VHS Archiving - How do I do it right for a reasonable price?

[Judge Dredd]

I have a lot of VHS tapes I want to archive. Some of which are shows that I don’t think are archived anywhere else. If they are, I’ve never seen them.

There is a problem. Trying to find advice on the best way to archive these tapes has resulted in me finding two extreme answers.

1. Buy a used Dazzle card for £5 off ebay.
2. Buy a Frameister upscaler, and run that into an Elgato Pro capture card. Total cost: over £700.

A third answer (more of an answer 1-b) is the Technology Connections solution of buying a no-name converter from China.

Surely there’s a middle ground between spending close to a grand on professional level equipment, and a second-hand off-the-shelf capture card from 8 years ago? Of the two, the cheap option is the most tempting, but I thought I’d ask kiwis about it since there’s people who care about archiving here.

Spoiler: What is being archived in case that matters

The shows being archived are listed here in order of priority.

1. Video game review shows. While popular shows like Games Master, Cybernet, and VideoGaiden are well documented. Shows like Bits, Thumb Bandits, Game Over, and Gamer.tv are more obscure. If any of these shows (popular or obscure) are available anywhere, I’d like to know.
2. Harry Hill’s TV Burp. I love this show, but unfortunately it will likely never get shown again or get a full DVD release due to copyright issues. I believe the episodes are out there somewhere as some are occasionally uploaded to YouTube before being pulled. I grab them when I can, but my collections are incomplete.
3. Bad old anime. Most of the shows I care about have gotten re-releases on blu-ray or are available via less than legal means. Shitty anime however is harder to find, and the DVDs have high prices due to the “collectors market”. VHS copies remain fairly cheap. I don’t mind the quality hit, some dvds are just VHS transfers anyway.

I’m far from an expert on video compression and video editing, but I know a thing or two about framerate, interlacing, and the trade offs of quality, render time, and file size. Though any tips or advice, no matter how basic, are welcome.

I have no problem recording raw video and compressing them after the fact, even if it takes a long time.

I want to keep videos as high quality as reasonably possible. I’d like to preserve the framerate on 50hz videos, though it’s not a big deal if I can’t. I don’t know if I’ll deinterlace them before compression or leave them interlaced.

 

[muh_moobs]

Wow. I'm surprised VHS conversion is so expensive now.

Are you looking to get rid of your tapes, or just have a back-up to reduce wear-and-tear?

 

[Buster O'Keefe]

Good luck with this: I look forward to watching Bits again as I had considerable thirst for Emily Booth.

 

[Judge Dredd]

I'd like to get rid of my tapes completely, but I'm in no rush to do so. My main concern is I don't know how long they'll last. It would also be more convenient. I've not counted, but some quick maths (1 inch per tape, 2 stacks about 6 feet tall, plus some on a shelf) puts that number at over 200 tapes.

The high end capture equipment is something I doubt is required. The Framemeister sells itself on having higher quality pixel art on modern TVs. Elgato capture cards sell for a premium for no reason I can see. Plus, capturing something at 4k 144fps seems like overkill for VHS archival. I assume those are pro or semi-pro devices, the kind of thing you get if you're doing Let's Plays of old Zelda games or reviewing the latest Assassins Creed.


@Buster O'Keefe bad news. I doubt I have many episodes of Bits, if any. At the time I didn't like how they focused more on the girls taking soapy baths than the games.

 

[Kosher Dill]

Modern digital devices like the Elgato or XCAPTURE cards aren't the right tool for the job here. They handle the low-res, 4:3, noisy signal of VHS poorly. As far as VHS capture goes, enthusiasts swear by this unlikely-looking device:
ATI TV Wonder 600
(There are internal card versions of this too, which some prefer, but they require ancient motherboards and operating systems)
That plus VirtualDub 1.9.4 (not the latest version) and your codecs of choice should be all you need as far as computer setup.

You should also find the best VCR in your budget - ideally one with a built-in TBC (timebase corrector).

 

[XYZpdq]

I was getting decent results on some cheap USB external thing
VHS looks like shit so doing some super doubleplus upscale is kind of a waste of time and effort.

