Trolling Ethics Debate Thread

[General Juicer]

She takes what she needs, when she needs it.

Interesting choice of words, Marvin.

 

[Thetan]

Maybe we could finally give him that trip to Redmond, WA?

Nah, let's send him to Anna. They could do each others hair, makeup, and nails, make smores, have pillow fights, go bra shopping together....(Anna wouldn't last a week.)

She doesn't always take specific amounts. She takes what she needs, when she needs it.

Although, the fire is a big part of that unpredictability. As they settle down, I would imagine the amount Barb takes monthly might become more consistent.

This just floors me.

Of course Chris should pay his share of the household expenses, that's only fair, but the fact that he sees nothing wrong with Barb raiding his bank account...

This makes me wonder just what happened with Barb's teeth. If she can access Chris's bank account, then she could just take out what she wanted. Chris has easily made enough on his ebay sales to cover the amount he said they needed to get Barb's dental work done.

Unless of course, the whole thing was just some sort of scam designed to part the gullible/sympathetic folks from their money.

 

[Marvin]

This just floors me.

Of course Chris should pay his share of the household expenses, that's only fair, but the fact that he sees nothing wrong with Barb raiding his bank account...

"What's yours is mine and what's mine is mine"

This makes me wonder just what happened with Barb's teeth. If she can access Chris's bank account, then she could just take out what she wanted. Chris has easily made enough on his ebay sales to cover the amount he said they needed to get Barb's dental work done.

Well, there are a few unknown aspects. Like, while Barb can arbitrarily say to Chris, "give me $X", I don't know if she necessarily watches the dollar amount in Chris' account too carefully. So if Chris has a big windfall of cash, Barb might not find out about it for awhile.

As far as the teeth go, I think they just finally scraped the cash together.

Unless of course, the whole thing was just some sort of scam designed to part the gullible/sympathetic folks from their money.

I think Barb's teeth were actually pretty fucked, as described by Chris.

 

[timtommy]

This just floors me.

Of course Chris should pay his share of the household expenses, that's only fair, but the fact that he sees nothing wrong with Barb raiding his bank account...

This makes me wonder just what happened with Barb's teeth. If she can access Chris's bank account, then she could just take out what she wanted. Chris has easily made enough on his ebay sales to cover the amount he said they needed to get Barb's dental work done.

Unless of course, the whole thing was just some sort of scam designed to part the gullible/sympathetic folks from their money.

It's weird, I grant you. I think its because we are looking it through the prism of roommates, or as a kid staying with his parents for a while. In those cases, usually the two parties sort out what is owed. Maybe a fixed monthly payment from one to the other. Maybe a fixed proportion of the expenses. Maybe a division of financial responsibilities.

Instead it is a lifetime partnership. They are sharing everything they have like an old married couple.

In other cases, what usually makes the difference between these is the permanance of the arrangement. If you are living with someone, but anticipate that you might not be living with them in a year or two, you try to keep things separate, so you can disentangle yourself when the time comes.

Barb and Chris have no interest in this. In fact, Barb seems to intentionally create entanglements between her and Chris, so that he is stuck with her for life.

A few years ago, Chris was adamant that he wasn't ready to move out, but he seemed to have vague hopes that he would in the future. When he got a sweetheart, for example. Now he seems to have resigned himself to the idea that it is a lifetime arrangement. On the Catie date, he insisted that Barb be in any long term plans the two of them had.

 

[Kosher Dill]

You know, I wonder if the reason Chris blows all his money instantly is because he knows Barb will just take it if he doesn't.

 

[Sonic Rainboom]

How much of Chris's money is Barb taking from him? With his SSDI entitlement, getting 200/mo. seems rather low even with his interest payments. I mean, yeah, Barb should still expect some of his money to help with bills, rent, and property taxes but I thought that his tugboat starts out at around 1200. Where's the money going?

When someone applies for SSI, they have to declare their income and expenses. If someone is living with family, it's common to state that the person owes a certain amount per month for rent, so it wouldn't surprise me if there is some written agreement that Barb gets $xxx from Chris's monthly tugboat. Whether they actually stick to that agreement, or Barb just takes what she wants, is another matter.

 

[Ravenor]

You know, I wonder if the reason Chris blows all his money instantly is because he knows Barb will just take it if he doesn't.

He has always been bad with money, even when Bob was paying the bill's etc he always blew what he had on what he wanted.

 

[Lipitor]

He has always been bad with money, even when Bob was paying the bill's etc he always blew what he had on what he wanted.

This is really true. People try to disagree and say "well he pays his bills on time or makes minimum payments", so he's good with money. I'm sorry that's still pretty bad especially for a man his age. He's saving nothing. He has no girlfriend or friends yet still blows all his money every month. What a fucking loser. I think the only reason he doesn't go deeper into debt is because Bob and Barb got fucking pissed at him when he signed up for all those credit cards. Once Barb is gone I wouldn't be surprised if his spending gets worse. He isn't good with money and further more isn't even willing to work for it. The only reason he does ebay crafts is because he considers it playtime. For better or worse his tugboat has poorly prepared him for his financial future.

