Snowflake Chloe Wilkinson / DissociaDID and Nanette Zuniga / Nan / TeamPinata

[Shrryph1]

All this stuff about Chloe being triggered by Halloween and having flashbacks she doesn’t understand and working out with her therapist that her suicide attempts all seemed to coincide with Halloween coming on seems a bit strange.

I never dug deep enough into her social media to know before about any of these claims she made, but she just made a video this past Halloween season where she was dressed up in gothy makeup and some dark woodland creature antler headpiece talking about Halloween. She seemed pretty happy about all the parties and dressing up and going out to have fun with friends and how that’s all totally fine and what people should do for the Holidays. That video was mostly about consent and that skimpy costumes don’t grant other people consent to touch you or violated your personal boundaries. Which, sure, that’s all good to talk about.

It just seems to me that someone who is so triggered by Halloween that they had half remembered images of childhood trauma, rapid switching, new alters being created and multiple suicide attempts during that time of year would be too fucked up about it to make a cheerful video while dressed up and talking about the fun of the parties and make believe of the holiday.

 

[heavycream]

I had a neighbor growing up who went to juvie for lighting a bunch of stray kittens on fire, and was later diagnosed with ASPD. His dad did meth with my step-father so I'm sure there was abuse in his house. Given that Chloe didn't have any abuse and doesn't seem like she'd purposefully harm a fly, I just can't imagine her ever being diagnosed with ASPD.

Yeah, ASPD is the adult progression from adolescent Conduct Disorder (measured by callous & unemotional traits on self and other report scales - which I can tell you Chloe would absolutely not score highly on because in spite of her neuroses she seems to be emotionally intelligent). Note that conduct disorder itself usually comes to be diagnosed as a result of behavioural issues and early criminal offence.

 

[incorrigible shit goblin]

If that's true, it may also suggest how she was able to score highly on clinical self-report measures at Pottergate.
This is all speculation though.

You're right, but there have been studies done of people trained to feigned DID versus actual DID patients in a DID evaluation. There is evidence to suggest that the DES II ('gold standard' for diagnosing DID) could not accurately distinguish between the two. There are resources that list the average score for DID diagnosis, and as long as a person knew that, they could shoot for it and probably hit it just fine on a self report. Here's a good essay on it. Lot's of great references.

This is why we need to include family and friends during the diagnostic process. I know for a fact that just for an ADHD diagnosis the patient fills out 2 self reports (if not more), parents fill out a report, 2 teachers fill out a report, an IQ test (4 hour test on its own) and attention test is administered. It easily adds up to 10+ hours in the office. I don't know why a professional would only need self reported information.

I know DID is a hidden disorder, but that is really the most effective whilst living through the trauma. Once the person is outside of that environment, it becomes a lot more obvious. It's what makes DID such a difficult disorder to live with. An alter overspending, destroying relationships, refusing to care for the body, not knowing to pay bills, ending up lost, not attending obligations like classes and appointments, etc. If people genuinely enjoy having DID all the time, they probably don't have it. Being grateful that it allowed you to survive is common, considering it a party is not.

 

[comrade666]

That post from Nan verges on canned response word salad. I wonder what she considers family in this context, I can only assume loved ones being Chloe. I love how the alters that they need to have fronting just conveniently seem to be on board with whatever the message of the day is. Weird that we never see a post from an angry alter ect.

Nan actually seems to have a good relationship with her brothers and parents, based on social media posts in the last five years.

But, I do have to wonder if this is actually legitimate and if someone really did contact one of Nan’s family members if it was out of concern considering their past and all and Nan reacted by going full president of Madagascar and shutting down everything because their family confronted them or something.

I can't see anyone around here having contacted her family. I think the most likely scenario is that someone approached a family member asking about the art Nan drew with characters based on family members. That, or they would have contacted family expressing concern. I've only ever watched a cow go into full shut down mode when their behaviour started having real world consequences. Great time for a game of pandemic by the way.

