Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

[Feline Supremacist]

While I agree with your point about the growing pushback, this pastor, and many of them who are thumbing their noses at the law, are wrong. There are at least two verses in the New Testament about being submissive to government authority, and Jesus uttered one of them. If the cops were issuing fines when there wasn't a lockdown going on, then that would be the time to raise a fuss. But missing a few services during a pandemic? It's really not a big deal in the grand scheme. I don't see the difference between these church people and any other people who are breaking quarantine. They all need to stay home.

He's not referencing a religious belief but a legal one, the concept of natural rights, that come from our Creator, as opposed to rights being bestowed upon us by a government. This is the idea behind the Bill of Rights and is stated in the last verse of the Declaration of Independence: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

What did they mean by this?

View attachment 1230980

But the Constitution wasn't suspended you stupid cops. They really are asking for it (it as in a massive lawsuit). Not to mention giving the sovereign citizen tards more excuses to sperg some more.

 

[Marchesa of the Vast]

How is it that in the span of a month we went from the popular opinion being that you’re a fucking moron if you don’t take the Coronavirus and Quarantine seriously to you’re a fucking moron if you want everything to stay shut down and everyone to stay inside?

A lot of us never really altered our opinion that the biggest threat and issue was how people were going to react to this. A lot of the doomers have just stopped posting because you don't get as much crazy videos and speculation, you've got daily reports from scientists and doctors actively researching it. Reality is less fun than apocalyptic fetishism.

 

[Techpriest]

Confirmed deaths were only direct H1N1 infections. 56K dies of pneumonia related to flus in 2009, and the 12K official estimate is just that, AN ESTIMATE, because they didnt test many of those pneumonia cases for the swine flu.

Also, speaking of OFFICIAL estimates:

"The total of median estimates of country-specific respiratory deaths was 201,200, with a range of 105,700 to 395,600, calculated on the basis of the 25th- and 75th-percentile estimates for each age-group and country. Another 83,300 deaths (range, 46,000 to 179,900) were attributed to cardiovascular complications, for a total of 284,400 (range, 151,700 to 575,400). (Because of rounding of regional estimates, the totals don't add up precisely.)

The World Health Organization (WHO) has put the number of deaths from confirmed 2009 H1N1 flu at a minimum of 18,449, but that number is regarded as well below the true total, mainly because many people who die of flu-related causes are not tested for the disease. "

CDC estimate of global H1N1 pandemic deaths: 284,000

(CIDRAP News) – Working with admittedly sparse data, a research team led by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has estimated the global death toll from the 2009 H1N1 influenza pandemic at more than 284,000, about 15 times the number of laboratory-confirmed cases.

www.cidrap.umn.edu

So are you going and trusting the WHO's garbage data again? Official swine flu death totals are likely far below their ACTUAL totals because of lack of testing (hey sound familiar?). The unreported cases for corona are largely the mild and asymptomatic cases, the severe and lethal cases have far better representation in overall death statistics then Swine flu received.

Also LOL calm down you exceptional individual.


The most vocal swing wildly from one extreme to the other. The more moderate dont tend to scream as loudly.

I addressed that well below the true total schtick in my post. If 56k died of pneumonia related to flu in the US that year subtract the 'average' pneumonia related to flu deaths the year before. 60k is a number pulled out of your ass because unless 75% of those cases were undiagnosed H1N1, you're still wildly overestimating. The US in 2017 had 49,157 deaths from flu related pneumonia. Assuming a similar rate per year, give or take a couple thousand depending on the severity of the season and that's maybe 10k tops over what the expected death rate was. So the 12k estimate by the CDC makes a fuckload more sense.
Hell, let's dig into the mortality reports for the year before the swine flu, and during it. There's not a huge bump here for pneumonia deaths is there? There's a big one during the 2010 to 2011 data, but the numbers from 2008 to 2009 and 2009 to 2010 (During the pandemic) remained very similar... and had a difference of about 10k. Wow. What a surprise.

>Waah you used WHO data

No, I didn't. I used the WHO's confirmed cases data (which is rather accurate for the US and backed by the CDC), the 12k estimate was done by the CDC and I linked it. Fun fact, that is the number they're still sticking to a decade later. The CDC estimate is still four times that of the official deaths in the US of swine flu. You're factoring in waaaay too many pneumonia related deaths into your numbers because of faulty assumptions. Even with Corona having a better representation in official death figures, we're still looking at a good amount of deaths without diagnosis, meaning the actual deathrate is probably closer to 1.5 to 2x the official tally in the US when all is said and done.