 

[General Juicer]

I don't think that Chris's hole is going to get that much deeper after Barb dies. I mean, it's completely feasible that shit gets a lot worse for him after he forgets to pay for adult things like property taxes and insurance, but it's not like Barb is responsible with her possessions or money either. Who was the one that pissed away tens of thousands of dollars on legal fees? Her or Chris? What about her debt problems? Isn't she like several times in debt more than Chris?

 

[Marvin]

This is really true. People try to disagree and say "well he pays his bills on time or makes minimum payments", so he's good with money. I'm sorry that's still pretty bad especially for a man his age. He's saving nothing. He has no girlfriend or friends yet still blows all his money every month. What a fucking loser. I think the only reason he doesn't go deeper into debt is because Bob and Barb got fucking pissed at him when he signed up for all those credit cards. Once Barb is gone I wouldn't be surprised if his spending gets worse. He isn't good with money and further more isn't even willing to work for it. The only reason he does ebay crafts is because he considers it playtime. For better or worse his tugboat has poorly prepared him for his financial future.

He's not "good with money" in the way a normal person would be. A normal person would have a 401K and shit like that by Chris' age. But does Chris meet his obligations? Yes. And that's (depressingly) a lot better than people seem to think he's capable of.

I don't think that Chris's hole is going to get that much deeper after Barb dies. I mean, it's completely feasible that shit gets a lot worse for him after he forgets to pay for adult things like property taxes and insurance, but it's not like Barb is responsible with her possessions or money either. Who was the one that pissed away tens of thousands of dollars on legal fees? Her or Chris? What about her debt problems? Isn't she like several times in debt more than Chris?

This.

 

[timtommy]

This is really true. People try to disagree and say "well he pays his bills on time or makes minimum payments", so he's good with money. I'm sorry that's still pretty bad especially for a man his age. He's saving nothing. He has no girlfriend or friends yet still blows all his money every month. What a fucking loser. I think the only reason he doesn't go deeper into debt is because Bob and Barb got fucking pissed at him when he signed up for all those credit cards. Once Barb is gone I wouldn't be surprised if his spending gets worse. He isn't good with money and further more isn't even willing to work for it. The only reason he does ebay crafts is because he considers it playtime. For better or worse his tugboat has poorly prepared him for his financial future.

Being good with money is not a binary choice. You are not either "good with money" or "bad with money".

Should Chris be racking up less debt? Yes. Could it be worse? Yes.

We cite his ability to understand and take care of his minimum financial responsibilities as evidence he is capable of functioning on his own. That's tends to be all we say. I don't think many people call him "good with money", we just say he is not as dumb about it as he occassionally gets portrayed as being.

 

[Morbid Boredom]

Being good with money is not a binary choice. You are not either "good with money" or "bad with money".

Should Chris be racking up less debt? Yes. Could it be worse? Yes.

We cite his ability to understand and take care of his minimum financial responsibilities as evidence he is capable of functioning on his own. That's tends to be all we say. I don't think many people call him "good with money", we just say he is not as dumb about it as he occassionally gets portrayed as being.

I blame the CWCki, which people take at face value, though it's not a reliable source. The picture it paints of Chris is that he's an evil genius on the level of Keyser Soze, yet too dumb to tie his own shoes.

 

[DuskEngine]

Broadly speaking, it seems like there are two different criteria people are looking at when they evaluate the trolling - you've got the idea of 'harm', where Chris should only be preserved from things that are actively psychologically or physically damaging to him, and that his iron curtain of delusion precludes him from being treated like a functioning adult would as far as the "truth" goes.

On the other hand, there's the people who care about his autonomy (or dignity, if you prefer, whatever), and find the idea that he is literally the target of an international conspiracy of autism to be reprehensible, whether or not they claim to be acting in good faith.

The real problem here is that it's impossible to know how much Chris truly knows about his life, and how much he knows but is unwilling to admit to himself. It seems reasonable to say that his behavior has been affected to some degree by the paranoia caused by the trolls, but as people have pointed out, he was getting into plenty of trouble with Mary Lee Walsh, Michael Snyder et al without any help at all from the trolls. This could suggest that he doesn't really understand the scope of the trolling that surrounds him, but again, there's no real way to be sure.

It's also difficult to apply the standards we'd use for other people onto him - I myself would be personally devastated if a significant other turned out to be running a , but it's entirely possible that Chris found that blue arms letter from Sega, for example, to be much more distressing.