Didn't screenshot this earlier as I didn't believe it was really all that relevent but
Chloe didn't even know what satanic ritual abuse was a few years back

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This was the replies on a post where she was freaking out about halloween.

From what I know of BPD, aren't these people highly suggestible? Is Chloe not just picking up cool elements of whatever trauma catches her eye along the way?

I haven't seen every video of hers so I don't know everything but there may be more. That's why I thought maybe that's what her trauma was, kind of glad to be wrong though.

It's also possible she pretended not to know or added it to her story later. Which, if true, huge discrepancy right there. But I think unlikely.

Hugely optimistic. There are discrepancies throughout her story particularly surrounding trauma. We now know that she has a tendency to hugely exaggerate trauma that has actually happened as seen in her suicide swim session. What she described as a hugely traumatic incident in which she had hung herself and was on the brink of death and involved police and fire services who had launched a missing persons search... was actually her jumping into the lake and the police pulling her out. She was well enough to joke about it and say 'go hard or go home' afterwards, making light of her friends serious concerns.

The parental abuse she alludes to? Unlikely to have happened but based on what we've found, she was most likely occasionally spanked as a child and made to eat meals her parents cooked for her that she didn't want. Her Mother is hugely supportive of her. In a conversation where Chloe's former boyfriend asked for help from her Mother, her Mother volunteered to drive hours out of her way to collect her daughter and stated that Chloe would be put under no pressure in the family home Chloe is so scared of. Such pressure as being asked to wash the dishes, which was causing tension between her and her boyfriend. Chloe by her own admission had a happy childhood as seen on her old ask.fm account. Chloe states that her Father is her favourite person on that same account.

Sexual abuse? Well, on her Tumblr she stated that she had never been sexually assaulted as of late 2013. She may have been assaulted after this date but that was long after she turned 7-9 meaning that she couldn't have developed DID from that event(s).

She also claims to have been in a number of abusive relationships. I can't comment on those but I've got a full list of her ex-partners from John up to Jamie, just before Nan arrived on the scene. If more information emerges there then I'll be sure to update.

Religious abuse? Eh. She makes various conflicting statements. In her earliest video with Kyle she claimed that she had nothing against religious people but her language suggested that she hadn't ever been involved with religion. In the screen shots above we see that she says she has never heard of SRA. Yet in her video with Jade she talks about being extremely god-fearing. She's dropped several hints about religious abuse.

In short, Chloe's trauma is very unlikely to have happened and if it did happen it is very unlikely to have been severe or repeated so as to cause DID. She lies and exaggerates frequently.

As for what she's actually doing in therapy, a while ago it was said that she was on an SSRI prior to the diagnosis of her supposed DID. SSRi's are typically prescribed for one of the following things in the UK:

As far as I know she was still on an SSRI after her diagnosis up to 2018. I'd also agree that she probably does have an eating disorder of some description based on her frame. She also went through a phase of posting obsessively about diet and fitness on her personal account.

All this stuff about Chloe being triggered by Halloween and having flashbacks she doesn’t understand and working out with her therapist that her suicide attempts all seemed to coincide with Halloween coming on seems a bit strange.

I never dug deep enough into her social media to know before about any of these claims she made, but she just made a video this past Halloween season where she was dressed up in gothy makeup and some dark woodland creature antler headpiece talking about Halloween. She seemed pretty happy about all the parties and dressing up and going out to have fun with friends and how that’s all totally fine and what people should do for the Holidays. That video was mostly about consent and that skimpy costumes don’t grant other people consent to touch you or violated your personal boundaries. Which, sure, that’s all good to talk about.

It just seems to me that someone who is so triggered by Halloween that they had half remembered images of childhood trauma, rapid switching, new alters being created and multiple suicide attempts during that time of year would be too fucked up about it to make a cheerful video while dressed up and talking about the fun of the parties and make believe of the holiday.

She also dressed as a generic battered woman on Halloween in recent years. She celebrates Halloween actively.

