Off-Topic Oh, Canada! - A place to post about Timbits, hockey, moose, and maple syrup.

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If there's anything I've ever learnt about this country, it's that Quebecois are the most rancid and ungrateful form of Canadian. Ottawa had to force all pubs to shut at 12 since Gatineau drunks would hop over to Ottawa, as the pubs shut down at 2AM instead of 12, causing all sorts of holdups for actual Ontarians.
 
Well you might be right there it's been a long time since I have done much reading on the subject. Just makes the contrast between then and now that much more striking, I suppose.
Consider the fact that the Brits have said that about every not content group they had fighting for them: Australians/Kiwis, Highland regiments, Irish, and Sikhs. Besides those groups there was only two colonies sending many troops during the wars: South Africa and Rhodesia, both of which considered themselves more British than the British and primarily contributed fairly recent British colonists rather than natives. It's not as if the Brits were unique in that: the US praised Filipino troops up and down and promised them citizenship, only to avoid doing that until the 90s. Native Americans were also extolled, especially the code-talkers (who well deserved it).
 
Consider the fact that the Brits have said that about every not content group they had fighting for them: Australians/Kiwis, Highland regiments, Irish, and Sikhs. Besides those groups there was only two colonies sending many troops during the wars: South Africa and Rhodesia, both of which considered themselves more British than the British and primarily contributed fairly recent British colonists rather than natives. It's not as if the Brits were unique in that: the US praised Filipino troops up and down and promised them citizenship, only to avoid doing that until the 90s. Native Americans were also extolled, especially the code-talkers (who well deserved it).
While that is true, foreign troops are praised more than any others, Canadians have more merit to the claim than any other. During the 100 days offensive the CEF (Canadian expeditionary force) were put on the front lines the most, leading the way. The CEF took 45k casualties during that time which was quite a lot considering the small number of total CEF men. They wouldn't have been put on the front lines if they weren't really special compared to other divisions.
And while writing this there was another salient point that i was going to mention but I forgot, i'll come back when I remember it.

There's probably a good reason why a lot of these colonial troops were praised. Military theorists, notably Douglas Haig, at the time thought that the best soldiers were farmers because they had been taught from a young age to follow orders and are physically tough. In the colonies most people were farmers and lived rural lives compared to their more developed motherlands. This could explain why those men were praised more

also, 16 Germans were impaled by Hindu lancers at the battle of the Somme, imagine being a German looking out of your trench and seeing a bloody cavalry charge over no man's land. Stalin watched cowboy movies with Nikita Khrushchev
 
While that is true, foreign troops are praised more than any others, Canadians have more merit to the claim than any other. During the 100 days offensive the CEF (Canadian expeditionary force) were put on the front lines the most, leading the way. The CEF took 45k casualties during that time which was quite a lot considering the small number of total CEF men. They wouldn't have been put on the front lines if they weren't really special compared to other divisions.
And while writing this there was another salient point that i was going to mention but I forgot, i'll come back when I remember it.

There's probably a good reason why a lot of these colonial troops were praised. Military theorists, notably Douglas Haig, at the time thought that the best soldiers were farmers because they had been taught from a young age to follow orders and are physically tough. In the colonies most people were farmers and lived rural lives compared to their more developed motherlands. This could explain why those men were praised more

also, 16 Germans were impaled by Hindu lancers at the battle of the Somme, imagine being a German looking out of your trench and seeing a bloody cavalry charge over no man's land. Stalin watched cowboy movies with Nikita Khrushchev
Come to think of it, perhaps my view (that the Aussies were ultimate stud fighters but the Cannucks not necessarily anything special) stems from the fact that the Americans (of whom I am one) got to see the Aussies in action up close and personal in the jungles of the South Pacific. I understand that the Amis had a lot of respect for the fighting (especially "jungle fighting") abilities of the Aussies! The Canadians, on the other hand, didn't really fight cheek-by-jowl with the Amis very much and probably had much more to do with the Brits which would explain the Brit's appreciation of their qualities.
 
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Does Canada have a national epic like other countries? England has Beowulf (and by extension shakspear, although his works aren't really considered epics), America has the Columbiad, France has Henriade, and the rest of world has their epic literature. After looking around for a while the best Canadian literature that I could come up with is Anne of Green Gables, which is a children's book, far from anything that can be considered a national epic. I want something that uniquely embodies our history, and what can be vaguely called "the Canadian spirit" (although there's huge doubt as to whether a unique spirit exists at all, except for supreme smugness when referring to Americans.)
Terry Fox? The story of a man raising awareness of cancer research by running across the nation. Shows human spirit, and tragedy by succumbing to the illness. Or maybe House hippos.