 

[RodgerDodger]

Also, we are the UNITED STATES of America. The governors are sovereign within their borders to a very large extent. This includes absolute authority over commerce within their borders barring only explicit prohibitions in federal law and the constitution. The Federal President has very limited power over a State Governor in the US.

The only shocking thing to me is why this is so shocking to so many people. For christ's sake, this was taught to me in 8th grade social studies. I cant be the only person who paid attention and remembered this shit

It isn’t really that simple. We are in a declared State of National Emergency. The Governors can’t claim that their declarations os State Emergency override or are superior to the Federal Executive‘s. Nor can they go freelancing among themselves and seek to cut the Feds out of the loop. It ended badly for the last States to try that. Finally Cuomo and his cronies can shriek 10th Amendment all they want, but it’s Trump who controls the checkbook. Which gives him the de facto if not the de jury power to put an end to all of this when he wishes.

 

[derpherp2]

If the left is stupid enough to outright defend WHO instead of pointing out both WHO and Trump lied early on then they deserve to lose. Years pass and I still get surprised how easily people take Trump's bait when he throws it out.

I can't imagine the amount of times the right's facepalmed at just how bad the left's been in trying to at least oppose their faggotry.

It's like watching an accredited, respected professor be your opponent for a debate with the topic being his field, so you prepare a hugeass amount of notecards to try and figure out all his points to counterpoint.

And then the entire debate he just rolls all over the floor and shits himself.
I mean it might be some esoteric plan that I can't figure out, but shitting yourself in public doesn't sound like a good thing.

Also, we are the UNITED STATES of America. The governors are sovereign within their borders to a very large extent. This includes absolute authority over commerce within their borders barring only explicit prohibitions in federal law and the constitution. The Federal President has very limited power over a State Governor in the US.

The only shocking thing to me is why this is so shocking to so many people. For christ's sake, this was taught to me in 8th grade social studies. I cant be the only person who paid attention and remembered this shit

It's also the reason why I'm so confused about people bitching to Trump about their state's faggotry.
Like dude, what do you expect him to do? Yell at your governor?

A lot of us never really altered our opinion that the biggest threat and issue was how people were going to react to this. A lot of the doomers have just stopped posting because you don't get as much crazy videos and speculation, you've got daily reports from scientists and doctors actively researching it. Reality is less fun than apocalyptic fetishism.

Also it was more fun focusing on China's retarded bullshit, instead of America's since it's fucking on 24/7, and China's being quiet so far.
Most of their cameras are still empty tho which is weird, but who cares.

 

[najobo]

A year-long lockdown is pure fantasy. You are going to forgo all outside employment, all education, and all non-coof medical care for an entire year? Farmers stop farming? Truckers stop trucking? Do people think that food magically appears in supermarkets? What about the people who package and produce and ship and write the cheesy blurbs for your cleaning supplies?

Kids receive no real education for an entire year? My emphasis is on real, because Mom and Dad, no matter how well-intentioned, are not trained professionals. Also, they're probably broke by November. Kiddos, I would say you better sell spare parts and veggies on the road, but LOCKDOWN, remember?

I feel like people believe society to be way, way more advanced than it really is. No, the economy is not dashes and dots on a computer somewhere. Even the Internet runs on human sweat. Does your local Spectrum worker get to hide at home, too, or just you? Because if he does, there goes your access to fucking Amazon. How about medical professionals? The magnanimity of the "hide for a year, the GREATER GOOD" crowd is not limitless, I see. We hide at home, doing remote work; doctors and blue-collar grunts keep working, coof be damned.

 

[Rudy Russo]

Outside China

1,896,682 confirmed / 123,212 dead / 407,713 recovered

1835642 / 116243 / 370959 yesterday

Iran

74,877 confirmed / 4,683 dead / 48,129 recovered

73303 / 4585 / 45983 yesterday

USA

608,458 confirmed / 25,992 dead / 48,224 recovered JohnHopkins
614,807 confirmed / 26,065 dead / 48,537 recovered Infection2020

581679 / Wrong / 43738 yesterday JohnHopkins
587759 / 23656 /43924 yesterday Infection2020

Spain

174,060 confirmed / 18,255 dead / 67,504 recovered

170099 / 17756 / 64727 yesterday

Italy

162,488 confirmed / 21,067 dead / 37,130 recovered

159516 / 20465 / 35435 yesterday

France

131,361 confirmed / 15,748 dead / 29,098 recovered

137877 / 14986 / 28001 yesterday

Germany

132,210 confirmed / 3,495 dead / 68,200 recovered

130072 / 3194 / 64300 yesterday



John Hopkins fixed the US dead numbers today and messed up the France confirmed numbers once again.

