Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

I'd rather franchises I like have a definitive beginning, middle and end with no further entries.

This is basically the reason why I'm actually ok with the old Legends EU as is. Crucible isn't a perfect finisher, but you can tell it's the moment Han, Luke and Leia basically announce they are stepping back. Han/Leia likely heading off to a private estate to be their retirement home and Luke continuing to act as a basic teacher and mentor to Ben and the rest of the NJO. (But not wanting to be on the front lines or even part of the council necessarily.)

Though in an ideal situation, I would have liked a few more bridging stories between the end of Crucible and the start of the Legacy comics. The cancelled Sword of the Jedi trilogy would likely have gone into Jaina's eventual pregnancy and the creation of the Imperial Knights. That could have gone a long way.

It's not perfect, but the post ROTJ EU really does hold up well all things considered. Especially for being over 20+ years in the making.
 
Though in an ideal situation, I would have liked a few more bridging stories between the end of Crucible and the start of the Legacy comics. The cancelled Sword of the Jedi trilogy would likely have gone into Jaina's eventual pregnancy and the creation of the Imperial Knights. That could have gone a long way.

It's not perfect, but the post ROTJ EU really does hold up well all things considered. Especially for being over 20+ years in the making.
Someone in the EU Community actually wrote their own unofficial version of the Sword Of The Jedi Trilogy in 2018, and it got rave reviews and notoriety from the EU readerbase on old-school forums like Force.Net as well as newer hubs like r/ExpandedUniverse. It's not official by any means, and I haven't read it myself, but it's apparently written to a high standard and attempts to bridge the Fate Of The Jedi era with the Legacy Comics, effecitively bridging one of the last narrative gaps left open by the Expanded Universe.
 
Someone in the EU Community actually wrote their own unofficial version of the Sword Of The Jedi Trilogy in 2018, and it got rave reviews and notoriety from the EU readerbase on old-school forums like Force.Net as well as newer hubs like r/ExpandedUniverse. It's not official by any means, and I haven't read it myself, but it's apparently written to a high standard and attempts to bridge the Fate Of The Jedi era with the Legacy Comics, effecitively bridging one of the last narrative gaps left open by the Expanded Universe.

I had heard of that but never really remembered to track it down.
 
Someone in the EU Community actually wrote their own unofficial version of the Sword Of The Jedi Trilogy in 2018, and it got rave reviews and notoriety from the EU readerbase on old-school forums like Force.Net as well as newer hubs like r/ExpandedUniverse. It's not official by any means, and I haven't read it myself, but it's apparently written to a high standard and attempts to bridge the Fate Of The Jedi era with the Legacy Comics, effecitively bridging one of the last narrative gaps left open by the Expanded Universe.
If it's the author/series I'm thinking of, they go by HandOfThrawn45.


The post EU books are the Sword of the Jedi series (name taken from the cancelled book trilogy). I have read these 3 books, and they are pretty damn good. It serves more as an end for the EU, rather than a bridge series.

The author wrote another series called Jedi of the Future that bridges the "main" continuity with the Legacy era, released within the last year. I haven't read those yet, but in general, I have had way more enjoyment reading this author's work than say, Kevin J Anderson's Star Wars or Dune trash.
 
Giving Kevin J. Anderson any kind of power to influence the trajectory of Star Wars is and has been a mistake. I'd replace him in that list with Stackpole.
from my experience KJA seems like a nice enough egg who does what he's told to the best of his ability
gigo, so when Dune's Son asks him to make a pile of stupid shit (per Dune's Son's Mon's Ghost's Instructions) he makes a pile of stupid shit, when Publisher says "we want that YA money for Star Wars" he make a nice enough story about force kids at force school
 
What'd he do?

He got MeToo'd by some stronk gaming industry wahmmyn. To sum it up, her "story" is that she and Avellone got piss drunk after some convention panel, he got her to her hotel room and gave her a kiss to (supposedly) try and score, she said no and Avellone, like the rapist monster he is, said 'ok' and left, never pursuing her romantically again.

Yes, as stupid as it sounds, he got canceled because some Current Year twat has post-hangover regret over a kiss. Funnier still, this is a tweet she made a day after the supposed incident:

1594453266902-png.1441295


Notice how the woke drones' sensibilities weren't yet cranked up to 11 during the pre-cancel culture era.