My vote is for the running faggot.
 
This is an idea from the book Lament For A Nation by George Grant, it goes as follows
"1. The modern world evolves inexorably towards the "universal and homogeneous state," which renders local cultures redundant.
2. Canada is a local culture situated right next to the very heart of modernity, the United States.
3. Canadians think of modernity as a good thing therefore,
4. Canada, even understood by its own citizens, is redundant."

If this is true then how come Canada hasn't been consumed already? this book was written in 1965, more than 40 years have passed and nothing has happened. I believe this is because of Pierre Trudeau, the liberals used to be about free trade and economic integration but when Pierre came into office he instituted protectionist policies and once again Canada was a separate economic entity from the world economy.
 
Cross posting from the Rebel Media thread, since this belongs here more than anything. Real talk why does Canada think it's better than America?


Americans don't realize how shitty Canadians are, so I'll take a moment to educate everyone:

1) Canadians hate Americans.



As you can see, Canadians are so much less charitable towards Americans than vice versa. This is leads into point #2

2) Canadian cultural identity is based around a purported ethical/intellectual/cultural superiority.

Canadian media has pushed this narrative for the last 40 years or so. When I was a kid, there were programs on TV where "comedians" would travel to the US and ask pointed questions about the world and then call the subject stupid when they invariably got something wrong (cowardly using voice over). i.e. asking about Canadian politics, or getting them to refer to provinces as States

We also have laws that MANDATE radio/tv/other media be from 40-60% Canadian content, which is justified by saying that to permit anything less would mean cultural takeover.


3)Canadians benefit enormously from our proximity with America

The only reason we can afford most of our left-wing social programs is because we get enormous benefits from our association with America. We only have a tiny military (although they are generally well trained and love America from serving with them) and yet we do not meet our NATO spending obligations. Trump confronted Trudeau about this and it was a pretty amazing event. We also get lots of benefits economically and so on. The sad part however is that there is no political will in our country to return the favour, or to be a loyal friend to America.

Anyways, the end result of all of this is that generally our country tries as hard as possible to be not-America, and as a result you get things like state enforced HRT and "I LOVE SCIENCE" as our national attitude. The only reason Canada hasn't faced any consequences for this is because most of America is either unaware, or doesn't give a shit what we think. I fucking hate this country.

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If Canada was far away from America, most likely it would end up just like Russia has.

First, Russia is next closest equivalent to Canada in terms of land, size, weather and other hard physical factors, but without the protection-by-association from America's Godzilla size military, without suckling off of America's excellent access to imported goods, access to American colleges and universities, basically having the easiest access to visit the US of any country, etc.

Second: Russia also tried doing the socialist (communist) thing, and it completely fucked the country up because it wasn't sustainable. They killed their farmers, ripped apart families, and caused the negligent death of millions trying to reinvent the wheel of society itself.
Oh, and they were getting invaded by Hitler due to being so close to Europe's monarchy/imperial bull-fucking-shit at the time. (Again, no America defense bonuses)

Third: Obviously since Russia lost millions of people, their country has had problems ever since. They're currently a stereotypically hyper-conservative culture, due to violently whip-lashing away from the extreme leftism. Gays are killed, hitting your wife is allowed again, everyone is poor, and they're gonna be still picking up the pieces for another couple generations, at least.

Fourth and final: keep in mind that Russia is responsible for Karl Marx, who is the prophet-of-choice, now, for edgy far-left spergs. Since so many troons are unironic hardcore tankies, there's zero doubt that Yaniv has been influenced by that very autistic Marx dick-worship.

Canada, despite being so fucking far away from the bullshit of eastern Europe, is still suckered into it. And they're the ones who look down on us? Wow.

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If Canada was far away from America, most likely it would end up just like Russia has.

First, Russia is next closest equivalent to Canada in terms of land, size, weather and other hard physical factors, but without the protection-by-association from America's Godzilla size military, without suckling off of America's excellent access to imported goods, access to American colleges and universities, basically having the easiest access to visit the US of any country, etc.
I don't know if you know this but most Canadians go to Canadian universities, proximity to American universities is in the most literally sense not an issue. Something like 15% of students study abroad and their top destination is France not America.

You have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to international trade, the Nords and even Australia have the same type of welfare state we do without having any proximity to America. And with the advent of modernity "being close" to another country really doesn't factor into anything other than marginally increased shipping costs. So no, Canada doesn't rely on America for its welfare state. And as if we import anything important from America anyways, our manufacturing has been shipped off to other countries so if there was anything important we were importing from America it has long since been passed over to the third world and China.

