Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

[Non-Expert!]

Is it less stressful to try to ignore a crisis or to try to understand what the risks are and try to mitigate against them for yourself and your family as best you can? Personally I'd prefer the second.

And as bad as things are, the fact is most people here would survive just fine if they got it because they're mostly under 60. E.g.

Why we still don't know what the death rate is for covid-19

Despite data pouring in from many countries, estimates of how many of those infected with covid-19 die still vary widely

web.archive.org

For most people here, the chances of dying if infected are probably 1-3%. They might even be lower.

I still find it interesting though, because it's still a serious health care crisis - the mortality rates for people over 70 are non-trivial and the lockdown will cause economic chaos.

Look here

https://web.archive.org/web/2020040...105061/coronavirus-deaths-by-region-in-italy/

View attachment 1217718

Maybe we've been spoiled by modern technology but 10K excess deaths are serious shit to us, even if the percentage mortality would have fallen below the noise floor for most societies over most of human history.

We are not Italy.

Here is a hint ... take a flight from DFW, to Rome. Take several "before" pictures in Dallas, where you grab something to eat, before heading to the airport.

When you get off the plane, take some "after" pictures, where you grab something to eat.

The contrast will be striking. The American picture will be obese, the Italian one, will not.

People in the middle of the life-cycle here are far more vulnerable than their Italian (or Chinese) cohorts. High blood pressure, diabetes and prodromal heart-disease (conditions that a lot of younger people are unaware that they even have) put you at elevated risk of dying of COVID.

In a lot of parts of the world, folks probably would eat more if more food were available to them. But worldwide most people consume a fraction of the calories that North Americans consume, because they don't have access to the variety of food that we do, either because they can't afford it, or it isn't raised or grown fast enough. Or there are logistical issues in transportation, or governments that withhold it from certain populations.

Italians aren't calorie deprived. They eat very well. But it is the "Mediterranean Diet" which many of us couldn't afford here in the States, even if we wanted it. And they eat a wide variety, in smaller portions.

So basically all I am saying is that we shouldn't be lulled into a false sense of security based on statistics coming out of systems with which we have little in common.

I am not opposed to opening things up again. However we need to get a better picture of the vulnerability of our local populations, and plan for it.

 

[Coleslaw]

@copypaste is dying from Kung Flu.

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Spoiler: Tweet

I officially have a low grade fever. 99.03º. Last night I wrote a will. I'm so tired of people telling me I'm worrying too much and freaking out over nothing. This could very well be my last month on Earth. I have compromised lung capacity due to scoliosis. I'm obese. I'm male.

S.

I debated for 5 minutes whether to rate this Feels or Winner.

 

[Otterly]

Obviously just media speculation, but it’s pretty mind blowing if they did just leave him in no. 11 to get on with it, then realised he looked a bit peaky on a zoom meeting. That means he’s had no treatment and not been able to rest.
DM reporting he’s in ICU ‘near a ventilator’ which lol because everywhere in ICU is near a ventilator. In hospital near a wall is as accurate.
Let’s hope they’re actually taking care of him now - just because he needs a bit of oxygen doesn’t mean he’s at deaths door. If he goes on a vent we can start worrying. And whoever his wranglers are they need a slap, because you do not let the leader of the country get into that kind of state. What were they thinking?

2020 is quite a ride isn’t it? What next - place your bets for asteroid impact, seas of blood, or zombie apocalypse.

 

[Eryngium]

I debated for 5 minutes whether to rate this Feels or Winner.

I debated for one second to rate your post autistic

 

[Ponderous Pillock]

Obviously just media speculation, but it’s pretty mind blowing if they did just leave him in no. 11 to get on with it, then realised he looked a bit peaky on a zoom meeting. That means he’s had no treatment and not been able to rest.
DM reporting he’s in ICU ‘near a ventilator’ which lol because everywhere in ICU is near a ventilator. In hospital near a wall is as accurate.
Let’s hope they’re actually taking care of him now - just because he needs a bit of oxygen doesn’t mean he’s at deaths door. If he goes on a vent we can start worrying. And whoever his wranglers are they need a slap, because you do not let the leader of the country get into that kind of state. What were they thinking?

2020 is quite a ride isn’t it? What next - place your bets for asteroid impact, seas of blood, or zombie apocalypse.

He's been in isolation, where doctors pretty much leave you as is for the week. A Doc was called in during a Zoom meeting (supposedly) and saw he was still struggling so told him he was being admitted to hospital.