 

[samuraicrack]

But the Constitution wasn't suspended you stupid cops. They really are asking for it (it as in a massive lawsuit). Not to mention giving the sovereign citizen tards more excuses to sperg some more.

Whether it's unconstitutional is up for debate. Most legal officials agree that lawsuits against the government for enforcing quarantine and public restrictions will probably get shot down really quick.

https://www.thestate.com/news/state/north-carolina/article242010496.html

 

[I can't imagine]

Whether it's unconstitutional is up for debate. Most legal officials agree that lawsuits against the government for enforcing quarantine and public restrictions will probably get shot down really quick.

https://www.thestate.com/news/state/north-carolina/article242010496.html

Honestly, I'd be surprised if the charges aren't dropped by tomorrow. That's not a fight they wanna have, whether they technically do have the right to do it or not.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

It isn’t really that simple. We are in a declared State of National Emergency. The Governors can’t claim that their declarations os State Emergency override or are superior to the Federal Executive‘s. Nor can they go freelancing among themselves and seek to cut the Feds out of the loop. It ended badly for the last States to try that. Finally Cuomo and his cronies can shriek 10th Amendment all they want, but it’s Trump who controls the checkbook. Which gives him the de facto if not the de jury power to put an end to all of this when he wishes.

I can't remember the exact quote but someone asked Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes on what he based his belief the Federal government was the final authority and he replied it had some thing to do with the Feds winning the Civil War. His answer implied might makes right but there's also the fact he fought with the 20th Massachusetts (and was wounded with injuries that plagued him all his life) in the Civil War making him the one of the few Justices to have actual combat experience and the only one during the War Between The States, willing to put his life on the line for his convictions and legal beliefs.

Whether it's unconstitutional is up for debate. Most legal officials agree that lawsuits against the government for enforcing quarantine and public restrictions will probably get shot down really quick.

https://www.thestate.com/news/state/north-carolina/article242010496.html

A State is not the final arbiter of any issues regarding the US Constitution. The deciding body is the US Supreme Court.

edited because it was really badly written

 

[DNA_JACKED]

Probably because the fatalities were among obvious risk groups: fatties, the elderly and people with preexisting conditions who would be affected by anything anyway.

It sounds awful to say it plainly but the illness just doesn't seem worth the trouble of a year long quarantine. It's a highly contagious disease sure but not a particularly fatal one.

The fact that certain countries with loose restrictions seem to have fared well doesn't help break the sense that wuflu isn't that big of a deal.

I remain cautious about the disease and don't mind the quarantine too much as I said before. I'm even a bit of a doomer myself. Still even I have to admit that the year long quarantine sounds improbable at best and downright unenforceable at worst.

The quarantine makes sense in the beginning. We saw the pattern: the disease tended to hit all at once and overwhelm the medical system, leading to a LOT of preventable deaths. Many of the non ventilated hospitalizations have positive outcomes E.G. boris johnson, a few days on oxygen and hydrochloroquine and they are on the mend. We just couldnt handle the massive swing of patients.

Now, we know that the disease takes 2-14 days to manifest in most people, so locking down for 3 made sense. It would cut off the infection rate and give hospitals time to catch up and PPE manufacturing time to spin up. At least here in the midwest, hospitals are setting up new areas for Corona patients, we have 70+ more beds now then we did two weeks ago in our county alone. We are finishing the prep work for temporary hospitals. We can handle significantly higher patient loads then we currently have (like right now, my county can support over 1100+ hospitalizations without emergency measures, at the moment we have 88! county wide, 13 of which are corona related)

People are getting antsy because now we are looking bare minimum at 7 weeks of quarantine, the people at the top, IMO not out of malice in many cases but out of stupidity, are thinking they can choke off the virus by keeping everyone inside. This is a highly illogical choice. They see the lack of testing and the talks of another 2-3 months of this and it creates a logical break, why would you force everyone to stay inside for 7 weeks to avoid a disease with a 14 day incubation period? This leads many to become uncomfortable with the situation, because they KNOW something is wrong but dont know what it is. They see the lack of testing, the empty hospitals, the nurses out of work and the plateauing case numbers and they directly contrast what the media and the government are saying. This type of logical fallacy makes people question, even if they dont realize it.

Now, as I said IMO most state governments (I said MOST) are not doing this out of some power trip. They genuinely dont know how bad this disease will get, and they dont want to open everything for a month then have to half everything a second time, good fucking luck getting people to cooperate again. They've already let out school. they cant just call them back. And there are many worries of how many times we will have to lock down. They have no more information we do, and without solid info on antibody rate and infection spread they could be working with anything from 10% to 80% immunity by the end of april.