Second: Russia also tried doing the socialist (communist) thing, and it completely fucked the country up because it wasn't sustainable. They killed their farmers, ripped apart families, and caused the negligent death of millions trying to reinvent the wheel of society itself.
Oh, and they were getting invaded by Hitler due to being so close to Europe's monarchy/imperial bull-fucking-shit at the time. (Again, no America defense bonuses)

Third: Obviously since Russia lost millions of people, their country has had problems ever since. They're currently a stereotypically hyper-conservative culture, due to violently whip-lashing away from the extreme leftism. Gays are killed, hitting your wife is allowed again, everyone is poor, and they're gonna be still picking up the pieces for another couple generations, at least.

Fourth and final: keep in mind that Russia is responsible for Karl Marx, who is the prophet-of-choice, now, for edgy far-left spergs. Since so many troons are unironic hardcore tankies, there's zero doubt that Yaniv has been influenced by that very autistic Marx dick-worship.
This whole thing is dependent on the scenario that Canada ends up with an aggressive neighbour like Germany. The situation of Russia today is due to outside forces, the Germans started the Russian revolution which led to 70 years of communism and communism is why Russia is the way it is today.

Canada isn't a socialist country, socialism means that the workers (the state) owns the means of production, Canada is an interventionist country meaning that the government has a hand in the economy but they don't directly manipulate it like more authoritarian governments. The closest economy to Canada is France.

If we suppose that Canada was just a massive island in the Pacific like another notable colony (Australia) then Canada would just be a cold Australia, which it essentially already is. Australia is an interventionist country and they haven't suffered any problems (aside from the institutional rot suffered by the western world as a whole.)

Canada, despite being so fucking far away from the bullshit of eastern Europe, is still suckered into it. And they're the ones who look down on us? Wow.
I have no idea what you mean by that. If you're talking about the economy then you have no idea what you're talking about because you're economically illiterate. It's hard not to look down on Americans if this is the best you've got

Edit: I just found this out now, but Canada has a TRADE SURPLUS with America, meaning, in the most literal sense, Canada doesn't rely as much on America as America does on Canada
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Counterpoint:

Individual Canadians do get special access to America via treaties such as NAFTA, by way of things like student visa streamlining, NAFTA work visas, and ease of travel. For example there is a program called NEXUS that allows frequent cross-border travellers to essentially skip customs by front loading the background checks.

Its actually very well known that Canada experiences a constant "brain-drain" to the USA, because skilled workers such as engineers and scientists can make as much as double or more by choosing a career state-side. This is something everyone knows about.

Regarding benefits to American proximity: My original post did not necessarily mean physical proximity, but rather the geopolitical proximity. All the nations you mentioned are members of NATO, just like canada. Also Canada does have an aggressive neighbour, its called the United States of America. We just happen to have a good relationship for the time being. My whole point was that Canadians take this relationship for granted, and if things were to change we could be at serious risk of being annexed. The most likely scenario where this happens is in pursuit of freshwater resources later this century.

Regarding Trade deficits, the picture you showed actually demonstrates Canada's reliance on America. If tariffs or a straight up blockade were enforced, Canada would lose out big time since our economy is much more dependent on the relationship. Remember that those numbers do not reflect the percentage of each countries economy that depends on the trade. Canada's economy is insignificant in comparison to the US so if both went to zero overnight in a trade war, America would barely feel it, while Canada would be in a world of hurt.

Regarding the socialism in the economy, this was actually one of the main things that trump raised as an issue, namely the massive government subsidies that dairy farmers receive. Its unfair in a free trade relationship for one side to be receiving such industrial welfare. Canada is obviously not fully socialist, but it has many sectors in which there is a great deal of government meddling.


Anyways, I'm no "expert", but I think its fair to question why Canadians have the attitude they do about America.
 
Regarding benefits to American proximity: My original post did not necessarily mean physical proximity, but rather the geopolitical proximity. All the nations you mentioned are members of NATO, just like canada. Also Canada does have an aggressive neighbour, its called the United States of America. We just happen to have a good relationship for the time being. My whole point was that Canadians take this relationship for granted, and if things were to change we could be at serious risk of being annexed. The most likely scenario where this happens is in pursuit of freshwater resources later this century.

Regarding Trade deficits, the picture you showed actually demonstrates Canada's reliance on America. If tariffs or a straight up blockade were enforced, Canada would lose out big time since our economy is much more dependent on the relationship. Remember that those numbers do not reflect the percentage of each countries economy that depends on the trade. Canada's economy is insignificant in comparison to the US so if both went to zero overnight in a trade war, America would barely feel it, while Canada would be in a world of hurt.