The (seemingly) good news is he was on 4 litres of oxygen yesterday instead of the average of 15 litres needed for most Critical Care patients, so it might not be as bad but it's doctors freaking out because oh shit the PM still has it.

Bare in mind that most of us, if we get any kind of flu, crawl the fuck into bed and tell the vast majority of the world to fuck off.

BoJo hasn't. He put captaining the ship and leading the country first as the crisis has worsened and this has likely meant he's not rested at all. PM's are notorious for just working non-stop. Thatcher, for example, would go to bed at 4am only to rise at 7 most days of her premiership and Blair did very very similar, often working to the early hours before getting an average of 3-5 hours sleep a night.

Becoming PM is often dreamt of by many a politician but it's a punishment beating when you're actually there.

So it's likely BoJo's worn himself out, or not rested enough to let his body fight the virus and likely made himself worse.

 

[cuddle striker]

don't know it it's been archived yet, but here's a related article to some of my earlier posts about what samples we were taking.

https://archive.li/AFrqK

like many diseases, there are sanctuary sites in the body where this virus likes to nestle in, testes, cerebrospinal fluid and brain stem, eyes.

it isn't hypoxia (lack of oxygen) causing damage to these areas, it's part of the disease process. one of my colleagues assisted with that article although they're not directly quoted.

edit to add: also cardiac myocytes (damage to the heart) although this could be due to treatment with cardiac-aggressive drugs such as HCQ

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/27/health/coronavirus-cardiac-heart-attacks.htm

double edit: on Johnson- these patients seem fine but will have a O2 of like, 60s. they're talking to you and getting brain-destroying lack of oxygen all the while. Unless someone is monitoring all the time, it's easy to miss the moment when someone desats and starts to scrape the bottom. The ICU nurses are running from bed to bed checking pulse ox.

in other words, he may have seemed like just a sickly sort of normal right up until he collapsed. he may have needed a vent for days without notice, unless he has been medically monitored the whole time.

 

[MediocreMilt]

It's a pretty low grade fever, but it could increase if he's still in the early stages.

Legitimately every medical resource I've ever seen about fever says not to worry if it's under 100F (in fact many said under 100.4F).

Hotwheels is being a melodramatic faggot. Let me tell you the story of the last time my temperature was 99-point-something:

Spoiler

It was earlier on in this mess, I was reading a lot of shit online. I was checking my temperature twice a day even though no symptoms because DOOM.

One time, It's 99.2F.
>OH FUCK GONNA DIE

Then I realized the room felt warm and that I'd been sitting in it for several hours reading doomer-posting.

Kicked on the fan, sat outside in the fresh air for five minutes. Came back in, took my temp again: 98.5F

Gay as fuck, Hotwheels.

 

[mr.moon1488]

Legitimately every medical resource I've ever seen about fever says not to worry if it's under 100F (in fact many said under 100.4F).

Hotwheels is being a melodramatic faggot. Let me tell you the story of the last time my temperature was 99-point-something:

Spoiler

It was earlier on in this mess, I was reading a lot of shit online. I was checking my temperature twice a day even though no symptoms because DOOM.

One time, It's 99.2F.
>OH FUCK GONNA DIE

Then I realized the room felt warm and that I'd been sitting in it for several hours reading doomer-posting.

Kicked on the fan, sat outside in the fresh air for five minutes. Came back in, took my temp again: 98.5F

Gay as fuck, Hotwheels.

I feel like it's about half attention whoring, and half he knows he's absolutely fucked if he really gets it and the mild fever is just an early warning.

 

[Otterly]

Well he’s no good to anyone dead. I’m staggered they haven’t physically checked him daily - he’s the PM ffs. Why wasn’t someone popping in and checking him? That can’t be what happened surely?

I used to crawl into bed with flu, until I had kids. Now I can’t, and it’s definitely worse for recovery. We have a big problem in the west with working through illness being either forced Through culture or lack of sick days or being seen as a badge of honour. Im guilty of it myself, but if you’re sick beyond a point, stress and work is making it worse, or at the least not letting it get better. The rules are: run of the mill cold above the throat only, keep on going, anything below the neck / onto your chest, rest. It’s been interesting to see the switch to people insisting the sick stay home.

He needs to sit on his arse for a bit, drink some ghastly NHS tea, and let Raab steer the ship. Get better and have a nice photo op Over Easter weekend with some nurses as he leaves the hospital. Our Brave Lads and Lasses in The NHS, Pride Of Britain etc. Hug a pretty young nurse, say the right words, Lovely front pages, Nation cheers over their Cadbury’s binge, approval ratings through the roof.

 

[cuddle striker]

for everyone sucking up to the lupus teat- that drug is only good for one thing related to covid-19. one thing.

cytokine storm.

it does nothing against the virus itself, is not effective in any way for any other reason.

a cytokine storm is your own immune system gone mad and attacking your body. HCQ is similar to steroids or other immune-suppressant drugs, and puts an end to that response. However, unlike steroids, it has a host of bad interactions with other drugs (including azithromycin) which can exacerbate the symptoms of covid-19 itself.

for example: c19 causes heart issues. HCQ combined with azithromycin can cause heart arrhythmia and heart attacks. the cure being worse than the disease.

interferon treatments do not have this issue and they address the disease itself. therefore they, and antivirals, can be used earlier in the course of the illness.

HCQ only functions once you are having an exaggerated immune response. It does not cure, treat or prevent anything that covid-19 does. It's used in lupus for exactly this reason.

Sweden and several other nations have backed off on using it except in cases of last resort, where a cytokine storm is imminently lethal.

Azithromycin does very little to this virus; antivirals are being tested with much better clinical results.

 

[MediocreMilt]

Azithromycin does very little to this virus; other antivirals are being tested with much better clinical results.

Azithromycin is an antibiotic.

 

[cuddle striker]

Azithromycin is an antibiotic.

yes, which is why, again, it doesn't do anything.

that's the combo trump invested in though, so I'm just making it clear that it's not an actual treatment for this.


acyclovir doesn't touch covid-19.
gancyclovir doesn't.

there's a few stronger antivirals but likely, the Cuban interferon and recovered-patient plasma are more likely to do good. edited my post so it doesn't sound like I'm grouping it with antivirals. thanks

 

[MediocreMilt]

yes, which is why, again, it doesn't do anything.

that's the combo trump invested in though, so I'm just making it clear that it's not an actual treatment for this.


acyclovir doesn't touch covid-19.
gancyclovir doesn't.

there's a few stronger antivirals but likely, the Cuban interferon and recovered-patient plasma are more likely to do good.

the antibiotic treatment is because WuFlu is implicated in opportunistic/secondary bacterial infections in severe cases. it's for those bacteria, not the virus

 

[cuddle striker]

the antibiotic treatment is because WuFlu is implicated in opportunistic/secondary bacterial infections in severe cases. it's for those bacteria, not the virus

again: it does nothing for this virus.
if you survive the virus itself but are on a ventilator it'll be standard, along with antifungal drugs. it has nothing to do with treating covid-19.

to be clear: ANYONE on a ventilator for ANY reason is given this or another antibiotic and an antifungal to boot. it goes with having a medical device shoved in your lungs for weeks.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

Nine days after @JosephStalin wrote the OP for this thread (1) Peter Navarro, President Trump's trade advisor wrote a memo. In this memo he warned that “The lack of immune protection or an existing cure or vaccine would leave Americans defenseless in the case of a full-blown coronavirus outbreak on U.S. soil. This lack of protection elevates the risk of the coronavirus evolving into a full-blown pandemic, imperiling the lives of millions of Americans.” The memo circulated amongst other WH officials while they tried to figure out what to do. I suspect they did what they normally do, that is, call in the CDC, NIH and military to try to come up with a plan. I'm curious as what these plans were and from whom during the month of February. Mind you the Democratic opposition united in calling Trump a racist for the millionth time when he closed our borders to China. I wonder if there were any partisan obstructions along the way. I'm sure there were but we won't know for some time.
Trade Adviser Warned White House in January of Risks of a Pandemic

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for example: c19 causes heart issues. HCQ combined with azithromycin can cause heart arrhythmia and heart attacks. the cure being worse than the disease.

There 's a doctor here using HCQ with doxycycline with elderly patients with good results. Interesting how these older drugs seem promising.