 

[Pokemonquistador2]

I have some home movies I'd like to convert from VHS, along with some student films a friend gifted me back in college. I also have lots of home movies on Super 8 dating from the 60s and 70s and no idea how I would convert that without pointing a video camera on a screen as it plays on an old projector.

 

[George Orson Welles]

@Judge Dredd About Harry Hill's TV Burp, on /t/, (yes 4chon /t/) there's the entire collection from what I remember seeing, I'll check up on it and put the link here when I find it.
EDIT: APPARENTLY 4chon also scrubbed it's servers of TV Burp, especially on /t/, sorry man.

 

[tehpope]

DVD Recorder. You save the interlacing of the vhs plus its kind of lossless. MPEG2 does have some issues with the codec, but its pretty good. The file sizes won't be gigantic. Only real issue is most modes over an hour will save the audio as lossy, but might not be a big deal. You still will want to deinterlace it if you plan on watching it on a modern display, but YADIF is pretty fucking good. And converting files really isn't a strain on computers today if you have a good processor. Hell, you can skip the last sentence if you watch your videos in VLC and just chose a deinterlacer in there. MPV can deinterlace and works fine.

The only issue with DVD recorders is that you can't capture anything with macrovision. Every DVD Recorder will through up an error if it catches it. There are devices out there that sit inbetween your VCR and the DVD Recorder that will strip the signal of it, but I've never dabbled with that. If you're capturing from Laserdisc or off the air recordings, they won't have any of those issues. Capture Cards will ignore the Macrovision signal and allow you to capture it.

If you want to squeeze the best quality out of your tapes, keep your cable runs short. Gold connectors are good too. If you can find Monster Cables for cheap, get em. They're usually the best but were expensive as fuck back in the day.

I've used this setup and works well: JVC S-VHS > Panasonic DMR-ES10 or E20 > Retrotink 2x Pro > Magewell Pro Capture HDMI. The colors are a bit better on there than the ATI TV Wonder 600 USB. I have issues feeding the Magewell interlace content. I'm not confident with its deinterlacer. Not that its bad or anything. But I'd rather do it in software. The ATI TV Wonder 600 USB is great, minus some color issues. But it accepts interlace content like a champ. I did use it in windows 10. maybe 7, and had no issues. There are drivers online for it in 64 bit.

The interlacing is important for material sourced from film. If you want to return the material to its proper frame rate, you'll need the interlace signal. Its nigh impossible to do it without. Software like VapourSynth and Avisynth can do it. Those software are also helpful and cleaning up the signal. If you have any questions, I can answer. I've used both in the past.

I used some japanese software for capturing in the past. It has english menusand works great. Recently used ffmpeg in command line on linux and works great. Probably will work in Windows too. I had issues with VirtualDub in the past. Long captures would loose sync. Which is why I went with the former options.

tldr - DVD Recorder. ATI TV Wonder 600 USB if you can find it for cheap. EasyCAP seems to be decent and works well with the right tools. Don't get the Magewell Pro Capture HDMI. Its $300 and you can do a lot better for cheaper. Unless you need uncompressed colors.

https://gordonlesti.com/digitize-a-vhs-tape-with-ffmpeg-and-easycap-on-linux/ - steps on how to do it in linux.

 

[XYZpdq]

with the right tools.

from my experience OSB did the job, but as far as I know any program will require a fuckton of tweaking the video settings, usually having to nudge them some in one direction or another for each recording
NTSC is nobody's friend either
edit- now that I think about it UK was PAL, dunno if PAL is as big a mess to get going like that

 

[muh_moobs]

I'd like to get rid of my tapes completely, but I'm in no rush to do so. My main concern is I don't know how long they'll last. It would also be more convenient. I've not counted, but some quick maths (1 inch per tape, 2 stacks about 6 feet tall, plus some on a shelf) puts that number at over 200 tapes.