Yeah, ASPD is the adult progression from adolescent Conduct Disorder (measured by callous & unemotional traits on self and other report scales - which I can tell you Chloe would absolutely not score highly on because in spite of her neuroses she seems to be emotionally intelligent). Note that conduct disorder itself usually comes to be diagnosed as a result of behavioural issues and early criminal offence.

With that said, not everyone who is diagnosed with conduct disorder will go on to develop ASPD. I'm far from an expert when it comes to psychology but I do know a fair amount about CD and ASPD. I won't PL but I can confidently say that Chloe does not have ASPD. Her self involvement is far more indicative of BPD or narcissism.

 

[DissociaDONT]

So here's a neat thing.

A Chloe stan has been linking this all over Twitter to silence all the doubters.

Of note I think is this bit:

The assessments are done jointly by myself and a psychiatrist colleague. The involvement of a psychiatrist firstly gives the report more credence. He can really establish whether this is the primary diagnosis, as often people will have multiple diagnoses, especially those who have been in the system for 15 years or so. And years ago someone may have made a decision about what the problem was, which takes them on a left turn. Once they are on that left turn, it is virtually impossible to get someone to go back and look to check that it was the correct turn. Partly, within the NHS, there is no time for someone to do that – so they never get a sense of that person as a whole being. That is what we provide with our full assessments – we look at everything and in effect start from scratch.


For the last 8 years or so, we have carried out the assessments jointly. People often think that a survivor having to sit with two men in a room must be terrifying, but we try to approach it right and it has never to my knowledge been a problem. I use the SCID-D (Structured Clinical Interview for Dissociative Disorders) as a basis, and as I ask the questions it allows my colleague to observe. Observing is just as important as the questions – being able to see the subtle changes and responses that otherwise we might miss. And I also observe while my colleague asks his questions. Then we both write a report and do a joint recommendation letter. A draft of that will be sent to the client to check that we have got the facts right, and then they can just receive it themselves or it can go on to whoever they have requested to have it.

So, at some point (based on Chloe's recent account of how her diagnosis went down) Remy streamlined this to just recording himself asking all the questions and sending the tape off for a stamp of approval.

 

[incorrigible shit goblin]

In short, Chloe's trauma is very unlikely to have happened and if it did happen it is very unlikely to have been severe or repeated so as to cause DID. She lies and exaggerates frequently.

Should have clarified I meant story of trauma. But I think your post is an excellent TLDR write up for anyone who is still doubting that she's faking. Thank you.

 

[Gramh]

I like how Chloe plays fast and loose with the concept of trauma, she leans really hard into the idea that what exactly constitutes traumatic is deeply personal to sort of disingenuously play down the major stepping stone of a DID diagnosis to her audience.

 

[heterotic]

I know DID is a hidden disorder, but that is really the most effective whilst living through the trauma. Once the person is outside of that environment, it becomes a lot more obvious. It's what makes DID such a difficult disorder to live with. An alter overspending, destroying relationships, refusing to care for the body, not knowing to pay bills, ending up lost, not attending obligations like classes and appointments, etc. If people genuinely enjoy having DID all the time, they probably don't have it. Being grateful that it allowed you to survive is common, considering it a party is not.

Severe dissociation (whether there are identity states or not) is extremely distressing. You can wind up taking double medications making you very sick. You miss important events you want to remember. You come out of dissociation after having driven 7 hours going in the wrong direction from home, you may have been dissociated when you started driving. These people cannot keep track of what bills they've paid, how they've spent money, these are debilitating disorders. Feeling unsure if your version of the reality you remember actually happened or not. On top of the fact that as an adult, you may not recall your sustained trauma, you know about it, at least to some degree. You lack the support system to function. Chloe is the antithesis of literally all of this.

The main point that clinicians have made publicly when diagnosing DID, which they overwhelmingly report they do rarely, is that people who really have it come in distressed about memory problems and disorientation. Following that, they look for evidence and signs of sustained childhood trauma.

So here's a neat thing.

A Chloe stan has been linking this all over Twitter to silence all the doubters.

Of note I think is this bit:


So, at some point (based on Chloe's recent account of how her diagnosis went down) Remy streamlined this to just recording himself asking all the questions and sending the tape off for a stamp of approval.

According to the phone call Pete had with Pottergate, the "stamp" thing isn't even true, and the psychiatrist they have on staff is not qualified to diagnose DID. Also, not really sure what this proves, other than the fact that it says that it's an assessment and recommendation, NOT a diagnosis and treatment plan.

Disorganised attachment is in my view the primary cause of DID. Dissociative disorders used to be seen as being caused by emotional, physical or sexual abuse alone...

...I have no doubt at all that DID is almost always caused by very serious abuse and that many survivors have suffered at the hands of organised groups of paedophiles.

He is implying that DID may not always be caused by sustained abuse... despite that the neuroscience says that it must be. If having a bad relationship with your parents caused DID, it would be so, so common. I guess this explains the 57% "assessment" rate?

 

[self-diagnosed dumbass]

This is rather sad. View attachment 1222180

Oh jesus this reads like one of those fake "I haven't paid rent in 3 months so I can donate to m'queen Pokimane" tweets but I'm inclined to believe this one is real. STOP GIVING THESE FREAKS MONEY HOLY FUCK, if you want someone to act crazy for money I'm sure any of us in this thread can pull off a very convincing "switch on camera," but I guess we aren't as pretty as poor broken Chloe who's So Sick but not in the "burning self on camera" way, because that is Crazy and Manipulative. Whereas hinting suicide AND confirming that's what you're hinting is completely un-manipulative and clearly isn't a ploy to get poor gullible idiots to keep letting that sweet patreon money roll in?

Also the bit at the end like "I let my own financial security fall to help your gf, oh god please notice me." Umm...

 

[Hihocherryo]

So I found these posts in a FB group a few days ago. Didn't join it on my personal acct.
Been busy with work, so haven't had a chance to post myself as I've been swamped and when I get in I've been crashing.
Just remembered about it tonight and figured I'd get the screenshots before all these are deleted too.

Figured I'd post them because some of the stuff she says directly contradicts other stuff and some of its just lulzy.

Spoiler

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View attachment 1221347am I right in thinking the £600 one is just to see Remy and not the psych??

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Are you still in the group? Lol.

 

[pd2jzutg2]

Are you still in the group? Lol.

I am, I found some interesting screenshots which I’ll post later as I’m on mobile and can be assed to do all that on my phone. I did find a comment where she said Jamie was abusive in the past but wasn’t anymore at the time of her comment

 

[heterotic]

Oh jesus this reads like one of those fake "I haven't paid rent in 3 months so I can donate to m'queen Pokimane" tweets but I'm inclined to believe this one is real. STOP GIVING THESE FREAKS MONEY HOLY FUCK, if you want someone to act crazy for money I'm sure any of us in this thread can pull off a very convincing "switch on camera," but I guess we aren't as pretty as poor broken Chloe who's So Sick but not in the "burning self on camera" way, because that is Crazy and Manipulative. Whereas hinting suicide AND confirming that's what you're hinting is completely un-manipulative and clearly isn't a ploy to get poor gullible idiots to keep letting that sweet patreon money roll in?

Also the bit at the end like "I let my own financial security fall to help your gf, oh god please notice me." Umm...

Yep, they are fans. Not mental health advocates. They are Chloe Wilkinson fans, and nothing else. A bunch of them just happen to have mental health problems, which makes it even more sad.

I am, I found some interesting screenshots which I’ll post later as I’m on mobile and can be assed to do all that on my phone. I did find a comment where she said Jamie was abusive in the past but wasn’t anymore at the time of her comment

Jamie is the one from the screenshots desperate to help her, right?

 

[pd2jzutg2]

Jamie is the one from the screenshots desperate to help her, right?

Yes but that doesn’t mean he isn’t or wasn’t abusive to be fair.
Edit: also she said that on the post where she posted those messages

 

[Gramh]

Yes but that doesn’t mean he isn’t or wasn’t abusive to be fair.

To be doubly fair, Chloe is the type that would probably exaggerate any sort of negative conflict as abuse up to and including taking her to her parent's house so he can take a break and get his shit together. "OMG he didn't go to the store to get me dinosaur chicken nuggets for my little alter that I wanted to front, #emotionalabuse #rape"

 

[rot]

Not to be a dick, but this really sounds like nice/clinincal/PC way of saying that BPD patients are literally just people who overdramatize everything, and developed a personality disorder from being expected to handle life like everyone else.

IDK how you got to that conclusion, but if it's referring to the " environment that frequently invalidates your hypersensitivity" part, what I meant by that was an environment in which your parents, teachers, classmates, etc. constantly make fun of you or punish you for being highly sensitive.
High sensitivity is a natural personality trait like being active, introverted, shy, etc. Like I said: it needs to be in combination with childhood trauma, and often unstable attachments to parents.

Spoiler: on-topic TMI/ PL-ing

I have BPD and this is how my therapist explained the "invalidating environment" part to me: If you have parents who are calm, and they have a hyperactive child, they won't know how to deal with that. Telling the child to "just sit still", or "just shut up", etc. which makes the child feel like there's something wrong with them for being the way they are. The way this would happen with HSPs would be: "it's not a big problem" "you are over-exaggerating", and in combination with childhood trauma later on, it makes them even more afraid of talking to people about it, on top of the usual manipulation that accompanies childhood trauma ("you can't tell anyone", "if you tell anyone they will get angry at you"), the combination is just awful.

So essentially the 3 factors that make someone BPD are:
1. Unstable attachment with parents and/or invalidating environment
2. Childhood trauma
3. Genetic predisposition that lays the "foundation" for the "building blocks" for BPD (which are the other 2 factors)

Spoiler: no one cares about this

If you want to ask me something about this you can, I don't feel like sperging in this thread about this, as it's not about BPD except for the fact that Nan has it.

However, it is a fair assumption to make for those who developed it from just poor parenting. Being coddled and spoiled, expecting to have all the attention they want, and when they don't get it, they act out.

Most people with BPD have quite neglectful parents. Helicopter parenting and too much attention and spoiling the kid, never giving them criticism, etc. will more likely lead to HPD, NPD, or ASPD (especially if they grew up in a violent household and were never given rules, for ASPD)

Hope this cleared stuff up.

 

[comrade666]

To be doubly fair, Chloe is the type that would probably exaggerate any sort of negative conflict as abuse up to and including taking her to her parent's house so he can take a break and get his shit together. "OMG he didn't go to the store to get me dinosaur chicken nuggets for my little alter that I wanted to front, #emotionalabuse #rape"

Exactly. I find her vague accusations of abuse that could be attributed to several people in her life the most damaging. She heavily hints that her parents were abusive when much of the evidence suggests they are the opposite. She heavily hints that a number of her previous partners were abusive too, and those people are fairly easily traced back to her. Based on her history of exaggerating I wouldn't trust anything she says.

She was sleeping all day in Jamie's house while he studied for exams and took care of her despite what sounded like fairly regular meltdowns. She was doing absolutely nothing and threw a fit when asked to do the washing up. At a loss for what to do, Jamie reached out to ask her Mother for help, and that was deemed as a huge betrayal. She's a fucking fantasist and exactly the type to cry rape if someone gives her a sympathetic shoulder pat.

 

[heterotic]

So essentially the 3 factors that make someone BPD are:
1. Unstable attachment with parents and/or invalidating environment
2. Childhood trauma
3. Genetic predisposition that lays the "foundation" for the "building blocks" for BPD (which are the other 2 factors)

Are you saying you disagree that diagnosed cases of bpd (~20%) that have no evidence of trauma or abuse are bpd?

 

[rot]

Are you saying you disagree that diagnosed cases of bpd (~20%) that have no evidence of trauma or abuse are bpd?

I would say yes. I'm not a believer in "endogenic BPD". The Treatment and Research Advancement Association for Personality Disorders even campaigned to re-label BPD as a form of C-PTSD. They were unsuccessful in that, but I have no idea why. I don't see how someone could split without having gone through trauma, as it's a defense mechanism. Same for dissociation (severe, of course. Like the dissociative rage, and long periods of DP/DR). Then again, there are like 256 ways to have BPD, as there are 9 criteria and you must meet 6 to receive a diagnosis.

So in short: I don't think you can have BPD without having gone through trauma, I'd say that's most likely a mood disorder of some kind. I know more women are diagnosed with BPD than men, so if there was no trauma, I'd say maybe it's misdiagnosed PMDD (Pre-Menstrual Dysphoric Disorder, like PMS on steroids), and I heard that many women were misdiagnosed with BPD when they were really suffering from PMDD. IDK what would be the case for men without trauma though, but most personality disorders stem from trauma (+ genetic predisposition, just like BPD)

 

[heterotic]

Yes but that doesn’t mean he isn’t or wasn’t abusive to be fair.

uh

I mean, sure, but, my point was more that she has this tendency to tell two stories that do not add up, and she's never firm in saying "so-and-so was abusive." It's always ""so-and-so was very supportive and loving and I appreciate it" and "my abuser was nearby in this scenario." This leads me to believe she's being purposefully vague so as to not make actual false claims or accusations. Not to avoid police involvement, mind you, but to protect her relationships with the people she's insinuating were abusive to her. While being actively in an abusive situation makes people lie and say that they are not being abused, it doesn't make them later imply they were abused by said person, while also publicly praising them. It just doesn't add up.

To be doubly fair, Chloe is the type that would probably exaggerate any sort of negative conflict as abuse up to and including taking her to her parent's house so he can take a break and get his shit together. "OMG he didn't go to the store to get me dinosaur chicken nuggets for my little alter that I wanted to front, #emotionalabuse #rape"

Exactly. She thinks forgetfulness is amnesia, all dissociation is indicative of a trauma disorder, says the smallest of things are "traumatic", it's not exactly a stretch to believe she's calling his behavior in those texts abusive.

I don't see how someone could split without having gone through trauma, as it's a defense mechanism. Same for dissociation (severe, of course. Like the dissociative rage, and long periods of DP/DR). Then again, there are like 256 ways to have BPD, as there are 9 criteria and you must meet 6 to receive a diagnosis.

I believe they've all but proved that splitting and severe dissociation are defense mechanisms due to trauma, but since you only need 5 of the symptoms to be diagnosed, those two aren't required. We discussed this a bit above and I'm on sort of the same train of thought as you - I believe that there are two different issues here, and bpd cases that don't split/dissociate severely are probably either something else, or the 80% of bpd cases which due split and/or severely dissociate should be diagnosed with c-PTSD.

 

[pd2jzutg2]

I would say yes. I'm not a believer in "endogenic BPD". The Treatment and Research Advancement Association for Personality Disorders even campaigned to re-label BPD as a form of C-PTSD. They were unsuccessful in that, but I have no idea why. I don't see how someone could split without having gone through trauma, as it's a defense mechanism. Same for dissociation (severe, of course. Like the dissociative rage, and long periods of DP/DR). Then again, there are like 256 ways to have BPD, as there are 9 criteria and you must meet 6 to receive a diagnosis.

I think you’ve got terminology mixed up. Splitting when it comes to BPD refers to the black and white mindset. Like if someone the BPD person loves and adores does something that upsets them, the person would see their loved one as 100% bad/mean and would hate them. Then when that loved one makes it up to the BPD person, they would see them as pure and good and love them wholeheartedly again.

also you only need to meet 5 criteria. If anyone’s interested, I could go throuh my book on BPD and send them relevant sections