 

[Boundman]

On the other hand, there's the people who care about his autonomy (or dignity, if you prefer, whatever), and find the idea that he is literally the target of an international conspiracy of autism to be reprehensible, whether or not they claim to be acting in good faith.

It's also difficult to apply the standards we'd use for other people onto him - I myself would be personally devastated if a significant other turned out to be running a , but it's entirely possible that Chris found that blue arms letter from Sega, for example, to be much more distressing.

Issue here is, Chris willingly volunteers his dignity. No regular person would fall for such obvious ploys. Though I think BlueSpike definitely went too far in asking him to burn his house down / cut himself, I think the medallion up the ass is probably the precipice of what can be condoned. It's not going to cause major bodily harm, is an example of Chris willingly doing anything for the prospect of hankey pankey and shows that he'd drop his pride and joy (Sonichu) for a shot at some vagina.

Chris doesn't deserve trolls causing him physical pain or to be displaced from his home or anything that would seriously damage him / his lifestyle. But if he really thinks that cutting up the medallion and shoving it up his ass is worth it for Julie then let him.

 

[PantsOfDesire]

I don't think that Chris's hole is going to get that much deeper after Barb dies. I mean, it's completely feasible that shit gets a lot worse for him after he forgets to pay for adult things like property taxes and insurance, but it's not like Barb is responsible with her possessions or money either. Who was the one that pissed away tens of thousands of dollars on legal fees? Her or Chris? What about her debt problems? Isn't she like several times in debt more than Chris?

Yeah, it's the unawareness and forgetfulness that'll do him in. I'd agree with @Marvin, that he's probably meeting his commitments. The thing is, Barb, despite her financial status probably not being great, is a safety net. She can go take the money, or ask him for it, when bills are due. Barb can anticipate when big bills are due, and can begin saving the money beforehand. Without Barb, he'll continue to pay the bills as they come through the door. The credit cards are simple enough: await a bill, and then send the minimum payment. I'm guessing larger bills will be a problem, as he probably won't be planning for them, so he'll be sunk when the first big and unanticipated bill comes though. Even if he had an eBay bonanza, unless it coincides with the bill, chances are the money's already been blown on Lego and bag lady outfits. Post-Barb, the first big bill is going to be the beginning of the end. His inability to delay gratification will be his end.

 

[Marvin]

Yeah, it's the unawareness and forgetfulness that'll do him in. I'd agree with @Marvin, that he's probably meeting his commitments. The thing is, Barb, despite her financial status probably not being great, is a safety net. She can go take the money, or ask him for it, when bills are due. Barb can anticipate when big bills are due, and can begin saving the money beforehand. Without Barb, he'll continue to pay the bills as they come through the door. The credit cards are simple enough: await a bill, and then send the minimum payment. I'm guessing larger bills will be a problem, as he probably won't be planning for them, so he'll be sunk when the first big and unanticipated bill comes though. Even if he had an eBay bonanza, unless it coincides with the bill, chances are the money's already been blown on Lego and bag lady outfits. Post-Barb, the first big bill is going to be the beginning of the end. His inability to delay gratification will be his end.

I think people here underestimate how much Chris budgets for things. He doesn't just spend indiscriminately because/when Barb's not watching. He actively budgets his money. He's not great at it, but he (generally) does get the job done. When Chris pisses money away on legos, it's because he's correctly determined that he can spend the money while still meeting his obligations.

Chris buying legos isn't funny because he's constantly broke and desperately poor, it's just funny because he's an adult man pissing his spending money away on legos to build goofy things.

Where he fucks up is that he budgets too close to the line sometimes, so when something unexpected happens (like people grabbing paypal refunds), Chris has problems.

Chris can budget for things like rent and utilities. The problem is if he gets surprised by a substantially larger utility bill. During the transition period, he'll need someone on hand to help him out. I'd say after six months, Chris would have a good handle on how much his bills can fluctuate and budget accordingly. (Of course, this doesn't account for huge surprises, like a car crash or a house fire.)

Broadly speaking, it seems like there are two different criteria people are looking at when they evaluate the trolling - you've got the idea of 'harm', where Chris should only be preserved from things that are actively psychologically or physically damaging to him, and that his iron curtain of delusion precludes him from being treated like a functioning adult would as far as the "truth" goes.

On the other hand, there's the people who care about his autonomy (or dignity, if you prefer, whatever), and find the idea that he is literally the target of an international conspiracy of autism to be reprehensible, whether or not they claim to be acting in good faith.

The real problem here is that it's impossible to know how much Chris truly knows about his life, and how much he knows but is unwilling to admit to himself. It seems reasonable to say that his behavior has been affected to some degree by the paranoia caused by the trolls, but as people have pointed out, he was getting into plenty of trouble with Mary Lee Walsh, Michael Snyder et al without any help at all from the trolls. This could suggest that he doesn't really understand the scope of the trolling that surrounds him, but again, there's no real way to be sure.

It's also difficult to apply the standards we'd use for other people onto him - I myself would be personally devastated if a significant other turned out to be running a , but it's entirely possible that Chris found that blue arms letter from Sega, for example, to be much more distressing.

Y'know, I thought of something: The dignity argument applies to Borb hiring the galpals too. I mean, it's not on the same scale because Chris was a teenager at the time, but I find the parallels interesting.

The revelation about the galpals hit Chris way harder than any of the trolling did.

 

[PantsOfDesire]

I think people here underestimate how much Chris budgets for things. He doesn't just spend indiscriminately because/when Barb's not watching. He actively budgets his money. He's not great at it, but he (generally) does get the job done. When Chris pisses money away on legos, it's because he's correctly determined that he can spend the money while still meeting his obligations.

Chris buying legos isn't funny because he's constantly broke and desperately poor, it's just funny because he's an adult man pissing his spending money away on legos to build goofy things.

Where he fucks up is that he budgets too close to the line sometimes, so when something unexpected happens (like people grabbing paypal refunds), Chris has problems.

Chris can budget for things like rent and utilities. The problem is if he gets surprised by a substantially larger utility bill. During the transition period, he'll need someone on hand to help him out. I'd say after six months, Chris would have a good handle on how much his bills can fluctuate and budget accordingly. (Of course, this doesn't account for huge surprises, like a car crash or a house fire.)

I'd honestly be surprised if he learnt to cope with this without already damaging himself beyond recovery. Maybe with no other option he can do it, but I haven't seen evidence he can anticipate this kind of thing. In the past, his learning seems to come only after a major fuck-up. e.g. eventually realising the attraction sign made him look slow-in-the-mind, and Barb discouraging him from casually informing strangers of his "virgin with rage" status, but only after he's made an arse of himself. While most people can infer or extrapolate from experience, he seems to have to burn his hand on every stove in the world before he'll learn that, as a general rule, touching a hot stove is bad. You might be right there: with "training wheels" in the form of someone to bail him out, he might learn and begin to adapt to managing his finances. It's going to be quite the adventure for our heroine.

 

[Lipitor]

Y'know, I thought of something: The dignity argument applies to Borb hiring the galpals too. I mean, it's not on the same scale because Chris was a teenager at the time, but I find the parallels interesting.

The revelation about the galpals hit Chris way harder than any of the trolling did.

When exactly did he learn the galpals were hired help? Was this recently or awhile ago? I feel like I've known this for awhile, maybe I just figured it out on my own.

He seems to treat the galpals like he does with fake girlfriends. He's crushed by the revelation, but if everyone wants to go back to all being friends/lovers again he's cool with that too. Like he's willing to accept anything to have the version of reality he wants.

 

[Morbid Boredom]

When exactly did he learn the galpals were hired help? Was this recently or awhile ago? I feel like I've known this for awhile, maybe I just figured it out on my own.

In photographs, their expressions and body-language strongly indicate the "gal-pals" are merely tolerating Chris, the CWCki has said as much for years. Much like the contentious High School papers, recent revelations have confirmed what was suspected.

Chris admitted this in an email, and apparently, it was Barb who told him.

 

[Marvin]

I'd honestly be surprised if he learnt to cope with this without already damaging himself beyond recovery. Maybe with no other option he can do it, but I haven't seen evidence he can anticipate this kind of thing.

His finances aren't documented publicly. He definitely plans ahead and has a running total of his funds and his obligations in his head. He normally does a decent job. Sometimes he runs it too close to the wire and you get the situation where he couldn't afford to send out the medallion orders. But that's not actually typical for him.

We see his fuckups, but not his day-to-day life where he's typically successful at budgeting.

On his own, as far as monthly bills go, Chris would need to learn to raise his margin of error from like $100 to $400. He could do that in six months if he had Rocky around to catch him when he fucks up once or twice.

Edit: Although, I was thinking, Rocky might coddle him too much. If she's not aggressive enough in teaching him that he fucked up, what might've been a six month "life skills" student might turn into a life-long deadbeat.

When exactly did he learn the galpals were hired help? Was this recently or awhile ago? I feel like I've known this for awhile, maybe I just figured it out on my own.

I don't remember exactly, but someone could probably figure it out based on facebook posts or something.

He seems to treat the galpals like he does with fake girlfriends. He's crushed by the revelation, but if everyone wants to go back to all being friends/lovers again he's cool with that too. Like he's willing to accept anything to have the version of reality he wants.

Eh, Chris is aware that fake girlfriends can't go back to being real. Once Julie or Jackie is revealed to be fake, Chris obviously knows there isn't a china waiting for him on the other end of the chat window.

The galpals were a lot more tangible to him, which is why the revelation wrecked his world. That was real, proven china that he thought was within reach.