But being politicians, they are going about this the most back-assward way possible, and its pissing people off. The most logical method would be to continue to quarantine the elderly and the vulnerable, and anyone they live with, and let the rest of society return to their normal lives, only locking down local cities if needed when hotspots re-emerge. This is what sweeden is doing, and it is working well for them. IF the states can start showing immunization rates and spread rates more accurately, it will go a long way to quelling the rising anxiety, otherwise things will only begin to break down over the long term.

 

[Pokemonquistador2]

My state is already looking into ways for businesses to reopen - by having those businesses change their procedures to increase sanitation and limit skin contact. I think a lot of businesses are hopelessly optimistic in that regard - a place that tailors clothing is going to have employees getting uncomfortably close to their clients for fittings and germs are notorious for clinging to fabric. But other businesses, like lawn care and golf courses, probably could run with minimal contact. We're about to enter a weird time when businesses will run, but with all sorts of protective measures in place. Measures that would have seemed dystopian at this time last year.

 

[Coleslaw]

It seems like it would work the same way in both systems. In a Beveridge system, they're all covered by the NHS. In a Bismarck system, they've got a choice. If they don't take that they get assigned to the default option, which would look very like the NHS.

Basically it's a voucher system. Everyone gets one healthcare voucher, either from their taxes/national insurance or from the government. There's a choice in which healthcare provider gets the voucher but there is no choice whether it gets spent - it must go to a healthcare provider. If you don't choose you'd get the default system. In the UK there'd be something very like the NHS as the default system but you'd have BUPA and various other systems that competed with it. Though it's kind of different in that the health insurance providers and the hospitals are different. However, I think you could set it up so the default choice would look very like the current NHS system but you'd be able to choose BUPA or someone else instead.

Do you think schools should run on the Bismarck system?

 

[Dog-O-Tron 5000v5.0]

Shots fired by former CNN golden girl Soledad O'Brien

View attachment 1231411

http://archive.li/kAiqf

Ya, it;s not Trump vs CNN, it's Trump vs Jim Acosta at this point.

But TBH Trump handled today the best way possible. He miscalculated yesterday, with the video and the gloating and then getting baited by the press. Today he walked out with Pence and Pence alone by his side, who is pretty Ride or Die at this point, he stuck to the script. He cut the WHO lose, and said "of course the Governors are gonna open their states when they think is best." Saved face and took the wind out of the sails of the press. Not perfect, cause he can't erase the past and he looks like he cucked a bit, but he's not giving them the Constitutional Crisis they want.

 

[dopy]

i don't want to go back to work.

 

[Bat Soup Reviews]

My state is already looking into ways for businesses to reopen - by having those businesses change their procedures to increase sanitation and limit skin contact. I think a lot of businesses are hopelessly optimistic in that regard - a place that tailors clothing is going to have employees getting uncomfortably close to their clients for fittings and germs are notorious for clinging to fabric. But other businesses, like lawn care and golf courses, probably could run with minimal contact. We're about to enter a weird time when businesses will run, but with all sorts of protective measures in place. Measures that would have seemed dystopian at this time last year.

I honestly would not be optimistic about something like a partial reopening, with how everyone on the planet is is trying to get themselves listed as essential business (thank you gamestop) it would just be a complete shitshow.

 

[bippu_as_fuck_ls400]

@Azovka If you don't mind sharing, can you give us an update on the French situation? How is the the mood amongst your friends, colleagues, and neighbors?

 

[Meat Poultry Veg]

Whoever tweeted "Protesting is a non-essential activity" needs to be fired. Fuck these assholes.

This will just enrage people, locally and nationwide.

When pushbacks against house arrest become violent, nationwide, we can all thank the Raleigh Police Department. They have, indeed, shown everyone in the USA that they consider the people to be no more than animals.

Gonna be REAL interesting to see what happens in Raleigh next. Looking at the Twitter, suspect there may well be a much bigger demonstration tomorrow.

Think YOUR law enforcement won't say the same to YOU? Guess again.

Added: The Raleigh Police Department has opened a Pandora's box. This is going nationwide.

NWA was right

 

[Gustav Schuchardt]

Do you think schools should run on the Bismarck system?

Do you mean a voucher system? Yeah, I do.

 

[Meat Poultry Veg]

I pretty much stopped paying to case numbers and case fatality rates two weeks ago. DAE?

Particularly because of bullshit like this: