put on?
I'd like to give a perspective I haven't seen anyone else cover here, but surely some of you are drawfags who make OCs and all that jazz, right? I can't see into Sugar's head but I'm getting something when I look at her personal sketches of Pink Diamond. Just look at them.
If you check the gallery on the wiki there's more sketches by Sugar of Pink looking wistful, beseeching the other Diamonds that dwarf her or treating her Pearl kindly. She's idealized. For an artist known for making things deliberately ugly as all fuck to draw one of her characters like this I can't help but feel Pink Diamond is something of an author's pet to her.
I'd like to give a perspective I haven't seen anyone else cover here, but surely some of you are drawfags who make OCs and all that jazz, right? I can't see into Sugar's head but I'm getting something when I look at her personal sketches of Pink Diamond. Just look at them.
Also I truly wish the show hadn't fucked up and that they actually pulled off her complexity. I think one of the biggest mistakes they made was that they never really did anything to bridge PD's immaturity and selfish desire for a colony with Rose's agape-like love for life that made her a martyr figure. It seemed like PD latched onto organic life and her Pearls/Spinel/other "toys" as a selfish distraction from her poor relationship with the other diamonds. I don't like how it took us this long for that reveal to be shown, and then we're thrown into the weird fairytale princess themes where all of their problems stemmed from "family" even though they were nothing but genocidal space aliens beforehand who don't know what babies or parents are.
I'd personally cut all that stuff and keep the Diamonds as goddess-like figures, whether it's early SU and "magical" or later when they crank up the alien technology elements. Never, ever dip into trying to make them relatable or human or funny, only Pink gets to do that as part of her arc in becoming Rose. In that last episode, WD talked about being the most perfect diamond while the other two are technically flawed which is why they only reflect one colour instead of all of them. In this rewrite, it's still true, but make it clear that's what also makes the coloured Diamonds specialized (White could do everything herself but she can't be everywhere at once across galaxies and so needs them). Pink's flaw but also her strength is her empathy/love and, while the other Diamonds don't trust their youngest to do big girl big brain PURE LOGIK tasks yet, they let her play faux ambassador (at her suggestion) and find that she is very good at talking other planets into assimilation "for their own good" which is a positive - albeit it chafes on Yellow's warmaster ways - because they (still) have a resource problem and can't afford to wage real wars anymore. Her arc is all about giving up her status (and then her existence) for the sake of others, keep portraying her as a young and uncertain goddess like those pretty sketches above, but avoid the bratty whining because she was never a child.
By the time they want to take over Earth, PD has spent enough time there to truly appreciate the creatures on it and feels a strong sense of longing for it, because ironically life there is more like her (capable of love) than her own Diamonds who don't and can never reciprocate her love for them. They're aware she has these feelings, that specialization the rest of them aren't capable of, but they don't understand it beyond using it as a tool to benefit Homeworld. She'd become Rose out of a desire to be able to love for its own sake rather than politics, has Steven to contribute to a species that seems happier for being able to experience all of this.
I know this would ruin a bit of the premise but I'd honestly change Rose to use up her gem like a battery for some kind of Earth-shielding nuke spell to btfo the Diamonds and repel their invasion like on that one mural, it doesn't become part of Steven but he gets a toy-worthy/magical girl trinket thing with his mother's gem in it. Instead of one of the existing plot twists, one of the Crystal Gems' secrets is that they know the invasion was only delayed and they really are training Steven, albeit reluctantly, to deal with his mother's mess and they're only fucking around with it because they want him to enjoy being a normal kid as long as possible like she would've wanted. That gives a stronger reason to transition away from the slice of life stuff to more action, more Homeworld, instead of a random Peridot failing a spot check. It also doesn't allow for the weird "I am my mother" shit that pops up near the end, that's just confusing and offputting for a kid to watch.
I'd personally cut all that stuff and keep the Diamonds as goddess-like figures, whether it's early SU and "magical" or later when they crank up the alien technology elements. Never, ever dip into trying to make them relatable or human or funny, only Pink gets to do that as part of her arc in becoming Rose. In that last episode, WD talked about being the most perfect diamond while the other two are technically flawed which is why they only reflect one colour instead of all of them. In this rewrite, it's still true, but make it clear that's what also makes the coloured Diamonds specialized (White could do everything herself but she can't be everywhere at once across galaxies and so needs them). Pink's flaw but also her strength is her empathy/love and, while the other Diamonds don't trust their youngest to do big girl big brain PURE LOGIK tasks yet, they let her play faux ambassador (at her suggestion) and find that she is very good at talking other planets into assimilation "for their own good" which is a positive - albeit it chafes on Yellow's warmaster ways - because they (still) have a resource problem and can't afford to wage real wars anymore. Her arc is all about giving up her status (and then her existence) for the sake of others, keep portraying her as a young and uncertain goddess like those pretty sketches above, but avoid the bratty whining because she was never a child.
By the time they want to take over Earth, PD has spent enough time there to truly appreciate the creatures on it and feels a strong sense of longing for it, because ironically life there is more like her (capable of love) than her own Diamonds who don't and can never reciprocate her love for them. They're aware she has these feelings, that specialization the rest of them aren't capable of, but they don't understand it beyond using it as a tool to benefit Homeworld. She'd become Rose out of a desire to be able to love for its own sake rather than politics, has Steven to contribute to a species that seems happier for being able to experience all of this.
I know this would ruin a bit of the premise but I'd honestly change Rose to use up her gem like a battery for some kind of Earth-shielding nuke spell to btfo the Diamonds and repel their invasion like on that one mural, it doesn't become part of Steven but he gets a toy-worthy/magical girl trinket thing with his mother's gem in it. Instead of one of the existing plot twists, one of the Crystal Gems' secrets is that they know the invasion was only delayed and they really are training Steven, albeit reluctantly, to deal with his mother's mess and they're only fucking around with it because they want him to enjoy being a normal kid as long as possible like she would've wanted. That gives a stronger reason to transition away from the slice of life stuff to more action, more Homeworld, instead of a random Peridot failing a spot check. It also doesn't allow for the weird "I am my mother" shit that pops up near the end, that's just confusing and offputting for a kid to watch.
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2019
Now that you mention her, I am still a bit torn about what to think about Rose Quartz.
Don't get me wrong I do think she was a spoiled brat and ultimately the real villain of the show. But not in the way the crystal gems thought. Pink Diamond did a lot more damage by making others care for her and then ditching them than she could ever have as a simple evil tyrant.
That being said, as much as I hate to admit it, the crystal gem rebellion was the only reason humanity survived instead of being wiped out by an uber powerful alien race in the Steven Universe world. And the very creation of Steven that ended her existence was supposed to be the epitome of her change as the "enlightened" Rose Quartz. Even if it was a ploy to escape responsibility, it did end up her freedom as an individual forever so maybe it was also in part a punishment for her.
However, I'm not sure if I buy her redemption because even after she became "enlightened" as Rose Quartz, and supposedly loved humanity and life, she still had the fatal flaw that she was incapable of considering anyone's feelings that weren't her own.
Rose Quartz could go on a speech about how every single experience in life is unique and precious... and have Spinel be miserable for thousands of years or ignore the feelings of her millennia-old companion Pearl.
Don't get me wrong I do think she was a spoiled brat and ultimately the real villain of the show. But not in the way the crystal gems thought. Pink Diamond did a lot more damage by making others care for her and then ditching them than she could ever have as a simple evil tyrant.
That being said, as much as I hate to admit it, the crystal gem rebellion was the only reason humanity survived instead of being wiped out by an uber powerful alien race in the Steven Universe world. And the very creation of Steven that ended her existence was supposed to be the epitome of her change as the "enlightened" Rose Quartz. Even if it was a ploy to escape responsibility, it did end up her freedom as an individual forever so maybe it was also in part a punishment for her.
However, I'm not sure if I buy her redemption because even after she became "enlightened" as Rose Quartz, and supposedly loved humanity and life, she still had the fatal flaw that she was incapable of considering anyone's feelings that weren't her own.
Rose Quartz could go on a speech about how every single experience in life is unique and precious... and have Spinel be miserable for thousands of years or ignore the feelings of her millennia-old companion Pearl.
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- Joined
- Jan 17, 2016
Just by going off what I saw in the show, and it has been a while, I don't get why she had to give up her form. With all the Diamond magic bullshit you'd think she could keep her own body like she selfishly could and yet she finds another way to be selfish by doing what appears to be the most selfless thing possible.
They should have thought long and hard then cut those scenes where you see Steven unable to tell whether he's Pink or Rose and PD's original form rise out of his gem. It has some really unfortunate implications when you consider Steven fusing with his own dad and everything about his relation to all four of his parental figures. If this were an adult show they could've explored some fresh grounds and acknowledge the shift between "boy shouldering his mother's legacy" to the fan theories about Pink getting away with everything in yet another identity that's catching up to her/him but nah, they insist Pink is really gone.
They should have thought long and hard then cut those scenes where you see Steven unable to tell whether he's Pink or Rose and PD's original form rise out of his gem. It has some really unfortunate implications when you consider Steven fusing with his own dad and everything about his relation to all four of his parental figures. If this were an adult show they could've explored some fresh grounds and acknowledge the shift between "boy shouldering his mother's legacy" to the fan theories about Pink getting away with everything in yet another identity that's catching up to her/him but nah, they insist Pink is really gone.
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2019
That actually can make some sense, if you think Rose Quartz wanted a son/daughter and not merely create life. As Pink diamond, she already created a lot of life with the many metaphorical daughters with all the gems made to serve her.
But the only way to have a son/daughter like a human is to have him or her be 50% of the DNA of the mother and the father. And the only way Rose could give that 50% of herself was ending her existence.
Still not sure if I buy it was ultimately a selfless act, as it seems more like another ploy to just escape responsibility once she got tired of LARPING as Rose, but it did end up creating Steven who actually is an improvement over her.
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- Joined
- Jul 31, 2019
Just because you give people with promise power, doesn't mean they will use that power or promise.
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2019
That same VA actually did a music number on We Bare Bears
We Bare Bears | Chloe & Ice Bear Duet | Cartoon Network
Chloe and Ice Bear sing a duet about finding happiness in each other's friendship. CN GAMES: http://bit.ly/CNGames SUBSCRIBE: http://bit.ly/109Y6wq WATCH MOR...
youtu.be
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2016
...Well at least she's given characters that should sound like that. I suppose it's 'funny' but trying to sing like that seems like it'll strain her and damage her voice even more.That same VA actually did a music number on We Bare Bears
Needless to say, no she is not putting anyone on, that’s how she sings and acts.We Bare Bears | Chloe & Ice Bear Duet | Cartoon Network
Chloe and Ice Bear sing a duet about finding happiness in each other's friendship. CN GAMES: http://bit.ly/CNGames SUBSCRIBE: http://bit.ly/109Y6wq WATCH MOR...
edit: They insist that fusion isn't just romantic okay, I would roll with that if they just gave more examples. But come on, here's our biggest fusion expert:
S: "I've seen gems fuse before but I had no idea that's what it felt like! I always thought- I never realised that fusion- that you disappear like that."
R: "I've never had a third eye before-"
S: "I've never had more than one! ...It was nice."
R: "And you hadn't before?"
S: "Of course not! When would I have ever?"
>the embarrassed blush
This is as close as you can get to putting pillow talk into a kids show.
Or maybe I just have a really dirty mind.
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One Man Bland
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2017
Pretty much this. Daddy issues mean you hate your own dad but are constantly thirsting for a father figure.
I think the primary problem with trying to draw any conclusions on Rose/Pink creating Steven is that, after 6 seasons and a movie, we still don have the slightest clue on the Why.
Which stems from the fact that SU/Sugar tends to not give audiences answers, only suggestions of answers. From the flashbacks we were shown, we have scenes & 1 song that suggest that the Steven ball got rolling when Rose realized she is incapable of loving anything the way Greg and others loved her, that suggest that Rose felt limited and incapable of change where humans are changing constantly, that even some moments that suggest that Gems are more like advanced semi-magical AIs and Rose giving up her form to create Steven means her "programming" is being over-written by Steven’s memories and experiences until Rose will eventually be lost completely, but that’s all they are - suggestions. And because of that we are no closer to understanding character who was such a prominent driving force to the plot than we were when we started.
The worst part is, I can’t even fathom why that is. The first season seems to suggest that Steven will be the one who comes to know Rose better than even the Gems did after thousands of years, and they even presented the perfect means of accomplishing that when they show Rose made Steven a video tape. It would’ve been extremely easy to give audiences more about Rose through more such tapes - or just making use of that simulation room Rose has - and you’d be able to give way more insight to Rose as a character outside of the flashbacks.
While Book 3 definitely has some of the weakest episodes/moments - namely because they clearly had a really good idea for a mid-season finale, and plenty of material to flesh out once Zuko comes around for Sozin‘s comet, they still had to fill the first half of the season up with something that didn’t contradict the whole "this is a covert operation" thing so they were stuck just spinning a wheel for several episodes - but I would gladly take the flaws of Book 3 over SU.