The high end capture equipment is something I doubt is required. The Framemeister sells itself on having higher quality pixel art on modern TVs. Elgato capture cards sell for a premium for no reason I can see. Plus, capturing something at 4k 144fps seems like overkill for VHS archival. I assume those are pro or semi-pro devices, the kind of thing you get if you're doing Let's Plays of old Zelda games or reviewing the latest Assassins Creed.


@Buster O'Keefe bad news. I doubt I have many episodes of Bits, if any. At the time I didn't like how they focused more on the girls taking soapy baths than the games.

Keep 'em. Analog will outlast the digital media you transfer your media to.

 

[XYZpdq]

Keep 'em. Analog will outlast the digital media you transfer your media to.

not necessarily
there's a time limit on magnetic tape, the signal loses strength over time and in worst case scenario the magnetic stuff just falls off the tape

 

[muh_moobs]

not necessarily
there's a time limit on magnetic tape, the signal loses strength over time and in worst case scenario the magnetic stuff just falls off the tape

Will still outlast data decay unless you're using VHS tapes as frisbees.

 

[Kosher Dill]

JVC S-VHS > Panasonic DMR-ES10 or E20

Why do you use the ES10 here? Doesn't a JVC SVHS deck have its own TBC already?

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

not necessarily
there's a time limit on magnetic tape, the signal loses strength over time and in worst case scenario the magnetic stuff just falls off the tape

Especially on players with dirty heads; even small amounts of dust/residue will damage old tapes. Clean the thing after every use.

 

[tehpope]

Why do you use the ES10 here? Doesn't a JVC SVHS deck have its own TBC already?

I use the ES10 as a comb filter. The lower end SVHS decks don't have TBCs. I have one in the 6XXX-7XXX range and it doesn't have TBC. Transport is great though.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Thanks for all the advice so far.

I did some googling on the devices recommended here. The ATI TV Wonder 600 is not available in the UK. Every listing I can find is to import the device from the US or Canada. The Retrotink 2x Pro seems to be a retro game upscaler like the Framemeister, and at £150 it's at the upper end of my budget. I'll keep it in mind as an option.

VHS looks like shit so doing some super doubleplus upscale is kind of a waste of time and effort.

I've seen VHS rips that, to me, look way worse than what VHS actually looked. I don't remember VHS back in the day having washed out colours, blown out reds, and images that are barely more than wobbly smears. The results in the video @tehpope posted seems decent enough.

@Judge Dredd About Harry Hill's TV Burp, on /t/, (yes 4chon /t/) there's the entire collection from what I remember seeing, I'll check up on it and put the link here when I find it.
EDIT: APPARENTLY 4chon also scrubbed it's servers of TV Burp, especially on /t/, sorry man.

At least I now know the episodes are out there somewhere and are not lost to time. Maybe in a few years they'll turn up on Archive.org or something. Until then, I'll just keep grabbing them from YouTube.

Keep 'em. Analog will outlast the digital media you transfer your media to.

This is why you keep multiple back ups. With hard drives getting bigger all the time, it's possible to store multiple old drives on a single drive. In the case of video, a single 2tb drive can hold 400 dvds worth of video. That's before we get into modern video codecs that can compress video even more with no quality difference.

I have no reason to throw them out yet, so I can keep them for a while longer I think.

 

[XYZpdq]

I've seen VHS rips that, to me, look way worse than what VHS actually looked. I don't remember VHS back in the day having washed out colours, blown out reds, and images that are barely more than wobbly smears. The results in the video @tehpope posted seems decent enough.

it's a mix of a lot of stuff, how you taped it initially, how the tape has held up over the quarter-century since it was recorded, and how you config your gizmo is a lot of that particular battle
but you do hit diminishing returns pretty quickly

 

[George Orson Welles]

At least I now know the episodes are out there somewhere and are not lost to time. Maybe in a few years they'll turn up on Archive.org or something. Until then, I'll just keep grabbing them from YouTube.

Yeah it seems that pulling them from YT is honestly your best bet until archive.org gets the full collection, I apologize if I got your hopes up.

 

[Ciscoipphone]

How many do you have? You can send them to some 3rd party service I think the average now is around £7 per tape but you could probably negotiate a bulk price