Canada is probably the more aggressive neighbour (ironically) since we attacked the US at one point. US never tried something similar. In this hypothetical though, it's in the best interests for both countries to get along. Attacking Canada would be stupid, Canada has several allies who'd be more willing to help Canada than the US which would lead to american troops defending the west coast. Russia would definitely invade America via Alaska or the Californian coast where it'd be easier to land troops. America would be fighting a losing war on multiple fronts ala Germany in WWII. I really don't understand why you think every canadian takes good political relations with the US for granted.

Trade was buggered up for a while on a number of things(mostly fruit) when Trump took office, Canada merely got it elsewhere.


"So self sufficiency comes down to whether a country could feed its people with its own production, not whether it actually is. By that measure, which is the one used by the U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization, very few countries qualify. The only country in Europe that’s self-sufficient is France. Other countries in the exclusive club of self sufficiency: Canada, Australia, Russia, India, Argentina, Burma, Thailand, the U.S. and a few small others."

Theres a lot of countries that don't "rely" on others to sustain themselves, its just the nature of trade and imports and exports, supply and demand. You may be blowing things a little out of proportion.
 
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Counterpoint:

Individual Canadians do get special access to America via treaties such as NAFTA, by way of things like student visa streamlining, NAFTA work visas, and ease of travel. For example there is a program called NEXUS that allows frequent cross-border travellers to essentially skip customs by front loading the background checks.

Its actually very well known that Canada experiences a constant "brain-drain" to the USA, because skilled workers such as engineers and scientists can make as much as double or more by choosing a career state-side. This is something everyone knows about.

Regarding benefits to American proximity: My original post did not necessarily mean physical proximity, but rather the geopolitical proximity. All the nations you mentioned are members of NATO, just like canada. Also Canada does have an aggressive neighbour, its called the United States of America. We just happen to have a good relationship for the time being. My whole point was that Canadians take this relationship for granted, and if things were to change we could be at serious risk of being annexed. The most likely scenario where this happens is in pursuit of freshwater resources later this century.

Regarding Trade deficits, the picture you showed actually demonstrates Canada's reliance on America. If tariffs or a straight up blockade were enforced, Canada would lose out big time since our economy is much more dependent on the relationship. Remember that those numbers do not reflect the percentage of each countries economy that depends on the trade. Canada's economy is insignificant in comparison to the US so if both went to zero overnight in a trade war, America would barely feel it, while Canada would be in a world of hurt.

Regarding the socialism in the economy, this was actually one of the main things that trump raised as an issue, namely the massive government subsidies that dairy farmers receive. Its unfair in a free trade relationship for one side to be receiving such industrial welfare. Canada is obviously not fully socialist, but it has many sectors in which there is a great deal of government meddling.


Anyways, I'm no "expert", but I think its fair to question why Canadians have the attitude they do about America.
Who cares about Canda's attitude toward America or anything else? It's Canda--again, who cares?
 
America would be fighting a losing war on multiple fronts ala Germany in WWII.

bro, do you actually think this?

I think you need to take a hard look at the political reality

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and LOL at the idea of Russia jumping at the chance to defend Canada, or anyone for that matter. the world would grumble just like they did when Russia took Crimea, despite all of the allies they had too
 
bro, do you actually think this?

I think you need to take a hard look at the political reality

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and LOL at the idea of Russia jumping at the chance to defend Canada, or anyone for that matter. the world would grumble just like they did when Russia took Crimea, despite all of the allies they had too

lol, chill out a bit, again it's just a hypothetical. I never said they'd defend Canada, Russia would attack the US in an attempt to remove them as a military superpower while their forces are occupied. A "rabbit punch" so to say.

Also, that's not a political reality, it's military expenditure ;)... Money alone can't win wars, South Vietnam was annexed despite the NVA being up against a force with a technological superiority.
 
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Individual Canadians do get special access to America via treaties such as NAFTA, by way of things like student visa streamlining, NAFTA work visas, and ease of travel. For example there is a program called NEXUS that allows frequent cross-border travellers to essentially skip customs by front loading the background checks.
It works both ways so I don't believe any particular country benefits unless there's evidence that Canada disproportionately benefits from that.

Its actually very well known that Canada experiences a constant "brain-drain" to the USA, because skilled workers such as engineers and scientists can make as much as double or more by choosing a career state-side. This is something everyone knows about.
Sure, but this doesn't make Canada dependent on America. Eastern Europe is experiencing a brain drain but those countries aren't particularly reliant on western Europe. This point just strengthens the protectionist position (I don't know if you're for or against protectionism but I believe free trade has done more harm to Canada than immigration), if Canada brought back base industries then the brain drain would stop. This whole topic was covered extensively in the book the vanishing country, but to sum it up, Canadian lawyers and engineers are leaving Canada because there's nothing for them in Canada, but if we brought back the head offices of these companies then the people working in America would come back.