Sadly, instead of refuting the accusations or at least wisely shutting the fuck up, Avellone chose to bend the knee and cuck to his accusers in a most pathetic way, which admittedly soured my regard of him pretty heavily:

1592672353547-png.1399037


After this "accusation" and some other, even less significant ones, Techland and Paradox, publishers for the upcoming Dying Light 2 and Bloodlines 2 respectively, have announced they will drop their collaboration with Avellone as well as any contribution he might have had to those games' stories. This still pisses me off, as I was looking forward to what he'd bring to the table in these games, even as Bloodlines 2 shapes up to be more and more of a woke trainwreck by the day.

Much as I still respect Avellone's work (especially KoTOR2, possibly my favorite Star Wars media ever), I'm not to keen to see the toll which cancellation and wokeness will take on his prospective storytelling ventures (if any).

source and additional info (including an "article" covering the big "story"): https://kiwifarms.net/threads/chris-avellone-metood.72020/
 
He got MeToo'd by some stronk gaming industry wahmmyn. To sum it up, her "story" is that she and Avellone got piss drunk after some convention panel, he got her to her hotel room and gave her a kiss to (supposedly) try and score, she said no and Avellone, like the rapist monster he is, said 'ok' and left, never pursuing her romantically again.

Yes, as stupid as it sounds, he got canceled because some Current Year twat has post-hangover regret over a kiss. Funnier still, this is a tweet she made a day after the supposed incident:

1594453266902-png.1441295


Notice how the woke drones' sensibilities weren't yet cranked up to 11 during the pre-cancel culture era.

Sadly, instead of refuting the accusations or at least wisely shutting the fuck up, Avellone chose to bend the knee and cuck to his accusers in a most pathetic way, which admittedly soured my regard of him pretty heavily:

1592672353547-png.1399037


After this "accusation" and some other, even less significant ones, Techland and Paradox, publishers for the upcoming Dying Light 2 and Bloodlines 2 respectively, have announced they will drop their collaboration with Avellone as well as any contribution he might have had to those games' stories. This still pisses me off, as I was looking forward to what he'd bring to the table in these games, even as Bloodlines 2 shapes up to be more and more of a woke trainwreck by the day.

Much as I still respect Avellone's work (especially KoTOR2, possibly my favorite Star Wars media ever), I'm not to keen to see the toll which cancellation and wokeness will take on his prospective storytelling ventures (if any).

source and additional info (including an "article" covering the big "story"): https://kiwifarms.net/threads/chris-avellone-metood.72020/

Sad stuff. But I kindof think that's why anyone taking over Lucasfilm isn't going to matter. Anything to come out now will have to be safe and PC to survive.

from my experience KJA seems like a nice enough egg who does what he's told to the best of his ability
gigo, so when Dune's Son asks him to make a pile of stupid shit (per Dune's Son's Mon's Ghost's Instructions) he makes a pile of stupid shit, when Publisher says "we want that YA money for Star Wars" he make a nice enough story about force kids at force school

Definitely agree. He's a middle tier guy.

Tales of the Jedi was more Tom Veitch if I remember correctly.

That being said, Anderson has edited an unfortunate amount of the Tales books.

Its half and half, with Veitch doing the beginning mini in 93 and Anderson teaming up before solo finishing in the excellent Redemption mini.
 
I know that Avellone worked on the story for Fallen Order (which I found fairly lackluster and predictable), but there were other co-writers involved, and pinpointing what exactly were his contributions is rather difficult.

I don't know about Fallen Order, but I was looking forward to his work on Dying Light 2, seeing how the first installment had pretty good gameplay and only really lacked in the storytelling department.

Bloodlines 2, I would've liked to see his take on the medium for as much as it would've been able to shine through the filter of woke garbage peddled by those landwhales Paradox calls a "team". I say this because the game's senior writer is none other than Cara Ellison, a sour Twitter harpy and gaming journo whose one claim to fame is getting triggered over pixelated rape in Hotline Miami 2 and writing an article on PC Gamer that raised enough of a shitstorm to have the game be banned in Australia.

Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number hands-on
By Cara Ellison August 15, 2013

Warning: due to the content of Hotline Miami 2, this preview includes discussion of sexual violence.

Last year, a top-down melee-machine of a game was released: it was neon, vibrating and crushingly violent; you could feel the crunch of your avatar's crowbar up your arms. That blinding flash of an insulin rush – mash every 1980s-styled henchman into a pulp with a selection of throwaway weapons at super-speed. The rhythm of the soundtrack, the tap of the restart button, the puzzle of stealth assassination mixed with your own keen will to clean the room, to the beat. To the beat: that was the beauty of Hotline Miami.

Playing Hotline Miami 2 is darker, murkier, grubbier. The simple elegance is complicated by the pressing of an embroidered narrative into what is an overstitched kill-complex. The environments are more visually detailed, the suits more splattered and the rooms more cluttered. The weapons are slightly more exotic: I picked up a chain at one point, certain of my brutality. But previously, your descent into gangster hell was a little tourniquet holding the levels of Hotline Miami together. Now, it seems like the characters are, in an unwelcome way, attempting to leap from the screen. Different characters take the lead now, each with their own killing style, and first up is Pig Butcher.

Finishing up the tutorial, I'm certain that I'm playing more of the game I like – no – love. I've wiped the place of guys, watched them crawl around hopelessly in their own guts. I get to the final room. There's a girl that it seems germane to hit like the other dudes. 'FINISH HER', the game says: I feel conflicted, but it'll be over soon. I stroll up to finish the job. Instead, the control is taken from me by the game, and my character, the Pig Butcher, pins her down and drops his trousers.

I'm on the show floor at Rezzed 2013. It's a place where I feel welcome, a quiet place where my friends and colleagues chat smiling in low voices, but now a sense of alienation is creeping over me.

I feel resentment. This is what those hordes of gamers who constantly hound the academic Anita Sarkeesian, creator of Tropes vs Women in Video Games barrage her mailbox with. Whelps of wretched stomach lining. This is how they feel when someone points out that games are sexist. 'This is it,' I think. 'I am feeling betrayal. I feel betrayed by something I love. I feel betrayed.'

Stay with me while I dissect these feelings, feelings I do not want: I certainly want someone to blame for this betrayal, because it hurts that something I enjoy so much would be this problematic, so upsetting. I'd like to blame Sarkeesian for making me aware that this happens in the games I like – but it isn't her fault that I am aware. And it starts to make me feel incredibly hypocritical: you liked the violence, I think. You liked, as the game says, hurting people. Why do you feel ugly now, for playing a game where your character rapes a woman? It isn't even graphic, but implied. These are pixels, Cara. Just pixels.

But it's because I identify as a woman. The woman in this game was exoticised by her tokenism. No male character in this scenario was singled out for rape. It has made my safe space – where I am a powerful thug who isn't accountable to anyone – no longer safe. I have been forced to identify with the one person the game has given no agency. My agency has been removed not only from Pig Butcher, but agency was never given to the woman I now identify with – not even AI. Your arsenal has expanded. Hotline Miami manages to convey seediness well in two dimensions. The colour palette's the same, too.

How can you enjoy yourself in a game if you are the victim of every brutal crime, and not the perpetrator of them? A horrible question – but it's about freedom, power, and who gets to have those things. The sexual violence at the end of that tutorial will single out a fifth of the female audience who have experienced sexual violence. I'm thinking about them when I turn back to the game.

Pig Butcher drops his trousers, and the director at the side of the screen yells “cut”. “Pig Man, well done, but don't be afraid to be rougher. And you there, blondie – you need to work on your femininity. Act more helpless and scared. You know, more girly.”

But this framing comes too late. Hotline Miami 2 has already used her for shock and power. Videogame women don't get very many other roles to play but the helpless damsel. I played the rest of the excellently constructed murder simulator demo in silence, and left feeling uncertain of why I was so upset. It was because I was manipulated.

As far as discerning his contributions, given how quick and completely he cucked over to the accusations, I'm not sure Avellone would raise any shit even if the studios ended up using his work after all. Heck, he probably feels it's his duty as a 'straight huwhite male' to pay his dues to oppressed whammyns and minorities.
 
Sad stuff. But I kindof think that's why anyone taking over Lucasfilm isn't going to matter. Anything to come out now will have to be safe and PC to survive.
Pretty much. Even if you were to get Luceno or Zahn at the storytelling helm with Pena as an editor, Disney would still put a whole bunch of moronic restrictions on them and any employees they'd be stuck working with would probably be corrupted as fuck by Twitter or koolaid sipping, so they'll go out to mess them up at every turn or even accuse them of harassment to avoid doing what they want. The media industry is just plain fucked, especially thanks to social media where some random ass hat can get their followers or influential friends to go on a crusade for them to intimidate employees and superiors into bending to their whims. Shit's fucked all around...

In a way, this picture from the Disney's Galaxy's Edge VR game probably sums up the general atmosphere of Lucasfilm in the Current Year.
1596215272062-png.1486277

Notice this bar filled with miserable and angry wretches, all of them are old era aliens/characters just taking whatever they can to go on for another day knowing they can't do much of anything except do what they're told and get drunk, and standing above them superimposed and looking completely out of place is a new era Disney alien/character completely euphoric and overjoyed as he profits off the misery of those old fossils around it, completely satisfied that they are completely under his/her thumb and must submit to his/her/xher demands if they don't want to be expunged. He/She/It now eagerly controls them and their environment as it laughs maliciously as it feeds off their misery and their continued ability to bring in a profit. With this putrid fuck embodying corporate greed and social media pressure. And those poor sobs know they can leave if they want to, but they've wasted so much time there and so much of their identity is tied to that place that they don't even know where else to go anymore.

Anyway, since things have slowed down as of late, should I continue the cosmic shitpost or continue waiting for @Gallofag, @BipolarPon and others to get back from vacation?
 
Damn, never thought Chris Avellone would fall that low. But in retrospect, Obsidian as a whole has fallen pretty low thanks to the Woke virus.

I mean, Star Wars KOTOR 2 had a very neutral view of Star Wars where Avellone bitches at both the Jedi and the Sith, but unlike Karen Traviss, he keeps it grounded and allows the player to stick to the Jedi or Sith paths if they believe they're right. (Also Kreia's line to Mandalore about how the Mandos will wind up being Jedi bait was hilarious foreshadowing and a good gut punch to the Fandalorians crowd.)

Then we had Fallout: New Vegas, which actually gave you a modern democracy, (The New California Republic) a fascist dictatorship, (Caesar's Legion) and a corporate state headed by a businessman, (New Vegas under Robert Edwin House) and allowed you to decide which one of them is the good guy for post-apocalyptic America. They even gave you the chance to overthrow all three and declare yourself the King/Queen of the Mojave if you thought none of them were good enough to gain your vote.

After a few other projects like the South Park game, Pillars of Eternity, Alpha Protocol, and others, which had mixed levels of successes or failures, they went and announced their new project, The Outer Worlds, which they advertised to the world as the new Fallout series, from the guys who made the OG Fallout games and New Vegas. Basically, they were gonna teach those big meanies at Bethesda how to make a REAL Fallout game, especially with how Fallout 4 has now fallen under scrutiny and Fallout 76 has flopped like a fish out of water.

Then the game came out, and to describe it as a woke tire fire is only scratching at the surface.

The whole plot is basically how how capitalism is evil, how the people it empowers are the lowest of scum, and how a state run by corporations just ends with people ignoring real science and not even doing good at maintaining society. Which is rich considering that in Fallout New Vegas, the eponymous city of New Vegas was the Fallout world's version of Nar Shaddaa, run by a businessman named Robert Edwin House and his hired thugs, and it was the most functional state in the entire game world, where their science and technology being far more powerful than any other faction, and their society is far better than every other faction in the game. In KOTOR 2, the droid businessman/mafia kingpin known as Goto actually wants to help revive the Republic and uses his illegal contacts and wealth to support the weakening Republic to prevent it from falling apart. Now Obsidian pulls such a massive about-face, from New Vegas showing us how a state run by a businessman can be a good, reasonable middle ground between a dysfunctional democracy like the NCR and the fascist brutality of Caesar's Legion, to the Outer Worlds showing us that letting businessmen run the world will end in the kind of dystopia that makes Feudalism preferable.