 

[cuddle striker]

Nine days after @JosephStalin wrote the OP for this thread (1) Peter Navarro, President Trump's trade advisor wrote a memo. In this memo he warned that “The lack of immune protection or an existing cure or vaccine would leave Americans defenseless in the case of a full-blown coronavirus outbreak on U.S. soil. This lack of protection elevates the risk of the coronavirus evolving into a full-blown pandemic, imperiling the lives of millions of Americans.” The memo circulated amongst other WH officials while they tried to figure out what to do. I suspect they did what they normally do, that is, call in the CDC, NIH and military to try to come up with a plan. I'm curious as what these plans were and from whom during the month of February. Mind you the Democratic opposition united in calling Trump a racist for the millionth time when he closed our borders to China. I wonder if there were any partisan obstructions along the way. I'm sure there were but we won't know for some time.
Trade Adviser Warned White House in January of Risks of a Pandemic

Welcome to nginx!

There 's a doctor here using HCQ with doxycycline with elderly patients with good results. Interesting how these older drugs seem promising.

HCQ has no effect on this virus, it's purely to suppress the immune system of those whose bodies overreact. anecdotes aren't science.

trump did not close the border to China. he allowed Americans who had traveled to the affected area to come in with no delay, no requirement of real quarantine. it was not done correctly, in any way that would have helped.

He permitted the typhoid Mary to walk in because they were white.

of course Pelosi is an idiot as well. (she should have pushed him to completely quarantine everyone coming in from that area, not tried to make the gap looser!) and I'm also curious who saw that memo and what stocks they bought and sold while he went on stage and gave us the "Democrat hoax" tapdance delay.

 

[Ponderous Pillock]

Well he’s no good to anyone dead. I’m staggered they haven’t physically checked him daily - he’s the PM ffs. Why wasn’t someone popping in and checking him? That can’t be what happened surely?

I used to crawl into bed with flu, until I had kids. Now I can’t, and it’s definitely worse for recovery. We have a big problem in the west with working through illness being either forced Through culture or lack of sick days or being seen as a badge of honour. Im guilty of it myself, but if you’re sick beyond a point, stress and work is making it worse, or at the least not letting it get better. The rules are: run of the mill cold above the throat only, keep on going, anything below the neck / onto your chest, rest. It’s been interesting to see the switch to people insisting the sick stay home.

He needs to sit on his arse for a bit, drink some ghastly NHS tea, and let Raab steer the ship. Get better and have a nice photo op Over Easter weekend with some nurses as he leaves the hospital. Our Brave Lads and Lasses in The NHS, Pride Of Britain etc. Hug a pretty young nurse, say the right words, Lovely front pages, Nation cheers over their Cadbury’s binge, approval ratings through the roof.

Knowing BoJo? Whatever Doctors they have near probably pushed for this... and he'll have pushed them away as nobody else in the UK gets their own doctor checking in on them so why should he? Some morons would screech about it and how unfair it was despite the fact he's the bloody PM. I've seen some on FB this morning as some folks want to organise a "clap" for him tonight at 8pm.

I suspect the person who was in the Zoom call and told BoJo he was being admitted was likely Chris Witty himself, or his deputy, Jenny Harries. Both are doctors of some repute, have been handling the data and press conferences well and could convince the (rather scientifically led) BoJo that he needed to go into hospital.

Though I agree, and fingers crossed your scenario is exactly what will play out. When he's a bit better there'll be a double thumbs up selfie from his bed, followed by a few more days when he then comes striding out there'll be a few cheers and raised glasses and eaten chocolate.

You fucking keep your perky arse in bed, Doctor Otter, nurses in the UK are already overwhelmed, we don't need the (sexy-arsed) doctors in trouble as well, though I wouldn't mind you giving me a home visit.

Unlimited Cringe Works.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

HCQ has no effect on this virus, it's purely to suppress the immune system of those whose bodies overreact. anecdotes aren't science.

trump did not close the border to China. he allowed Americans who had traveled to the affected area to come in with no delay, no requirement of real quarantine. it was not done correctly, in any way that would have helped.

He permitted the typhoid Mary to walk in because they were white.

of course Pelosi is an idiot as well. (she should have pushed him to completely quarantine everyone coming in from that area, not tried to make the gap looser!) and I'm also curious who saw that memo and what stocks they bought and sold while he went on stage and gave us the "Democrat hoax" tapdance delay.

Aren't the elderly with various per-existing conditions most at risk from developing a cytokine storm in relation to this coronavirus? And I agree the response to this was just ridiculous on all sides around.

 

[Agent Abe Caprine]

wtf my temp is 98.4 is that bad????

98.4 Freedom Units is in the normal range. A temperature between 98.7 and 100.4 is a low grade fever.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

98.4 Freedom Units is in the normal range. A temperature between 98.7 and 100.4 is a low grade fever.

That bitch Corona-chan is messing with me again.