Regarding benefits to American proximity: My original post did not necessarily mean physical proximity, but rather the geopolitical proximity. All the nations you mentioned are members of NATO, just like canada. Also Canada does have an aggressive neighbour, its called the United States of America. We just happen to have a good relationship for the time being. My whole point was that Canadians take this relationship for granted, and if things were to change we could be at serious risk of being annexed. The most likely scenario where this happens is in pursuit of freshwater resources later this century.
Ever since the Breton Woods agreement America has been the protector of all the world. Proximity doesn't matter because America has a zero tolerance policy on warmongers. They'd protect Kuwait from an Iraqi invasion the same they'd protect Canada from Russian invasion. And, no doubt America is a warmongering nation, they expanded all across the American continent and across the Pacific into the Philippines, they have no need for formal conquest, but if the formal international treaties expired then they would turn to conquest once again and Canada would be first in their imperialist wars. But the poor Americans haven't read their Mahan, once they recede they won't come back.

Regarding Trade deficits, the picture you showed actually demonstrates Canada's reliance on America. If tariffs or a straight up blockade were enforced, Canada would lose out big time since our economy is much more dependent on the relationship. Remember that those numbers do not reflect the percentage of each countries economy that depends on the trade. Canada's economy is insignificant in comparison to the US so if both went to zero overnight in a trade war, America would barely feel it, while Canada would be in a world of hurt.
I don't disagree, however both America and Canada have the capability to essentially be self sustaining countries. If an international blockade were placed on Canada then we would recover due time, probably stronger than ever. For example, once the Entente blockade was placed on Germany German industry started booming despite having no international trade, the same thing would happen to Canada. So, however dependent on America we are now can be cured with protectionism.

Regarding the socialism in the economy, this was actually one of the main things that trump raised as an issue, namely the massive government subsidies that dairy farmers receive. Its unfair in a free trade relationship for one side to be receiving such industrial welfare. Canada is obviously not fully socialist, but it has many sectors in which there is a great deal of government meddling.
International trade is supposed to be fair, so when a country puts forward policies to further their own economic interests the United Nations throws a fit. America was mad because we weren't playing fair by "the laws of international trade" that were dictated by the UN. But I am in favour of the dairy cartels and other government subsidies if it means that Canadian industry survives, and if that means cutting off trade relations with the US then so be it

Anyways, I'm no "expert", but I think its fair to question why Canadians have the attitude they do about America.
most Canadians are pompous assholes when they talk about the United States and I hate it just as much as you do. From my own experience most Canadians have no idea what their even talking about when they talk about America. They talk about it as if it's one monolithic entity when the reality could be farther from the truth. I literally had to explain to one of my friends that not all Americans are gun toting Bible loving conservatives, I had to point out that there political differences between different parts of America.

But at the same time I'm glad that Canadians think about America the way they do because it means that they will reject union with the states and Canada lives to see another day. Hopefully Canada becomes like Austria and we develop a totally different history and culture while still speaking the same language as our bigger neighbour.
 
But at the same time I'm glad that Canadians think about America the way they do because it means that they will reject union with the states and Canada lives to see another day. Hopefully Canada becomes like Austria and we develop a totally different history and culture while still speaking the same language as our bigger neighbour.

Nice, this is really about how you have rampant fear of being cucked by America because your culture might be too weak.
 
Nice, this is really about how you have rampant fear of being cucked by America because your culture might be too weak.
The priority of the state is to perpetuate itself, as a citizen of this country I must see it through that this country exists in the future whether for good or ill, "culture" and "history" are just side effects of existing
 
The priority of the state is to perpetuate itself, as a citizen of this country I must see it through that this country exists in the future whether for good or ill, "culture" and "history" are just side effects of existing
Calm down, we don't want Canada that bad, the last thing we need is to add the people who elected Trudeau to our voter population.

Anyone sick of that shit in Canada is welcome to flee south, though.
 
Calm down, we don't want Canada that bad, the last thing we need is to add the people who elected Trudeau to our voter population.

Anyone sick of that shit in Canada is welcome to flee south, though.
I doubt very much anyone would want to go to a country where you have to pay 45k for a broken arm. And by the way, the conservatives won the popular vote last election so adding Canada to the united states would help Dro ompf f
 
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