I'm not against stories where corporations are evil. Hell, I loved SW: The Phantom Menace, and the main bad guys there were the Trade Federation. I also loved Attack of the Clones and the Clone Wars multimedia project where the Confederate bad guys are led by war-profiteering business conglomerates. But the corporate villains of Outer Worlds make the Trade Federation and the Confederacy of Independent Systems look like Mother Teresa in comparison. Say what you will about the Trade Federation, but at least the mundane tasks and life-threatening jobs they have are handled by robots, while most of their biological workers are far away from danger, while the Geonosian workers of the CIS don't look like they're being mistreated by their leaders. in fact, given how loyal Geonosians were to the CIS, it seems that Dooku and the other CIS bosses were real good to them.

Whereas the companies that work under the Halcyon Holdings Corporate Board in Outer Worlds treat their own workers like crap to the point where they start killing themselves-and the companies' response is to charge a fine against the dead worker's closest associate. That, and one of their colonies has workers falling sick due to the humans there eating nothing but canned tuna. In a universe where humans are capable of FTL travel and terraforming, they couldn't figure out that an unbalanced diet consisting of canned tuna and ONLY canned tuna would get them sick. There's satirizing corporate states, then there's this nonsense. Oh, and the corporations are so evil that they openly created a lottery where the winners are supposedly given a lifetime retirement where everything is paid for them, they get nice homes and everything, only for none of that to be real and the "winners" are just gunned down in some dingy broom closet by robots who clean up the bodies afterwards, just to "control the population". The corporations advertise life on the frontier to get more workers, and when they don't want to feed them, they make them win a lottery where the winners get shot and disposed of. Meanwhile, the sons and daughters of corporate heads and wealthy citizens aren't even smart, most of them are rich twats who lord over others with their wealth and act like buffoons.

There's also a plot line about how the people who live within the corporate system can't get shit done even if their lives depended upon it, with them being unable to grow good food or be able to thaw people out of cryogenic freezing, despite the fact that their master plan is to save resources by freezing most of the colonists. Whereas some random rebels managed to grow good food from farms properly and some anti-corporate scientist has no problem thawing your character from being frozen. Basically, corporations aren't only evil, but massively stupid, too. They're worse than Somali warlords, they suck at science, and they're all selfish entitled twats. While that's a plot more befitting for a game set in the Industrial Era, it was a massive step backwards from Fallout New Vegas, where despite the fact that Robert Edwin House is a tyrant, as a businessman, he still retains a sense of cold logic, he's still a smart man of both business and science, and he can still run a city in a civilized manner, since his main goal is profit and prosperity, not pointless death and suffering.

Basically, their message was that capitalism running things isn't only wrong, it's stupid. Despite the fact that their most celebrated games showed the exact opposite, with Goto being a corrupt businessman who still cared about order enough to try and save the galaxy, while Robert Edwin House from New Vegas showed how much good a capitalist can do for society at large, from saving a city from getting nuked to rebuilding civilization with a handful of robots and some tribes he recruited. In KOTOR 2 and New Vegas, businessmen aren't saints, but they still cared enough about society and order to the point where they would still do good for the world just so they can have people to sell things to. In Outer Worlds, businessmen might as well be uncaring devils who play with people's lives to the point where they make the standard evil space corporations like the Trade Federation look saintly in comparison. The fact that Obsidian's newest game has the exact opposite message as their most celebrated games goes to show how far they've fallen, and how their new woke attitude runs counter to what they showed in previous games. I'm okay with corporate tyrants being the baddies, it's been done before, but the way Outer Worlds does it, it goes way too far, down to the point where they're not only evil, but stupid, something only an SJW can say without looking at both the bad and the good that capitalism has brought us.

If Avellone was already leaning to the left before leaving Obsidian, the rest of Obsidian leaned farther to the left. It seems that the kind of woke mentality that led to Avellone bowing out was also gaining power on Obsidian for quite some time after Fallout New Vegas, the last game where they portrayed a capitalist as somewhat good. But then again, the same thing happened to Bioware and Blizzard. Obsidian seems to have joined the vanguard of video game giants who became woke and suffered for it. Especially since now, people are realizing how shallow Outer Worlds is, and how its plot is basically screaming "capitalism is evil" for 20-something hours.
 
Last edited:
Back