If ATLA were written like SU, then the first two episodes would’ve been stretched out into an entire season, it would take 3 seasons to even mention the Fire Nation, another season to mention the Fire Lord, and the finale would’ve been a rush job ending Aang going "hey maybe setting everything on fire isn’t cool" and a big party where we’re supposed to just pretend that all the fucked up shit that the villains did is fine now.
(Totally agree that the writing of Book 3 was a prelude to the terrible comics & Korra’s bullshit writing though. It’s the same reason why I don’t get why anyone’s excited for the live action series either when all evidence shows that it’s basically just going to be the remake equivalent of the Star Wars prequels.)
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- Joined
- Jul 31, 2019
The pacing of SU is one the worst of any show. the fact it took seven goddamn years to reach a plot point most other shows could do in 2-3 episodes tops is insane.
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2019
To give you an idea on how bad the pacing is; things didn’t get really interesting until Ocean Gem, which was episode 26. Things didn’t pick up again until Jail Break which was episode 53. In between all that was a mix of filler and actually interesting episodes; an this was just season 1.
Funny enough, fans always blame Cartoon Network of all people for not giving them enough episodes, causing things to get rushed.
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- Jul 17, 2019
I've always heard the argument "if they had more episode or if episodes were longer, then maybe would fix pacing of the show" but if that the case, then just further proves that the show makers did such a poor job planning ahead for their own episodes and ended up wasting time on episodes that ultimately didn't matter in the end.
Steven Universe waste so much time on stuff that ultimately didn't matter at the end, such as Nana becoming mayor, Sadie becoming a singer, Lars becoming a captain, Lapis trauma and so many more subplots that amounted to nothing or just forced in because the crew of SU had no idea to conclude these subplots or resolute them in and meaningful way.
This is a by-product of Sugar and "friends" not being able to plan their story properly and even when they were given 20 fore their final season SUF, they still managed to screw it up.
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- Jan 15, 2019
Let me the Devil's Advocate, but I'll argue that SUF had more focus, despite it not really focusing on any other characters other than Steven, than the original series.
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- Jul 31, 2019
Yeah it had more focus, but that doesn't mean much when what's being focused is tedious and boring. Doesn't help the previous two or so seasons where exclusively focused on Steven and his issues over everyone else's, which makes Future more unbearable since we have to go through more of Stevens whiney shit.
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2019
I thought it was interesting
WAY more interesting than whatever the fuck seasons 4-5 were. Steven wasn't really as whiny in Future, it seemed like he was more desperate.
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2019
I used to think that SU was hampered down by it’s running time and maybe if it was given a 30 minute runtime like Gravity Falls, it could work better...then I saw Over the Garden Wall and Infinity Train, which also ran for 11 minutes each episode. And what do you know; despite having a limited set of episodes and quarter hour runtime, the shows were much better paced and no episode ever felt like a waste of time. So you can make a 11 minute run time work if you’re a good writer.
Steven was whiny in the same sense Shinji Ikari is; while I can see that the problems are serious and sympathetic, the actual character is so unlikable and annoying that it’s whiny. OG Steven didn’t get too bad until towards the end (ie the break up arc), which should have been a red flag.
You know, with the constant Shinji comparisons, I wonder if this was intentional on Sugar’s part.
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2019
Considering a lot of the people working Steven Universe are major fans of Anime and the constant references they make to Evangelion.
I'm pretty sure that meant to be intentional.
Sayon
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2019
I might've posted about this before, but one of the big problems with the Diamonds is that they went out of their way to establish their empire as genocidal and otherwise nasty but insisted on doing what Gundam fans call an "UNDERSTANDING" ending.
At least Zeon could've been said said to act from legit grievances (what with them being the Axis in space with the Federation the Allies without the Soviet Union). The Diamonds though?
At least Zeon could've been said said to act from legit grievances (what with them being the Axis in space with the Federation the Allies without the Soviet Union). The Diamonds though?
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2016
I missed early Garnet like in that picture where her hair was drawn reaching down low enough to suggest the ends sweeping below her jaw like a plausible haircut would. Now it's just a literal minecraft cube on her head with no sway or squash-stretch of animation. I feel like it's one of the things that got lost with time, especially when you have storyboarders that don't bother keeping character sizes consistent, they're never even going to think about something like that while pushing out a finished episode.